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Author Topic: Ok so we're clear on a few things  (Read 2711 times)

Nathan

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2012, 03:36:53 pm »

If it's the latter then it is accepted. However, it's up to the 'Kage. If the 'Kage says no then you cannot do it.

Bocchiere

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2012, 06:35:46 pm »

If it's the latter then it is accepted. However, it's up to the 'Kage. If the 'Kage says no then you cannot do it.

Well the kage wasn't there till long after it was done. Seno and Kay accepted it.
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Nathan

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2012, 01:30:16 am »

If it's the latter then it is accepted. However, it's up to the 'Kage. If the 'Kage says no then you cannot do it.

Well the kage wasn't there till long after it was done. Seno and Kay accepted it.

In your case it doesn't matter what you do because every one is dead. If you wanted to make a barrier that spit confetti at people then you could because, whilst you're officially Tsuchikage, every one else is dead so no body can say any thing about it.

Bocchiere

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2012, 08:30:11 pm »

If it's the latter then it is accepted. However, it's up to the 'Kage. If the 'Kage says no then you cannot do it.

Well the kage wasn't there till long after it was done. Seno and Kay accepted it.

In your case it doesn't matter what you do because every one is dead. If you wanted to make a barrier that spit confetti at people then you could because, whilst you're officially Tsuchikage, every one else is dead so no body can say any thing about it.

That's kinda been my logic from the get go. >> Oh I'm not Tsuchikage? Sorry I can't hear you on top of my mountain of Iwa nin corpses.
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Eric

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 01:50:35 pm »

I always thought that you could set up a defensive barrier for the village presuming you have the force to maintain it. If the Kage of the village, however, decides he/she doesn't want it up, then they have the authority to tell you to put it down and possibly punish you if you didn't get their permission. So I thought anyone with the force had the capability, though authority and chain of command are a question for the Kage and the barrier setter-upers.

Kages go inactive. Villages still need defenses. Permission strictly from the Kage to set it up shouldn't be a requirement to set it up in the first place if its some of the citizens are trying to defend their village.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2012, 03:58:18 pm »

The question, if I am reading this correctly, was who should have the right to do such a thing that effects the RP of so very many people.

Some random dude who just decides he is going to set RP for the site? OR someone whom the villagers of that area have elected to be the head of defense for their village?

This is not a matter of who has the power to perform such a deed, but who has the right to make a broad sweeping RP decision for the whole site.

It should be the Kage of the village and the council of the village working together to decide what the major fortifications of a certain village will be. Then these need to be clarified so that whom so ever is online at the time such fortifications need to be used know how in the world to do it.

These are things that can create a wealth of RP opportunities for our members. Having council meetings to create defenses. Having the actual fortifications worked on and erected. Training the village members in their usages. Having drills to work out the kinks and prepare for battle...and so forth. Giving a village time to RP these events creates activity and interest in RP and only benefits us all. You do not coordinate a major war event and it just turns into a huge cluster that does nothing but to deter activity and turn people off to the notion of participation.

And what about the invading forces? What ever happened to an 'evil' group rping their growth and development and then joining together  to put their plans into action? How much fun is it to just be one guy rping alone on his side playing the part of everyone on the offensive? This sort of thing only serves to deprive SL of RP opportunities and story line growth.

Bocc misrepresents what went down in Iwa when he said Seno and Kay approved it. Seno may have, I objected tooth and nail to the whole invasion thing even before it got started. You have an event like this going on, one guy who is there at the time responds because he wants to RP and then everyone is locked into it as the legit story line for the whole site. It is my position that such expansive events should be coordinated because it is NOT a personal RP that only effects those in attendance but ALL of SL.

IF you will note the thread where and when I opened discussion for planned War Events? I knew that since Iwa was now an accessible RP village board that it would be attacked before it had time to establish what the other villages have had years to do. RP defenses and Mode of operations in the event of an invading foe. This was of concern because it had only a minor clan to represent an entire nation. Given TIME for people to DK and choose Iwa as their home country and allow them to grow a population and establish a legitimately strong village, in other words a fighting chance to even exist, things could have progressed through RP in a legitimate fashion. Kumo was not of concern because it had a large and active clan that had established fortification and an actual player population to work with.

But this was ignored.

During the invasion by Bocc, I was left to activate the defenses being fed information during the event by a Kage who was stuck in the shades and logging off every 5 or ten minutes. I objected to the event continuing in light of this lack of information on how to properly use the village defenses and that too was ignored.

After it was established, through the creation of a wiki profile page for Iwa just what the village defenses were to be, those were ignored as well. During the event that the barrier was breached, which had to be performed simultaneously at each of the seals...hidden locations...clones of the warriors who performed this deed were to appear and attack. This was never activated or used either. Ineptitude all over because it was not a coordinated event that would allow the village to respond as a GREAT NATION but rather a personal zone fight that locked all of the site into the results.

After who knows how long, many deaths of the Key village positions, and claims that all Iwa warriors were defeated....an impossibility as I have discussed numerous times...such things are not feasible if you only have 2-3 people RPing....An inactive Tshuchikage comes back, Stark, and names Bocc the legit Godaime in an OOC fashion making all argument moot.

My main complaint about the Iwa event was that now that it was open to also be one of the RPable Great Nations of the site, it was not given time to become that before it was destroyed. How can someone claim to conquer a Great Nation when there are only 3-4 people playing there? Why have a board at all to represent a Great Nation if you are just going to extinguish it before it has time to grow? Such could have been done to a clan and saved the coders all that work in creating the place to begin with.

Now...let me say it again. This thread is not about who has the power to do what, but who SHOULD be permitted to make broad story line decision that effect the whole site.

Are we ever going to deal with that issue in a constructive manner or are we just going to permit whoever hits the hardest, and trolls the longest,  to decide how things are going to be for everyone?

I should also like to note: This event is over. The things that were done improperly are there and at this time it is too huge a problem to just undo everything and start over. This sort of things should not be permitted to occur in the future. Nothing can be done about correcting what has already been done and we need to move forward from here as the situation stands. But for the future...I feel that this sort of thing must not be allowed to pass ever again.



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Bocchiere

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2012, 08:10:32 pm »

I'm sorry I fixed Iwa, I swear I'll never do it again. D:
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Eric

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2012, 11:50:34 pm »

 If "should" is the proposal? Well, in that case, let's pop on the somewhat long explanation, background if we may, on the situation in Iwa according to your post. I'm not going to regurgitate it here cause a summary might detract from your meaning.

The Tsuchikage of the time (don't kill me for spelling errors x)) was doing a poor job at trying to maintain the defenses of the village by relaying it to a defender. For obvious reasons, with lack of information on Iwa defenses, the defenders had to fight with what they had, which apparently was not enough to stop Bocc in the end.

Creating defenses mostly, in this current age and time from my experience, primarily deters attackers to begin with, unless (forgive me if you're insulted) you happen to live in Sunagakure or Iwagakure. Kumo's village didn't even spawn in SL until the same time (appx) that Iwa's became very much accessible. It isn't Bocc's fault that the Kage was unable to properly perform the defense of his own village during the relaying of what defenses the village had to one of the key defenders.

Kumo, to be honest, almost spawned outta nowhere for me, since I hadn't expected it to grow so much. But so relative little is known about Iwagakure compared to even Kirigakure and Kumogakure. They had about the same amount of time as Kumo to get their crap together. In the end, the stone just didn't appeal to enough people to make it strong enough to repel Bocc.

In such an instance, the defenders themselves could have merely claimed the creation of defenses that apparently were not completely outlined on a wiki page prior to the start of the conflict, and thus got creative to counter the threat as a group. However, since the Kage and a council are the only ones, in a sense, who have that authority, they were left throwing stones at Tiger II tanks. As you can imagine, unless you hit it just right, you might as well try to make the rocks jammers for the tracks. (probably an exxageration on my part, but it makes the picture clear for those of you who get it)

Bottom line is, especially with the Iwa incident, anyone should have the authority, right even, to set up barriers to defend their village. The maintaining and keeping of the barrier then would be at the discretion of the parties and powers to be. Not every Kage or Council leader can be on conveniently when the attacks happen (sometimes coincidence: other times, I think not) and orchestrate defense activation or creation at the last second. 

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Bocchiere

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2012, 12:42:35 am »

Yeah Eric pretty much got it spot on.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2012, 03:54:15 am »

He does make some good points.

However, while those key people are not online, if the RP opportunity has been taken advantage of and the warriors of the village instructed and trained on how to use these defenses, then any villager can use them efficiently.

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Eric

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2012, 01:28:31 am »

"use" is different than "make". An inactive leader is about as useful as an academy student claiming Rinnegan from day 5 of their playing of SL. The properly traing shinobi of sorts should be able to both use and make barriers when the need arises.
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Thecurse

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Re: Ok so we're clear on a few things
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2012, 09:15:43 am »

"use" is different than "make". An inactive leader is about as useful as an academy student claiming Rinnegan from day 5 of their playing of SL. The properly traing shinobi of sorts should be able to both use and make barriers when the need arises.
Agreed.
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