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Author Topic: Hyuuga Reset Revamp  (Read 3422 times)

Old Man Xia

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Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« on: January 27, 2013, 04:27:06 pm »

Posting for a friend

As the name suggests I'm here to talk about the imbalance of the Byakugan versus it's 'equal' reset, the Sharingan. I believe it is known in the SL community that the Byakugan as an in-game reset (we are not talking about RP here) is severely weaker than it's counterpart.

This oversight has gone on for a long while for reasons we're not here to speculate about, but it's time we finally did something to even out the two and perhaps boost the number of varying reset types we have here on SL.

The problems with the Byakugan start with the fact that it's buff is not infinite. It's buff is comparable to the Sharingan when it is on (I am not sure about this, but it seems that way from simple observation) but the problem is that it runs out! The sharingan gets a SIMILAR buff INDEFINITELY, which vastly puts it ahead of the Byakugan at this early stage of analysis.

Now the next thing we have here, is the matter of it's Jutsu. They are cheap, at 1 chakra point each BUT they are not as strong as advertised by the reset system. These jutsu are supposed to be stronger than the chakra types you can pick from normal leveling and stat distribution as it's stated in the reset description. But nearing the 50+ DK range, Kaiten stops doing similar damage as Hyouton does, even if the rounds are longer. The longer rounds do not completely make up for the lack of strength, because as this has happened on a GM Hyuuga you still get hit often while Kaiten is active because the Byakugan turns often run out.

And another main issue I would like to present here is that the Hyuuga leveling style when done at it's best is extremely chakra point reliant, and quick leveling cannot be done until 3-4th reset where it still falls short of the Sharingan at 2 resets constant buff.

The fix: Now that I have gotten the reasoning for this out of the way, let's get down to the proposed fix. This is up for evaluation and others may put their LOGICAL input in. (I'd like to keep from personal opinions like "Byakugan is weaker than Sharingan in manga so deal with it" as this is about game balance, not Manga accuracy as the in-game resets should be)

I propose that we have the Byakugan have a constant buff of equal strength to the sharingans without the need to constantly re-activate it over and over. This will close the gap between the two resets, it's really that simple.

We take away the chakra point reliance that the Byakugan suffers from. This will also give people a viable second option for resets in the dojutsu category.

Now we have the issue of "well if the Byakugan is constantly active, you can just spam Kaiten!" This would be true! But I am also proposing that we chakra how those jutsu work a bit to once again work more like the sharingan resets (because let's be honest the sharingan resets WORK, thus why so many people choose it).

Kaiten would work similarly to Tsukiyomi, but with a higher chakra cost (because the Byakugan has no Mangekyou form to activate and use chakra on)

And Hakke Rokujyuyonsho would take the place of Amaterasu with high burst damage but no lasting turns. Again at an increased chakra cost in comparison.

As for Jyuken, I am not certain what to do with this. And am open to suggestions as I am for this entire post.

The goal here is to get this imbalance in the system worked out between the two resets. I know there are other people who feel the same, but not many who have spoken up about it for some reason or another. So let's see if we can get Neji to work on this!
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Old Man Xia

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 05:03:51 pm »

Replying to what he/she thinks should be fixed, I don't like the idea of boosting the chakra required to use it as it is lower than Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu for a reason, but I do feel strongly about the strength of Kaiton's power stopping like Hyouton does around 50+ DKs. I have both a Grand Master Uchiha and Hyuuga, and Uchiha with the constant buff proves to be a more reliable choice than Hyuuga by far.
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Raifudo Oppa

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 07:59:24 pm »

*Its; possessive. It was bugging me.

Quote
As the name suggests I'm here to talk about the imbalance of the Byakugan versus it's 'equal' reset, the Sharingan. I believe it is known in the SL community that the Byakugan as an in-game reset (we are not talking about RP here) is severely weaker than it's counterpart.

It's not "equal." No KG of the same tree play the same. They have similar mechanics, sure, but they're never "equal."

Hyuuga need to raise their attack through academy training. Sharingan doesn't.
Hyuuga is a burst-based reset. Sharingan is more of a steadily-paced one with more utility.

Hachimon is mostly a buff/survival reset; each gate either raises your stats or heals you.
Kaguya is mostly a buff/attack reset; each move offers an attack that raises defensive or offensive capabilities.

Hyouton is more of an offensive reset.
Senju is more of a defensive reset.

Rinnegan is more of a Jack of all trades reset.
Sage Mode is more of a heavy-hitters/nuke'm reset.

They play differently and SHOULD play differently as that's the point of having options. There is no need to have options if they offer the same exact abilities.

Also, you should remember that, like every reset, attacks scale based on resets and dragon kills. Much like a 2-reset Uchiha has trouble with using Tsukiyomi to one-shot everything (unlike its 3rd and 4th-reset counterpart), a Hyuuga will have trouble one-shot'ting everything until more resets/kills are introduced.

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This oversight has gone on for a long while for reasons we're not here to speculate about, but it's time we finally did something to even out the two and perhaps boost the number of varying reset types we have here on SL.

1. We're aware of the reasons. They're not supposed to play the same.
2. We have 8 total resets right now with the ability to generate, at least, 16 different possibilities of reset combinations.

Quote
The problems with the Byakugan start with the fact that it's buff is not infinite. It's buff is comparable to the Sharingan when it is on (I am not sure about this, but it seems that way from simple observation) but the problem is that it runs out! The sharingan gets a SIMILAR buff INDEFINITELY, which vastly puts it ahead of the Byakugan at this early stage of analysis.

How is it a problem if its buff is not infinite? You can't call it a problem if that's how it was meant to work. Needless to say, we've yet to see a Hyuuga with the ability (or need) to keep their Byakugan active at all times (unlike their sharingan counterpart).

From the Wiki:
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So, in the game a Byakugan User decreases the enemy attack and defense while Byakugan is active, so not as much as a Sharingan would.
Also, the activation costs more chakra and is limited as it drains forth chakra.

-http://wiki.shinobilegends.com/index.php/Kekkei_Genkai:_Hyuuga

Quote
Now the next thing we have here, is the matter of it's Jutsu. They are cheap, at 1 chakra point each BUT they are not as strong as advertised by the reset system. These jutsu are supposed to be stronger than the chakra types you can pick from normal leveling and stat distribution as it's stated in the reset description. But nearing the 50+ DK range, Kaiten stops doing similar damage as Hyouton does, even if the rounds are longer. The longer rounds do not completely make up for the lack of strength, because as this has happened on a GM Hyuuga you still get hit often while Kaiten is active because the Byakugan turns often run out.

Y'know, Kaiten does something Tsubame Fubuki doesn't (assuming you're using the 3-chakra attack in comparison to the Kaiten), and that's hit more than 2-5 (I forgot which number it is) enemies at once.

Either way, if you take into account that Kaiten(2) lasts 9 (plus 1 initial) rounds and hits 2-5 enemies in the 50dk+ range and compare that to the Tsubame Fubuki(3) that lasts 3-4 (plus 1 initial) rounds, you're looking at a comparable amount of damage done as opposed to damage per turn. Needless to say, you're looking at a third of the chakra normally needed with Hyouton.

I can see where the wiki could be misleading in some ways:

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Specialty "Hyuuga Techniques" is available. This one is stronger than a normal jutsu set.

-http://wiki.shinobilegends.com/index.php/Kekkei_Genkai:_Hyuuga

The "normal jutsu set" could be misleading and they could mean things that don't require stat-distribution (Gen/Tai).

Quote
And another main issue I would like to present here is that the Hyuuga leveling style when done at it's best is extremely chakra point reliant, and quick leveling cannot be done until 3-4th reset where it still falls short of the Sharingan at 2 resets constant buff.

The reset is always chakra-point reliant. In higher levels, it just manages to give you more bang for your buck.

Quote
The fix: Now that I have gotten the reasoning for this out of the way, let's get down to the proposed fix. This is up for evaluation and others may put their LOGICAL input in. (I'd like to keep from personal opinions like "Byakugan is weaker than Sharingan in manga so deal with it" as this is about game balance, not Manga accuracy as the in-game resets should be)

I propose that we have the Byakugan have a constant buff of equal strength to the sharingans without the need to constantly re-activate it over and over. This will close the gap between the two resets, it's really that simple.

No, it's not that simple. Now you have to nerf the abilities because of their low chakra need and their strong burst + round count.

If you want to propose this, you realize you'll have to make the same change for Rinnegan also? Rinnegan has a constant buff that works similar to sharingan and byakugan also. Going to have to give sage mode a constant buff instead of their high round count.

Quote
We take away the chakra point reliance that the Byakugan suffers from. This will also give people a viable second option for resets in the dojutsu category.

So, in other words, you're saying to take out Hyuuga, implement sharingan a second time and rename it "Hyuuga." The only way to balance the two is to make them identical in all mechanics except the jutsu they offer.

Quote
Now we have the issue of "well if the Byakugan is constantly active, you can just spam Kaiten!" This would be true! But I am also proposing that we chakra how those jutsu work a bit to once again work more like the sharingan resets (because let's be honest the sharingan resets WORK, thus why so many people choose it).

No, they choose it because it's the easy route. I can just as easily get 3 kills a regular day with a byakugan as I can a sharingan. Byakugan just takes more effort and careful planning/sacrifice.

Quote
Kaiten would work similarly to Tsukiyomi, but with a higher chakra cost (because the Byakugan has no Mangekyou form to activate and use chakra on)

And Hakke Rokujyuyonsho would take the place of Amaterasu with high burst damage but no lasting turns. Again at an increased chakra cost in comparison.

As for Jyuken, I am not certain what to do with this. And am open to suggestions as I am for this entire post.

"Make Tsukiyomi tsukiyomi, change amaterasu to amaterasu, and make x another x."

Quote
The goal here is to get this imbalance in the system worked out between the two resets. I know there are other people who feel the same, but not many who have spoken up about it for some reason or another. So let's see if we can get Neji to work on this!

Because many understand the differences they each offer and how much their play style differs.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:00:33 pm by Raifudo, the Raifudo »
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sploofmoof

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 08:35:00 pm »

I agree with this whole heartedly.  The Byakugan is too much weaker than the Sharingan to promote anyone to actually pick it.  The only ones even capable of leveling as fast as the sharingan are people will MAX resets in the Byakugan and even then, the smallest thing screws up their leveling that doesn't even hinder the Sharingan


Generally what I get from Raifudo's post is that he believes they are supposed to be different, but they aren't just DIFFERENT.  If you're honestly saying that the Byakugan is capable of leveling as fast as the Sharingan, then you're absolutely crazy.  It can get similar results of one gameday kills when it has 3-4 resets.  The sharingan can do it earlier, and BETTER.  And after 50+ the Byakugans leveling just plummets as Kaiten starts to weaken against creatures.  At higher kills, when closer to 100 and above it won't even be usable at it's rate of deteriorating use.

Now, Raifudo I did notice you mention other resets.  But let's be honest, the only LEVELING resets are Dojutsu category and Sage arts category.  The others are mainly for RP claims.  The other resets have minor boosts to leveling at best in comparison. 

But it is true that the Byakugan even with it's different playstyle is just too much weaker than the sharingan as it is now.  So if you want to say the two should play differently, then why don't you suggest a way to do that and have the Byakugan actually be as useful as the Sharingan and post some actual constructive criticism.

The difference between sharingan -byakugan and Sage mode- Rinnegan.  Is that they both are equal in power even in their playstyle differences.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:42:06 pm by sploofmoof »
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Old Man Xia

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 10:23:52 pm »

Quote
Now we have the issue of "well if the Byakugan is constantly active, you can just spam Kaiten!" This would be true! But I am also proposing that we chakra how those jutsu work a bit to once again work more like the sharingan resets (because let's be honest the sharingan resets WORK, thus why so many people choose it).

No, they choose it because it's the easy route. I can just as easily get 3 kills a regular day with a byakugan as I can a sharingan. Byakugan just takes more effort and careful planning/sacrifice.

This is true, and yet with my Hyuuga almost being maxed in Sennin Modo, I spam Kaiten as much as I can just to get a kill, possibly ress myself if needed. It is difficult for a Hyuuga, but careful planning takes its toll if you know what to do as Rai has said, but I get countless kills now because the extra boost helps with Sage mode.
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Raifudo Oppa

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 01:04:09 am »

Quote
I agree with this whole heartedly.  The Byakugan is too much weaker than the Sharingan to promote anyone to actually pick it.  The only ones even capable of leveling as fast as the sharingan are people will MAX resets in the Byakugan and even then, the smallest thing screws up their leveling that doesn't even hinder the Sharingan

Y'know, there are people out there who can barely get a kill a day with the sharingan? Same goes with byakugan. Some people can only get a kill a day. Some people can get 3+ a day. This is excluding any other reset except those just mentioned.

Quote
Generally what I get from Raifudo's post is that he believes they are supposed to be different, but they aren't just DIFFERENT.  If you're honestly saying that the Byakugan is capable of leveling as fast as the Sharingan, then you're absolutely crazy.  It can get similar results of one gameday kills when it has 3-4 resets.  The sharingan can do it earlier, and BETTER.  And after 50+ the Byakugans leveling just plummets as Kaiten starts to weaken against creatures.  At higher kills, when closer to 100 and above it won't even be usable at it's rate of deteriorating use.

I didn't say it's capable of leveling as fast as the sharingan; I wouldn't know unless I can register every mechanic and apply it. I said I can get 3 kills a day with JUST the byakugan with 1-2 resets. It just takes longer.

Quote
Now, Raifudo I did notice you mention other resets.  But let's be honest, the only LEVELING resets are Dojutsu category and Sage arts category.  The others are mainly for RP claims.  The other resets have minor boosts to leveling at best in comparison. 

So, now you're saying only byakugan should be boosted because it should be comparable to the sharingan because they're in the same category? Well, you invest in other KGs too. Why cherry pick just the byakugan? As it is, other categories, like you said, only serve as minor boosts and RP claims. Why not see the byakugan like that? It already functions like kaguya and hachimon anyways.

Quote
But it is true that the Byakugan even with it's different playstyle is just too much weaker than the sharingan as it is now.  So if you want to say the two should play differently, then why don't you suggest a way to do that and have the Byakugan actually be as useful as the Sharingan and post some actual constructive criticism.

Suggest a way to play differently? How am I supposed to do that when they already play differently? Just play the reset. Conserve your chakra, learn how different shops around the villages affect you, etc.

Quote
The difference between sharingan -byakugan and Sage mode- Rinnegan.  Is that they both are equal in power even in their playstyle differences.

Equal in power? Are they? I can definitely register how sage mode is much more powerful than the rinnegan.

For instance, recalling correctly, Sage Mode's buff is usable in PvP.
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sploofmoof

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 01:34:28 am »

Yes.  Some people barely level with the Sharingan, but that's rarely because they CAN'T.  It is more likely that their stat distribution and forest fights are just out of whack than the actual reset keeping them from leveling quickly.

So you're saying that it's okay that one reset is generally weaker than another in the same category?  Maybe not everyone believes that they should be equal, but what sort of game balance is that? 

And as well, the thread is focusing on one balance issue.  The thread would get entirely too out of control if we talked about EVERYTHING in SL that needed to be balanced out accordingly wouldn't it?  And it would be fine if the Byakugan was as powerful as Hachimon/Kaguya IF it was in the same category of resets.  This game is pigeonholing us into picking the Sharingan because it's completely superior.  And in a game where the community has decided that resets in game = power, this is a problem.

I meant you should suggest a way that they can play differently and still level as effectively as one another.  And you're right, the Sage mode has some marked advantages over the Rinnegan, but the Rinnegan has advantages over the Sage mode.  Example, at academy student, you can still summon the infamous three headed dog and leveling is a breeze, but at lower levels Sage mode isn't going to work AS WELL (it works, but it's just not as effective).  They each have their strengths, but they balance out with each other in the end.  And what is going on here is that the Sharingan and Byakugan do not balance out in the end.

And we have to keep in mind that this is a game, and games need balancing.  Right now we have a massive population of Sharingan users, and some of that may be chalked up due to it's popularity in the series and with fans.  But given how many people have alts we should be seeing more variation in the resets.  Right now the only variation we DON'T have is in dojutsu resets.  People pick Mokuton over Hyouton because of it's popularity/RP power.  Taijutsu are even and done on preference.  Rinnegan is picked a bit more due to it's popularity as well but it's overall balance is okay with Sage mode.  But Sharingan and Byakugan? Staggering difference (which I know some of it comes from the Sharingans popularity) with NO incentive to make a Hyuuga character because no one wants to sit through the incredibly laborious leveling process when sharingan is available.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 01:36:17 am by sploofmoof »
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Raifudo Oppa

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 04:11:42 am »

Quote
Yes.  Some people barely level with the Sharingan, but that's rarely because they CAN'T.  It is more likely that their stat distribution and forest fights are just out of whack than the actual reset keeping them from leveling quickly.

Consider that argument for byakugan now.

Quote
So you're saying that it's okay that one reset is generally weaker than another in the same category?  Maybe not everyone believes that they should be equal, but what sort of game balance is that? 

No, I'm saying it's okay that a play style of one reset is completely different from the other.

Quote
And as well, the thread is focusing on one balance issue.  The thread would get entirely too out of control if we talked about EVERYTHING in SL that needed to be balanced out accordingly wouldn't it?  And it would be fine if the Byakugan was as powerful as Hachimon/Kaguya IF it was in the same category of resets.  This game is pigeonholing us into picking the Sharingan because it's completely superior.  And in a game where the community has decided that resets in game = power, this is a problem.

I meant you should suggest a way that they can play differently and still level as effectively as one another.  And you're right, the Sage mode has some marked advantages over the Rinnegan, but the Rinnegan has advantages over the Sage mode.  Example, at academy student, you can still summon the infamous three headed dog and leveling is a breeze, but at lower levels Sage mode isn't going to work AS WELL (it works, but it's just not as effective).  They each have their strengths, but they balance out with each other in the end.  And what is going on here is that the Sharingan and Byakugan do not balance out in the end.

And we have to keep in mind that this is a game, and games need balancing.  Right now we have a massive population of Sharingan users, and some of that may be chalked up due to it's popularity in the series and with fans.  But given how many people have alts we should be seeing more variation in the resets.  Right now the only variation we DON'T have is in dojutsu resets.  People pick Mokuton over Hyouton because of it's popularity/RP power.  Taijutsu are even and done on preference.  Rinnegan is picked a bit more due to it's popularity as well but it's overall balance is okay with Sage mode.  But Sharingan and Byakugan? Staggering difference (which I know some of it comes from the Sharingans popularity) with NO incentive to make a Hyuuga character because no one wants to sit through the incredibly laborious leveling process when sharingan is available.

Well, let's rework the chakra use then. Let's make the hyuuga jutsu cost no chakra but byakugan cost 2 points still. Maybe increase the rounds from 9 to 15.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 04:15:28 am by Raifudo, the Raifudo »
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sploofmoof

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2013, 05:18:32 am »

That argument doesn't work for the byakugan now because it isn't a lack of knowledge that keeps people from leveling well, it's the resets themselves.  There are more issues to address than just extending the rounds that byakugan lasts for. 

Kaiten doesn't scale well against enemies past 50 DK's and up.
Without some sort of buff to our stats or debuff to forest creatures we get hit entirely more often than Sharingan users even WITH Kaiten active.

We need more than just a chakra point rework.  We need a general buff to the reset.  Neji has tried doing a minor buff to the rounds that byakugan lasts, and the impact it had was good but overall lackluster.  We're using the Byakugan to activate a jutsu that's power just isn't going to scale all too well. 

I DO think that Byakugan should stay active indefinitely as the Sharingan does.  Or even if it doesn't, we just get some sort of persistent buff like the Sharingan gives.  Perhaps a buff for being born into the Hyuuga lineage that we can say comes from extensive training to hone one's taijutsu/whatnot.  Sort of an automatic buff like the Rinnegan.

But as it is, a buff you have to spend chakra points continuously should either be VERY strong ( an example would be sage mode, but I'm not saying we should copy that entirely) and not like the Byakugan is at all right now.  (which is just something we activate so we can use Kaiten, which then later fails us at higher levels)
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2013, 08:39:08 am »

I like the idea of Byakugan staying active indefinitely like Sharingan does. But after that I do not have much of an opinion to IF it even should be altered more than that.

I like the notion that each KG gives different buffs and acts differently. Kind of a left hand rout and a right hand route as the Kaguya and Gates are. But I would have to agree that with these doujutsu we do not have a left and right hand route...more like level ground and a mountain range.

As for Resets in RP...I have always hated ingame abilities being used for RP. I believe that RP powers should be earned through RP. These are two separate factions in my mind about the whole SL experience. The game mechanics for leveling and the RP storyline and character building.

I don't see why one should depend upon the other. It certainly doesn't go both ways back and forth!

but that is another topic and not the one at hand.

I don't want these to be equal though in all but name. What is the point of that?

the buffs should effect the game mechanics differently. But perhaps in a more evenly dispersed manner. What that might be?

Don't look at me! I haven't the faintest idea.
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Mihazi

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2013, 08:42:32 am »

Leveling speed has a lot to do about game knowledge and simply endurance, but having the best build makes it effortless.
By picking Byakugan instead of Sharingan, you've gimped yourself.

Don't have to make Byakugan a permanent buff, but it would be very welcomed even if it rids a "different" play style as it would instantly boost Hyuuga. If you go that route, you'd either increase the chakra cost of the Hyuuga jutsus or nerf jutsu damage.
But instead I suggest Kaiten's damage to be buffed so it's not useless at higher DKs unless Hyuugas are meant to rely on Rinnegan/Sage Mode.

Extra information:
I had picked Hachimon, but later found out that there was a Hyuuga/Kaguya exclusive jutsu, so I told Neji this and he added a Hyuuga/Hachimon exclusive jutsu.

Edit:
It's nice that Byakugan did get boosted to lasting 20 rounds from 10 rounds, but it has little effect for those who know how to properly use Byakugan/Kaiten.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 10:01:10 am by Mihazi »
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Kage

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2013, 06:06:10 pm »

Here's my two cents on what is needed.

1. Make the Byakugan last longer, as in, somewhere around 60 rounds.
2. Kaiten needs a bit of a power boost. Mostly in the aspect that it needs to keep becoming stronger even after that 50 oro kill line.
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Ratatosk

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 12:42:45 am »

I agree the Hyuuga should have some change to it but still keep it unique in it's own way.

I personally think this how the turn spread should look, it is unique and it will give people working on it something to work for. Please note this is my view since I did own a Hyuuga at one point in time before the buff went to 20 turns.

20 Turns for Initiate
30 Turns for Honored
40 Turns for Master
50 Turns  for Grand Master

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Zenaku

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 07:17:39 pm »

This is all rather entertaining but Neji has already spoken on this topic extensively and even after that he's not only boosted Hyuuga's turns but to be fair also nerfed sharingan's debuff in an effort to balance things out a bit more. There can be changes made to all KG's but are they going to be made reality? Probably not. Will Mokuton get an actual attack or will Kaguya become more chakra effective? Probably not. But nice ideas all the same  8)
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Zenaku is a Godaime Raikage
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sploofmoof

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Re: Hyuuga Reset Revamp
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 09:03:41 pm »

This is all rather entertaining but Neji has already spoken on this topic extensively and even after that he's not only boosted Hyuuga's turns but to be fair also nerfed sharingan's debuff in an effort to balance things out a bit more. There can be changes made to all KG's but are they going to be made reality? Probably not. Will Mokuton get an actual attack or will Kaguya become more chakra effective? Probably not. But nice ideas all the same  8)

Yes well, this is in an effort to get Neji to rethink that.  Because even if people may disagree with a few of the overhaul ideas, it seems that most people are in agreeance that the Hyuugas still need a buff. 

Neji generally listens to the community if there is enough push behind it, the problem is just getting it going.
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