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Author Topic: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)  (Read 13324 times)

Ѕhadow

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2015, 03:27:53 AM »

So what happens when all these 'owners' of techniques up and leave the site? Does that mean that the skills are just floating around in cyber-space out of everybody's reach? Where's the fun in that when you try to do something and someone you've never met before says 'nuh-uh! No stealsies'. Just let people learn the skills they want to learn through RP if they want. As long as they're not doing that lonely thing and making post after post after post just with themselves, it should be fine if they come up with or discover a way to use a jutsu. Just do it with a friend. Or a stranger, turn them into a friend.

Custom techs that they made would be out of everyone's reach. Those are truly unobtainable if they didn't teach anyone. Canon ones are always going to be passed down. No one with a canon tech keeps it to themselves.
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Eric

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2015, 05:21:06 AM »

Hopefully I can clear up a few things.

I got Hiraishin from Bocchiere, and as for the '1 for 1' rule, that was never established. Aaron has always had more than one student, or he does now, at least. Or did. Aaron's scroll makes it so the knowledge cannot be taught, stolen, or anything like that.

Bocchiere learned from Tommi years ago. When that happened, he was able to teach whoever he wanted. During that time, he didn't make it so people who learned from him couldn't teach, or he did so right after teaching me, because I clarified I was going to make my own scroll and teach others.

That being said, I DO follow the only one student rule and have a scroll that works like Aaron. No one can teach it or have it stolen from their heads when signing my scroll and learning it. I have taught Keito and my other alt, Hazama, was taught it by Bocchiere as well and I don't intend to teach it to anyone from him.

As for Tokujiro, Masane, and Ichirou, that happened because of Tsuyo. When Tsuyo learned everything Bocch did, he gained the ability to teach people. Tokujiro was taught directly by Tsuyo, I am pretty sure, and Masane and Ichirou learned from... I don't recall, but from Tsuyo's stuff or his training, one of the two.

As for everyone else, well, I haven't the slightest. I hope this helps a bit.


Ichirou was taught by Bocc just in time for my second biju match against him.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2015, 06:23:14 AM »

Hopefully I can clear up a few things.

I got Hiraishin from Bocchiere, and as for the '1 for 1' rule, that was never established. Aaron has always had more than one student, or he does now, at least. Or did. Aaron's scroll makes it so the knowledge cannot be taught, stolen, or anything like that.

Bocchiere learned from Tommi years ago. When that happened, he was able to teach whoever he wanted. During that time, he didn't make it so people who learned from him couldn't teach, or he did so right after teaching me, because I clarified I was going to make my own scroll and teach others.

That being said, I DO follow the only one student rule and have a scroll that works like Aaron. No one can teach it or have it stolen from their heads when signing my scroll and learning it. I have taught Keito and my other alt, Hazama, was taught it by Bocchiere as well and I don't intend to teach it to anyone from him.

As for Tokujiro, Masane, and Ichirou, that happened because of Tsuyo. When Tsuyo learned everything Bocch did, he gained the ability to teach people. Tokujiro was taught directly by Tsuyo, I am pretty sure, and Masane and Ichirou learned from... I don't recall, but from Tsuyo's stuff or his training, one of the two.

As for everyone else, well, I haven't the slightest. I hope this helps a bit.


Ichirou was taught by Bocc just in time for my second biju match against him.

Pretty sure Tetsuo did.
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sploofmoof

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2015, 10:13:19 AM »

My character also reverse engineered it after getting his hands on one of the seals people used to leave around back when it was newer and they liked to show off xD

Not that he'll ever use it, he just used it's concept to create custom space-time whatnot cuz that's what he does.

I am wary of how many people claim to be capable of researching such things though.  It's something my character has done IC for RL years but it seems so many people can just just research these things with little explanation.  /shrug
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Garō, Ichirou

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2015, 05:08:57 PM »

I got it from Bocchiere before he quit
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2015, 07:02:03 PM »

This reverse engineering is seeming more BS to me. 'Decoding' the seal doesn't automatically grant you the ability to use the jutsu in my opinion let alone if you could decode it. What info are you going on that allows you to pick apart the seal? Each Hiraishin seal is unique to the user. Of course there would be similarities for the teleport part, but all else would differ as said. As far as I know the secrets are kept to the users and no one has rp'ed giving the general knowledge of breaking down the seal.

And for those 'seal' masters out there who broke it down. I once again ask what info are you going off of? I don't imagine there's a book you all use to decode it.
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Camel

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2015, 04:16:32 AM »

I got it from Bocchiere before he quit

I got it after I bought most of his accounts, including Kyuubi. (However I incorporated some public RP, prior to the claims of it)   :oops:

Edit: Listen to the guy below me. :oops:
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 04:27:51 AM by Camel »
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Eric

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Re: Hiraishin (flying Thunder God)
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2015, 04:26:02 AM »

This reverse engineering is seeming more BS to me. 'Decoding' the seal doesn't automatically grant you the ability to use the jutsu in my opinion let alone if you could decode it. What info are you going on that allows you to pick apart the seal? Each Hiraishin seal is unique to the user. Of course there would be similarities for the teleport part, but all else would differ as said. As far as I know the secrets are kept to the users and no one has rp'ed giving the general knowledge of breaking down the seal.

And for those 'seal' masters out there who broke it down. I once again ask what info are you going off of? I don't imagine there's a book you all use to decode it.


Tl;Dr: The answer is literally in the technique, or in the case of hiraishin, in the technique formula.


Well, although it is never really explained in the series, Minato got hiraishin no jutsu from somewhere. The 2nd Hokage created the technique, and Minato was definitely not old enough to have learned directly from him, so unless there were a lineage of hiraishin users that never got introduced, Minato either learned it from a scroll or reverse engineered it.

Hiraishin is the same jutsu almost no matter who uses it. The differences between the technique formulas would either be to different dimenional voids (in line with the different pocket dimenison of Kamui line of thinking) or simply because, like writing a piece of code, each iteration of hiraishin follows a basic formula, but structures it slightly differently.

When decoding/decrypting a technique formula of any type, be it fuinjutsu or otherwise, the key is that the derived technique is either the original technique (including original formula) or a modified version based off of the original technique. Techniques similar to it can be invented without the original code, but that's not reverse engineering, that's just coming up with a different way to do the same thing without having a sample to work with, which would likely take longer than just borrowing someone else's code.

A space-time ninjutsu has to have a few basic principles in the narutoveres to make it function:

1) How does it teleport the user from place to place?

2) How does it determine the area of effect?

3) How fast does it move the user, and does this have any detrimental effects on the user?

4) What is the mode of inscription (seals) if any for the technique?

5) Is the technique a two-way streak, in that one can go to and from the different dimension that may or may not serve as a medium between teleportation.

In a technique formula where all the user has to do is think (literally, at will people put forth) most of this information has to be found in the technique formula, or otherwise has to be formed by the user manually.

Take these two examples:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Flying_Thunder_Formation_Technique

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Flying_Thunder_God_Technique

The former demonstrates the use of handseals and a specific formation in combination with the marker on Tsunade. The hiraishin mark on her serves as the desstination, while the formation serves as the area of effect (more likely than not, Tsunade could also be brought to the platoon via this jutsu, but I'm not sure).

The latter is literally think and it is done.

In the case of Kamui, all of this information would be stored in the eye. Hence, "decoding" Kamui is next to impossible unless you start becoming a biological genius who can decrypt cell information as if it were the written word, and even then, you would need a living sample in order to observe its function from start to finish for the most accurate record keeping purposes.


For those who do not use hiraishin directly to decode, it is a matter of speculation. The summoning jutsu, if it were condenesd into a technique formula (as my Jounin Exams fight presented) can be a knock-off hiraishin that, with some tweaks, could rival it presuming knowledge of will-activated technique formulas is known to the user.

Shadow Migration and Flying Shadow, two of my custom techniques, all started with the Shadow hell technique. By finding a way to go to and from the shadow dimension, the gate of shadows turned into shadow migration. By directly connecting the shadow gates and using the shadow dimension only as a temporary medium or void, Flying Shadow was born, though to keep it from being literally shadow imitation hiraishin, a handseal is required in order to perform it, since unlike hiraishin I would normally have the option of just staying in the alternate dimension.

At will I can use shadow migration in conjunction with shadow seals, but using flying shadow requires a handseal, ICwise, because not only must the user be sucked into the shadow, but they must also appear at their destination considerably faster than they normally would, adding a degree of complexity to the technique than was already present.

I hope that cleared some things up for you Shadow, or at least jogged your brain.

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Suishou Koji

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2015, 05:14:47 AM »

Koji got this skill from Kirk after getting permission from Dark.
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Uchiha Madara

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2015, 05:25:47 AM »

Learned mine from Dark about 4 years ago.
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Nathan

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2015, 05:12:42 PM »

So, why is this an issue? Ignore all the unlegitimate users who 'researched' it aside from the ones like Kayenta wo've done it a long, long time ago. As for the people who were taught it or stole it, then kill them? It ain't that hard. There are a lot more users then there were before, but if it really bothers anyone that much then hunt the people that you think shouldn't have it.

Teostra

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2015, 05:23:29 PM »

So, why is this an issue? Ignore all the unlegitimate users who 'researched' it aside from the ones like Kayenta wo've done it a long, long time ago. As for the people who were taught it or stole it, then kill them? It ain't that hard. There are a lot more users then there were before, but if it really bothers anyone that much then hunt the people that you think shouldn't have it.

Sounds like a good idea. Hell, I'd like it if I had someone who was stalking me for the sake of attacking me. When I first started this website, I picked a target and stalked and harassed them. Had a blast. And why is everyone getting so upset over this one technique? There's loads of other techniques that don't involve 'teleports behind you and stab you with my katana'.
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sploofmoof

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2015, 08:18:51 PM »

And why is everyone getting so upset over this one technique? There's loads of other techniques that don't involve 'teleports behind you and stab you with my katana'.

Cuz it allows people to use a get out of jail free card in fights essentially.

"Oh did I get cornered? Guess I'll just Hiraishin over there and avoid it."  Granted there are rules against spamming it, but considering peoples general negative attitude towards substitution techniques (which in this case it's sort of a fancy version of one) it's funny how many people want it.

And I personally believe that if people wanted the technique to be kept so secret they shouldn't have left the seals all over the place back in the day xD  It was only a matter of time before people started to reverse-engineer it.  Kyu did it a hella long time ago but I don't lay any official 'claims' cuz I have no interest in the drama involved in that for a technique I have no interest in actually using.  I just enjoy collecting RP knowledge and applying it to different uses.
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Suishou Koji

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2015, 11:24:18 PM »

By all accounts, Tommi was the first to claim such a skill so there. His character was Minato.
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Eric

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Re: Hiraishin (Flying Thunder God)
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 12:48:21 AM »

By all accounts, Tommi was the first to claim such a skill so there. His character was Minato.

I wasn't here when the technique was first introduced to the series and SL, but I highly doubt that he was the very first to claim it ever. He did however practically make a "Minato" character for all intensive purposes, and was probably one of the last of those types around here unless you count Bocchiere - Hidan (but there are so few similarities between the two).



... I want to do away with all this nonsense and just have fun. I am tired of being the potty patrol trying to get the dog outside before he wee's on my rug. You know?


I think trying to keep the dog from going on the rug is a worthy investment, if you want to keep the dog and the carpet that is. In a similar strain, I think it's a worthy cause keeping the number of hiraishin users in relative check, much akin to how Edo is regulated (and I haven't seen too many carbon copies as of late). But that's just me.
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