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[Eric]

My first question is, are there any? And if so, could we get them posted or pinned up somewhere?

Next is that the necessity of such is obvious. There needs to be a general guideline to conventional warfare so that we as players know what to expect and how to conduct ourselves in the conflicts. We haven't had a major world war in awhile, and both the meta and the way we zone have changed very much since the last one. At this juncture, it is high time to write the rules of warfare, starting with a clear definition of what is considered war in the SL realm.

My thoughts are that conventional war in the SL realm is a state in which two clans, entities, or otherwise, engage in a series of zone-like conflicts in order to achieve a certain objective. War begins when one party either declares such or initiates the first zone conflict, and ends when one party is either unable to continue fighting or peace is declared by the winning party or the drawing parties.

Thoughts?

[Keito Uzumaki]

Yay! I'm not the only one.... Hopefully that Iwa fiasco led you to believe SL needs a more suitable regulations/guidelines of how to carry out RP when dealing with people other than yourself. I mean If my characters are going to partake in any heinous acts, I'll still have the respect for the other party and not try and god-mod/meta to ruin fairness. That doesn't seem to be the case with others though.

I doubt there are any real rules, haven't seen them. I was HEAVILY suggesting that we started making some in which we all agree upon and start using, but forum based. So that we could give it a test drive to actually move it to the site. But that seemed to be disproved.
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8355.0.html

Personally any time I zone I abide by the ruling of; 1 offensive move, 1 defensive move, 1 supplementary move in a single post. Now don't get me wrong that means you aren't subject to just that. Sometimes offensive maneuvers can very well be your defense, freeing up space for you to move about, set things up more better. Or you could not be attacking for that round so you can defend yourself properly. Better yet, you can restrain your supplementary move and combine two attacking techniques to make a collaboration. So long as you don't stretch the limits of what your character can do in a given time frame!

I like things to make sense when I'm zoning. So if one post you are stating to start forming kata's at the end of your post and after my reply you completely negate the fact that you were generating a technique and do something completely different; I tend to get a little displeased with your etiquette. The whole trend I am seeing; is people tend to retro/meta post into saving their arses only once reading their opponents response. Its not fair to continually abuse the 'undo' button in a zone, the whole point is to learn from mistakes. Sure you catch me by surprise in a zone and out smart me. But don't try and prove your god-mod was actually logical. >>;

From what I've seen we only have rules on techniques and who is allowed to use them, funny. xD Otherwise people can just swap eyeballs and claim EMS, join a clan for less then a day and claim all their hiden secrets and blatantly be able to manipulate all elements from birth. So much is wrong, so much. x.x

BUT then again, that is why I seldom RP with those whom I don't know personally. Everyone's zone records seem to be undefeated and relate to themselves as some god.  Even if I claim connections with the Shinigami, he doesn't treat me like a best friend! Damn reaper killed me 3 times cuz he was starving.

Totally misread the topic and those thoughts were just on zoning and RP when involving combat in general.
When it comes to actual war things are much more intense. If anyone was to launch war on me, they must certainly know that before actually fighting me there would be a row of NPC's necessary to deal with as well as other variations. It no longer becomes a zone, it becomes war and thats something different entirely. I can organize a whole army of my minions to battle you, before I even think about stepping foot onto the battlefield, just to tire you out. Its all about being tactical!

[Ѕhadow]

No rules and there shouldn't be any. We have enough rules. If players want to start a war all they need to do is arrive.

All villagers have the same war policy though. That the attacker must allow the village to first gather forces to fight against. They can't come and automatically attack. Like Hono and Oreo did. Which is why they were voided.

From there it's up to the participants. Weather it's to the death or not and so on.

[Eric]

No rules and there shouldn't be any. We have enough rules. If players want to start a war all they need to do is arrive.

All villagers have the same war policy though. That the attacker must allow the village to first gather forces to fight against. They can't come and automatically attack. Like Hono and Oreo did. Which is why they were voided.

From there it's up to the participants. Weather it's to the death or not and so on.

But that really does not work, does it? All villages have an "attack" policy, not a policy for actually conducting a real extended conflict beyond a single attack and perhaps pursuit of fleeing attackers. Even with said policy in mind, it is unreasonable for two shinobi to attack a village in a conventional war. They would use NPC forces to bolster their ability and their power, in order to combat the NPC's of another village.

The participants can agree on some things regarding zoning, but a general guidelines for how war is to be conducted is still a reasonable idea. There hasn't been a great, conventional war in the realm for a long time; the fact that folks cannot come to an agreement on zoning matters is one thing, but how a war is supposed to be conducted should not be ambiguously left up in the air for an undetermined amount of time.

Right now, if Kirigakure were to declare war on and attack Sunagakure for whatever reason, then how would that play out? Would they need to go through zones in order to proper facilitate invasion of the country, with Sand patrols noticing and engaging the invaders, or do the Mist travel straight to Sunagakure and say "we are here for the item shop" (purely hypothetical here) and then the standard rules of village attacks apply. Because if it'ss the latter, then that doesn't make RP sense at all unless the sand jut allow a country they are at war with pass through their territory and walk all the way up to the village gates. I mean, I dunno, maybe the Kazekage runs things like that, but I highly doubt it.

As Keito put it, we have plenty of ruless covering what techniques you can use, how many actions you can do a turn, and stuff that restricts the general mayhem of everyone having a technique or doing a thousand moves in a single post. But we don't have anything that really covers the scope of a Great War. Suna does just fine without war, but if that Oreo and Hono attack shows anything, that isn't necessarily the case for everyone, because being a powerful shinobi, or even shinobi nation, does get a little dull when you spend your time training, living practically like a civilian, and going on missions with GM's that have relatively little large scale PvP going on.

I don't want to advocate a long list of regulations, but there has to be something that we can go on here. A terror attack or a two-man let's destroy the village fest is not what I mean by war.

[Keito Uzumaki]

War is a delicate aspect, since if it becomes too one sided; obviously the other party will get rowdy and end up not wanting any part of it. Although for the same boredom you have, I have been creating villainous NPC's. Soon they will wage war on the countries I have my characters invested in to hopefully engage some sort of war RP that will be fun for all. The villains will be NPC's so no one gets butt hurt, but it will not be one sided. I've been conjuring up a plot to portray where they will win some and the defenders will win some, ultimately winning it all. This is my personal way of forming war RP's, since it usually becomes a disaster when we even have group RP's. Just what I've witnessed; given the last time Iwa was invaded ended up making Trev 'die' due to his opting out of it and so on, so forth in craziness.

When it comes to war though, the SL characters are not all that are at play. Indeed, well for Uzushiogakure; we have a highly intricate army composure of both servants who work under the village leader and those who work under me. Both forces are to be dealt with when attacking, mind you already pass through the various defensive measures surrounding the village itself. So it isn't so simple to just storm into a village and start chopping heads, if thats your goal. And if nations are going to war, that means hostile tensions are already arising IC, not just I don't like your face so ima fight you(oocly). Meaning the villages would already be preemptive towards any strikes. Seeing how well these internal wars go I might start waging such on other nations, for fun though.

[Eric]

War is a delicate aspect, since if it becomes too one sided; obviously the other party will get rowdy and end up not wanting any part of it. Although for the same boredom you have, I have been creating villainous NPC's. Soon they will wage war on the countries I have my characters invested in to hopefully engage some sort of war RP that will be fun for all. The villains will be NPC's so no one gets butt hurt, but it will not be one sided. I've been conjuring up a plot to portray where they will win some and the defenders will win some, ultimately winning it all. This is my personal way of forming war RP's, since it usually becomes a disaster when we even have group RP's. Just what I've witnessed; given the last time Iwa was invaded ended up making Trev 'die' due to his opting out of it and so on, so forth in craziness.

When it comes to war though, the SL characters are not all that are at play. Indeed, well for Uzushiogakure; we have a highly intricate army composure of both servants who work under the village leader and those who work under me. Both forces are to be dealt with when attacking, mind you already pass through the various defensive measures surrounding the village itself. So it isn't so simple to just storm into a village and start chopping heads, if thats your goal. And if nations are going to war, that means hostile tensions are already arising IC, not just I don't like your face so ima fight you(oocly). Meaning the villages would already be preemptive towards any strikes. Seeing how well these internal wars go I might start waging such on other nations, for fun though.

A war with only a bunch of NPC's on one side is, while I'm not saying easy, is not really what I'm talking about here. A mix of NPC's and player confrontations is more of what I had in mind. It was alot easier when you could just count in-game PvP kills, but implementing an actual war IC is a bit of a headache.

Maybe when you die you stay dead for the remainder of the war arc unless otherwise revived? And after the war arc everyone comes back to life or something? An even fight is optimal, but a slightly lopssided fight is probably what Kusa had to deal with in the series when Iwa first invaded (presumably that's how the 3rd Great War got started) until Leaf reinforcements howed up to liberate the country.

[Keito Uzumaki]

Well the NPC's are going to be GM'ed under the specific accounts created. Although my plan is to make these accounts shared with the clan. Meaning select people will be allowed to log on and narrate the actions in their manner, giving variations to how the villains and NPC's act. Also, I've had requests from people within the clans, that wish to join the rebellion/villains! Its actually quite great! This is all mostly a test run to see how things would pan out in the event that other nations wish to engage war on us as well as to simply create some sort of plot story to Role Play in general. That way things are slightly scripted but are open for interpretation for RP. Who knows the villains could succeed if the village cannot properly defend, that is what the test is about!

Now that I think about it though, rules on warfare would be quite hard. Since warfare almost throws out rules in general; usually people play dirty in wars. >>;

[Eric]

It's RP, there have to be certain rules in place to minimize moaning, voiding, and unfair play.

Two countries going to war might could have a contract of sorts outlining what they allow and what they won't for the time being. Maybe over time recurring things that pop up in such contracts might could be more hardcoded figuratively speaking?

[UettoSenju]

Why do we need rules exactly? Have you all forgotten their was a time when we use to have war all the time and got along just fine? Konoha and Kiri were at each others throats for years. We would invade each other quite often... never an issue. No need for a method or NPC.

War is what formed many of our characters. Uetto is a prime example of this. Hell I gained my fame (what ever little it may be) from the war with Kiri really.

The only thing needed is for people to stop fighting OOC. Stop getting so but hurt over every little thing and get back to having fun.

There will always be the little common curtsies of invading and war. Like no blowing up a village on a whim. No entering a village automatically while no one from the village is online to stop you. Things of that sort. Typically no entering a village via space time to attack it. This is why we come from the outskirts to a village.

It is not so much as rule but more of a sense of pride, honor, and dignity as warriors and for our nations along with respect for our fellow rpers. Just because you are enemies does not mean you should not respect each other.

[Teostra]

Back then, there also wasn't a whole bunch of NPCs. Rarely people used NPCs for more than just transporting stuff. Couriers basically. Now, everyone's become much more political and people who try to be evil on their own tend to be voided.

Another issue is that everyone is just so powerful that not much happens at all. It's kind of the same reason why they never make Superman videogames. How are you going to have fun playing a character that is basically a god? Of course, people have always been super powerful, but back then everyone had their own niche and talents. Now, everyone's just senjutsu this and sage mode that. The uniqueness is gone.

[Eric]

Back then, there also wasn't a whole bunch of NPCs. Rarely people used NPCs for more than just transporting stuff. Couriers basically. Now, everyone's become much more political and people who try to be evil on their own tend to be voided.

Another issue is that everyone is just so powerful that not much happens at all. It's kind of the same reason why they never make Superman videogames. How are you going to have fun playing a character that is basically a god? Of course, people have always been super powerful, but back then everyone had their own niche and talents. Now, everyone's just senjutsu this and sage mode that. The uniqueness is gone.

There are efforts to at least diversify from the Gifted Blood trio (duo?), albeit, to stay competitive at the S-rank you have to either be extremely talented or at least have a trump on the caliber of sage mode, Rinnegan, or some custom tech(s). I mean, I've done well without sage mode for a while, but power creep can't be avoided with just new Nara techniques every 3 months. Eventually you kind of run out of stuff to imitate without becoming repetitive, OP, or simply a pirate copier.

Why do we need rules exactly? Have you all forgotten their was a time when we use to have war all the time and got along just fine? Konoha and Kiri were at each others throats for years. We would invade each other quite often... never an issue. No need for a method or NPC.

War is what formed many of our characters. Uetto is a prime example of this. Hell I gained my fame (what ever little it may be) from the war with Kiri really.

The only thing needed is for people to stop fighting OOC. Stop getting so but hurt over every little thing and get back to having fun.

There will always be the little common curtsies of invading and war. Like no blowing up a village on a whim. No entering a village automatically while no one from the village is online to stop you. Things of that sort. Typically no entering a village via space time to attack it. This is why we come from the outskirts to a village.

It is not so much as rule but more of a sense of pride, honor, and dignity as warriors and for our nations along with respect for our fellow rpers. Just because you are enemies does not mean you should not respect each other.

There are rules because a sense of pride, honor, and dignity as players (I won't even get into as characters because not everyone's character flaunts honor and dignity) can cut both ways, especially pride. A system run solely by morals only flows when all of the drops have similar compositions. That's not really the case right now, from what I can tell, not to mention newer folks who have never actually been in a SL Great  War (I admit I did little Leaf RPing during many of the Konoha-Kiri skirmishes cause there used to be much more than that around here) won't have that same instinct on what is legit and what isn't.

This isn't just to help out those with great rocks, but even some of those with not so great rocks. I mean, that RP in Iwa, for example, could have been worked out. Anyone who read the OOC can tell you that it could have been worked out with a compromise suitable to both parties. But at the end of the day, the OOC destruction of The Akatsuki was considered an offense too far with the accusation of god-modding lumped with the offending party, and so the void power gets whipped out for the first time in the country since Bocchiere left (that I recall anyways). In hindsight, perhaps it was better to some degree that it got voided at the character level, but at the player level, I've come to kind of feel bad about it because Iwa really could have went to war with Uzu over that (presuming there was anyone left that is lol). There could have been some interesting RP that followed up from that.

You can't just up and void an entire battle in a war. A war takes a significant amount of RP to actually do right, and nobody wants to invest that much time into a RP just to have it voided. So if anything, the rules are going to hardcode what can and can't be done so that battles and wars don't get voided except in the most extreme cases. And that incident in Iwa is not what I would consider extreme by any means.

...Like no blowing up a village on a whim. No entering a village automatically while no one from the village is online to stop you. Things of that sort. Typically no entering a village via space time to attack it. This is why we come from the outskirts to a village...

This is all mostly a test run to see how things would pan out in the event that other nations wish to engage war on us as well as to simply create some sort of plot story to Role Play in general...

The first quote is of a few things that I imagine would be added. The second if is a practical way of going about this; I mean, it's been so long since there has been a sizeable RP war that involved conventional nation vs nation fighting, I imagine many of us (I know I at least) don't really know how to incorporate it into modern SL fighting. We don't even know how other RPers would necessarily react to war; the whole zombie thing is a bit of a feel, but that's not really a war, that's some spiritualist playing demon with a few shinobi nations. 

For the official record though, I do not endorse account sharing. In the fine print, that's a brilliant idea!. However, having a sort of NPC-based war first would be a good idea to graduate up to player wars, just like in many FPS where you normally start off popping AI before you go running off into competitive multiplayer (I would never recommend someone who has never played FPS before to start with even general multiplayer. Knowing controls is a must in general multiplayer). So while I don't agree with all NPC's on a single side for a general principle, having all NPC's on one side to start with might actually be a far better way to draft this all out.

[Keito Uzumaki]

Well thats the plan, to basically start a test run to see how I personally as well as others will react in such occasion. I have some interesting scenarios in mind and as for the shared account; its not open to everyone, rather people I consider 'high ranking' and trust worthy in the village. That will allow for the villain to literally have more than one mind, in the way they operate. The villain itself will be considered as an NPC but SL character, where it narrates the NPC army. As mentioned, there are actual SL characters that want to join the opposing side so it won't only be NPC's on one side. But I figure this is a great way to start, given I haven't witnessed a great war in the years I've stayed on this site.

I believe before nations go to war there must be a deceleration of sorts. Like a scroll to the other nation, stating the terms. In which the nations will list out things they find grotesque and unjust when it comes to war; kinda like rules and regulations. That way it can be clean and bloody at the same time. Like respecting that every defender posts, before the offense begins their rounds. As well as maybe rules on what happens if a person takes too long to post(I couldn't care less about personal issues if in 1 week you don't post without a warning, skipped and dealt with). So on so forth, whatever seems fitting for your village and ideals.

[Ѕhadow]

I like being invited to war.

hey is your village busy? would they like to go to war in the future?

Then you can have all this pre-war rp. Picking fights and gaining intel and making an rp arc instead of just a hack and slash session.


I hate having the village rp trashed cause some bully wants to rain on everything for their own kicks.

I have and will continue to void stuff like that.

Now now Kayenta we can't exclude people in the community from participating in RP because the 3 guys rping in the village play by that rule and they will not play with guy #4 because he does not wish to play by that rule. SO guy #4 gets ignored and ridiculed and pushed to the side while guys 1, 2 and 3 make rp.

See what I did there?

[Eric]

I like being invited to war.

hey is your village busy? would they like to go to war in the future?

Then you can have all this pre-war rp. Picking fights and gaining intel and making an rp arc instead of just a hack and slash session.


I hate having the village rp trashed cause some bully wants to rain on everything for their own kicks.

I have and will continue to void stuff like that.

Now now Kayenta we can't exclude people in the community from participating in RP because the 3 guys rping in the village play by that rule and they will not play with guy #4 because he does not wish to play by that rule. SO guy #4 gets ignored and ridiculed and pushed to the side while guys 1, 2 and 3 make rp.

See what I did there?

Thank you for supporting my viewpoint my point, Shadow.
I guess you will have to stop making rules so that we can't exclude people in the community from participating in RP because the 3 guys rping in the village play by that rule and they will not play with guy #4 because he does not wish to play by that rule. SO guy #4 gets ignored and ridiculed and pushed to the side while guys 1, 2 and 3 make rp.

I don't think either of you are really helping here, because even if there was an all inclusive rule, then whatever standard you want for decency and fun would exclude in its own way. So, how about actual rules of SL warfare?

[Hono Uzumaki]

Since this game is more of a cliche of who likes who, here is my two cents.

There's no RULES for warfare, if rules were used, the US Colonies would have been voided by the British for using Guerilla Tactics. They thought it was unfair, but look who won?

Anyway, two people vs. village was fun, but the lack of creativity was sad. I figured people would think of ways to stop us.
#IWAisSilly