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Author Topic: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.  (Read 8773 times)

Uchiha Madara

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2015, 05:20:49 AM »

I don't know where this "one dimension" difference comes from, but from what of know of Space-Time Jutsu, they should all be able to somehow intervene with one another. Unless there is a seal or barrier preventing the user from using Summoning or FTG, there is no reason at all they shouldn't work in escaping.

"To activate this technique, the user places a special seal or "technique formula" (術式, jutsu-shiki) to mark an intended destination. After this is done, they can at will enter a dimensional void that instantaneously transports them to the location of the seal."

Kamui has no hinderence to Space-Time users. When the wiki says they are "unable to escape" we have to take that with a grain of salt. Theres no walking to a nearby door and stepping back into our dimension. There is no pathway to the Kamui dimension and ours, unless we make one. All Space-Time create that pathway as long as there is a connection to the outside world, like someone to Reverse Summon you or if you have a Hiraishin kunai out there somewhere.

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Kage

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2015, 06:13:15 AM »

It was proven with the Summoning Technique, that inter-dimensional travel via Space-Time Ninjutsu can work. It just takes a bit more chakra to do so, depending on the amount of people that are being transported and how "far" a dimension is.

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-686-page-9.html
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Mei

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2015, 12:14:03 PM »

It was proven with the Summoning Technique, that inter-dimensional travel via Space-Time Ninjutsu can work. It just takes a bit more chakra to do so, depending on the amount of people that are being transported and how "far" a dimension is.

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-686-page-9.html

How does that page link to Summoning Technique?
And there's different levels to Space-Time ninjutsu. Remember Katashi stated that Obito's Space-Time Ninjutsu is more advanced than FTG.

And remember that dimension was linked to the other dimensions.
In addition, before that scene, Obito had to follow Kaguya to her dimension via Kamui.
So it's not like he can go to other dimensions on his own.

I don't know where this "one dimension" difference comes from, but from what of know of Space-Time Jutsu, they should all be able to somehow intervene with one another. Unless there is a seal or barrier preventing the user from using Summoning or FTG, there is no reason at all they shouldn't work in escaping.

"To activate this technique, the user places a special seal or "technique formula" (術式, jutsu-shiki) to mark an intended destination. After this is done, they can at will enter a dimensional void that instantaneously transports them to the location of the seal."

Kamui has no hinderence to Space-Time users. When the wiki says they are "unable to escape" we have to take that with a grain of salt. Theres no walking to a nearby door and stepping back into our dimension. There is no pathway to the Kamui dimension and ours, unless we make one. All Space-Time create that pathway as long as there is a connection to the outside world, like someone to Reverse Summon you or if you have a Hiraishin kunai out there somewhere.


http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Amenominaka

More than one dimension is considered multi-dimensional, no? >.>
Each dimension is a different world as Naruto called it.

Of the time of head, it's like that anime Gunslinger Stratos.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 12:16:54 PM by Mei »
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Uchiha Madara

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2015, 03:56:56 PM »

Thats not what I was saying. Shadow's statement seems to say that FTG will only work in one dimension, thus not work in the Kamui realm. I wondering where he got that idea.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2015, 04:02:15 PM »

It will work in any dimension. You just can't go from one dimension to the next using FTG.
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Uchiha Madara

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2015, 04:36:47 PM »

But why exactly? If you've got a formula weapon or mark both in the dimension and outside, the user should be able to go between the two no muss no fuss.
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Kage

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2015, 10:12:16 PM »

How does that page link to Summoning Technique?

A reminder to read through the thread before posting.

Let's be honest here. This is really about the fight.

Most of the things past chapter 600 was it? ARE VOIDED. We did that months ago. I'l have to find the topic, but yeah.
Except for anything relating to Kamui, apparently.

But let's hold-up here. We'll have to break down what Space–Time Ninjutsu is first.

Quote
By manipulating a specific point of space, the user can warp anything targeted into a dimensional void and teleport it to another location instantaneously. Minato Namikaze, Obito Uchiha, Sasuke Uchiha, Kakashi Hatake, Tobirama Senju and Kaguya Ōtsutsuki are skilled users of space–time ninjutsu.

All summoning-based techniques are space–time manipulation related, as they warp the targets through a dimensional void to the summoner's location.[1]

Space–Time Ninjutsu allows one to bypass any Barrier Ninjutsu, as barriers only extend over the dimension they are placed upon, which cannot prevent Space–Time Ninjutsu users from escaping to the dimensional void and then back outside of the barrier's confines.[2][3][4]

It appears that each specific space-time technique has its own unique dimensional void that other techniques cannot normally access.[5] However, a user can synchronise their respective dimension with the other one to gain access to it. To achieve this feat, however, requires much more chakra.[6]

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Space%E2%80%93Time_Ninjutsu

So basically you're creating a hole, called a dimensional void, in space-time that acts as a shortcut to get instantaneously from one place to another. The issue here that we're trying to pinpoint is cross-dimensional travel. But really, cross-dimensional travel is the BASIS of ALL Space–Time Ninjutsu if you're creating a dimensional void to slip though the ordinary confines of the space-time continuum. This is EXACTLY how Kamui works as well. Though you're actually able to stay in this dimensional void, instead of just slip through it. That's a big part of what makes Kamui so special, along with not needing seals or a summoning tattoo to perform.

Heck, to escape Kaguya's Dimension after Kaguya got sealed, who was the only one that could take people in and out at that time, Hagoromo and the past kages performed the Summoning Technique to bring Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Sakura, Madara, Shukaku, Matatabi, Isobu, Son Goku, Kokuo, Saiken, Chomei, Gyuki and Kurama. Granted it did take a bit of extra man-power to summon all nine Tailed Beasts. Even in the Gaiden, Sasuke mentions traveling back and forth between Kaguya's Dimension and the regular world.

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-16.html

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-709-page-19.html

But if we're voiding anything not relating to Kamui past chapter 600, then most of this info is useless. But even if we're going with that silly notion, there's also this info on how Hiraishin works.

Quote
To activate this technique, the user places a special seal or "technique formula" (術式, jutsu-shiki) to mark an intended destination. After this is done, they can at will enter a dimensional void that instantaneously transports them to the location of the seal.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Flying_Thunder_God_Technique

And I do have some bias in this, as I was asked to reply to this topic. But that doesn't mean my input can be outright voided based on that. Otherwise, we'll have to weed out 65% of the replies in this thread.
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Mei

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2015, 11:16:16 PM »

How does that page link to Summoning Technique?

A reminder to read through the thread before posting.


I know how Summoning Jutsu relates to Space Time ninjutsu. What I don't understand is that you put a link to a Naruto Manga page that has nothing to do with the Summoning Jutsu.

I don't see an animal summoned from a different dimension in that page you provided.
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Kage

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2015, 11:18:10 PM »

How does that page link to Summoning Technique?

A reminder to read through the thread before posting.


I know how Summoning Jutsu relates to Space Time ninjutsu. What I don't understand is that you put a link to a Naruto Manga page that has nothing to do with the Summoning Jutsu.

I don't see an animal summoned from a different dimension in that page you provided.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-13.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-14.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-15.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-16.html
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Warren

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2015, 11:28:23 PM »

Again only assuming it doesn't take rinnegan or kamui-type mangekyo to make the cross dimentional connections. Even if it didn't it'd still take horrible amounts of chakra to do the summoning, not something any normal human or summon would have.
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Mei

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2015, 12:05:16 AM »

Thank you Kage for providing better, relevant links.

Okay so based on those links. It's possible.

However, it took about 20 people to summon 4 people from a different dimension.
And some of those summoners have been said to have (near) bijuu level chakra.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Combined_Summoning_Technique

Seeing what was required, it's safe to say that no SINGLE individual is capable of using FTG / Summoning Tech / Space-Time Ninjutsu to escape the dimension of KAGUYA's level.

However, if it's a Kamui-type dimension that one person made, then that means one should be able to escape. Considering how many times Obito was able to warp his whole body a few times between the real world and his dimension, escaping one-time should be    feasible.  No?
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Kage

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2015, 12:34:23 AM »

Thank you Kage for providing better, relevant links.

Okay so based on those links. It's possible.

However, it took about 20 people to summon 4 people from a different dimension.
And some of those summoners have been said to have (near) bijuu level chakra.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Combined_Summoning_Technique

Seeing what was required, it's safe to say that no SINGLE individual is capable of using FTG / Summoning Tech / Space-Time Ninjutsu to escape the dimension of KAGUYA's level.

However, if it's a Kamui-type dimension that one person made, then that means one should be able to escape. Considering how many times Obito was able to warp his whole body a few times between the real world and his dimension, escaping one-time should be    feasible.  No?
Don't forget to count the huge Tailed Beasts that were also brought across. Size, distance and amount of people most-likely has a factor in this.

Let's also not forget that it took the chakra of two people to continually open dimensional rifts straight to other dimensions, instead of using the Kamui dimension or dimensional voids created by Space-Time Ninjutsu as a middle-man.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-686-page-9.html

Anybody with a large pool of chakra or Tailed Beast could easily circumvent the chakra costs.

It's also been evident in the series that once you've entered a dimension, you've already familiarized yourself enough to know how to go in and out of it.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-610-page-11.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-610-page-15.html

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-686-page-5.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-686-page-6.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-686-page-7.html
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-687-page-11.html
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Warren

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2015, 01:20:43 AM »

Okay now you're just talking nonsense.

Hyakugou seal is storing chakra for 3 years, that's far more than just two peoples' worth, not to mention that was a double kamui, and even then was super draining, straining, lasted barely few seconds.

Not something everyone and their mom can do, at all.

Kakashi figured out how kamui work himself before that instance, getting chakra from kyuubi just made it easier for him to come back. Again, kamui, plus massive chakra.

Again something almost nobody could do.

Obito returning to Kaguya's dimension, yet again kamui, used at exact same moment Kaguya's own jutsu.

For claiming hiraishin and summoning would be able to do it, you're doing quite the opposite, just further supporting the fact only rinnegan and kamui can do it.
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Mei

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2015, 01:28:54 AM »

Okay now you're just talking nonsense.

Hyakugou seal is storing chakra for 3 years, that's far more than just two peoples' worth, not to mention that was a double kamui, and even then was super draining, straining, lasted barely few seconds.

Not something everyone and their mom can do, at all.

Kakashi figured out how kamui work himself before that instance, getting chakra from kyuubi just made it easier for him to come back. Again, kamui, plus massive chakra.

Again something almost nobody could do.

Obito returning to Kaguya's dimension, yet again kamui, used at exact same moment Kaguya's own jutsu.

For claiming hiraishin and summoning would be able to do it, you're doing quite the opposite, just further supporting the fact only rinnegan and kamui can do it.

But Warren, Obito and Sakura used up most of their chakra before that point.

Also, you did not mention anything about the fact that a Summoning Jutsu was used to bring back people from Kaguya's dimension.

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-13.html

Plus, remember that our topic is to get out of Kamui's pocket dimension, NOT Kaguya's dimension. It's evident that no one would be able to escape Kaguya's dimension by themselves.
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Warren

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Re: A dimension inside a dimension means we need to go one level deeper.
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2015, 01:54:27 AM »

Except Obito had recovered thanks to Naruto, even if it was implied he'd still perish sooner or later due to bijuu removal, Sakura too had been recovering and saving the seal in particular.

And I did earlier, only way I could see that working was because Hagoromo was there to make the connection to Kaguya's dimensions for the others, thanks to his rinnegan.
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