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Author Topic: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]  (Read 6086 times)

Eric

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2015, 02:54:53 AM »

... Like with a whip? But that might be stretching things...

That's what she said.  :twisted:

Quote
They would contain a preference list, with the understanding that these do not negate the official bijuu rules

So what power, if any, does the preference list actually have?
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2015, 07:59:50 AM »

To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?
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UettoSenju

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2015, 08:48:36 AM »

To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?

this
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Eric

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2015, 03:48:19 PM »

To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?

Do the challengers get to state what they are not putting up with either? Cause unless the challengers have their own preference list this "i'm not putting up with this and this and this" attitude steers us dangerously close to the hosts dictating what the challengers can and can't do. And I am not okay with that, for historical reasons.
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Hades

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2015, 06:58:57 PM »

To inform potential challengers what they are serious about not putting up with.
It indicates a preference. Terms still have to be agreed upon between the host and challenger just like always?

Do the challengers get to state what they are not putting up with either? Cause unless the challengers have their own preference list this "i'm not putting up with this and this and this" attitude steers us dangerously close to the hosts dictating what the challengers can and can't do. And I am not okay with that, for historical reasons.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2015, 07:42:45 PM »

I was thinking that challengers would not have to announce their preferences for the general public to peruse...no one if checking them out to see if they wish to approach them and challenge them for a bijuu.

To have that listed for the hosts makes sense with regards to that issue though. People who are shopping, as it were, for a bijuu can check the hosts out and see which ones look like the best set up for their own preferences, of which a challenger is very much aware.

During the pre-fight terms, the challenger will be discussing his preferences with the host. So it is not going to be a secret.
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Eric

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2015, 11:22:28 PM »

I was thinking that challengers would not have to announce their preferences for the general public to peruse...no one if checking them out to see if they wish to approach them and challenge them for a bijuu.

To have that listed for the hosts makes sense with regards to that issue though. People who are shopping, as it were, for a bijuu can check the hosts out and see which ones look like the best set up for their own preferences, of which a challenger is very much aware.

During the pre-fight terms, the challenger will be discussing his preferences with the host. So it is not going to be a secret.

But what kind of power do these preferences have? Let's say hypothetically that I rejoin The Akatsuki and try to help get the tailed beasts back. Perusing through the lists, I see someone who seems like someone I can take on (preferably someone who is not already famaliar with my battle style, because as my last biju match demonstrates that is a flaw of being a true specialist in something) but they have a bajillion (relatively) things that they prefer not to RP with. For example, custom space-time ninjutsu.

Eric is hampered by not being able to use shadow migration, shadow hell, shadow hell seal, etc.. Are you saying that I should pick another host because if the target refuses to negotiate that away (looking at my past fights and determining that keeping that is pivotal to their success)? Because if so, that preferences list is practically a list of demands.

I would rather there be actual rules on how to fight or hunt for a tailed beast battle and everyone follows "those" preferences. If the preferences list can just be shat on (pardon the language) by a challenger who doesn't wanna play ball, what is the point in having it in the first place?
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Bocchiere

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2015, 11:42:28 PM »

I think the point of the preference list should be like Eric mentioned. It lets you window shop. If I see a Jinchuriki who has an immense rule set up in his challenge list about how he wants the entire fight to be a game of Texas Hold Em I'm probably going to save that nut for later.

Neither the host nor the challenger should be able to dictate anything for certain, it all has to be decided between the two of them.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2015, 12:59:53 AM »

As to the point of the question, "What power do preference lists have"

I believe that they have NO power...but they show a PREFERENCE the host has when it come to setting terms of the match...they serve as a means to provide information to potential challengers who are shopping for a host to challenge.

If the need to define 'preferences' exists, then I feel it should be added to the rule section pertaining to making a forum account inserted in the part that talks about posting a list of preferences.

We may wish to move toward making at least one of these vote topics concluded in order to not have to rehash each aspect over and over. Currently we have no rules that have been adopted. As seen here in this proposed rule on how to make a challenge, failure to come to terms on the particulars of a match will require the council to step in.
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Eric

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2015, 01:13:50 AM »


...I believe that they have NO power...but they show a PREFERENCE the host has when it come to setting terms of the match...they serve as a means to provide information to potential challengers who are shopping for a host to challenge...


So, a shopper can just change the price and go to the checkout counter anyways? What's the point of the price tag then? Can't it just be negotiated at the register?

This "negotiate the terms of the RP", how does on actually go about it, at this point? I want this, Bocc wants that, neither of us wants to give up this nor that. What then?

I have an idea. Instead of a useless preference list, why not just have official rules on how to set up the matches. Because there is currently no reason (other than risk of some consequence, I'm not entirely sure I recall what the proposed penalty for neither side coming together on Hunt terms is) for a challenger and host who cannot agree on anything, to agree to anything!
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2015, 02:16:03 AM »

I like people who cannot agree on anything, and even after an third party is brought in to help facilitate an agreement and they still refuse to agree to terms for the match, getting a 3 month ban from participation: stripping the beast and not being able to make challenges for both parties. This 3 month ban does not include serving as a council member.

This would serve as a deterrent for being stiff necked and failing to work toward compromise.

I am not a stickler on mandatory preference lists. People have been using them for a while, so I was making accommodations for that trend. But preferences, if they will exist on paper or just through verbal discussions at the time of pre-match arrangements, do not supersede bijuu rules.

This assumes that we successfully agree upon a set of rules, and then a clause is made that it is the understanding that by participating in all things bijuu, you as the host, challenger, judge, council member do agree to following these terms.

"I have read and agree to the terms of service."

Might a host have valid objections to meeting a challenger in battle due to some serious flaws in the RP of the challenger? Sure...happens all the time. But they can go through the RP anyway. Such a problem will reveal itself during the match and can be dealt with at that time without the host risking being stripped for failure to accept all challenges. And if not, then the host's objections did not exhibit themselves and it turned out fine in the end.
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Raifudo Oppa

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2015, 04:13:50 AM »

Hey everyone
Quite honestly, preferences are cool and all but at the end of the day it's a huge effort to maintain between challenger and host. Just yesterday I was all up for a preferences list as a host should be able to determine the clause for what they're defending, ultimately it's theirs already and should be able to advocate what they want in a match to make it as exciting or as enjoyable for them as they can (fairly) make it. However, now that I think about it-- a standardized template can be considered with possible changes to it. Such as a preset of things they can void, but they also don't want mystery posts where people are vague about what happens so that it can happen in the future to whatever suits the need.

What if we do a point system? Like, extremely rough draft (making it as I write) but the host has 3 points to allocate in things they don't want.

Now, it's a given that things such as Swift Release, Izanami, etc. are frowned upon by many in an IC perspective, so a preset void list can just be thrown out there without costing points. Now, the host HAS to negotiate with certain things. Such as:

Challenger likes to use explosion release, dust release, rinnegan with paths, and a sage mode boost.

Well, the host doesn't like that one bit, but can use points to say he doesn't want rinnegan at all in the fight. I guess challengers may have points too? I dunno, think of it like using money to barter for an item you want. The buyer wants less, the seller wants more. End of the day, middle grounds is only met by a give and take that both agree on.

I'll expand on this more later tonight as I'm at work right now and can't invest that much time atm.

Edit: Steel > *Izanami.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 06:00:47 PM by Raifudo, the Raifudo »
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Bocchiere

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2015, 04:48:36 AM »

That sounds interesting. Who has problems with Steel Release though?
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Raifudo Oppa

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2015, 06:01:33 PM »

That sounds interesting. Who has problems with Steel Release though?

Honestly, I don't remember why I said steel release. I didn't even mean that one.

Got home pretty late last night so I'll be working on a rough draft for the point system throughout the day.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Should preference lists be approved by council? [discussion]
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2015, 09:39:50 PM »

I like the notion that each person, the host and challenger, can have 3 voids that they may or may not wish to use. I mean especially when it comes to custom KG and such. How would you even know to void my mind control auto-hitting death ray lazer eyes KG in the first place?
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