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Author Topic: Future Council Structure [Discussion]  (Read 9557 times)

Genesis

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2016, 05:40:10 AM »

You're 100% right and that last question toward you was a rhetorical one...you didn't have to answer. >>

And I should've clarified further. The whole point of the original post wasn't to whine or complain. I called it a 'testimony'; my experience and I then told the people discussing here to hear me out so it could help better the discussion. I believe we were originally talking about the appeal of the council and who would want to do this job. I was merely saying there is no appeal to this position, and if you want a council, you should make it...somewhat(?) appealing. This council has no authority...hell, some people still doubt it's authority. Who wants to serve on a council when the foundation is wavering...when a big event happens and the community is at your neck, it's gonna get nasty. Who wants to deal with that?

I was talking about the appeal of the position. Now I'm pretty sure you'll find volunteers, though I wonder how you'll do that since we barely mustered up 5 last time around. And if you do find 5 or 7, you're going to find a whole new batch of 5 and 7. Your candidates are now getting smaller and smaller with each cycle.

So in short, I never whined or complained. I was talking about my experience and if anyone was potentially interested in said position.
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Ace

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2016, 05:48:31 AM »

Oh, I wasn't referring to you, or anyone specifically, with regards to complaining. =)
In my posts, as you have surely noticed, I make general statements on occasion to save time, just so people view a discussion from another point of view.

I simply want to ensure others know that nothing is easy, or as ideal as we like it to be. Hence why I simply state how it is, and how it works. Again, I may not agree with it, but just like everyone else, I follow the norm as well.

If you would like to make it more appealing, then ideas should be offered. And then we vote on it. =)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 06:01:28 AM by Ace »
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Eric

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2016, 12:50:56 PM »

What would you say is enough then?

5 is a pretty decent number for me, 3 even would do if they were extremely active all of the time (unrealistic and untenable). And I'm still opposed to jinchurikii being on the Council. Former jinchurikii I'm open for though.

You're 100% right and that last question toward you was a rhetorical one...you didn't have to answer. >>

... This council has no authority...

I was talking about the appeal of the position. Now I'm pretty sure you'll find volunteers, though I wonder how you'll do that since we barely mustered up 5 last time around. And if you do find 5 or 7, you're going to find a whole new batch of 5 and 7.

The Council does have authority, even at this point. The redistribution of the biju went as well as it did because the Council did have authority. Maybe not absolute authority, but then dictators we would be.

Who wants the job of constantly being challenged on positions and decisions? Governers and regulators who do their job with the consent of the governed/regulated.

Consider this. The first Council may be full of a bunch of nice people, but say we get to the 5th iteration and corruption starts to creep in as the biju rules expand to more and more IC components of the jinchurikii. Not being on the Council is already bad enough, but having near every move governed by the Community's set of rules when nobody but jinchurikii and hunters have to follow? Throw down on top of that blatant corruption? There would be a volatile riot or protest far worse than mere criticism alone.

Right now being a Council member is neither desirable nor very powerful because the only thing it has to do is enforce the rules. Which is not much, UNTIL and UNLESS the biju start being regulated in standard RP, in which the Council has to start enforcing what becomes effectively RP rules. Even one corrupt Council Member needs to be challengeable and approachable.

Now, I'm not saying that getting challenged every decision no matter what is something Shinobilegends Players find appealing, but things around here run like a democracy (sometimes raggedy, sometimes very well oiled) so the governed at all times have to have the ability and will to challenge the governors who enforce Community legislation. US Congress is what you would eventually get otherwise.


... Personally, I find it completely *acceptable* that I justify the reason for actions I take to those that *need* to be notified. I expect other staff to do so as well. In my case, I justify my actions to the staff and Oliver if necessary. And, I discuss with mostly each individual I warn or ban. I rather not share names, but any staff member at least can attest to that.


I can attest to his informing of staff of things. I was not left wondering why we went from having 3-2 village square moderators to 1 village square moderator. Do I still remember the exact reasons after all this time? Not really, but I do remember being told about it.


...If you would like to make it more appealing, then ideas should be offered. And then we vote on it. =)


Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, hot and fresh off the conveyor, delivered to our mouths everytime before we make a ruling. To make our tongues sweeter.  :eek:

I joke.

If a brand new batch for Council can be found, great. If not, then what's left will endure, even with reduced numbers if necessary. No one both competent and honorable really seems to be running for national public office anymore in the United States, and that has contributed to a problem with leadership; there are exceptions, but the majority seem bought and paid for by lobby players.

Do you blame the representatives for taking that extra stipend? Or do you blame the people who continually vote them in? Or maybe the blame should be shifted to everyone who shuns Congress but if offered would never have the guts to get in there and challenge the status quo for real? The push is for people to be basically anything BUT a legislator when I see commercials pushing for people to do something with thier lives.

Why is that? Researchers, doctors, engineers, entertainers, teachers, and more all seem to have greater worth to society than running the actual country (outside the presidency, which is only one part of the equation). Is it any wonder then that management is so, shoddy, when nobody resiliant enough to resist the pressures and temptations of the offices even wants to try the route of a politician? Is it any wonder that an overall selfish society has selfish leaders?

It's not, it really is not any wonder. Bringing the scale back down to here, would it be any wonder if we go back to the interim period where we sat in a no-biju-rules void? Would we really need to question WHY we might would still be stuck there had Ace not brought the Power Rangers together?

If we want to attract people to a Council that has no other incentive than, "Keep the wheel going", then dammit, make the case that keeping that wheel going is the most important thing in the world. Bring up the evidence of what happened before the wheel, the forces put in to get something done that resulted in no net work, the threads that led to nowhere before there was evident and recognized leadership. No village in SL, no clan in SL, runs smoothly without leadership, even if all parts of that leadership do is make sure nobody in that village goes against the village rules. Make it so that the people qualified and least likely to succumb to blatant corruption are able to get in in the first place, which includes Kage and, yes, within the frame of making this post, I say even jinchurikii. A hunter can be on the Biju Council up until the point they win a biju, so why in the world shouldn't a jinchurikii be able to be on the Council? To heck with it, the only ones not eligible to run for Councilship are those that have been kicked from the position before due to misconduct.

Open the Council up to everybody, and let the voters make their choice. The interested parties in SL know who around here would probably do a good job, and even if they don't, they have the power to challenge the Council anyways, so one way or another it will get rectified if the mess-up is great  enough.

No more of this "we need volunteers badly but restricting the most interested of parties" from me. If there is going to be any change in the Council structure, we should start with the eligible candidates: anyone who volunteers, is willing to give the role a chance, and can convince their peers (because unlike the US many of us are very much on a peer relationship with each other) that they have what it takes to lead the Council of Biju Rules Enforcement, CBRE.

If people still dont' want to be in the Council, then what I said earlier only rings louder. It's hypocrsy to say that the interested parties don't care, because the kage and the jinchurikii, the ones who CARE about biju matters perhaps the most out of the SL population, are restricted from being on the Council. How many others are going to care enough about biju matters to actually want to go through what we went through Genesis? To go through worse things to come?

We already have the answer to that folks: Hardly anyone.

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Hades

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2016, 05:50:36 AM »

But there are some. I, for example, really like being on the council and handling this stuff, but have no desire to be a kage/host/etc. Even after all of the heat we took during this redistribution... I still like it. (Call me crazy)
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Eric

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2016, 03:08:29 AM »

But there are some. I, for example, really like being on the council and handling this stuff, but have no desire to be a kage/host/etc. Even after all of the heat we took during this redistribution... I still like it. (Call me crazy)

There's one. Wish I would have read this post before posting in the vote thread, totally would have said 6 instead of 5. >_>

Still, takes more than 1-2 to make up the Council.
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Ace

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2016, 05:18:08 AM »

This is not the discussion thread for this. The Council structure thread linked on the first post is.

However, since people are giving conditional votes (which is kind of hard to count) let me reiterate my two cents here. If you can find 5 non-biju and non-kage who want to be on the Biju Council, then I am willing to consider the "conflict of interest" as a problem. Get me 3 and I would be impressed. The Council has trouble filling out its member list, so why NOT let the jinchs and the kages on board? It's not like really anyone else seems to care enough to be on the Council at this point in time.

I'm all ears for alternatives to filling out the slots.

Although I voted for the majority, I must at least defend the minority.
Before we keep on saying there are not enough people wanting to be on the council, let's wait and see how many people show interest. You may be right Eric, but at least wait and see how many people show interest. The point is not to assume, and then if right say "told you so." Anyone can do that. xD

I try not to assume anything, even if I may be right...I would give you the same advice. ;)
Planning for the future however, is a different discussion.
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Eric

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2016, 01:32:10 PM »

This is not the discussion thread for this. The Council structure thread linked on the first post is.

However, since people are giving conditional votes (which is kind of hard to count) let me reiterate my two cents here. If you can find 5 non-biju and non-kage who want to be on the Biju Council, then I am willing to consider the "conflict of interest" as a problem. Get me 3 and I would be impressed. The Council has trouble filling out its member list, so why NOT let the jinchs and the kages on board? It's not like really anyone else seems to care enough to be on the Council at this point in time.

I'm all ears for alternatives to filling out the slots.

Although I voted for the majority, I must at least defend the minority.
Before we keep on saying there are not enough people wanting to be on the council, let's wait and see how many people show interest. You may be right Eric, but at least wait and see how many people show interest. The point is not to assume, and then if right say "told you so." Anyone can do that. xD

I try not to assume anything, even if I may be right...I would give you the same advice. ;)
Planning for the future however, is a different discussion.

The problem is, do I count a conditional yes as a "yes" or as a "no"? As it is right now, the actual Council structure isn't set in stone. If the composition turns out to be different than what the conditional yes' wanted, then would a revote happen or would they want to rescind their votes or something like that?

And it was a challenge to find enough people interested more than anything else.

Still, how do I count a "yes, but-" vote? As a yes or no? Because maybe isn't really an option.

* Additionally, we already did a "come all volunteers" thread, once for the first Council and again sometime later. I'm not saying that there is hardly anybody wanting to volunteer  who is not a jinchurikii or a kage just because I can. There is a basis to it. xD

However, if there is some life breathed into the volunteer thread, I"ll accept my "you were wrong" cookie with my usual grace. Happily, really, I would rather be proven very wrong than proven exceptionally right in this case.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 01:35:53 PM by Eric »
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Ace

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2016, 11:53:01 PM »

Oh, you know by now I could care less about someone being "right" or "wrong." :P
The objective is simply finding ways to our goals.

I would possibly suggest then to hold off on certain voting topics, until most are sure they can be properly addressed.
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Eric

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2016, 04:59:46 AM »

Oh, you know by now I could care less about someone being "right" or "wrong." :P
The objective is simply finding ways to our goals.

I would possibly suggest then to hold off on certain voting topics, until most are sure they can be properly addressed.

3 non-jinchurikii. Well color me yellowjacket crazy then, if I were to volunteer that would be 4 non-jinchs. High percentage of staff that would be, but you know what they say about beggars.
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Ace

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2016, 05:25:56 AM »

...can't be choosers.  ;)
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Future Council Structure [Discussion]
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2016, 05:54:15 PM »

Alright. I want to close this thread and start a new Future Council Structure Discussion topic.

It's unwieldy at this point. I will summarize the view points and try to come up with some suggestions...from there vote threads could be constructed based on further topic discussion.

thank you.
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