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Author Topic: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo  (Read 2664 times)

Becquerel

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Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« on: November 14, 2016, 01:10:55 PM »

Long, long ago when I first joined I made a topic about using dice rolls on SL. http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8337.0.html
The idea's been rolling about in my head as I've been thinking of ways to potentially 'fix' SL RP. I would like to hear everyone's opinion on this potential idea. Mind you, if anyone wanted to try, it would be completely opt in if anyone wanted to try it.

So a big problem, I feel, with SL RP is the fact that there's no level cap. Not only that, but a lot of abilities and character skills are all based off of arbitrary things. For example, if I wanted to have a character gain any ability, all I really have to do is edit a wiki page or just will it into existence. Kind of unfair really because all you have to say is that you're the better writer when all you really have is just a character who's too stacked with abilities and buffs for anyone to really go against. So, here's my idea (the numbers can be tweaked):

Since SL has an integrated dice system you could either use it or some sort of third party site (like https://rolz.org/ ). Let's say Nin1 gets into a fight with Nin2. They post their introductory posts or whatever, but as soon as actions start occurring, the dice start rolling. This can go one of two ways.
  • Nin1 posts their attack/action phase. They then roll a die (D20 or +) and get a number. Nin2 then posts their response (attack/def/etc) and rolls a die. Whoever gets the higher roll would determine the successful result.
  • Nin1 makes a post and rolls a die. Nin2 then rolls a die and then makes their post. This one could be more likely to be abused because if you know you're getting a bad roll, you might be more defensive.
This could even be used when there's more than two players or a GM involved to determine the effectiveness of a potential user's response to an action or event. This will help prevent god-modding in a sense because even if your character might be the most powerful being around, some bad luck might cause you to slip on a banana peel and take some damage from your foe. If you really want to get technical, you could roll a die for each technique you use to determine its effectiveness as well.

I'll do a scenario below
Quote
Nin1: While Nin1 was observing Nin2 from within the trees on his route. In total silence, Nin1 took aim as he enchanted his kunai with wind release to give it extra cutting power and speed. Then, when the moment was right, he aimed right for the back of Nin2's neck.
D-12
Nin2: Detected something was wrong with his negative emotion sensing ability, but couldn't quite pick it. But, thanks to his super hearing and superhuman reaction speed, he was able to hear something being thrown at him. He quickly ducked while doing handsigns, dodging the kunai while turning towards where it was thrown. With a mighty breath, he exhaled a katon technique.
D-9
Nin1: Though the ninja might have been fast, he wasn't quite fast enough as the kunai still managed to graze his neck and cause a minor injury. At the same time, the fireball that was launched towards his direction would have been a great threat. He lept backwards, throwing an explosive tag at the fire hoping that the explosion would disrupt the heat. He'd land in another tree, his sharingan activating.
D-19
Nin2: He cursed as he grasped at his neck. A rookie mistake despite being an expert, but the other nin was still able to get a drop on him. His fireball continued onward to either envelop the tag and further burn down the whole area or be stopped right there. Either way, he'd ready his katana as he could see the glimmer of those red eyes of his opponent. Charging his blade with lightning chakra, he rushed forward with blinding speed with the intent to slice his opponent in two.
D-2
etc...

The best way I could see this working would to be some kind of point system. Basically, if you get the higher number, your attack/defense will be the more effective one. If you get even numbers, then it'd be a stalemate. If your number is +5 more than the other guy's, you get a good hit (more damage, stronger buff, etc). If it's +10, then it's a critical hit.

I know a lot of people might not like this idea in respect to what it might do to their characters, me included in some ways. Like Bec, he should never lose an arm-wrestling match because he's super-super strong...But I honor the bad roll and will play through with it :) But like I said, this would be opt in if anyone was willing to try it. This might help with the sense of beating your head against a wall that some of us can get here when dealing with other players.

Anyone got any opinions? Ideas? Willingness to try it?
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 05:22:47 PM »

I would go to the zones and try this with you. I think it could be fun.

I will get back to you on this topic later today.


 
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Trev

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 10:10:46 PM »

The only problem I personally see is that it doesn't lower the level cap of players and the dice would result in instant death.

Your example is a fine one, except in a biju fight or IC death match it would look like this potentially.

Nin 1: Drops a meteor on their opponent.
Gets good roll

Nin 2: Tries to avoid in some way
Bad roll

Result: crushed by a meteor.

Basically, I'm saying there are a lot of technique were any sort of favorable roll would result in death (Human path, Kamui, etc.)

Also, how would your system account for things such as hiraishin? roll to see if you teleport? Or maybe if you reacted quick enough to teleport I suppose?

Just somethings to think about. But this system would work very well, provided the opponents place a cap before the fight (Say pre-shippuden, or Pain arc, etc.)
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Becquerel

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 11:35:58 PM »

Well, there could be multiple ways around it. It's not a perfect system, but it's probably a lot better than an arbitrary system that we have in place now. Kayenta looks like she's drafting something up as I type this message, so maybe we can take a look at what she figures out.

And like I said, this would be completely opt-in. Meaning that only people who decide to take part in this would be affected by it. And maybe we can also rework how 'death' works on here. If you get a bad roll that ends up in your defeat or death, then that's just the luck of the draw. Instead of having your character perma-dead and stolen by you killer to be paraded around as an edo, just come back later on. You could either just return, show up after some RP (like Kratos from God of War who literally climbed his way out of hades), or do whatever you like.

And the hard thing about this format would be how and when to actually roll. Personally, I'd like to roll first and then formulate my post from that point. Some people might not like that. But that's why you could roll for each thing that you do if you want. If I could, I'd really like to do a test run with someone using pre-fab ninja (Kisame/Kidomaru/Asuma/etc...). That way there's no animosity about who has the better character, we already know their movesets, and each character is effectively a ninja. If things went well, I'd even like to implement it in Otogakure and try to set up an Oto roll room for RP that takes place there. :)
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2016, 02:42:56 AM »

yeah. I think that stuff over there is ready to look at. Though the forum is hating on me and my color coding tonight. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Keep in mind when you read...

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/board,50.0.html

this is just for a level 1 character. Later after we play with it, we can figure out how to buff it up to be more in line with the rank your character really is...or not.

We could just level up using the system as is...and forget what we have on SL. It's just w/e to me, to be honest.
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Vail

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 02:46:07 AM »

I love this idea, and I'm willing to try it out with you. I think I may have a way to establish some sort of "point system" that you described and avoid something like Trev mentioned.

A while back I posted this thread in an attempt to quantify roleplay on SL based on another site I have roleplayed on in the past.

The thing I want to focus on is this (warning: this is long):

Comparison Tiers

There are four different Comparison Tiers on SL that govern the results of these checks. Many techniques have requirements based on the result of checks involving them. The tiers are listed with the conditions for each. The range of each tier is identical in both ranks and stats.

Equivalent, –20 or +20 stats/equal skill ranks. The result is effectively equal.
Advantaged, +20 to +49 stats/a skill rank difference of one. The result is decidedly in the favor of one side.
Superior, +50 to +99 stats/a skill rank difference of two. The result strongly favors one side.
Dominant, +100 or more stats/a skill rank difference of three or more. The result extremely favors one side and could potentially obliterate the opponent entirely if something extraordinary is not done to prevent it.
-100 or More | Dominant Defender
-49 - -100 | Superior Defender
-20 - -49 | Advantaged Defender
-19 - +19 | Equivalent
+20 - +49 | Advantaged Attacker
+50 - +99 | Superior Attacker
100+ | Dominant Attacker

All of this exists purely as reference material for interpreting combat. Above all else, you should write what feels right.

Damage Determination

Superficial Damage - Direct hit at Dominant Defender | Glancing hit at Superior Defender
Menial Damage - Direct hit at Superior Defender | Glancing hit at Advantaged Defender
Minor Damage - Direct hit at Advantaged Defender | Glancing hit at Equivalent
Moderate Damage - Direct hit at Equivalent | Glancing hit at Advantaged Attacker
Major Damage - Direct hit at Advantaged Attacker | Glancing hit at Superior Attacker
Severe Damage - Direct hit at Superior Attacker | Glancing hit at Dominant Attacker
Fatal Damage - Direct hit at Dominant Attacker

 A wound level is determined first by damage and then by modification, if an ability reduces or negates wound levels/wound level changes then compare them for a net effect and then apply it to the damage check for a final wound level.
 
Wounds

Wound calculations occur after any failed block or dodge attempt, and are purely determined by Strength/Spirit vs Defense, with no associated skill check. Wound Locations, while important thematically, have no bearing on actual combat itself; A Fatal wound inflicted on a person’s foot is just as deadly as one inflicted on their head (because at that tier, you’d likely have your entire lower torso ripped off by the attack in question.)

Two wounds of the same severity are equal to one wound of the next rank higher. That means that two Moderate wounds are roughly equivalent to a single Major wound.

Superficial: Stinging sensations, barely breaking skin (like a scratch). Equivalent to touching boiling water, leaving a burning sensation but no lasting damage. Inflicted by a direct hit at Dominant Defender.
Menial: Wounds like scrapes, shallow cuts, and bruises. Sunburns. Inflicted by a direct hit at Superior Defender.
Minor: Slightly deeper cuts, shallow stab wounds, and severe bruising. First-degree burns; a bad sunburn. Inflicted by a direct hit at Advantaged Defender.
Moderate: Deep cuts, slightly deeper stab wounds, fractured bones. Second-degree burns; severe damage to the skin that has caused it to be partially burnt away.Inflicted by a direct hit at Equivalent Combatants.
Major: Deep stab wounds, broken bones, torn muscle. Third-degree burns; incredibly severe burn damage that can burn through even muscle and expose bone. . Inflicted by a direct hit at Advantaged Attacker.
Severe: Gaping holes in your body and severed limbs. Parts of your body have been burnt completely away. Inflicted by a direct hit at Superior Attacker.
Fatal: Vital organs are entirely destroyed and, likely, the rest of your body with them. Blows of such magnitude can reduce you to dust just by the air pressure surrounding them. You, or vital parts of you, have been reduced to dust by extreme heat. This is a deathblow for most characters, though some may have convenient methods of surviving. Inflicted by a direct hit at Dominant Attacker.

Dodging

Note: Dodges below Equivalent are considered 'Failed Dodges' while Equivalent or higher are considered 'Successful Dodges'.

Dominant Attacker - Impossible to dodge, damage uneffected
Superior Attacker - Challenging to dodge, damage reduced by one wound level
Advantaged Attacker - Difficult to dodge, damage reduced by two wound levels
Equivalent - Minor strain to dodge
Advantaged Dodger - Annoying to dodge
Superior Dodger - Simple to dodge
Dominant Dodger - Trivial to dodge

Countering

Note: Requires your counter technique (or attack) to have Equivalent or greater attack speed to attempt.

Countering occurs when an offensive technique (or attack) is used to respond to another offensive technique (or attack.) For every rank of skill difference, modify by 1 tier (ex. Grandmaster Taijutsu vs. Advanced Weapon Proficiency would mean a punch would be +2 tiers against a blade-based counter attack or technique.) Damage is reduced by the amount of damage the counter attack deals after being modified by tiers.
 
Blocking with a Weapon

Dominant Attacker - Impossible to defend, damage uneffected
Superior Attacker - Challenging to defend, damage reduced by one wound level
Advantaged Attacker - Difficult to defend, damage reduced by two wound levels
Equivalent - Minor strain to defend
Advantaged Defender - Annoying to defend
Superior Defender - Simple to defend
Dominant Defender - Trivial to defend

Maybe we could use this as a reference for developing a means of creating a balanced system. There are seven tiers going from Dominant Attacker to Dominant Defender, so we could use a 7 sided die on the website that Bec linked to.

Joining a dice room on that same site would allow combatants to see what the other person rolls to prevent cheating.
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Becquerel

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 03:40:30 AM »

For now, Vail, it looks like Kayenta is developing a good system. Once she has her thing done, perhaps we can try to collaborate and come up with a final selection. But for now, let's focus on just one. Don't want to start building a car and all of a sudden have someone comes in and dumps all the parts of an airplane into your pile when you're half-way through.

And I agree with the room set-up. For example, if we start out with Oto being the poster child for such a program, I would make a dedicated room for it so anyone could hop in and do their rolls so if they try to claim that they should win we have the numbers to go by. I really would like to make this happen and I want to thank everyone for their help. Even if just a few people join, that's a win for me :) It would kind of clear up a lot of confusions and complaints that people have in regards to the RP and might even abolish the judging system if it really takes off.
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Vail

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2016, 04:36:14 AM »

Fair enough. After looking it over though, I think her system is too restrictive. I think what I've offered + the die rolling systems offer just enough structure without cutting down on the flavor.
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Becquerel

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2016, 04:57:59 AM »

Well, it might be a little more simplified but at the same time that might be better. If we make things too difficult and complex, it'll be harder for people to try and join in because they might not understand everything that's going on. If it's too simple, people might not like it because they might not like the fate of the dice. Kayenta's looks just complex enough to cover the basics while also allowing you some liberties with your writing and character building abilities. Of course, we would need some test runs to find out what works best, but I don't expect it all to happen in one day :)
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Rusaku

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 04:35:55 AM »

Man I'm certain we could use genjutsu in this system. You gotta have a good roll in order to overpower it, opposed to just instantly breaking out. Brings a whole new avenue of approach for Zone fighting. I'd be down, but the idea of learning a new system to fight on here seems like the opposite of a good time. 
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 04:56:39 AM »

I know what you mean. It's daunting looking at everything and going...dang...I am not working on my master's degree here, just want to play and have fun.

but once you start using it, it really is rather easy and doesn't really inhibit creativity, just adding in chance and luck to the mix some. You can do 'check' and roll for outcomes as little or as much as you like.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Dice Rolls Topic 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2016, 05:30:43 AM »

It's like DnD :D
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