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Author Topic: Defining Strongest Shield  (Read 606 times)

Timothy

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Defining Strongest Shield
« on: March 14, 2017, 07:06:24 pm »

Strongest Shield, one of the abilities of the Third Raikage. I wanted to have it clearly defined here, in terms of Shinobi Legends Roleplay. How does one legitimately obtain it? What does it protect against? What is it still vunerable to? Talking to different people I got various answers. Searching for mentions of it on the forums, I could not find anything definitive either.

So let us discuss, debate, & come to an overall understanding of how this ability should be/is played in Shinobi Legends fairly.
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Rusaku

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 11:18:43 pm »

I've always kinda equated it to a layer of Kaguya bone. It's a pretty substantial defense against most conventional methods of attack, but there are still plenty of ways to get around it. I.E You can't train your organs, fire will still turn you to ash if it's hot enough and Hell Stab will always work against it, because cannon. 

It gets however much stronger when sage mode its applied.   
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Eric

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 12:00:25 am »

I figured it was kind of like a yang release earth spear kind of deal. It's not regenerative and has no elemental weaknesses per say, but its strength is not infinite and it would be difficult to summon things (unless the player has a way to draw blood in another way). It's main strength is against hard fist and wide area blows, while it seems to be weaker to very strong, precise, pinpoint strikes (hell's stab one finger nukite). It is not a KG in the most general sense because the 4th Raikage did not inherent it, unless its recessive.

To my knowledge, there are no rites required to claim it.
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Camel

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 12:23:28 am »

Strongest Shield = Raiton no Yoroi + Third Raikage's durability. (Hell Stab is a different matter all together, but the parent technique happens to be RnY.)

According to rules at the narutoprofile wikipedia, you can't claim elemental techniques yet we already have few techniques listed in there that happen to be elemental related; this technique included.

Unless someone can show me a citation from the original naruto wikipedia, where it states that the Strongest Shield isn't exactly as I just described it. I'll gladly rebuke my comments, but until then there really isn't any prerequisites to claim it as Eric stated, other than having RnY; which means anyone can legitimately claim it.
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Chinote

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 01:33:33 am »

Unless someone can show me a citation from the original naruto wikipedia, where it states that the Strongest Shield isn't exactly as I just described it. I'll gladly rebuke my comments, but until then there really isn't any prerequisites to claim it as Eric stated, other than having RnY; which means anyone can legitimately claim it.

"He would, however, become renowned for his extraordinary level of durability, endurance, and strength above all else, to the point where his body itself would become reputed as the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate).[11]"
"A's most impressive and renowned trait was his extremely durable body, earning the name, the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate)"
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/A_(Third_Raikage)

It's literally just a nickname for his bod. It's not a technique at all.
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JayJay

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 01:36:26 am »

Strongest Shield = Raiton no Yoroi + Third Raikage's durability. (Hell Stab is a different matter all together, but the parent technique happens to be RnY.)

According to rules at the narutoprofile wikipedia, you can't claim elemental techniques yet we already have few techniques listed in there that happen to be elemental related; this technique included.

Unless someone can show me a citation from the original naruto wikipedia, where it states that the Strongest Shield isn't exactly as I just described it. I'll gladly rebuke my comments, but until then there really isn't any prerequisites to claim it as Eric stated, other than having RnY; which means anyone can legitimately claim it.

"Like his son, A possessed high taijutsu prowess, being able to defeat several shinobi in one move.[16] He also had enormous speed and strength, being able to dodge Naruto's extremely fast Wind Release: Rasenshuriken and punch a rubber ball several metres away.[17][18] A's most impressive and renowned trait was his extremely durable body, earning the name, the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate). With it, A could withstand nearly any type of technique,[11] and easily brush off attacks that actually damaged him, even those of Wind Release.[19][20] He could even survive being transported by the life-risking Heavenly Transfer Technique, a feat replicated by few individuals.[21] Ultimately, the only attack strong enough to seriously injure him was his own, resulting in the scar on his chest."

This excerpt makes no mention of the RNY being responsible for his Strongest Shield. This isn't a technique, per se, it's simply the state of one's body. In this one:

"... Like his son, A can utilise the Lightning Release Chakra Mode to further augment his already renowned physical prowess and taijutsu."

It's stated here, that the RNY simply further augments the already renowned physical prowess. Meaning, it's more of constant, grueling, quite severe training regime... all physical.

I'm not sure who the first person, on SL, was the one to possess the Strongest Shield, but Athos is infamous in having it. When one thinks of the Strongest Shield, they think of Athos, considering the history.

I figured it was kind of like a yang release earth spear kind of deal. It's not regenerative and has no elemental weaknesses per say, but its strength is not infinite and it would be difficult to summon things (unless the player has a way to draw blood in another way). It's main strength is against hard fist and wide area blows, while it seems to be weaker to very strong, precise, pinpoint strikes (hell's stab one finger nukite). It is not a KG in the most general sense because the 4th Raikage did not inherent it, unless its recessive.

To my knowledge, there are no rites required to claim it.


Like Eric said, wild physical attacks are next to useless against it, if extreme strength isn't behind it. Now, if that strength is present, then it'll take time to wear down the defense of the Strongest Shield, comparing it to the Man of Steel's defense. (I could be wrong about this though.) Those of the Hyugan variety, internal attacks, are the best way to combat someone with the Strongest Shield. I'm not sure of the other fingers, but the One-Finger Hell Stab definitely works. Thinking of the Earth Spear, I'm not sure how comparable the two of them are, but I would say Strongest Shield > Kaguya Bone Armor > Earth Spear, because the former is passive while the latter two needs to be activated. But, saying that there are no rites to claim it could be false.

"A inherited his father's immense durability, having survived being transported by Mabui's Heavenly Transfer Technique unharmed.[32] His pain tolerance is high as well, as he neither flinched from having his left arm burned by Amaterasu, nor from cutting it off himself.[33]"

From this excerpt, we learn that the Fourth Raikage inherited his father's immense durability. So it could have something to do with the DNA, perhaps the skin has a better chance of growing tougher through the training. I would say it's through the DNA since, Might Guy nor Rock Lee, have not been stated as having something called a Strongest Shield, despite their own physical training.

So, in my opinion, one would need to, at the very least, seek Athos for training to acquire the Strongest Shield. His sons, Ryoji and Tobias have the Strongest Shield, something that could easily be answered through the DNA route. Keito and Jay has the Strongest Shield, that could be explained through Athos training them personally to force their skin to achieve the level of durability needed to be referred to as a Strongest Shield. (Keito from being such a close homie and Jay from being a student.)

While Buffs like RNY, Sage Mode and the like can increase the effectiveness of one's Strongest Shield, they are not responsible for it's development or individual strength.

But, that's just a theory.. A Shinobi Theory, thanks for watching. Perhaps, Athos can add anything to this, since he's the one that had it the longest... cause he's old... like really old.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 01:40:00 am »

Unless someone can show me a citation from the original naruto wikipedia, where it states that the Strongest Shield isn't exactly as I just described it. I'll gladly rebuke my comments, but until then there really isn't any prerequisites to claim it as Eric stated, other than having RnY; which means anyone can legitimately claim it.

"He would, however, become renowned for his extraordinary level of durability, endurance, and strength above all else, to the point where his body itself would become reputed as the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate).[11]"
"A's most impressive and renowned trait was his extremely durable body, earning the name, the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate)"
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/A_(Third_Raikage)

It's literally just a nickname for his bod. It's not a technique at all.

They've made it into a technique.
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Trev

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 02:29:16 am »

Unless someone can show me a citation from the original naruto wikipedia, where it states that the Strongest Shield isn't exactly as I just described it. I'll gladly rebuke my comments, but until then there really isn't any prerequisites to claim it as Eric stated, other than having RnY; which means anyone can legitimately claim it.

"He would, however, become renowned for his extraordinary level of durability, endurance, and strength above all else, to the point where his body itself would become reputed as the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate).[11]"
"A's most impressive and renowned trait was his extremely durable body, earning the name, the "strongest shield" (最強の盾, saikyō no tate)"
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/A_(Third_Raikage)

It's literally just a nickname for his bod. It's not a technique at all.

They've made it into a technique.

Did they though? I could have sworn a page for strongest shield actually use to exist on the wiki. They could have been going on that, then the people at the wiki took the page down either because of databook info or simply because they felt like it >>  Although I could be wrong, but I could have sworn the wiki use to think it was a tech.

As for obtaining it, if the people on SL want to say it's a tech, you find someone that has it and learn it? Although if it is DNA based, you shouldn't be able to learn it. If it's not a tech, literally everyone can claim it.

So idk, the people with strongest shield should maybe come together and set some ground rules, or something.
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Rusaku

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 02:37:33 am »

Saying it's a technique is like saying "Running fast is a technique"  :roll:

It's a trait that was claimed by a group of individuals. It's not an elemental technique and it's not a KG, so there is nothing saying that it cannot be claimed. Treat it like you would a tool. Multiple people can have claims to a single tool, but that does not mean it's available to the world.
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Camel

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 02:49:22 am »

However if you look at the page for Third Raikage, RnY is listed under his repertoire of techniques. Hell Stab One-Finger Nukite is considered his "strongest spear", right? Well the parent technique listed under that is RnY, mind explaining how something is completely different than his "strongest shield"? So naturally the parent technique would enhanced his  incredible durability earned through selective breeding; like how his son has it.

Yet no one provided a citation for the technique itself, just listed information from the page of the Third Raikage. If the technique itself existed, wouldn't a page exist on the original wikipedia? From looking back at the discussions on the wikipedia, the page was deleted on account that it's a trait earned through the Third Raikage. Which in this case, like Trev said. You can't claim traits, when it's not a technique itself. I can literally go claim it without having to jump through hoops with Athos.

Jay made no sense whatsoever, because he said I would have to go learn it from Athos, but from further reviewing it, I found out that it is passed on selectively through his children. How the hell do I learn a trait, when it cannot be taught? These traits are usually passed on through selective breeding and unless I make a child that is related to the original user of that trait, I have no chance of gaining this trait on any of the characters that I own. (No offense, Jay. This is my opinion on this matter.)

Provide me a wikipedia page that is from the actual source and is named Strongest Shield, and I'll recuse myself from this thread. If nothing can be found, then some sort of guidelines must be made. Otherwise, you'll give those incentive to basically train themselves until their durability is on par with the description of the "strongest shield" and by then it can be claimed by anyone that went through the aforementioned process.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 03:29:51 am by Camel »
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Timothy

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 04:24:49 am »

So learn Raiton no Yoroi and land a hellstab, even Athos has to go ouch?
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Eric

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 05:53:44 am »

So learn Raiton no Yoroi and land a hellstab, even Athos has to go ouch?

Presuming he does not seal you on touch, then maybe.  :P
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Chinote

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 06:59:07 am »

However if you look at the page for Third Raikage, RnY is listed under his repertoire of techniques. Hell Stab One-Finger Nukite is considered his "strongest spear", right? Well the parent technique listed under that is RnY, mind explaining how something is completely different than his "strongest shield"? So naturally the parent technique would enhanced his  incredible durability earned through selective breeding; like how his son has it.
Because no can just punch or kick hard enough to outclass jutsu without power ups. Both are still just nicknames, not techniques themselves. The difference is that the spear is an actual technique, the shield isn't. You don't activate or use your skin. It just is.

Yet no one provided a citation for the technique itself, just listed information from the page of the Third Raikage. If the technique itself existed, wouldn't a page exist on the original wikipedia?
Because it's not one. It's literally just a nickname his skin owns.

From looking back at the discussions on the wikipedia, the page was deleted on account that it's a trait earned through the Third Raikage. Which in this case, like Trev said. You can't claim traits, when it's not a technique itself. I can literally go claim it without having to jump through hoops with Athos.

I don't understand what you don't get if you can make this deduction.

Saying it's a technique is like saying "Running fast is a technique"  :roll:
This is 100% accurate.

"The Yellow Flash" is not a technique. It's a nickname he got for using a technique. That's what the Spear is. The Shield is similar, but rather than named for a technique, it's named for a physical trait.
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JayJay

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 10:39:45 am »

However if you look at the page for Third Raikage, RnY is listed under his repertoire of techniques. Hell Stab One-Finger Nukite is considered his "strongest spear", right? Well the parent technique listed under that is RnY, mind explaining how something is completely different than his "strongest shield"? So naturally the parent technique would enhanced his  incredible durability earned through selective breeding; like how his son has it.
Because no can just punch or kick hard enough to outclass jutsu without power ups. Both are still just nicknames, not techniques themselves. The difference is that the spear is an actual technique, the shield isn't. You don't activate or use your skin. It just is.

Yet no one provided a citation for the technique itself, just listed information from the page of the Third Raikage. If the technique itself existed, wouldn't a page exist on the original wikipedia?
Because it's not one. It's literally just a nickname his skin owns.

From looking back at the discussions on the wikipedia, the page was deleted on account that it's a trait earned through the Third Raikage. Which in this case, like Trev said. You can't claim traits, when it's not a technique itself. I can literally go claim it without having to jump through hoops with Athos.

I don't understand what you don't get if you can make this deduction.

Saying it's a technique is like saying "Running fast is a technique"  :roll:
This is 100% accurate.

"The Yellow Flash" is not a technique. It's a nickname he got for using a technique. That's what the Spear is. The Shield is similar, but rather than named for a technique, it's named for a physical trait.

+1
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Athos

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Re: Defining Strongest Shield
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 10:50:53 am »

On SL I say that while it is a trait, and some people can claim to have it naturally, you can also train your body to the same level. I was claiming that specifically so anyone could use it, I'm not trying to make it impossible for anyone to get. As for the validity of the claim itself you can talk to Zojin. She was the one who originally claimed it, it's been on the list for years and no one has disputed it.

As for what it is in effect, canonically, I assume it is the entire body. I disagree that it is just the skin since it is described as A's body being highly durable, not just his skin. Also their durability was used to survive being transported by the Heavenly Transfer Technique, which literally moves them at the speed of light, roughly 300,000 KM a second. If it was just the skin that would just make their innards pulped against their indestructible skin. So again, speaking just in regards to canon, it has to be their entire body.

Whether that needs to be changed to make it fair for SL is something we can discuss.

As for what it is comparable to yeah I'd say at least Kaguya bones. I think Kaguya gets a little underrepresented these days because, like Shadow brought up in the FFA, the defense it provides you is STUPID HIGH.

"Kimimaro used this ability to wield his bones as weapons in battle, and could use them in the form of taijutsu attacks (which he called dances) to give him a variety of abilities, as well as grant him a near-invincible defence, able to withstand from being crushed by being buried under 200 metres of compressed sand, and most of the impact from even a chakra-enhanced blade, and cut through regular shuriken."

The compressed sand is the nonsensical part as 200 meters is 600 feet. That's a building. Like an entire building. 10 feet is about one story tall so that's a 60 story building. And they're talking about this jutsu.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sand_Waterfall_Imperial_Funeral

Which has the dimensions of a building too and crushes down on you multiple times. This basically means Kaguya should be completely immune to any blunt force damage. I'd argue that they could even survive the physical force (just the physical force) of a bijuu bomb explosion, and if they were in Sage Mode then no question that they could. If people want to agree Strongest Shield is stronger than that too then I am super game for it. :D
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