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Author Topic: Human Puppets  (Read 659 times)

Rusaku

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Human Puppets
« on: March 15, 2017, 08:28:12 pm »

So this one has been interesting me for a while, but I never really felt the need to address it until now. What exactly are the rules regarding Human Puppets?

The wikia says it grants you access to their KG, but that might not translate over to SL so well considering we stack like 5 or 6 KG a piece. What if I have a Puppet with Sharingan/Mokuton/Rinnegan while I myself have Byakugan/Ice/Sage mode? Do I still get access to those extra KG? Am I banned from using that puppet? It also says that Human puppets retain their use of Chakra. Is that implying that the puppet retains the chakra pool it had in life? Am I effectively doubling my chakra pool this way?

Then I must ask what is required to make a human puppet? I made one years ago named King that was relevant to that character's story, but ultimately it was an NPC made human puppet. I know the character Belphegor claims to have a human puppet of his brother, that allows him to use Ice release. Though as far as Iím aware the puppet is also created from an NPC relevant to his story. So what is the ruling on that?

Right off the bat I think anything like Gates or RNY should be out of the question, considering the muscles are replaced so there would be nothing to enhance. Any visual benefits from KG should be lost such as high speed tracking, but Susanoo and Amaterasu and things like that could still be applied. Then maybe if you already claim max KG, then any KG that the puppet does not share with you is void, but if you donít then you can use them? Though that begs the question of if the Puppet can use all the techniques it knew in life, or just those associated with itís KG. Iím honestly not sure what all should be done to it.
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Athos

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 08:35:39 pm »

I'm wondering if you read the Human Puppet page or not since the very first rule is.

"Each human puppet may only contain one of the Kekkei Genkai they had in their lifetime, Kekkei Tōta may not be possessed. They cannot use any other techniques they possessed in their lifetime, though can instead be equipped (and modified) with tools utilizable by ordinary puppets (and controllers for their Kekkei Genkai)."

That being said those rules are in no way official, Yumei just made them up for his Sasori character. Though I think they're pretty ok.

Edit: The aforementioned page for reference

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Human_Puppet
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 08:36:41 pm by Athos »
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Rusaku

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 08:46:02 pm »

I'm wondering if you read the Human Puppet page or not since the very first rule is.

"Each human puppet may only contain one of the Kekkei Genkai they had in their lifetime, Kekkei Tōta may not be possessed. They cannot use any other techniques they possessed in their lifetime, though can instead be equipped (and modified) with tools utilizable by ordinary puppets (and controllers for their Kekkei Genkai)."

That being said those rules are in no way official, Yumei just made them up for his Sasori character. Though I think they're pretty ok.

Edit: The aforementioned page for reference

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Human_Puppet

Lol, I didn't know there was a page already on our Wikia for it. I was just reading the official page and made a topic. I mean, those rules seem fair enough, but they don't answer all my questions. Like I mentioned, you made an NPC human puppet with Ice. What's to stop me from making an NPC human puppet with Rinnegan while Rusaku uses Tenseigan? Why can't you use regular puppets and Human puppets at the same time? If genetically altered individuals can't be made into Human puppets, what's the point of trying to make any PC a puppet, considering a majority of them are genetically altered to even have more than one KG? Why can't KT be used? There is still discussion to be had here me thinks.   
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Athos

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 08:57:05 pm »

Oh you said wiki and I assumed you meant our wiki. So one at a time.

What's to stop me from making an NPC human puppet with Rinnegan while Rusaku uses Tenseigan?

Nothing I guess? We could say puppets cant use any Sage Art KG.

Why can't you use regular puppets and Human puppets at the same time?

Because. I don't know I don't agree that that's a nerf that's needed.

If genetically altered individuals can't be made into Human puppets, what's the point of trying to make any PC a puppet, considering a majority of them are genetically altered to even have more than one KG?

The wiki is referencing Yumei's dragon humans, not people with implants. Surgical implantation is not exactly the same thing as altering someone's DNA to turn them into Dragon Man.

Why can't KT be used?

Same reason you wouldn't want them to have Rinnegan I suppose.
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Rusaku

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 09:12:53 pm »

Oh you said wiki and I assumed you meant our wiki. So one at a time.

What's to stop me from making an NPC human puppet with Rinnegan while Rusaku uses Tenseigan?

Nothing I guess? We could say puppets cant use any Sage Art KG.

Why can't you use regular puppets and Human puppets at the same time?

Because. I don't know I don't agree that that's a nerf that's needed.

If genetically altered individuals can't be made into Human puppets, what's the point of trying to make any PC a puppet, considering a majority of them are genetically altered to even have more than one KG?

The wiki is referencing Yumei's dragon humans, not people with implants. Surgical implantation is not exactly the same thing as altering someone's DNA to turn them into Dragon Man.

Why can't KT be used?

Same reason you wouldn't want them to have Rinnegan I suppose.

The Dragon Human thing seemed more of an example for people to look at when considering a Human puppet. Kinda like saying "You can't have two KG that conflict with SL's KG system; Such as Having Byakugan and Sharingan at the same time." You're not exclusively voiding that combination of Sharingan and Byakugan, instead providing an example of what would be voided, if I'm making sense.

I'm thinking the best possible nerfs would be No sage art KG. No technique that directly affects the host body such as gates or RNY (Maybe Kaguya bone considering it's just the organs that are removed apparently). If a KT is to be used, all other KG must be given up. 1 KG/KT per puppet.

I'm not a huge fan of having NPC's be human puppets, but I'm not entirely against it either. Obviously it's going to be difficult to get a PC human puppet at all, so there has to be some medium. Maybe NPC puppets can't use a KT at all.

As of right now my only other question is the chakra pool situation. The official page says they retain their use of chakra. Am I getting a second pool to draw from, or are they sapping away at my own? Seems kinda ambiguous to me when reading it.
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Trev

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 12:44:45 am »

If I were to give it nerfs I'd say the puppets can only

Use their regular techniques and only one elemental kg (which is shown in the manga with iron release.) No dojutsu, no gates, no Kaguya, not KT and only one. Maybe allow hiden too, although some couldn't be used in practical senses like Ino's.

No npc human puppets. Just like with Edo, shouldn't be allowed. Any current npc puppet gets fathered in, but still has to follow the same rules.

Their chakra pool can't be replenished (in battle)

Their action go towards your action pool just like a biju summon or Edo Tensei, you don't get free moves.

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Eric

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 01:01:37 am »


...Their action go towards your action pool just like a biju summon or Edo Tensei, you don't get free moves.

If nothing else, this.
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Athos

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 12:23:10 pm »


...Their action go towards your action pool just like a biju summon or Edo Tensei, you don't get free moves.

If nothing else, this.

I mean they're inanimate objects I don't think that was ever in question.
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Timothy

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 05:34:24 pm »

I'm actually surprised human puppets didn't become that big of a thing given how legitimately useful they could be even with limited kekkei genkai. A human puppet made from a PC who had Mokuton mastery, even say Byakugan would be a major boon to a user. Though admittedly there's the question of would you gain the sensory information from their eyes using chakra strings or not. I think odds are in favor of it. If you're creative enough, you don't need OP puppets with multiple KG unless you obtain say an actual PC doujutsu implant. Just my personal opinion.
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Asadi

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 06:55:26 pm »

You forget Suna has/had a puppet squad. There have been a few crop up there.
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Chinote

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 10:06:19 pm »

You forget Suna has/had a puppet squad. There have been a few crop up there.
Has.
Conker's still conkin' every now and then. Dunno if he has human puppets though.

I know MasterOrochimaru did, but I don't think he's been around in like.. 7-8 years.
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Eric

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 12:23:08 am »

... Though admittedly there's the question of would you gain the sensory information from their eyes using chakra strings or not. I think odds are in favor of it...

I disagree, the canon chakra strings definitely don't provide that kind of information to the user. Such a feat would require a custom kind of connection, and even then that goes beyond just manipulating the puppet. That's becoming one with the puppet in a sense.
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Athos

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 01:00:31 am »

... Though admittedly there's the question of would you gain the sensory information from their eyes using chakra strings or not. I think odds are in favor of it...

I disagree, the canon chakra strings definitely don't provide that kind of information to the user. Such a feat would require a custom kind of connection, and even then that goes beyond just manipulating the puppet. That's becoming one with the puppet in a sense.

I mean it is basically what Gaara does.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Third_Eye

So I don't see why you couldn't make a jutsu that lets you see through the eyes of your puppet.
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Eric

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 03:16:12 am »

... Though admittedly there's the question of would you gain the sensory information from their eyes using chakra strings or not. I think odds are in favor of it...

I disagree, the canon chakra strings definitely don't provide that kind of information to the user. Such a feat would require a custom kind of connection, and even then that goes beyond just manipulating the puppet. That's becoming one with the puppet in a sense.

I mean it is basically what Gaara does.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Third_Eye

So I don't see why you couldn't make a jutsu that lets you see through the eyes of your puppet.

The canon jutsu is not connected via chakra strings, and as I said, Gaara becomes one with the eye in a sense. He is required to close one of his own eyes in order to utilize the technique, a limitation that custom variants are not likely to keep.
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Athos

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Re: Human Puppets
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 06:32:10 am »

... Though admittedly there's the question of would you gain the sensory information from their eyes using chakra strings or not. I think odds are in favor of it...

I disagree, the canon chakra strings definitely don't provide that kind of information to the user. Such a feat would require a custom kind of connection, and even then that goes beyond just manipulating the puppet. That's becoming one with the puppet in a sense.

I mean it is basically what Gaara does.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Third_Eye

So I don't see why you couldn't make a jutsu that lets you see through the eyes of your puppet.

The canon jutsu is not connected via chakra strings, and as I said, Gaara becomes one with the eye in a sense. He is required to close one of his own eyes in order to utilize the technique, a limitation that custom variants are not likely to keep.

It's hardly an overpowered ability either way, my point was similar things exist.
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