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Author Topic: IC Rules 2 (discussion)  (Read 10910 times)

Gyu~ru~ru

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2017, 09:39:29 AM »

I'd like to start by apologizing for having more questions that actual input as I've removed myself from RP for many years and have just rejoined it recently.
1) This rule only applies to IC Bijuu hunts and not normal sparring in the zones, right?

2) IC Bijuu hunts are like story driven in-character hunts for Bijuu that if you lose a limb or die during the fight, it's permanent?

3) BGM *laughs* I can't help but think of background music when I see those letters.

Now about the rules;
Quote
If a Hunter or Support fails to post on time, then their character is, at the determination of the judge, is considered captured, killed, considered having fled from battle, etc. If the Hunted fails to post on time, then they will either be considered captured, beast extracted, beast stolen, etc.
This feels unimmersive for something that is IC. Can a player choose to treat it as the opponent missed a turn, and continue with their action with auto-hit allowed. I'll give an example below:

Gyururu tries to surround Tomi with a her blood to form a sphere around him.
(96 hours have gone by)
Gyururu traps Tomi inside a sphere of blood and proceed to implode him, crushing him with extreme pressure.
(96 hours have gone by)
Gyururu watches as Tomi's crushed body falls onto the ground with a "thump" and walks over to him in order to extract his Bijuu.
(96 hours have gone by)
Gyururu finishes extracting the Bijuu. Due to the lack of response from Tomi, she assumes that he is dead and leaves the area.

About the order and flow;
Quote
- If, in the course of RP that is not a Biju Hunt, that those who would fall under the category of Hunted are engaged by those wishing to attain the tailed beast, then these restrictions do not apply unless the RPers wish to abide by these restrictions. That means that the hunted may flee at any point, hunters do not have to OOCly announce their intentions to any party, there are no activity requirements for the RP (beyond other obligations, such as the overall biju activity rule), etc.
I am confused. First there was a bunch of rules about IC Bijuu hunt, but if a Hunted is defeated in regular RP and his/her opponent suddenly decide that, "Oh, I want that Bijuu", then they can just take it without going through all the rules of the Bijuu hunt? So...
1) What is a Bijuu hunt?
2) What is stopping players from using this exception as a loop hole to ignore the IC rules by taking Bijuu from the hunted during "non-bijuu hunt" RP?

@ Terumi
Quote
....I think it should be a standardized 3 actions per turn, shared. No increasing the number despite what clones, summons, fissions, Paths, etc. are brought into play or what the party entirety agrees to.
I believe clones, summons, fissions, paths, etc should have their own action per turn. It simulate a situation where your opponent tries to overwhelm you by creating clones, and summoning creatures or whatnot onto the battlefield. It feels kinda awkward when you run out of action and can't do anything because your clones and summons used up your action. So you just stood where and watch while your minions do their thing?

But not this;
Quote
...if the player character does not use an action then it can be transferred to the others.
As it would give the clones/summons too many actions per turn.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 09:43:22 AM by Gyu~ru~ru »
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Timothy

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2017, 06:11:04 PM »

I still suggest my idea that if one has an extra body, character, shadow clone, etc they get +1 to the overall action limit which the main character can't use and the extra can only use up to 3 action points of the pool themselves.



And oiy, Gyururu no becoming a widow just yet Dx
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Eric

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2017, 07:17:22 PM »

I disagree that general movement and speaking count against one's action total. Only techniques and set-ups for techniques should be that count.

Other than that, I agree with most everything else with a few minor tweaks...

....there should be no "Neutral Party" as that's just begging for a disaster to occur. It should be the objective of the Hunter to isolate the Hunted in order to avoid undue calamity from the ensuing fight. Otherwise, the "Neutral" would be forced to intervene:

I.E. The two pick a fight in a village. Some civilians get hurt. Now the village has viable, IC reason to intervene that would supersede these IC rules.

It should be added in that the Hunter is to get the Hunted away from civilization, if that is where the Hunted is to be found.


....I think it should be a standardized 3 actions per turn, shared. No increasing the number despite what clones, summons, fissions, Paths, etc. are brought into play or what the party entirety agrees to.


....If there is going to be a "Support" role, then that needs to be limited to 1 support total per person. So 1 for the Hunter and 1 for the Hunted. Period. This could be amended at a later time when RP is able to deal with larger numbers and the players are more active, but for now, keep it limited to this.


[1] In context RP does not exist in a bubble. "Neutrals" exist because there is more than just the fight to think about here. "Neutrals" are also gatekeepers, informants, chatters, etc. that are not on either side of the table, but are still player characters (IE, anyone who denies biju existence is a neutral). The RP is pre-planned and the plan is expected to be stuck with, so a village battle would be fairly unlikely to happen unless it is intended, in which case the villagers are still "neutrals" and fall under these rules. More likely than not though, if a fight is the endgoal, the two will be unlikely to agree to fighting on turf with a large amount of "neutrals" who are more likely to side with one or the other.

I must stress, a zone fight is not the only way that the Hunted may be beaten in this RP, even if it is the most conventional way. The intent is to try to maintain some level of flexibility in the most important part of the Hunt, the planning stage.

[2] That's how I generally RP my actions, but RPing it that way makes outnumbering your opponent meaningless unless you outnumber said opponent with other player characters. A naruto-esque character (pre six paths) who was a shadow clone whore would have no place here, nor a Six Paths of Pain-esque character.

[3] Though not worded the best, the player cap you suggest is already in place. Four players, Hunted, Hunter, 2 Support, and BGM poster.

I'd like to start by apologizing for having more questions that actual input as I've removed myself from RP for many years and have just rejoined it recently.
1) This rule only applies to IC Bijuu hunts and not normal sparring in the zones, right?

2) IC Bijuu hunts are like story driven in-character hunts for Bijuu that if you lose a limb or die during the fight, it's permanent?

3) BGM *laughs* I can't help but think of background music when I see those letters.

Now about the rules;
Quote
If a Hunter or Support fails to post on time, then their character is, at the determination of the judge, is considered captured, killed, considered having fled from battle, etc. If the Hunted fails to post on time, then they will either be considered captured, beast extracted, beast stolen, etc.
This feels unimmersive for something that is IC. Can a player choose to treat it as the opponent missed a turn, and continue with their action with auto-hit allowed. I'll give an example below:

Gyururu tries to surround Tomi with a her blood to form a sphere around him.
(96 hours have gone by)
Gyururu traps Tomi inside a sphere of blood and proceed to implode him, crushing him with extreme pressure.
(96 hours have gone by)
Gyururu watches as Tomi's crushed body falls onto the ground with a "thump" and walks over to him in order to extract his Bijuu.
(96 hours have gone by)
Gyururu finishes extracting the Bijuu. Due to the lack of response from Tomi, she assumes that he is dead and leaves the area.


[4] Yes, these rules only apply to Biju Hunts, though many of them are taken from how RP is normally done anyways.

[5] Yes, it's IC, so it is "permanent" if you don't have a way to regenerate it or replace it. Character death, however, I felt should be a little more temporary (like, revived after x amount of weeks or something by Shinigami) but was not sure how to implement such a thing.

[6] That, was not intended, but could be a point of confusion among newer players. Any suggetions for changing the acronym?

[7] That is already implemented, but something that the judge would determine, not the player fighting the opponent would decide. The judge would decide the fate of said character, including but not exclusively the possibility of autohit.

Quote
About the order and flow;
Quote

    - If, in the course of RP that is not a Biju Hunt, that those who would fall under the category of Hunted are engaged by those wishing to attain the tailed beast, then these restrictions do not apply unless the RPers wish to abide by these restrictions. That means that the hunted may flee at any point, hunters do not have to OOCly announce their intentions to any party, there are no activity requirements for the RP (beyond other obligations, such as the overall biju activity rule), etc.

I am confused. First there was a bunch of rules about IC Bijuu hunt, but if a Hunted is defeated in regular RP and his/her opponent suddenly decide that, "Oh, I want that Bijuu", then they can just take it without going through all the rules of the Bijuu hunt? So...
1) What is a Bijuu hunt?
2) What is stopping players from using this exception as a loop hole to ignore the IC rules by taking Bijuu from the hunted during "non-bijuu hunt" RP?


[8] As I mentioned with Athos, that was added as insurance for what Jay pointed out would be really "dull" RP following these rules. If, outside of a formal Biju Hunt Event, two players can come together and work out a RP completely on their own terms, I don't see why they should be restricted here. Yes, if someone comes up and jumps a guy in the Hokage Mansion Uetto style some might would cry foul and that might cause some issues, but is that not IC RP? And would that essentially grant the jinchurikii/summoner immunity from losing their beast in regular RPs if only this formal method is recognized and acknowledged? The regular RP stream is pretty flawed, but if this were to be voted in on the 5th, I don't want it to be the only way to do a biju IC hunt legitimately until it is fully fleshed out, despite my thoughts on the matter back on the 2nd of March.

[9] A Biju Hunt is an organized RP event between a jinchurikii/summoner meditated by a judge and gamemastered by an appointed player. That is the barebones definition of it without all the fancy stuff I normally like to add when I am dodging math homework.

[10] At the moment, nothing, because it's not a loophole. It is wholly intended that if someone can actually conduct a biju hunt RP, properly (as defined by general RP rules, however vague they are at times) then they are free to do so. At least such is my current belief. Again, see [8] on that bit.

===================================


Summary of my reactions:

* It seems like changing up the way action limits work is a favored thought. How much of a change, whether to make it a static 3 or slightly variable is still up in the air. Seems clear though that so far I'm alone in wanting talking to count as an action, even if it's alot of talking.

* What to do with the neutrals, and how they factor into this whole thing beyond side characters in this particular set of RP.

*Making these the IC rules for biju hunting period. I'll wait for replies to my replies on that matter before making any conclusions of my own.

* Wording. The language here and there needs to be cleared up to prevent confusion and such.
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Dart Terumī

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2017, 07:47:03 PM »

Quoting would have been too long and I just don't have to capability to separate it all out on my phone. Forgive me, ahem.


I am aware of what you meant by "Neutrals" and that there would be other ways of winning the bijū RP.....but if it is to turn into a fight (as I'm sure 90% of this route would become), then a clause needs to be added that ensures there is no collateral damage, i.e., take the fight to a zone. Because that:

A) Frees up whatever main board is being used for the village to use;
B) Reduces the chance of other players from jumping in and disrupting the entire setup.


If this match (of whatever sort) is going to be a "setup", then that needs to be included. Otherwise, the RP has the potential to pull in an entire village worth of active players and there is nothing in these "IC Rules" to prevent that. You're wanting to make these "rules" to allow structure to be had to the Hunt, but you cannot eliminate all variables because it will be IC......unless you make it a strict stipulation that fighting in a village for the bijū is forbidden.

That way, if either the Hunter or the Hunted attempts to make such a drastic/desperate move while in the village, it would be one more east way to regulate the entire ordeal.

I don't care if it is "unlikely" to be agreed upon.
It needs to be set in stone.




As for outnumbering your opponent, we got rid of such a feat long ago when people all had infinite chakra and can make a 1000 clones with a snap of their fingers. Even now, it's not regulated. Adding another action per clone, summon, fission, path, is just plain silly. 3 total, with whatever you summon/split/use sharing from that pool.
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Hazama

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2017, 07:49:16 PM »

Alright, discussions! :D

@Eric
1. Alright, I get that. Though, like Dart says, it is weird  to have talking count as an action but for an IC event, if someone has a paragraph of them talking or planning, or even close to that, then I could actually see the logic in it counting as an action. Because otherwise, while someone is talking, then the other people are just standing there, or they can try to interrupt it come their next turn. But if you use an action point for the planning and conversation, it actually protects you from being stopped while talking because then it'd be a retro-post o.o

2. I was thinking that maybe how a BGM is doing would be on the judge(s) to decide. Like, if they do need to be replaced for whatever reason, the player can bring it up to a judge as well. But just in case, I think we should put up a limit of how many times players can kick a judge or a BGM. And obviously, following the OOC Rules, I think that number should be one for each situation, and those numbers are shared among team-members. So if Eric and I are the hunted, then we only have one time to kick a judge and one time to kick a BGM.

3. The way that I've been thinking Neutrals work are, when a Bijuu Hunt is about to start, they can join in. Because I thought that they were there to stop all the collateral damage, which is why the BGM was in charge of making a post every round detailing what the after effects of everyone's moves are o.o And what is happening on a wider scale.
3a. Wait, when you say the match is set up before any RPing happens, do you mean that before the people can even start hunting, it is decided and known who is going to be involved? That makes sense for the Hunted and Hunter, maybe, but for there to be a type of waiting list or something wouldn't be right. This type of thing is suppose to be first come, first serve. I think we talked about this in the previous topic, where if Jim is a Hunter and Jon is another Hunter, if one attacks first then their team goes first.
3b. The last couple sentences of my own post got me thinking, I don't think I see a cooldown anywhere and I know we mentioned one before. Because if I just beat Jim's team, without a cooldown, then Jon's team can literally just come up on their heels and fight me in a super weak state. Or something o.o And I think we said one week but then pointed out no one can actually get a RP done in one week, so I'd motion for at least two since the OOC rules are a one week cooldown after challenges and OOC challenges don't even stop you from RPing.

4. Alright, I get what you're saying, sorta. They would still follow the rules of the event but if we can pull it off without, then we can?... I Dunno if I like that idea, assuming that I am even understanding it properly xD

------
@Dart
I made mention of the speaking action in my number one post, I don't think your entirely wrong but this is also knew ground for all of us.

As for an action count, I think there should be at least an addition of one. Like, maybe not an action point for every clone created(think about that, even if they are splitting their chakra every time, it can still be up to three or four more actions) plus one for the summons. I wanted to say that maybe we should add an action for clones and one for summons, but assuming that each person on one team summons both, then it would take us up to 10 actions per team, or five actions per person. And that could get a bit crazy. I think just adding 1 AP for clones/summons works.

I also think Paths should be handled differently but last time I checked, the discussion about how paths worked died out before there was ever even a consensus. So while we are at it, I want to propose something for how paths should work. If someone even has paths to use(super rare, Tim and myself are the only ones I can think that actually use paths), then by even summoning them they are putting themselves at a slight disadvantage. Of course, they get more hands on the field but they are limiting their own amount of Dojutsu capabilities. So I think that we should let the person who uses the paths to get one addition action for every addition person they are fighting. So if there are two Hunters, they only get one addition turn, and if they are fighting three Hunters, they get two addition turns. And so on. Right now, pretty sure the rules limit us to 2v2s, so it would only add one addition action per turn until the rules get edited in the way, way distance future, if even at all.

-----
@Gyu

Just noticed that I basically talked in circles just to say what you did x.x So that was fun.

As for the not posting and then getting hit with the attack, think about what you just did. In a real fight, that would've taken one turn, MAYBE two, for you to do o.o I doubt you'd actually take four turns to carry all that out because then I don't think you'd ever win a fight. That's as simple as,"Gyu does several handsigns, spits out large amounts of blood and then preforms Blood Crushing Prism!" Or something o.o If anything, it's less unrealistic to give the person several chances to escape a move.

I honestly think that parts fine just because that is usually how most IC events go, especially when something is on the line. If you want to have the nerve and guts to try Hunting Bijuu, you also need to make sure you have the time to post as frequent as possible. o.o But that's just my opinion.
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Gyu~ru~ru

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2017, 01:41:52 AM »

I feel like this is less of a rule and more of a format for staged Bijuu Hunt event to follow but with a few custom rules, am I wrong? =3 <--- I hope the emote made it clear that I am not saying this in a negative tone
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Hazama

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2017, 01:52:16 AM »

I feel like this is less of a rule and more of a format for staged Bijuu Hunt event to follow but with a few custom rules, am I wrong? =3 <--- I hope the emote made it clear that I am not saying this in a negative tone



Huh, I never thought about it like that. And I'm not even being sarcastic... But yeah, I guess in essence. It is basically so that hunts can be carried out ICly, instead of a list of actual rules you need to follow like with OOC, if that makes sense.

Though, with you saying this, it actually makes me understand what Eric was saying before. About the RP aspect. Let's say Tim is after the Nine Tails, and so is... Jay. And they decide to team up, while they couldn't just come up to shake my hand without saying anything, they could convince me to step outside the village and then declare their intentions or something.

I think.

Just ignore me >>;
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Gyu~ru~ru

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2017, 07:57:27 AM »

Regarding talking using up an action; I don't think it should, because it kinda makes the fight more lively. Otherwise, it would just be a bunch of guys swinging their arms and kicking their feet. Unless the player is making long exchange between them and their Bijuu, I don't really see why it should use up an action. Especially if the action limit is a static 3 regardless of the presence of clones or summons.

@ BGM
Hunt GM. I think that's short enough. But it isn't really that big of a deal.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 11:21:52 AM by Gyu~ru~ru »
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Teostra

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2017, 11:05:58 AM »

Making talking take a turn would be pretty stupid. I figured that we all were okay with chatting during the fights for story purposes. Hell, I think I'm probably the only one that still does handsigns and calls out jutsus anyway =/
And I think summons should get one extra action a piece. Kind of makes it hard to play a puppeteer or inuzuka or something strange like that. Hell, besides ending on a source note, the OOC fights between Ray and me for whatever tails we were fighting over was a good example of that, I believe. My statues got an extra turn and so did his dinos. But I dont think that you should be able to recycle a turn from them (giving yourself 4 because a summon is stationary) because then everyone who has a clone chilling somewhere could start claiming like 7 actions or something.
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Iburi Ray

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 12:26:46 PM »

I've always been an advocate giving clones and summons their own action point otherwise their pointless. And really talking an action point? Then what's the point of rping if it goes that way? It will degrade  rp even more than what's already degraded.
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Eric

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2017, 03:32:25 AM »

Alright, here's the dealeo:

1) Looks like these are not going to go into effect on the 5th; unless someone votes yes real quick, which I doubt at this point.

2) To make sure headcounts are considered, some of these parts might need to be broken into separate thread and voted on separately, similar to the OOC rules. Only the most talked about bits though, such as actions in regards to clones/summons/paths and hard regulations on where fights may take place.

To go ahead and clarify though, all clones (so no matter how many you have, be it 1 or 100) currently would share a 1 action limit, or can borrow action limits from the player's character. As a result, making 100 clones would not grant 100 actions. Of course it is currently in question as to whether summons/clones can take actions from the player character.

3) Might as well strike down making talking an action in any fashion while we're here though.

4) What Gyu says about these being guidelines with a few custom rules is kind of true, since again this was heavily inspired by how RP is normally done anyways. However, I don't want to say "yes" to that dress because if we decide on making this the only way to do an IC hunt, then they are definitely not "guidelines" but rules in the traditional sense.

5) Making edits, will update post when done.


* Front post updated, color coding with green being talking points (let me know if I missed any) still being discussed and strikethrough being omitted in entirity (talking taking an action).
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 03:39:19 AM by Eric »
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Gyu~ru~ru

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 03:10:57 AM »

-------Player characters may use up to 3 actions, all clones of a single character share a 1 action limit, and all summons share a 2 action limit. If the player character does not use an action, then it can be transferred to summons or clones. Special rules such as the Edo and Biju summoning rules trump the action limit rule when applicable (for example, a biju summoner can only do 1 action according to the Biju Rules, and the biju can only do 2 actions).

--------- Because of the great length of time it may take for a RP of large amounts of people to get done, there can be no more than 4 participants (excluding judge and BGM) in an IC biju match at this time; a Hunted, a Hunter, and 2 Support for either side. This may seem very small, but arrangements should be made in the beginning to keep the player count small. Players are forbidden from having IC matches with themselves for any reason, and players that are discovered doing this will be permanently banned from all things biju indefinitely, their beast stripped and delivered to the Council.

- If, in the course of RP that is not a Biju Hunt, that those who would fall under the category of Hunted are engaged by those wishing to attain the tailed beast, then these restrictions do not apply unless the RPers wish to abide by these restrictions. That means that the hunted may flee at any point, hunters do not have to OOCly announce their intentions to any party, there are no activity requirements for the RP (beyond other obligations, such as the overall biju activity rule), etc. 
@ Action Points
This is my opinion; Player gets 3 action points. Any kind of summons (Bijuu, Mount, Edo Zombie, Paths etc) get and share 1 action point regardless of their numbers. Any kind of bunshin (Clones, Shadow Clones, Fission etc) get and share 1 action point regardless of their numbers. Having 2 different types of summons does not give each of them 1 AP, but a summon and a clone do get 1 AP each. The player cannot transfer unused AP to their summons or clones, but if they wish to use said summon/clone as their main fighter, they may swap AP with it. So instead of 3 AP, the player now only as 1 (mainly for avoiding attacks), and their summon/clone will have 3 AP. This effect will last until the the summon/clone leaves the battlefield or is defeated.

@ Support Character
What is the purpose of the support character exactly? Are they meant to join the battle? Are they there as a backup to take possession of the Bijuu just in case the hunter/hunted dies? In short, can you define or explain the roles of the Support characters to me? Thank you.

@ Non Bijuu Hunt
For the IC Rules to have any purpose, I think players should not be allowed to take a Jinchuuriki/summoner's Bijuu IC unless it's a Bijuu hunt.
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Timothy

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 10:02:36 AM »

Gyururu kinda stole my action point idea, while my own was ignored ;~;
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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2017, 04:46:47 AM »

Gyururu kinda stole my action point idea, while my own was ignored ;~;

I made an entire topic for Summon/Clone action counts and gave that exact rule as my personal preference. So I feel you.
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Eric

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Re: IC Rules 2 (discussion)
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2017, 02:44:09 AM »

Gyururu kinda stole my action point idea, while my own was ignored ;~;

Sorry about that Fourth, the idea seemed kind of similar to what was already in place regarding summons/clones so there was no special shoutout there. Gyu's idea seems to go along similar strains, but makes specifications regarding if multiple summons improves the benefits. Again though, I plan on making separate vote topics for the big ticket items first in order to ensure head counts are made for those, and then put up the revised IC rules draft for a 2nd voting round.

A support character provides aide to the Hunter-Hunted; they are not really meant to be able to claim the biju as a prize, but more specifically, they have little to no direct say in how the RP is setup. If a support character dies, then victory is not bestowed to either party, but if the Hunter/Hunted fall or is defeated in battle, for example, then victory goes to one party or the other. Additionally, Support can leave the RP without it being considered forfeit, depending on whether they are engaged in a battle or other "sticky" situation where the character can't just walk away without consequence.

Additionally, thinking of Dart here, I can see that some limitations on what sort of RPs can happen is a necessary measure, albeit, banning doing any sort of battles in villages means that biju + village battles will never again be a thing, which might be for the best. It also means though that the RP has to be structured around the host leaving the village with the hunter in a position to engage them, which may be a bit out of character for some characters. Still, better some OOC there than OOC fights between players.
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Anything you can think of I can't think of, let me know; that's how the sharing circle works.
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