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Author Topic: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)  (Read 17689 times)

Timothy

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 11:42:19 PM »

CoreShikaru aka Core's Opinion for similar reasons

I'm all for enforcing this rule. Not just because the whole one guy has all of em thing is OP as absolute hell, but because I know how it feels to be pretty let down. Here's an example of why this should be enforced. Go back to the days of yore, when you were just a wee little fanboy of Naruto, joining your first RP site, now imagine this...imagine that you joined the site with the plan of being an "official" jinchuuriki just like your boy Naruto, you want to make it publicly known that you are the Jinchuuriki of # Tails and try to do some RPs around that concept. The first few go well with really nobody questioning it (as they're all pretty much new people) until you decide to do your first official zone rp. You built your character up in pms completely around the fact you are a jinchuuriki, backstory and all...but you chose a poor opponent, someone who's been on the site longer and uses the wikia to base all their info on. They'd be well aware that someone else holds that # Tailed beast and is quite anal about following the self imposed rules of the site. So you and they are now doing your zone rp and you're well into it until the fact of your tailed beast comes up. Everything stops, halts completely and you're told that you cant do that. You can't do the one gimmick your entire character is based around and built up to be. You'd be devastated, your entire time of having fun and doing rps with new people has now been crushed by the "official" fact that ONE GUY has every Tailed Beast in his possession, preventing you from doing basically anything. Your entire time on the game has basically become invalid. You'd never wanna play again! You'd be so salty, angry that this ONE GUY isn't willing to give up the Tailed Beast you want and as it would stand you'd be too weak to even attempt to fight him for it! I'm still salty about it from when it happened to me when I just got started here.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 11:43:05 PM by Timothy »
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Eric

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2017, 12:09:57 AM »

One person being able to have more than one biju promotes the jinchurikii competing with each other; if you can only have one beast and you have the one you want, what is the point to fighting other jinchurikii and such? At least a little bit of competition, 2-3, is not too much to ask for.

Additionally, what extra do the beasts provide by default anyways? You can RP training with them and such, but competing over them in RP or otherwise is really all they're good for. Companionships, sure, but I can argue that my near character-long companion Rita is better than having a tailed beast that hates me, or is restricted to the confines of my body.

And even if one guy didn't have all the beasts, that player in CoreShikaru's statement would still be fresh out of luck becuase almost all of the beasts would be help by someone. Even if they weren't, you can't just up and claim yourself a jinchurikii nowadays anyways. This would not alleviate that problem like getting rid of the biju would. Oh wait, that would kind of mean that player's still out of luck.

It really is tough being around here. At least that player has Kirigakure.

I feel that there should be no limit at all, but am not out of making the limit higher than 1 or 2.
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Vail

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2017, 02:54:11 AM »

"You, Vail, with your ability to make robots, cyborgs, nano-machines and whatever else via the Asura Path in addition to the fact that you're probably the most academically intelligent person I've met on the site let you fight Bocchiere to a draw at his most powerful."

I'm not sure if that entire thing was meant as a complement, but the comment on my intelligence is greatly flattering, and appreciated. I still believe that you do intend to do right by the biju and attempt to make them mean something again, and you know that I'm willing to help you in that regard because I just want to see the roleplay on SL thrive.

Tomi, tell Logan that I'm interested in the kage summit idea he mentioned. We can talk about that more in PMs if he's interested.

I just think this all needs to start with us somehow removing the incentive of the super competitive players from just coming in and trashing the new kids on the block if (and hopefully when) we do distribute the biju to them. The IC rules will help with that, but those competitive types will need to stop being so tryhard about the tailed beasts (which honestly seems like a way to satiate their ego and desire to be "the best", because you can be plenty strong without biju - as I and numerous others have demonstrated).

I've been taking great care to modulate my interactions with other characters based on what I and the other person deem appropriate for the roleplay we're doing and how we want it to turn out. This not only gives us a chance to just have fun for a change, but for us to build each other up, especially if there is a gap in writing or strategic (on the combat side) skill between us.
We need to make roleplay on the site more about progression, fun, and character / worldbuilding instead of shitting on people with the new meta. If we can't do that, SL is never going to thrive like some of the other roleplay sites I've been on.

Roleplaygateway is the best example. That site has been around for as long as SL, maybe even longer, and it still has tons of traffic. Sure it's had its ups and downs over the years, but it's still going strong. We need that.

Annnnd enough of my bleeding heart speech. :P
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Iburi Ray

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2017, 04:51:13 AM »

I'm kinda down for a limit but nothing over oppressed. Don't get me wrong having a single person control them all is kinda crappy. Look at it this way if one person has all the candy and shown that he is good enough to keep other people from taking said candy, then why challenge for the candy when you know you can't beat him for said candy. However, should the holder of all the candy give out the candy to a few others, people you think you could take the candy from, then give it a shot. I also believe people here are too scared to challenge others because everyone kinda has this bypassed god mode and what not.
If we're looking for stimulating Rp here its gonna be difficult because, even if we don't admit it, we are a prideful egotistical group of people. And it shows with what we claim whether it be the fastest, strongest, or whatever it is. We have our claims and we expect them to be abided by but not really abide by another thus creating a whole cycle of stuck rp's that never FU*kING finish. *Ahem* But I will also say the number of actual RPing people has dropped a bit and the number of those who are just fiends of the sexual kind have risen so that also makes actual rp hard when it comes to diversity.
TL;DR: The beasts are not the only problem its the RPers as well.
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JayJay

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2017, 08:36:29 AM »

As a player, I can relate to being told that something wasn't possible when attempting to be into the official realm of SL. Because, there is two sects, Official and Casual. The amount of Official RPers have declined significantly since I've started. With them, the amount of those capable of holding the Biju have declined, even more so with those from the Free-for-all dropping out as well. With the Biju being capable of being held by one person, something I've been talking about since Bocc began his collecting, the people lose confidence in attempting to go for it. That could mean two things. The first being, they don't want to put in the work to get stronger, bide their time and then go for a beast. Or, they want to complain about how things are so they can have a chance. Both aren't bad, just the main factors of the situation. Though this could be apart of any situation. Things could be voided real quick, so certain things we do has a 50/50 chance of actually sticking.

And honestly, I'm sure this whole distribution thing Athos wanted to do, could have happened already.... if I had lost my Biju sooner. Cause he did have the rest >.> #C**kBlocker

Vail/Tobi, Keito, Tomi, Rus/Ryoji, and some other people has what it takes to go and get a beasts, but it's back to square one. Tobi don't want one, otherwise he would have went and got it. Like Athos said, he's a smart cookie, smarter than a lot of us, especially the idiot Jay. But I got a beast, soo... :p

And it's not like the challenger can't ask for voidings in the fight, so there shouldn't be so many excuses about why they aren't challenging. I'm perhaps too patient when I'm waiting for things, otherwise I would've challenged Bocc for a beast a long time ago. Didn't stop me from Challenging Athos though... so, what's yall excuse again?

But if we do enforce this reduction of ownership, 2-3 should be the highest it goes. But you still have to actually go out and put yo name in that hat. Athos can be beaten. Ray can be beaten. Jay can be beaten. Anybody can be beaten, you just gotta know how. Try, before you come to the forum like so, at the very least. Try, there's no harm in trying, just make it OOC, duh. You can cut the corners afterwards. So if we make it IC hunting, then it's gonna be a problem in attempting to challenge for a beast.

That's my 2 cents in this whole thing.
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Becquerel

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2017, 09:23:05 AM »

TL;DR: The beasts are not the only problem its the RPers as well.
I really agree with you, Ray. Personally, I've pretty much decided to stay away from the whole Bijuu scene besides the creation of the Mecha-Kurama to help protect Otogakure. But personally, I don't care if there's one owner for each one or one owner for all of them. I probably won't really interact seriously with either of them anyway :P But I do hope that the problem gets solved because listening to all of this stuff makes me want to stop playing sometimes lol
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Rusaku

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2017, 11:45:31 AM »

Even if he actually did distribute the beasts, that does not stop anyone from up and deciding that they want to go collecting again for whatever reason, and taking them from those low class fighters. Why not just set a maximum limit of 1-3 that way there is still a market for collecting beasts, but still encouraging a more diverse host list. Even if every Biju participant got 3 things to claim, that would still put 4 names on the list which is better than the three we have now. I honestly think 2 should be the limit, so there will be 6 names on the list at all times if everyone collects the max that they can.   
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Gyu~ru~ru

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2017, 01:43:11 PM »

As I stated in my 1st post, it's fine if the player holding multiple Bijuu is doing so with an event which redistribute those Bijuu in mind. But I believe that it should not be allowed to drag on indefinitely. As for challenging for a Bijuu, I prefer to finish any spar within 24 hours, or at least within the same week. Not everyone can hold their interest in a fight that drags on for weeks or even months. A busy player who possesses powers that rivals characters like Hishirama & Madara holding onto multiple Bijuu would kill any interest someone might have in trying to obtain a Bijuu from said character.

Rules can be made flexible. For example:
If you have one Bijuu, then there is no limit on how long you can hold onto it as long as you are active.
If you hold 2 Bijuu, then you can't keep both for more than 6 months, meaning you have to give one of them out within that time frame.
If you hold 3, then you can't keep them for more than 3 months.
If you hold 4, then you can't keep them for more than a month.
Naturally, giving out a Bijuu resets the time limit. Someone might abuse this by passing a Bijuu back & forth between themselves. If they are willing to put in the effort to RP the whole thing (with plot and sparring), then it's fine. But if they are simply passing it around by simply changing the name of who own this Bijuu now, then they should not be allowed to own more than 1 Bijuu at any given moment.

If you need to have all the Bijuu for an event, then a gamemaster should be involved, and the event should not take more than 3 months to be carried out with no strict time limit on when it should be concluded as long as it is not stalling.

The above are just examples that could make this situation better for everyone. Feel free to discuss on the time limit or make other suggestions.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 03:20:38 PM by Gyu~ru~ru »
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Eric

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2017, 06:17:46 PM »


...Rules can be made flexible. For example:
If you have one Bijuu, then there is no limit on how long you can hold onto it as long as you are active.
If you hold 2 Bijuu, then you can't keep both for more than 6 months, meaning you have to give one of them out within that time frame.
If you hold 3, then you can't keep them for more than 3 months.
If you hold 4, then you can't keep them for more than a month.
Naturally, giving out a Bijuu resets the time limit. Someone might abuse this by passing a Bijuu back & forth between themselves. If they are willing to put in the effort to RP the whole thing (with plot and sparring), then it's fine. But if they are simply passing it around by simply changing the name of who own this Bijuu now, then they should not be allowed to own more than 1 Bijuu at any given moment...

I understand that that is an example, but that is really more of an incentive to only have 1 beast per player. A step ladder where anyone with more than x amount of biju has to hand them over encourages not going over the limit, because I at least am not going to work for something that I have to just hand over at the end of the x amount of time.

To bring my reply towards the proposed root though, biju holding has been seen as a status symbol for a long time, of being either the best zoner or RPer; it has often shifted from the latter to the former since their inception, long before there were any biju rules (the days of Zenaku contrasted with the days of mid-late Bocchiere for example). When the involved parties stopped being able to RP a biju hunt without issues, IC methods were just outright scrapped, making it all about the zoning ability.

Then the fights started becoming bothersome and, with both avenues being more trouble than their worth, people started dropping off of that ladder as the best zoners by any means necessary took the beasts.

So, if we want the biju to still be about the best RPer/zoner whatever, a symbol of skill in some area, then artificial limits need to be less restraining than 1 or 2 beasts a person in my opinion.

If, however, there is a desire to make the biju just about avoiding monopolies, then 1 for 1 will get the job done nicely. Personally, I can go either way on this swing, but my preference is that we find something to replace the biju if we make the biju less of a symbol of strength/skill/what have you. Maybe we can make the position of "kage" more important again, as miniature game masters? Or daimyou? Something.
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Hazama

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2017, 06:58:28 PM »


...Rules can be made flexible. For example:
If you have one Bijuu, then there is no limit on how long you can hold onto it as long as you are active.
If you hold 2 Bijuu, then you can't keep both for more than 6 months, meaning you have to give one of them out within that time frame.
If you hold 3, then you can't keep them for more than 3 months.
If you hold 4, then you can't keep them for more than a month.
Naturally, giving out a Bijuu resets the time limit. Someone might abuse this by passing a Bijuu back & forth between themselves. If they are willing to put in the effort to RP the whole thing (with plot and sparring), then it's fine. But if they are simply passing it around by simply changing the name of who own this Bijuu now, then they should not be allowed to own more than 1 Bijuu at any given moment...

I understand that that is an example, but that is really more of an incentive to only have 1 beast per player. A step ladder where anyone with more than x amount of biju has to hand them over encourages not going over the limit, because I at least am not going to work for something that I have to just hand over at the end of the x amount of time.

To bring my reply towards the proposed root though, biju holding has been seen as a status symbol for a long time, of being either the best zoner or RPer; it has often shifted from the latter to the former since their inception, long before there were any biju rules (the days of Zenaku contrasted with the days of mid-late Bocchiere for example). When the involved parties stopped being able to RP a biju hunt without issues, IC methods were just outright scrapped, making it all about the zoning ability.

Then the fights started becoming bothersome and, with both avenues being more trouble than their worth, people started dropping off of that ladder as the best zoners by any means necessary took the beasts.

So, if we want the biju to still be about the best RPer/zoner whatever, a symbol of skill in some area, then artificial limits need to be less restraining than 1 or 2 beasts a person in my opinion.

If, however, there is a desire to make the biju just about avoiding monopolies, then 1 for 1 will get the job done nicely. Personally, I can go either way on this swing, but my preference is that we find something to replace the biju if we make the biju less of a symbol of strength/skill/what have you. Maybe we can make the position of "kage" more important again, as miniature game masters? Or daimyou? Something.

Which is why I think the IC rules are the way to make the Bijuu start rolling again, a chance to stop making it about the 'zoning' skills and actually letting people go out and do something more interactive and fun. But again, sticking with being too honest for my own good, if I went around handing Bijuu back out without the IC Rules in place, or some type of limits in place, they we could essentially end up right back in square one.

Like I said, if we are going to go with a hard limit, I prefer something closer to three or four, then. But even if this rule goes into effect this second, it won't affect me or the state that the current beasts are at >> Just like it wouldn't apply to me if I was in match(assuming this rule had to actually do with something about fighting), this one won't apply until after I fall below whatever limit is set(assuming a limit is set).

As for Kage being GMs, I am not so sure about that. Out of the Kage that are even active/capable enough, we've already got them as GMs. Bec and Keito o.o I was gonna say Koji, too, but I can't remember if he is just wiki staff or also a GM >> But just give someone the power to be a GM because they are a Kage? I unno.
Plus, side note, I'm pretty sure I'm the only Daimyo ICly that isn't just some old feudal lord xD
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Timothy

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2017, 07:11:01 PM »

A Hard Limit of 3 would be the compromise option we could start out with. If the rule we're to be enacted, those currently over the limit would have a set time frame to redistribute the excess tailed beasts which they control. (This time limit would be enacted to prevent potential abuse of stalling or claims of stalling)

Current challenges involving a scenario where one of the options means someone is over the limit should be discussed here.
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Dart Terumī

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2017, 10:58:31 PM »

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8564.msg224061.html#msg224061


This is how I feel the bijū should be handled from now on.
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Gyu~ru~ru

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2017, 03:11:40 AM »

I don't see that as a bad idea, but I posted a few questions about the idea.

There will always be more players than Bijuu to share, so the idea of having a player simply getting some of the Bijuu's chakra like Kinkaku & Ginkaku, and learning their special Jutsu like how Gaara can still manipulate sand, is a good idea. Bijuu can keep their status as trophies without limiting others from gaining their powers and chakra to improve their RP. So even if Athos has 90% if the Bijuu (this number was given to me by Shadow =p), as long as he is willing to play the role of some kind of sage that teaches other Shinobi "the way of the tailed-beasts" or something, and invest enough of his time to do so, then I don't see any reason to complain. But if he is too busy to do so (we all have a life to live after all), then it would be most appreciated if he would take Terumi's idea into consideration and let go of a few, especially those which he isn't actively using in battles.
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Timothy

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2017, 04:53:10 AM »

I don't see that as a bad idea, but I posted a few questions about the idea.

There will always be more players than Bijuu to share, so the idea of having a player simply getting some of the Bijuu's chakra like Kinkaku & Ginkaku, and learning their special Jutsu like how Gaara can still manipulate sand, is a good idea. Bijuu can keep their status as trophies without limiting others from gaining their powers and chakra to improve their RP. So even if Athos has 90% if the Bijuu (this number was given to me by Shadow =p), as long as he is willing to play the role of some kind of sage that teaches other Shinobi "the way of the tailed-beasts" or something, and invest enough of his time to do so, then I don't see any reason to complain. But if he is too busy to do so (we all have a life to live after all), then it would be most appreciated if he would take Terumi's idea into consideration and let go of a few, especially those which he isn't actively using in battles.


A rule recently was made saying tailed beast chakra couldn't be split. So no Naruto/Sora type deals as of now.

I do have a question though, if Athos is out to redistribute the tailed beasts to worthy/active players then why the challenge made for the Zero Tails? After Iburi/Rusaku's match resolves, both individuals are clearly involved in Roleplay on a regular basis, & in my personal opinion seem to be quite decent at it.

It's questionable to try to take it from either of them, only to redistribute them months, if maybe a year later when Athos gets involved in Roleplay once more while it could already be involved in many interesting Roleplay sessions by either Iburi, Rusaku, or whoever wins it by that time. My character Tomi has personally experienced Iburi's usage of the zero tails in character & it was quite fun sparring against him as a host. I personally don't like the idea of it getting locked up for who knows how long.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2017, 06:59:17 AM »

There will always be more players than Bijuu to share, so the idea of having a player simply getting some of the Bijuu's chakra like Kinkaku & Ginkaku

We don't need 20 or more pseudo jinks running around. It's bad enough with 10 of them, including the 0 tails. Allowing the splitting of their chakra is a terrible idea. Even in the slightest. If I remember correctly it was a resounding no from the community. 18 ban vs 1 no or something. It needs to stay that way.

and learning their special Jutsu like how Gaara can still manipulate sand, is a good idea. Bijuu can keep their status as trophies without limiting others from gaining their powers and chakra to improve their RP.

If a host masters a bijuu and then proceeds to lose it they will retain the traits that the beast granted them. I have Lava release from the Yonbi and Tomi has ink and so on. Only when mastered.

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