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Author Topic: Using juts without a heart  (Read 259 times)

Warren

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2017, 12:05:52 am »

Told you whether he can grow a heart back fast enough was the better question.
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Camel

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2017, 12:39:53 am »

Told you whether he can grow a heart back fast enough was the better question.

I don't think you grow back limbs or organs with the regeneration ability(Healing Power) and Athos doesn't have White Strength Seal as far as I know.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 12:40:21 am by Camel »
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Timothy

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 12:54:11 am »

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Regeneration_Ability

It can't regrow limbs and organs.
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Warren

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 02:35:16 am »

Depends on how much one considers kyuubi chakra able to do then I suppose.
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Camel

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 03:50:26 am »

Depends on how much one considers kyuubi chakra able to do then I suppose.

I don't even think the initial release of Kurama's chakra wouldn't have the power to regrow a missing limb or organ. Damaged organs and limbs are another matter, since it is shown that the initial release state can heal a punctured lung; as when Naruto did it against his first fight with Sasuke at the VoTE.
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Warren

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2017, 04:15:57 am »

Well if you go by canon examples it couldn't do jack when Kabuto messed a little bit with Naruto's heart with a chakra scalpel.
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Timothy

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 05:09:11 am »

True enough, Kurama needed access to the in tact chakra pathways connected to the heart. No heart, no connection.
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Jestar

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 05:14:50 am »

Okay, thanks allot guys, my question has been answered.
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Timothy

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 07:39:48 am »

If all else fails, just put a slice of pizza in a box trap to win ... wait that's my weakness not Athos' 0.o
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Becquerel

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 03:21:35 pm »

If he still has a nervous system, he will still be able to move around for a time. As to whether he'll still be able to perform jutsu - his ability to do so will be severely diminished because as Shadow noted, the heart holds a large portion of the person's chakra. Depending on how the fight has gone thus far (I haven't been following), Athos may or may not have already used a significant portion of his chakra. If he has, then he'll be even worse off.

In the second Naruto Fanbook, Kishimoto stated that one thing that could kill Hidan was malnutrition. Well, using a little SCIENCE! we can see that without a heart, Athos will eventually lose the fight. Why? Cellular respiration.

Without a heart pumping blood through Athos' body, there's no way to transport oxygen to different parts of his body. The blood is just going to pool in his extremities. No blood circulation means no diffusion of new oxygen molecules across cell membranes throughout his body. No new oxygen molecules means no production of ATP (the "energy" source that the body uses for everything). No ATP means no movement, no speaking, no production of chakra, nothing.

In the case of malnutrition and starvation: The two things you need to  produce ATP (technically there's more things you need, but they're intermediate products in the entire cellular respiration process that are produced from oxygen and glucose) are glucose (the carbohydrate we get from foods) and oxygen. No glucose, you still can't produce ATP.

This is a grossly simplified explanation, but it serves its purpose. SCIENCE, BITCH!

To be fair, science can't really be applied to this situation :o Mainly due to the fact that Hidan was a severed head and still cursing up a storm. That should be impossible considering there's no lungs for air to go into and out of. And I don't remember exactly the damage done, but if he didn't have his larynx then it shouldn't be possible for him to make noise at all either. And the whole thing about blood could be thrown out the window too because in my personal experience, severed carotid arteries usually result in unresponsiveness in about 10-15 seconds. Because Hidan was still wide awake and angry the whole time when he should be unconscious, you can't really use blood as an argument. :P So in the end, it's a manga so it's all silly ninja magic.
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Athos

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2017, 08:43:30 pm »

If he still has a nervous system, he will still be able to move around for a time. As to whether he'll still be able to perform jutsu - his ability to do so will be severely diminished because as Shadow noted, the heart holds a large portion of the person's chakra. Depending on how the fight has gone thus far (I haven't been following), Athos may or may not have already used a significant portion of his chakra. If he has, then he'll be even worse off.

In the second Naruto Fanbook, Kishimoto stated that one thing that could kill Hidan was malnutrition. Well, using a little SCIENCE! we can see that without a heart, Athos will eventually lose the fight. Why? Cellular respiration.

Without a heart pumping blood through Athos' body, there's no way to transport oxygen to different parts of his body. The blood is just going to pool in his extremities. No blood circulation means no diffusion of new oxygen molecules across cell membranes throughout his body. No new oxygen molecules means no production of ATP (the "energy" source that the body uses for everything). No ATP means no movement, no speaking, no production of chakra, nothing.

In the case of malnutrition and starvation: The two things you need to  produce ATP (technically there's more things you need, but they're intermediate products in the entire cellular respiration process that are produced from oxygen and glucose) are glucose (the carbohydrate we get from foods) and oxygen. No glucose, you still can't produce ATP.

This is a grossly simplified explanation, but it serves its purpose. SCIENCE, BITCH!

To be fair, science can't really be applied to this situation :o Mainly due to the fact that Hidan was a severed head and still cursing up a storm. That should be impossible considering there's no lungs for air to go into and out of. And I don't remember exactly the damage done, but if he didn't have his larynx then it shouldn't be possible for him to make noise at all either. And the whole thing about blood could be thrown out the window too because in my personal experience, severed carotid arteries usually result in unresponsiveness in about 10-15 seconds. Because Hidan was still wide awake and angry the whole time when he should be unconscious, you can't really use blood as an argument. :P So in the end, it's a manga so it's all silly ninja magic.
Ninja Magic! :D
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Vail

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2017, 09:16:41 pm »

If he still has a nervous system, he will still be able to move around for a time. As to whether he'll still be able to perform jutsu - his ability to do so will be severely diminished because as Shadow noted, the heart holds a large portion of the person's chakra. Depending on how the fight has gone thus far (I haven't been following), Athos may or may not have already used a significant portion of his chakra. If he has, then he'll be even worse off.

In the second Naruto Fanbook, Kishimoto stated that one thing that could kill Hidan was malnutrition. Well, using a little SCIENCE! we can see that without a heart, Athos will eventually lose the fight. Why? Cellular respiration.

Without a heart pumping blood through Athos' body, there's no way to transport oxygen to different parts of his body. The blood is just going to pool in his extremities. No blood circulation means no diffusion of new oxygen molecules across cell membranes throughout his body. No new oxygen molecules means no production of ATP (the "energy" source that the body uses for everything). No ATP means no movement, no speaking, no production of chakra, nothing.

In the case of malnutrition and starvation: The two things you need to  produce ATP (technically there's more things you need, but they're intermediate products in the entire cellular respiration process that are produced from oxygen and glucose) are glucose (the carbohydrate we get from foods) and oxygen. No glucose, you still can't produce ATP.

This is a grossly simplified explanation, but it serves its purpose. SCIENCE, BITCH!

To be fair, science can't really be applied to this situation :o Mainly due to the fact that Hidan was a severed head and still cursing up a storm. That should be impossible considering there's no lungs for air to go into and out of. And I don't remember exactly the damage done, but if he didn't have his larynx then it shouldn't be possible for him to make noise at all either. And the whole thing about blood could be thrown out the window too because in my personal experience, severed carotid arteries usually result in unresponsiveness in about 10-15 seconds. Because Hidan was still wide awake and angry the whole time when he should be unconscious, you can't really use blood as an argument. :P So in the end, it's a manga so it's all silly ninja magic.

Kishimoto said that malnutrition killed him. I provided a reasonable explanation as to why that is, given what we know about why we eat anyway.
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Athos

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2017, 11:30:42 pm »

If he still has a nervous system, he will still be able to move around for a time. As to whether he'll still be able to perform jutsu - his ability to do so will be severely diminished because as Shadow noted, the heart holds a large portion of the person's chakra. Depending on how the fight has gone thus far (I haven't been following), Athos may or may not have already used a significant portion of his chakra. If he has, then he'll be even worse off.

In the second Naruto Fanbook, Kishimoto stated that one thing that could kill Hidan was malnutrition. Well, using a little SCIENCE! we can see that without a heart, Athos will eventually lose the fight. Why? Cellular respiration.

Without a heart pumping blood through Athos' body, there's no way to transport oxygen to different parts of his body. The blood is just going to pool in his extremities. No blood circulation means no diffusion of new oxygen molecules across cell membranes throughout his body. No new oxygen molecules means no production of ATP (the "energy" source that the body uses for everything). No ATP means no movement, no speaking, no production of chakra, nothing.

In the case of malnutrition and starvation: The two things you need to  produce ATP (technically there's more things you need, but they're intermediate products in the entire cellular respiration process that are produced from oxygen and glucose) are glucose (the carbohydrate we get from foods) and oxygen. No glucose, you still can't produce ATP.

This is a grossly simplified explanation, but it serves its purpose. SCIENCE, BITCH!

To be fair, science can't really be applied to this situation :o Mainly due to the fact that Hidan was a severed head and still cursing up a storm. That should be impossible considering there's no lungs for air to go into and out of. And I don't remember exactly the damage done, but if he didn't have his larynx then it shouldn't be possible for him to make noise at all either. And the whole thing about blood could be thrown out the window too because in my personal experience, severed carotid arteries usually result in unresponsiveness in about 10-15 seconds. Because Hidan was still wide awake and angry the whole time when he should be unconscious, you can't really use blood as an argument. :P So in the end, it's a manga so it's all silly ninja magic.

Kishimoto said that malnutrition killed him. I provided a reasonable explanation as to why that is, given what we know about why we eat anyway.

But the same Kishimoto also still had him marked as alive come the time of the Fourth Shinobi War, with dialog from Kakuzu essentially confirming the Jashinist was still alive. So even if the science fits, the canon material still says otherwise. It's like going out of your way to argue how Goku deflecting bullets make no sense, or even Krillin since he is just a human. But the original content comes first before real life science o.o

Whichever way of Malnutrition killed Hidan, it isn't the type you talked about, obviously. Hell, Hidan when being buried even goes to say that even if Shikamaru destroyed his body entirely, so long as he still had a head he'd be fine. Not only does that rule out the need for any organs besides the brain, but it also shows that he didn't need to eat. Well, I mean obviously he'd need to eventually, but not right away o.o Hell, we know that by Boruto and all he's dead but as of the Fourth Shinobi War, he's still alive under there.

So that's from Asuma dying and Naruto learning the Rasengan*, to when Naruto is mastering the Nine Tails and goes to the war o.o I don't know how much time is between those two things, but I know it is a fucking lot xD We are talking about, the rest of the Akatsuki, all of the Itachi/Sasuke stuff, the Pain Attack on the village. Then the Five Kage Summit, and then so on and so forth o.o And not even a fourth of that much time will pass within a zone fight that lasts 20 posts, let along mine with Jestar that's only gone on for a few.

Learning the Rasenshuriken, not the Rasengan* Edit.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 11:42:50 pm by Athos »
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Eric

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Re: Using juts without a heart
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2017, 11:45:54 pm »

I will not pretend that this is not related to the bike battle for the 7 tails, because frankly it is. Can a ninja still use ordinary   techniques without a heart...


Well, a Jashinist without a heart would probably lose a bike race, cause you know, would be too busy crying out in pleasure on the bike as a result of all that pain. But, you know, Athos is not a jashinist, just a guy with jashinist immortality, so you'd definitely have to get the judge to rule on whether not having a heart would affect his pedaling and stuff.

Quote
I ask because despite having no heart, Athos is claiming to be able to use a space-time barrier and claiming to be on the road to recovery, odd since even Kakuzu  was left quite vulnerable without any hearts.

I am sure the rasenshuriken blades cutting through his chakra network had nothing to do that.

Quote
Shinobis Chakra nature is tied to their heart as seen by the Earth grudge fear. Bijou cloak I see, but healing vital organs and regular jutsu?

Well, Hidan pierced his own heart and regenerated the damage from that, but got cut up into pieces and did not regenerate arms and legs to dig himself out of the hole Shikamaru made for him. So if anything Jashinist immortality is linked to the head/brain region, not per say the heart, so while it would probably hurt and his blood pressure would drop to 0, over a long period of time he probably could recover.

In the context of this fight, it is unlikely that Athos will "die" conventionally, as even Hidan survived at least to the Great Shinobi War, perhaps longer if the naruto.wikia page is to be believed, and he was left as just a head. Of course if neither surrenders theoretically this fight could go on for a very long time.

While I am not sure the 9-tails seal is in serious danger of breaking at this point in the fight, that is probably the only other way to get Athos much closer to dying at this point, and I am not really sure what if anything would help with that.

The big question is, where is the judge? It does not seem like either of you are going to be calling it quits on your own anytime soon, so if a back and forth waiting game is what the fight is going to turn into, the judge needs to be either switched out or kept on call.
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