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Messages - Vail

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31
Village Square / Re: Using juts without a heart
« on: May 31, 2017, 02:33:55 PM »
Hidan was only a head and was marked still alive by, like, the start of the Shinobi war and stuff >> And he didn't die from his brain shutting down, or not breathing, or his heart not working. Because nothing was connected.

Even while still a head, he was alive until he died from starvation >>

The question wasn't whether he'd be alive or not, because that much is obvious. He couldn't control his body with a severed spinal cord. Even if he can't die, basic biology still applies.

32
Village Square / Re: Using juts without a heart
« on: May 30, 2017, 11:33:45 PM »
Better question might be how to grow a heart back quick enough not to suffer permanent brain and organ damage from lack of oxygen before that.

He's fighting a Hidan so those things don't apply.

Hidan or not, lack of a heart means you don't have the necessary major organ to keep your muscles and tissue from dying. I mean sure, the brain can lie without oxygen for four minutes and since we are talking about a Hidan here. This handicap wouldn't necessarily apply, but you still need a heart to keep the oxygenated blood flowing to those muscles and tissues that are working in overdrive in this bijuu match.

Another thing about Earth Grudge Fear is once those masks(hearts) are destroyed, the user of the technique is limited to whatever chakras nature(heart) they have left. No hearts, including the one within your body, means no access to any chakra elemental nature that the user may have.  It's confusing the more I think about it, since most users that I've seen using Earth Grudge Fear tend to ignore all of this and go about using whatever chakra nature that was destroyed in that mask by claiming they had mastery of it prior to the Earth Grudge Fear.

^

33
Village Square / Re: Alternate Energy Sources
« on: May 28, 2017, 05:19:56 AM »
I'm going to start using Nuclear energy.
Bec could hook you up with that :P

And I still don't understand how people can quantify abstract concepts lol

Mathematicians and engineers lurk these here realms. It is clear.

Don't forget physicists *laughs maniacally*

34
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 08, 2017, 07:02:42 PM »
So should we put this to a vote and see who all would like to test the idea?

35
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 02, 2017, 09:26:09 PM »
Sooo basically scrap the system we've all worked towards making better over the last year, even as this topic goes on people are aiming to make improvements... And then force everyone to make a new set of council rules, Bijuu rules, and so on just because you think this might work and that this might be slightly better than what we have going on?

I just... really can't with this topic.

I'm saying that we should give it a shot. Seems like you're irrationally clinging on to a system that has shown itself to still perpetuate the same problems despite efforts to improve on it.

No one is saying that this is guaranteed to be a better system than what we currently have, but we'll never know if we don't try it out.

Also, that isn't an argument as to why this system wouldn't potentially be better than the one we have. You're just citing how it may or may not inconvenience people, which isn't a sound argument. It's an argumentum ad consequentiam: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_consequences

36
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 02, 2017, 07:46:24 PM »
Quote
You can't refute Dart's argument because you tried something similar (at least something that you claim to have been similar) and it didn't work out. You make the implicit assumption that it didn't work out because the idea itself was bad, and therefore Dart's idea wouldn't work out because it's also bad. To place that in a logical form:

A: I had an idea that fell through because it was bad.
B: Dart's idea is similar to my idea.
C: Therefore, Dart's idea will fail.

In order for us to deduce C, both A and B need to be true. Well premise A can be false if you failed to consider confounding variables that led to your idea failing. And premise B can be false if your idea wasn't really similar to Dart's at all. Moving on.
Wasn't my point. Point was this idea isn't how Bijuu are portrayed in Naruto. The Kage of each village sealed their Bijuu into a host, making a weapon known as Jinchuuriki. This idea removed that and instead turn Bijuu into something similar to the White Snake Sage or the Great Toad Sage, something they are not.

Quote
"1) You will also be forcing villages that doesn't want to have anything to do with Bijuu take in one, by taking it away from players who actually want one. "

No one ever said that we would be making villages that don't want a biju take one. It was explicitly stated that villages like Kirigakure (who ban bijuu entirely) would be left out of this, so one can conclude that we would be distributing the bijuu to villages that would be interested.
My bad, I can't remember everything that was discussed, and the 1st post was not updated to keep track of the discussion.

Quote
"2) What are your plans for Bijuu that doesn't have a village?"

This has already been partially addressed. See previous comments.

Re-read the whole thread, couldn't find it. Would be a big help if the 1st post is updated to keep track of things.

Quote
"3) It's not about the power level. Achieving the power level of a Jinchuuriki by using Sage Mode other stuff is not the same mastering your Bijuu."

It's not the same thing, but it reduces owning a bijuu if you already have the power level of a jinchuriki to a redundancy. That was the point.
To solve that problem, we give the Bijuu to the most powerful Ninja of each village, and allow anyone who go to each location that these Bijuu are at, to gain their traits, V1 cloak, and ability to summon them like toads and snakes by signing a contract. Bypassing the 1 Bijuu per host, and the soon to be 3 Bijuu limit when capturing Bijuu.

Powerful player hoarding Bijuu will soon be a thing of the past. This idea basically forces everyone to forget about roleplaying as a Jinchuuriki, allow everyone to go around collection all 9 or 10 Bijuu powers/summons, remove all the previous Bijuu rules that were put into place, and make new rules based on this new, untested, alien concept. If you can't see any problem with that, then I shall put my argument to rest. Continuing on this back & forth argument will not result in anything positive, and only reinforces its flaws instead of fixing them.


1) Then take notes on the side to remember key points before making incorrect assumptions. I haven't had the time to sit down and refresh the first post though, that'll be updated in a newer thread once this discussion bears fruit.

2) Talks were had about clan exclusive villages getting the unaffiliated beasts. Or rather, which and where beasts in general would go haven't been fully delved out yet. Again, this is all a DISCUSSION to work out details. This isn't a rushed vote in an attempt to immediately put it into place.

3) The 'Kages aren't necessarily even the strongest in the villages anymore. But they are the leaders of the village. Having a summoning contract with the bijū of their village would have to regulated.

I was thinking of only being able to summon the bijū for combat if the village itself comes under attack or village wars become a thing.

The V1 cloak got immediately dismissed so that wouldn't even be a viable option any longer. Learning the passive traits would still be available, but again, that generates a lot of individual and unique RP with each person.



Yeah, so what if it is new concept? We don't exactly follow canon any longer. People make up new things all the time and implement into the mainstream RP. We need a fresh start, especially with a function that has such a negative dogma attached to it.

To reiterate again, the time of the Jinchūriki has passed. It is time to create new era of enlightenment (and fresh RP) flourish.



If there is no trial or anything and people just up and talk to the tailed beast, how is that more special than an in-game GM creating a random character and having it do the same thing? Are they not RP authorities enough to be able to do that and have the interaction recognized?

In my opinion, if Dart's idea were to become the new norm, that would mean that pretty much anyone would be able to dip into a beast's powers depending on the village they're part of. For fairness sake, it might have to change that people hold onto 'passives' when they master a beast because they'd only be able to master the one that is part of the village they're aligned to. This could also generate more intravillage RP because it'd be more difficult for a 'rogue' ninja to exist if they don't have any bijuu buff on their side, meaning more people might make alignments towards villages.

And as for RPing with the beast, I don't see why it can't be a kind of mount myoboku within the village that takes you there. Maybe like some sort of special space/time doorway that leads you to the bijuu? :o So it'd be easy for villagers to access it but more difficult for an attacking village to get to it. They'd have to go after someone high-ranking or well versed in order to find out where the doorway is hidden or how to unlock it.

I'm liking this. Of course it should be no easy task to reach the bijuu, and it should be harder still to convince the bijuu that you're worthy of being it's "student." Otherwise you'd have every one running around with gifts from the bijuu without having actually worked for it.

I don't know if I think people from the village should have it easier interacting with the bijuu. Finding it, maybe, but actually interacting it with it should probably be determined based on the temperament of the bijuu itself.

I like this idea as well. Makes actually achieving a union of sorts with the bijū more involved and thus generating more RP. Tests and trials would be a thing, I'm sure, especially for an outsider but even more so for the villagers as the bijū would want their power being put to good use for the people. Though, again, that would be dependent on the temperament of the specific bijū. Putting them in a sacred place within the village that is even more well guarded than the village would be pretty grand to.

For example purposes only: How cool would it be to have the rank/title of the Kyūbi's protector?  That would be sure to fire up some RP just for people to shoot for that title, especially with the newer generation.



A new Council and rules would have to be drafted and molded to fit into this scenario to ensure that all players would have the chance of a fair RP and interaction with the bijū. To prevent the GMs from being stingy with the learning of powers but also to ensure that the villages don't unfairly restrict access to their bijū and to ensure that the individual going around and learning abilities/powers/knowledge doesn't abuse the RP route that was given to that specific individual. A trial for my character would be different for Eric's character, etc.

The new council would also come to a consensus on the bijū's temperaments and have a generalized idea of how that bijū thinks, talks, and acts. Well, hopefully anyways but that's not a current issue yet to discuss.

^^^^

37
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 02, 2017, 03:54:57 PM »
If there is no trial or anything and people just up and talk to the tailed beast, how is that more special than an in-game GM creating a random character and having it do the same thing? Are they not RP authorities enough to be able to do that and have the interaction recognized?

In my opinion, if Dart's idea were to become the new norm, that would mean that pretty much anyone would be able to dip into a beast's powers depending on the village they're part of. For fairness sake, it might have to change that people hold onto 'passives' when they master a beast because they'd only be able to master the one that is part of the village they're aligned to. This could also generate more intravillage RP because it'd be more difficult for a 'rogue' ninja to exist if they don't have any bijuu buff on their side, meaning more people might make alignments towards villages.

And as for RPing with the beast, I don't see why it can't be a kind of mount myoboku within the village that takes you there. Maybe like some sort of special space/time doorway that leads you to the bijuu? :o So it'd be easy for villagers to access it but more difficult for an attacking village to get to it. They'd have to go after someone high-ranking or well versed in order to find out where the doorway is hidden or how to unlock it.

I'm liking this. Of course it should be no easy task to reach the bijuu, and it should be harder still to convince the bijuu that you're worthy of being it's "student." Otherwise you'd have every one running around with gifts from the bijuu without having actually worked for it.

I don't know if I think people from the village should have it easier interacting with the bijuu. Finding it, maybe, but actually interacting it with it should probably be determined based on the temperament of the bijuu itself.

38
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 02, 2017, 03:48:10 PM »

This is like that very interesting idea I had for my character RP. It sounded fun and creative. But when I finally try it out in RP, it was unimmersive, making it hard to get into character or build anything around it. When people think Bijuu, they think Jinchuurki like Gaara, Naruto, and Killer-B, or summoner like Obito/Tobi, not pilgrimages and mentors. Such ideas are alien to Naruto RP, making it hard for anyone to get immerse in it.

Not to mention these;
1) You will also be forcing villages that doesn't want to have anything to do with Bijuu take in one, by taking it away from players who actually want one.
2) What are your plans for Bijuu that doesn't have a village?
3) It's not about the power level. Achieving the power level of a Jinchuuriki by using Sage Mode other stuff is not the same mastering your Bijuu.

I have no intention of solicit a fight. I am a moderator and I will conduct myself like one. I was simply listing out all the things that this idea/rule is stepping on, in a straight forward and easy to read manner, hoping that you would see just how many things you are trampling on with this idea of yours.

You can't refute Dart's argument because you tried something similar (at least something that you claim to have been similar) and it didn't work out. You make the implicit assumption that it didn't work out because the idea itself was bad, and therefore Dart's idea wouldn't work out because it's also bad. To place that in a logical form:

A: I had an idea that fell through because it was bad.
B: Dart's idea is similar to my idea.
C: Therefore, Dart's idea will fail.

In order for us to deduce C, both A and B need to be true. Well premise A can be false if you failed to consider confounding variables that led to your idea failing. And premise B can be false if your idea wasn't really similar to Dart's at all. Moving on.

"1) You will also be forcing villages that doesn't want to have anything to do with Bijuu take in one, by taking it away from players who actually want one. "

No one ever said that we would be making villages that don't want a biju take one. It was explicitly stated that villages like Kirigakure (who ban bijuu entirely) would be left out of this, so one can conclude that we would be distributing the bijuu to villages that would be interested.

"2) What are your plans for Bijuu that doesn't have a village?"

This has already been partially addressed. See previous comments.

"3) It's not about the power level. Achieving the power level of a Jinchuuriki by using Sage Mode other stuff is not the same mastering your Bijuu."

It's not the same thing, but it reduces owning a bijuu if you already have the power level of a jinchuriki to a redundancy. That was the point.

39
Rules/Foundation / Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Vote)
« on: May 02, 2017, 03:31:04 PM »
Yay

40
Rules/Foundation / Re: Kurama and a request
« on: May 02, 2017, 04:59:31 AM »
Seems good to me.

41
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 02, 2017, 04:56:10 AM »

You all have already erased the point of jinchuriki when you fight each other for tailed beasts that while using characters so powerful that the power boost that you'd get from it is more than negligible...

If you mean canon-wise, the jinchs were village weapons that were to be used in times of war. Notice how Takigakure is the only non-major village to have a tailed beast in the canon (Amegakure/Akatsuki is not counted in this example). The point of true jinchurikii stopped translating well into SL when as weapons they paled in comparison to what the villages could muster otherwise.

Not to mention there has not been a major SL village vs village war in half a decade if not more, much less one that relied on its jinchurikii as major sources of power. It's not just the guys fighting for beasts that minimized their existence as weapons.

This idea to me, would be better served if we just scrap the tailed beasts and encourage the kages of the villages to continue doing their jobs, with great gusto. Teaching people jutsu, mentoring newcomers, fostering village cohesion, isn't that what the leaders of the realm are supposed to be doing (and in many cases are doing?)?

I know some time ago Kage was basically the main GM for Amegakure, and he looked out for Ame RPers. It sounds like you want to make the tailed beasts a few hairs short of that when that would better be suited for the actual realm leaders.

I'm saying that the tailed beasts can (and should) be used as an additional tool by the village leaders to build up their citizens. Doing things the way that Dart proposed would allow that. You're right that the bijuu kind of became worthless when the villages began to produce more powerful weapons, which is the point I was making. Particularly I was talking about the characters who themselves act as de facto weapons for the village.

42
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 01, 2017, 02:41:55 AM »
I think Ray's right about us having characters that are just too strong. But I can't really think of how to fix it besides having us police ourselves. Every previous attempt to make limits or guidelines slowly just disappears as people want more and more. It's like going to a buffet and saying, 'oh, this looks good. Oh, and so does this. And this....' >_>
I think that's why I kinda stopped RPing. My character used to be extremely powerful back before SLS. After going on hiatus and coming back, I'm hardly a speedbump these days. At the same time, I don't really want to make my character more powerful because I feel then I'll just be part of the problem.
I guess it's hard to RP with other people because everyone's character is good at everything. No one needs a medic because everyone regens, no one needs a certain elemental specialist because everyone mastered everything, no one needs a sensor because everyone has minds eye or whatever, and so on. Hard to build a fun story with other people when you don't need other people

Oh, and to stay on topic, this idea isn't too bad and two max per player >_> No need for an akatsuki type group if all you need is one bocc dude

Yep, Teostra said it best. We're all Gary Stu's and Mary Sue's. That's why I've cut down my character's abilities dramatically, because I refuse to be a part of the problem any more.

43
Rules/Foundation / Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« on: May 01, 2017, 01:51:43 AM »
I also think that a limit of 3 is good.

44
Rules/Foundation / Re: Crazy Bijū Handling Idea
« on: May 01, 2017, 12:49:35 AM »
I don't think I need to say why I think this idea is, simply and nicely put, silly o.o

Because then you can't horde the biju anymore? You've already expressed the desire to distribute the biju on your own, so I don't see why you would have a problem with this. Both scenarios lead to you not having all of the biju, which you don't need anyway because your character is ridiculously strong on its own.

Because it erases the point of Jinchuuriki, smartass? You know, those people and things I've been preaching to you about trying to mean something and make better? Or are we just gonna forget I told you all that stuff so you can sharpen your pitchfork too? :/

You all have already erased the point of jinchuriki when you fight each other for tailed beasts that while using characters so powerful that the power boost that you'd get from it is more than negligible. As I keep saying, distributing the tailed beasts to lower ranking players isn't going to work so long as the meta players are so obsessed with getting something that essentially has no value to them that they don't want to give other players a chance.

Distributing the tailed beasts to different villages prevents that from happening. And please don't try to frame this like I'm joining some which hunt against you. If it were Rusaku, or Bocc, or Teostra, or anyone else in your position I would have had said the same thing. I respect you all enough to be honest with you.

And I still have everything you've told me in mind, but action says quite more than words does and so far I still see you with the majority of the tailed beasts and actively challenging other players for the ones you don't have. You just issued a challenge to Ray a few days ago, when he was one of those lower level (no slight to you, Ray. You're very good in your own right, but there is a different in technical skill between you and say, a Rusaku).

And going back to the things of mine you have in mind, you also know Athos isn't going to be the same very soon >> without spoiling any of the things I am gonna be doing. So even saying 'well, Athos is strong' won't be a viable reason because I won't be xD I'm gonna be lower tier.

It most certainly would be viable because you're not the only person with a character so strong that they don't even need a biju. Depending on how much you plan on nerfing your character, you could become one of the very people that I'm standing up for.

45
Rules/Foundation / Re: Limiting Bijuu Ownership (Discussion)
« on: April 30, 2017, 11:29:00 PM »
Another thread that has degraded into a shit throwing contest because Athos got pissed, lol. GG
What's that? All I taste is a bunch of salt on all this civil conversation ._.
[/quote]

You mistakenly confuse my willingness to point out that you reacted to Gyururu in an irrational manner because you seem to be fixated on this idea that everyone is out to get you. Whether that is a true belief or not is up for debate, but it's my opinion that, as I was in the other thread, Gyururu wasn't initiating a personal attack against you, but you just happen to be the person who's in the position that's being criticized.

You saw what she said as a personal attack when it wasn't, you got annoyed and decide to respond with a little vitriol and a "bite me" to close out your message. That's when the civil conversation ended. I just decided to point it out because I thought it was funny. Respectfully, don't presume to know what mental state I'm in and then respond to your own presupposition. I would have told you if I were "salty" or upset.

I just got out of jiu jitsu so I'm the farthest one could be from mad or angry lol.

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