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Author Topic: Naruto 423  (Read 12769 times)

atomkai

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #75 on: November 05, 2008, 10:16:51 PM »

You can't prove something is wrong without at the same time saying that something else is true.

I disagree. Negative proof, in nearly all circumstances, remains a logical fallacy.
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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #76 on: November 05, 2008, 10:35:15 PM »

You can't prove something is wrong without at the same time saying that something else is true.

I disagree. Negative proof, in nearly all circumstances, remains a logical fallacy.
No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.
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atomkai

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #77 on: November 05, 2008, 11:00:34 PM »

No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2008, 11:01:38 PM »

No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
I think someone is a grumpy bum...  ;)
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atomkai

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2008, 11:05:54 PM »

Nah, not grumpy - I just abhor faulty logic.   :P
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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2008, 11:06:58 PM »

Nah, not grumpy - I just abhor faulty logic.   :P
Not so much faulty Logic, I agree with them, but I see where your coming from.
You just need to stop over thinking everything.
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Mihamaru

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2008, 11:37:49 PM »

No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.
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(S): >.>; Duuuuuude.. do you have Yuri?

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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2008, 11:43:09 PM »

No, Miha is right, in all those cases and more, when they disprove something they have found a different truth.
And most of the times they don't disprove what people believed, but build on it.

Miha may be correct in his analysis of the examples given (which were not statements on "proving a negative", re read - this time with context), but Miha is -NOT- correct in that proving a negative is routine and requires an alternate proposition.
You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.
How do we know the world truly is round? It is just how we see things, but Humans do not see the world/Universe how it truly is...
So many things are to much for our minds to handle, like a multidimentional world, ie. 5+ Dimentions
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atomkai

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2008, 11:47:10 PM »

You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2008, 11:49:35 PM »

You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
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doomstar

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2008, 12:26:02 AM »

You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
... do you understand anything that he is saying at all?

it's harder to get proof that something never happened than it is to prove that something did happen
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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2008, 12:28:13 AM »

You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
... do you understand anything that he is saying at all?

it's harder to get proof that something never happened than it is to prove that something did happen

There is proof certain events in the bible did happen, so you can't say it never happened.
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doomstar

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #87 on: November 06, 2008, 12:29:07 AM »

You are right. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
However, let me put it this way.
I can prove that the earth isn't flat by proving the earth is round.
I can prove that the sky isn't red by proving the sky is blue.
If you can prove something completly contradictory, then you can prove something to be false.

I agree that it is possible in some cases to do this.  In fact, your examples are excellent.

My position is that it is rarely required.

Asking someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy in almost all situations.  That does not mean that it is impossible to do in all of those situations.
You have double standards, you wanted us to prove our points about Pein earlier, but now when we ask you to give proof that the Bible is false you say you don't need proof?
Make up your mind dude.
... do you understand anything that he is saying at all?

it's harder to get proof that something never happened than it is to prove that something did happen

There is proof certain events in the bible did happen, so you can't say it never happened.
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.

and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
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IceSlayer

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #88 on: November 06, 2008, 12:34:38 AM »

Quote
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.
Doesn't make it false either

Quote
and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
There is reference to someone that sounds a lot like Moses in Egyptian History, along with other events around that time.
Some people have claimed to found Noah's Ark, though the Government there will not let anyone in that area.
There is records of a person called Jesus.
We can all see the Church/s that have spawned from back then.
There is a Jewish people.

More but I too lazy to go any deeper, these are just basics.
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Mihamaru

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Re: Naruto 423
« Reply #89 on: November 06, 2008, 12:36:57 AM »

Quote
certain events doesn't mean the entire book is true.
Doesn't make it false either

Quote
and what events in the bible did occur? cause I don't study the bible because I don't give a crap about religious texts >>
There is reference to someone that sounds a lot like Moses in Egyptian History, along with other events around that time.
Some people have claimed to found Noah's Ark, though the Government there will not let anyone in that area.
There is records of a person called Jesus.
We can all see the Church/s that have spawned from back then.
There is a Jewish people.

More but I too lazy to go any deeper, these are just basics.

The jews and muslims both say he existed, but say he wasn't the son.
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(S): >.>; Duuuuuude.. do you have Yuri?

(K) -_____________-; Ask Miha.. hes da Master! xD
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