Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Akasaka Rakudo]

What are we supposed to be seeing here?

[Nathan]

He's referring to them not being at full power. Meaning they were weaker. He wasn't talking about the sealing.

[Trev]

I don't really see where it says there is a power difference, so if somebody pointed that out to me. >> Only difference I note, is that Orochimaru the second time around didn't care too much about controlling them.

Anyway, to keep this topic more rules orientated, you guys for replacing the damage to user rule with the Edo regeneration rate rules?

[Kage]

Should have specified the pages in my last post, but from the bottom of page 10-13.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/10

To summarize, Oro states that he can limit their movements. Tobirama states that this time they have been revived near full strength, and it was Oro's mistake to do that since they could break free easily. Then Tobirama is actually restrained, and Hashirama points out that it was only because of the cells he has (Hashirama's) that the restraining was strengthened. But even then, Oro states in his mind that he cannot control Hashirama, who has already broken free of the restraints.

That's what one of the real risks behind the jutsu is. If you bring back someone who was pretty powerful, they could break free and pretty much screw you over before you can even put that controlling talisman in their head. What's even worse, is if the summoner is actually killed in the struggle before being able to undo the Edo Tensei. (As Itachi stated in chapter 578) So not only would the Edo Tensei'd be free, they would be near-indestructable and have unlimited chakra. Sure they miss out on a few perks here and there, but those two factors alone could make anyone a juggernaut.

[UettoSenju]

Should have specified the pages in my last post, but from the bottom of page 10-13.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/10

To summarize, Oro states that he can limit their movements. Tobirama states that this time they have been revived near full strength, and it was Oro's mistake to do that since they could break free easily. Then Tobirama is actually restrained, and Hashirama points out that it was only because of the cells he has (Hashirama's) that the restraining was strengthened. But even then, Oro states in his mind that he cannot control Hashirama, who has already broken free of the restraints.

That's what one of the real risks behind the jutsu is. If you bring back someone who was pretty powerful, they could break free and pretty much screw you over before you can even put that controlling talisman in their head. What's even worse, is if the summoner is actually killed in the struggle before being able to undo the Edo Tensei. (As Itachi stated in chapter 578) So not only would the Edo Tensei'd be free, they would be near-indestructable and have unlimited chakra. Sure they miss out on a few perks here and there, but those two factors alone could make anyone a juggernaut.

This is a good point to make... however, I truly doubt anyone will rp their zombie turning on them. I mean really these zombies are NPC (99%) and the user isn't gonna do that for the simple reason it would cause them trouble. So yeah, I like the idea of the user having to concentrate on keeping these zombies under raps a bit harder... Which I think goes back to the user can only defend. So it seems to work itself out to me in the end.

On a side note I also like what Eric spoke of. The whole reforming in one post is a bit rash in my opinion.

Also just out of curiosity. An edo can't host a tailed beast correct? I ask cause Kamui is an edo and we are fighting over the two-tails at the moment... so are free lance zombies a special case? Also sense Kamui is out and about does that count towards the person who summoned him being at a constant loss of the chakra drain caused from using the jutsu? 

I am not trying to say Kamui doesn't have the right to challenge for a tailed beast sense he could use it in the fashion Madara used the nine-tails and such. I am simply wondering if these, what I call, free lance Edo Zombies share any sort of side effects or anything as to the other zombies used by the user them self in battle.

[Akasaka Rakudo]

Should have specified the pages in my last post, but from the bottom of page 10-13.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/10

To summarize, Oro states that he can limit their movements. Tobirama states that this time they have been revived near full strength, and it was Oro's mistake to do that since they could break free easily. Then Tobirama is actually restrained, and Hashirama points out that it was only because of the cells he has (Hashirama's) that the restraining was strengthened. But even then, Oro states in his mind that he cannot control Hashirama, who has already broken free of the restraints.

That's what one of the real risks behind the jutsu is. If you bring back someone who was pretty powerful, they could break free and pretty much screw you over before you can even put that controlling talisman in their head. What's even worse, is if the summoner is actually killed in the struggle before being able to undo the Edo Tensei. (As Itachi stated in chapter 578) So not only would the Edo Tensei'd be free, they would be near-indestructable and have unlimited chakra. Sure they miss out on a few perks here and there, but those two factors alone could make anyone a juggernaut.

This is a good point to make... however, I truly doubt anyone will rp their zombie turning on them. I mean really these zombies are NPC (99%) and the user isn't gonna do that for the simple reason it would cause them trouble. So yeah, I like the idea of the user having to concentrate on keeping these zombies under raps a bit harder... Which I think goes back to the user can only defend. So it seems to work itself out to me in the end.

On a side note I also like what Eric spoke of. The whole reforming in one post is a bit rash in my opinion.

Also just out of curiosity. An edo can't host a tailed beast correct? I ask cause Kamui is an edo and we are fighting over the two-tails at the moment... so are free lance zombies a special case? Also sense Kamui is out and about does that count towards the person who summoned him being at a constant loss of the chakra drain caused from using the jutsu? 

I am not trying to say Kamui doesn't have the right to challenge for a tailed beast sense he could use it in the fashion Madara used the nine-tails and such. I am simply wondering if these, what I call, free lance Edo Zombies share any sort of side effects or anything as to the other zombies used by the user them self in battle.

Isn't Bocchiere the one who Edo Tensei'd Kamui? He is also an Edo Tensei now so I don't think he's hard up for chakra. Trev was the one who "owned" the Kamui zombie before his release though, so this would be directed at him. I think he just took the control tag out of Kamui and went "Knock yourself out."

[Trev]

Yeah, what Rakudo said. Bocc summoned him, and I just kinda stole him for a bit and when he wanted to be Kamui again, kinda let him go. Whether that deducts chakra from someone is a good point though.

As for the biju thing, it might have not been restated in the new rules (Zojin's list) but an old rule is that they can't host a biju (Can still challenge and pull a Madara) Though unless that rule is restated and everybody wants it, I'm assuming it void as of right now. Though, now that you brought it back to attention, it will likely get added again.

[Eric]

It is a canon restrain that the zombies cannot host bijuu, the only exceptions seen being prior to Madara's revelation on the point. That exception was when Obito used the former hosts as Paths, except the special powers they possessed were the powers of the bijuu (sharingan and rinnegan as well, but that's implant and besides the point).

So without breaking out into cumbersome details, it's canon that ordinary Edo zombies cannot host bijuu.

[Trev]

I suppose that is a good point, I forgot they got their biju powers from the chakra rods and that the biju were still in the mazo.

Anyway, to reiterate the rules:
- Limit Edo Tensei to only 3 summonings per battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used per bijuu battle
- 15% of chakra should be the cost for each summoning and permanently lost for the duration that the Edo is active.  So summoning the max of 3 zombies equals a loss of 45% of the summoner's total chakra pool.  Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 15% for that summon.
- Regeneration Rule
- As long as Edo Tensei is being used, the user can only use defensive moves.  And these defensive moves can't be used in the motions of an attack.
- Alts & NPCs are not allowed to become Edo Tensei. You also can't trade alts with a friend for Edo Tensei zombies.  (If you can't trade sharingan eyes with friends anymore for the EMS you shouldn't be able to to trade Alts with friends to create mutual Edo Tensei.)
- 1:1 Ratio rule.  You can only summon as many Edo Tensei as there are opponents.  3 is the max.
- Teacher-Student rule.
- They cannot host biju

Those are the rules so far, with the regeneration rule replacing the damage rule (I took liberty and did the switch, as there wasn't too much support for the damage rule). The only things seemingly left to debate, before this gets locked (Hopefully) are that Kage suggested that 15% is not enough and should be 25% (I disagree) and Uetto ponders if free roaming zombies should still subtract chakra from the summoner (I once again say no, as you're no longer the summoner and not attached to them anymore) 

[Akasaka Rakudo]

Not that it matters but the bijuu WERE sealed back in the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki. Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails is all. They were still bound to the Mazo so Obito could reseal them if he needed to. It specifically says the bijuu were resealed into their hosts. I also agree 25% is too much and that if you give up your zombie then they can be on their merry way.

[Snap]

Not that it matters but the bijuu WERE sealed back in the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki. Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails is all.

The Ten-Tails is like the Egyptian God Cards of Yu-Gi-Oh! It is not legitmate in the RP World of SL. It has no effect, and can't be used for RP.

[Eric]

Those Edo zombies were used more like Paths than zombies, but fair point since technically they are still Edo Tensei zombies.

And I think the chakra cost should still be there. After all, if you let them go, while you don't need to exert your will to control them, I think you still have the chakra reduction cost. This is to prevent supposedly free-lance zombies coming back to help their original owners, thus allowing circumvention of the chakra pool rule.

[Akasaka Rakudo]

Not that it matters but the bijuu WERE sealed back in the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki. Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails is all.

The Ten-Tails is like the Egyptian God Cards of Yu-Gi-Oh! It is not legitmate in the RP World of SL. It has no effect, and can't be used for RP.

I was stating that, canon-wise, Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails. Madara stated you needed a living body to host the Juubi. The 10 tails is a hypocrisy on SL, if you are strong enough to get all 9 bijuu and the Gedo Mazo then you don't need the 10 tails, and probably just beat anyone who could fight you anyway.

[Trev]

And I think the chakra cost should still be there. After all, if you let them go, while you don't need to exert your will to control them, I think you still have the chakra reduction cost. This is to prevent supposedly free-lance zombies coming back to help their original owners, thus allowing circumvention of the chakra pool rule.

I disagree. If a zombie releases itself or I let it go, I can no longer control, summon, or release the zombie. Why should I continue to pay a chakra tax? Mind you, I think it was stated that for this rule, that the chakra won't replenish until I un summon them. This means, that if any got away, my chakra would constantly be down 15%, potentially 25% depending on what people rule.

[Eric]

And I think the chakra cost should still be there. After all, if you let them go, while you don't need to exert your will to control them, I think you still have the chakra reduction cost. This is to prevent supposedly free-lance zombies coming back to help their original owners, thus allowing circumvention of the chakra pool rule.

I disagree. If a zombie releases itself or I let it go, I can no longer control, summon, or release the zombie. Why should I continue to pay a chakra tax? Mind you, I think it was stated that for this rule, that the chakra won't replenish until I un summon them. This means, that if any got away, my chakra would constantly be down 15%, potentially 25% depending on what people rule.

Well then, I guess you better avoid letting them escape all willy nilly. If they intend on escaping, then you might want to either avoid summoning them or just tag them up. Just another one of those risks associated with the technique, which I thought were being added to this rule list in order to make it harder for the usage of Edo Tensei.

Regardless of the previous sentence, the point is that you brought the zombie back; whether or not it is under your control or not is beyond the point. It is still your zombie, your attachment, and the last thing we want is for people to loopholing around the chakra tax rule by just 'setting the zombie free' and being good friends with it. 

Or picking up the phone and calling in a favor for that matter.