Game Development > Discussions
Hyuuga Reset Revamp
Raifudo Oppa:
--- Quote ---I agree with this whole heartedly. The Byakugan is too much weaker than the Sharingan to promote anyone to actually pick it. The only ones even capable of leveling as fast as the sharingan are people will MAX resets in the Byakugan and even then, the smallest thing screws up their leveling that doesn't even hinder the Sharingan
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Y'know, there are people out there who can barely get a kill a day with the sharingan? Same goes with byakugan. Some people can only get a kill a day. Some people can get 3+ a day. This is excluding any other reset except those just mentioned.
--- Quote ---Generally what I get from Raifudo's post is that he believes they are supposed to be different, but they aren't just DIFFERENT. If you're honestly saying that the Byakugan is capable of leveling as fast as the Sharingan, then you're absolutely crazy. It can get similar results of one gameday kills when it has 3-4 resets. The sharingan can do it earlier, and BETTER. And after 50+ the Byakugans leveling just plummets as Kaiten starts to weaken against creatures. At higher kills, when closer to 100 and above it won't even be usable at it's rate of deteriorating use.
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I didn't say it's capable of leveling as fast as the sharingan; I wouldn't know unless I can register every mechanic and apply it. I said I can get 3 kills a day with JUST the byakugan with 1-2 resets. It just takes longer.
--- Quote ---Now, Raifudo I did notice you mention other resets. But let's be honest, the only LEVELING resets are Dojutsu category and Sage arts category. The others are mainly for RP claims. The other resets have minor boosts to leveling at best in comparison.
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So, now you're saying only byakugan should be boosted because it should be comparable to the sharingan because they're in the same category? Well, you invest in other KGs too. Why cherry pick just the byakugan? As it is, other categories, like you said, only serve as minor boosts and RP claims. Why not see the byakugan like that? It already functions like kaguya and hachimon anyways.
--- Quote ---But it is true that the Byakugan even with it's different playstyle is just too much weaker than the sharingan as it is now. So if you want to say the two should play differently, then why don't you suggest a way to do that and have the Byakugan actually be as useful as the Sharingan and post some actual constructive criticism.
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Suggest a way to play differently? How am I supposed to do that when they already play differently? Just play the reset. Conserve your chakra, learn how different shops around the villages affect you, etc.
--- Quote ---The difference between sharingan -byakugan and Sage mode- Rinnegan. Is that they both are equal in power even in their playstyle differences.
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Equal in power? Are they? I can definitely register how sage mode is much more powerful than the rinnegan.
For instance, recalling correctly, Sage Mode's buff is usable in PvP.
sploofmoof:
Yes. Some people barely level with the Sharingan, but that's rarely because they CAN'T. It is more likely that their stat distribution and forest fights are just out of whack than the actual reset keeping them from leveling quickly.
So you're saying that it's okay that one reset is generally weaker than another in the same category? Maybe not everyone believes that they should be equal, but what sort of game balance is that?
And as well, the thread is focusing on one balance issue. The thread would get entirely too out of control if we talked about EVERYTHING in SL that needed to be balanced out accordingly wouldn't it? And it would be fine if the Byakugan was as powerful as Hachimon/Kaguya IF it was in the same category of resets. This game is pigeonholing us into picking the Sharingan because it's completely superior. And in a game where the community has decided that resets in game = power, this is a problem.
I meant you should suggest a way that they can play differently and still level as effectively as one another. And you're right, the Sage mode has some marked advantages over the Rinnegan, but the Rinnegan has advantages over the Sage mode. Example, at academy student, you can still summon the infamous three headed dog and leveling is a breeze, but at lower levels Sage mode isn't going to work AS WELL (it works, but it's just not as effective). They each have their strengths, but they balance out with each other in the end. And what is going on here is that the Sharingan and Byakugan do not balance out in the end.
And we have to keep in mind that this is a game, and games need balancing. Right now we have a massive population of Sharingan users, and some of that may be chalked up due to it's popularity in the series and with fans. But given how many people have alts we should be seeing more variation in the resets. Right now the only variation we DON'T have is in dojutsu resets. People pick Mokuton over Hyouton because of it's popularity/RP power. Taijutsu are even and done on preference. Rinnegan is picked a bit more due to it's popularity as well but it's overall balance is okay with Sage mode. But Sharingan and Byakugan? Staggering difference (which I know some of it comes from the Sharingans popularity) with NO incentive to make a Hyuuga character because no one wants to sit through the incredibly laborious leveling process when sharingan is available.
Raifudo Oppa:
--- Quote ---Yes. Some people barely level with the Sharingan, but that's rarely because they CAN'T. It is more likely that their stat distribution and forest fights are just out of whack than the actual reset keeping them from leveling quickly.
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Consider that argument for byakugan now.
--- Quote ---So you're saying that it's okay that one reset is generally weaker than another in the same category? Maybe not everyone believes that they should be equal, but what sort of game balance is that?
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No, I'm saying it's okay that a play style of one reset is completely different from the other.
--- Quote ---And as well, the thread is focusing on one balance issue. The thread would get entirely too out of control if we talked about EVERYTHING in SL that needed to be balanced out accordingly wouldn't it? And it would be fine if the Byakugan was as powerful as Hachimon/Kaguya IF it was in the same category of resets. This game is pigeonholing us into picking the Sharingan because it's completely superior. And in a game where the community has decided that resets in game = power, this is a problem.
I meant you should suggest a way that they can play differently and still level as effectively as one another. And you're right, the Sage mode has some marked advantages over the Rinnegan, but the Rinnegan has advantages over the Sage mode. Example, at academy student, you can still summon the infamous three headed dog and leveling is a breeze, but at lower levels Sage mode isn't going to work AS WELL (it works, but it's just not as effective). They each have their strengths, but they balance out with each other in the end. And what is going on here is that the Sharingan and Byakugan do not balance out in the end.
And we have to keep in mind that this is a game, and games need balancing. Right now we have a massive population of Sharingan users, and some of that may be chalked up due to it's popularity in the series and with fans. But given how many people have alts we should be seeing more variation in the resets. Right now the only variation we DON'T have is in dojutsu resets. People pick Mokuton over Hyouton because of it's popularity/RP power. Taijutsu are even and done on preference. Rinnegan is picked a bit more due to it's popularity as well but it's overall balance is okay with Sage mode. But Sharingan and Byakugan? Staggering difference (which I know some of it comes from the Sharingans popularity) with NO incentive to make a Hyuuga character because no one wants to sit through the incredibly laborious leveling process when sharingan is available.
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Well, let's rework the chakra use then. Let's make the hyuuga jutsu cost no chakra but byakugan cost 2 points still. Maybe increase the rounds from 9 to 15.
sploofmoof:
That argument doesn't work for the byakugan now because it isn't a lack of knowledge that keeps people from leveling well, it's the resets themselves. There are more issues to address than just extending the rounds that byakugan lasts for.
Kaiten doesn't scale well against enemies past 50 DK's and up.
Without some sort of buff to our stats or debuff to forest creatures we get hit entirely more often than Sharingan users even WITH Kaiten active.
We need more than just a chakra point rework. We need a general buff to the reset. Neji has tried doing a minor buff to the rounds that byakugan lasts, and the impact it had was good but overall lackluster. We're using the Byakugan to activate a jutsu that's power just isn't going to scale all too well.
I DO think that Byakugan should stay active indefinitely as the Sharingan does. Or even if it doesn't, we just get some sort of persistent buff like the Sharingan gives. Perhaps a buff for being born into the Hyuuga lineage that we can say comes from extensive training to hone one's taijutsu/whatnot. Sort of an automatic buff like the Rinnegan.
But as it is, a buff you have to spend chakra points continuously should either be VERY strong ( an example would be sage mode, but I'm not saying we should copy that entirely) and not like the Byakugan is at all right now. (which is just something we activate so we can use Kaiten, which then later fails us at higher levels)
KayentaMoenkopi:
I like the idea of Byakugan staying active indefinitely like Sharingan does. But after that I do not have much of an opinion to IF it even should be altered more than that.
I like the notion that each KG gives different buffs and acts differently. Kind of a left hand rout and a right hand route as the Kaguya and Gates are. But I would have to agree that with these doujutsu we do not have a left and right hand route...more like level ground and a mountain range.
As for Resets in RP...I have always hated ingame abilities being used for RP. I believe that RP powers should be earned through RP. These are two separate factions in my mind about the whole SL experience. The game mechanics for leveling and the RP storyline and character building.
I don't see why one should depend upon the other. It certainly doesn't go both ways back and forth!
but that is another topic and not the one at hand.
I don't want these to be equal though in all but name. What is the point of that?
the buffs should effect the game mechanics differently. But perhaps in a more evenly dispersed manner. What that might be?
Don't look at me! I haven't the faintest idea.
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