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Author Topic: Zone One  (Read 8937 times)

Hazama

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Zone One
« on: April 25, 2014, 04:47:34 AM »

To avoid having unneeded arguments between myself and a certain other person, I've decided to bring things to the forums.

In Zone One, there has been an issue. Kayenta suddenly wishes to move a public RP into her clan halls and to make it invite only, all on illegitimate claims.

To explain things a bit more thoroughly;

Kayenta, InazawaTai, Kage, Warren, and Eric are all within some temple within the deserts of Sunagakure. Well, Eric and Warren are Jinchuuriki, respectively the Five Tails and One Tail. And, to add to that, Eric is also currently within Sage Mode.

Now, on the other side of the coin is myself. I am currently entering the zone upon a clay bird with my partner. My partner, Chiyo, is within Perfect Sage Mode right now and claimed to sense the faint area of where they all are. And, which it being Perfect Sage mode, I think that claiming another sage is fine, especially if that Sage is a Jinchuuriki but someone in Sage Mode should be able to just pick up on a Jinchuuriki alone.

I understand that Kayenta may not like the way that I've found them all in RP, but it's all been done in legit RP and instead of getting into an unneeded argument of tit or tat between her and I, I've brought it to the attention of the public.

I am done arguing about these things within a public zone and want to bring it to the forums, where everything else is handled.
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Darkshinobi

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 04:52:45 AM »

There are a few things being contested here:

1. Immediately sensing the two Jinchuuriki upon entering the zone.

2. Whether Chiyo's powers are legitimate or not.

3. If Kay has the right and ability to enforce that this roleplay be moved into a private setting.

I'll post again soon addressing these topics.
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Re: Zone One
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 05:00:11 AM »

1. The Sahara desert (the second biggest desert on the planet) is over 9,400,000 square kilometers. The desert of Sunagakure is the biggest known in the Naruto world; it could presumably be bigger than the Sahara. This is zone one. How good is your sensory prowess, in sage mode? Does it give a range of a hundred square kilometers? If so, that's insanely powerful -- and still almost nothing compared to the size of the zone.
We generally travel the same few routes: Konoha to Suna, the sands directly around Suna, and so forth. The current location is an obscure, obsolete one; it's not the most obvious area. My thoughts on this are that it should take at the very least a few turns before one would pick up on any chakra source, even with the massive source of chakra.

2. Emperatriz Chiyo; she's in full blown Sage Mode with extreme chakra sensory prowess. It's her abilities that is claimed to be able to find the Bijuu.
Under normal conditions, this is absolutely true. Her character has rebirths, everything checks out.
However, her previous character died, by the intelligence of two resources, two or three days ago. These powers she boasts have not been trained in role-play; they are completely fresh, they have not been trained at all, yet she is a master of Senjutsu.
Is this legal? Is this liable? I think a new precedent needs to be set here: what's the importance of rebirths versus being trained in role-play?

3. The short answer here is: no. There are two Jinchuriki in this public roleplay. Being a Jinchuriki is taking on the responsibility of possible attackers at any time. This was the most recent ruling. In my opinion, this role-play needs to be public if it is canon.
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Trev

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 05:03:43 AM »

Meh, all I'll add since I don't care too much.

Straight from the wiki.

"Jinchūriki are to be hunted in-character. As a requirement, knowledge as to their identity and location are mandatory to possess in order to legitimately locate them (not so much the latter if the jinchūriki is constantly roaming outside of a village).

Identity can be discovered if it's made common knowledge within a village and word gets around. Additionally an incredibly skilled sensor or another jinchūriki can sense and identify them if they're nearby within the same zone.

Location can be discovered through common knowledge similarly with identity. In the case of wandering jinchūriki, entering the zone they're in by chance and then using a sensor/jinchūriki is sufficient enough to locate them (so long as they have no safeguards preventing sensing up)."

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Tailed_Beasts

Interpret these words as you wish.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:08:14 AM by Trev »
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Kage

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 05:05:40 AM »

Can we just take a second to look back three pages?
Quote
(1d7h) <KT> Nara Eric * friend and patron to Kayenta, and no doubt...
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai ws about to open her mouth to engage in discourse on these exceedingly interesting topics, when Eric's interruption brought her swiftly back to reality. "Please excuse me Rita. I would love to spend weeks going over the items found with you.+
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai +Perhaps after we complete this project we could do just that very thing. I confess it hs been a very long time since I have had someone with as keen an interest as you to...show them off to." She smiled dearly wishing to discourse upon that+
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai + further. However..."Oh but Eric is right to keep us on target. Security is a major issue." She would look to the Nara and Uchiha saying, "I wish to mask the site from all detection. We will be expending great amounts of chakra and that+
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai + is sure to attract the attention of treasure hunters. But chakra use can be masked too. Hiding the whole complex from detection. With shadow, light, sound, and natural energies...surely we can disappear from the face of the world!"
(1d3h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi would nod her head in agreement. "I shall send Warren a bunshin to clue him into what we are about. I have it in mind to use the isolation jutsu over the complex to effectively remove us from the world's ability to perceive. Unless someone else+
(1d3h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +has a better idea?" Forming kata soon produced the desired effect of second Moenkopi decked out in work clothes. Without words the clone darted into the depths of the temple to relay the intention to deal with security. When it found Warren, +
(1d3h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +unless hindered in some manner, it would do just that. Meanwhile, Moenkopi would head toward the exit unless someone spoke up to propose and alternate solution. It flitted through her mind swiftly, the past as it often did in the presence of +
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +some such triggering event. Dokubou no jutsu [Isolation Cell Technique]...her sensei had taught her this neaarly ten years ago when she had been expecting Nayeli during their training in Kumogakure. It was designed to keep chakra inside +
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +preventing any from escaping during the volatile time in which a bijuu was sealed to a host. It had a wonderful side effect though, you could not sense chakra inside or being used to sustain it for it was a closed system. The structure itself+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +caused light to bend round it, instead of allowing it to bounce off its surface. Without light rays bouncing off its surface to the eye of a viewer, it was essentially invisible. With light being bent you could in fact see the other side without+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +hinderance. She smiled recalling using it in the presence of Raifudo when Zenaku was sealed with the bijuu. When Darkshinobi was sealed with the Yonbi. When Zojin was sealed to her beast and CJ and Warren to the Shukaku. And in the presence of+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +Cmage as well. It took a lot out of her initially but afterwards due to it being closed system, it sustained itself nicely. Fortunately she had never needed the fail safe that was placed upon it. Should she be killed before releasing the jutsu+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +via a series of kata, the jutsu would continue to sustain itself from the chakra of those within the cell. This would insure that no bijuu would escape this isolation to reek destruction upon the world. The jutsu would feed upon its chakra until+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +there was none left to be had. Only then would it finally fail. But by then? Everyone inside including the bijuu would be drained to death. She had to smirk. Such a thing had never been required.

> (21h49m) <||||> Uchiha Kage sighed in relief, from knowing that there weren't any traps activated from the short inspection he made. "Well either way, this place seems stable enough to me." He would then turn his head to Kay, "I'll help with the renovations and [c]
> (21h46m) <||||> Uchiha Kage [c] stuff. The sooner it's done, the sooner we can move this place wherever else." After Kay had made a clone, he would follow behind it closely, so that he wouldn't have any chance of getting lost.
> (17h14m) <KT> Nara Eric Isolation jutsu complex? Eric had admittedly never heard of it; sounded like a barrier technique, considering the context. Of course, he woudl have littlle to no knowledge of anything else. Rita seemed quite dissapointed, but did not voice (c)
> (17h1m) <KT> Nara Eric her concerns as of yet. "WEll then, I guess we're with you Tai. Lead the way to whereever we need to be." She hoped that it would be the antique room, but patience mode had been engaged at this point.
> (12h18m) <風> Warren was given all kinds of information in one go, especially when two of his clones elsewhere had disappeared at last. Add on top of it Kage showing up to apparently help with clearing the hallway he was working on? Plenty reason for blinking indeed.+
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Suishou Koji

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 05:07:18 AM »

Concerning issue 1, because that happens to be the only issue concerns me right now, I still don't see a legit way to discover a Bijuu host that is within a zone and your character is no where near that location however you still are able to locate him. Sage Mode is not suppose to work that way. That's god-modding or metagaming or both.

If the characters got a tip from someone that was within that zone through rp, then that would make sense however this appears to not be the case. Still, it would normally take a few days for someone who is halfway across the realm to arrive near Suna, not right away. Remember real time still applies. Also, like Dark said in the zones, it should at least be three or four posts on discovering the Bijuu, not instantly.

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Darkshinobi

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 05:09:13 AM »

However, the post Kage just highlighted changes everything.

For those who don't like reading: Kayenta created a safeguard preventing chakra from being sensed. The rules clearly imply this as a possibility. This pretty much cancels out any chance of being able to sense the Jinchuuriki.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:09:40 AM by Darkshinobi »
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Suishou Koji

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 05:13:12 AM »

Oh well there ya go then.
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Trev

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 05:13:35 AM »

Pretty much was Dark just said. The whole size of the zone doesn't matter in regards to the rules, just that their in the zone. However, as a double edged sword here, the rules state that this can't be done if something is done to prevent sensing.
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Hazama

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 05:13:47 AM »

Meh, all I'll add since I don't care too much.

Straight from the wiki.

"Jinchūriki are to be hunted in-character. As a requirement, knowledge as to their identity and location are mandatory to possess in order to legitimately locate them (not so much the latter if the jinchūriki is constantly roaming outside of a village).

Identity can be discovered if it's made common knowledge within a village and word gets around. Additionally an incredibly skilled sensor or another jinchūriki can sense and identify them if they're nearby within the same zone.

Location can be discovered through common knowledge similarly with identity. In the case of wandering jinchūriki, entering the zone they're in by chance and then using a sensor/jinchūriki is sufficient enough to locate them (so long as they have no safeguards preventing sensing up)."

http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Tailed_Beasts

Interpret these words as you wish.

Issue number 1!
Quoting what Trev posted; In the case of wandering jinchūriki, entering the zone they're in by chance and then using a sensor/jinchūriki is sufficient enough to locate them (so long as they have no safeguards preventing sensing up).

Just so happens that Eric is a Wandering Jinchuuriki? No? Even so, it states that an incredibly skilled sensor can sense the Jinchuuriki and all that.

As for Koji, you don't think that Sage mode should grant sensing abilities? I don't think that makes any sense but I could be misunderstanding what you are saying.

Can we just take a second to look back three pages?
Quote
(1d7h) <KT> Nara Eric * friend and patron to Kayenta, and no doubt...
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai ws about to open her mouth to engage in discourse on these exceedingly interesting topics, when Eric's interruption brought her swiftly back to reality. "Please excuse me Rita. I would love to spend weeks going over the items found with you.+
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai +Perhaps after we complete this project we could do just that very thing. I confess it hs been a very long time since I have had someone with as keen an interest as you to...show them off to." She smiled dearly wishing to discourse upon that+
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai + further. However..."Oh but Eric is right to keep us on target. Security is a major issue." She would look to the Nara and Uchiha saying, "I wish to mask the site from all detection. We will be expending great amounts of chakra and that+
(1d3h) <KT> Her Divine Whateverness InazawaTai + is sure to attract the attention of treasure hunters. But chakra use can be masked too. Hiding the whole complex from detection. With shadow, light, sound, and natural energies...surely we can disappear from the face of the world!"
(1d3h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi would nod her head in agreement. "I shall send Warren a bunshin to clue him into what we are about. I have it in mind to use the isolation jutsu over the complex to effectively remove us from the world's ability to perceive. Unless someone else+
(1d3h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +has a better idea?" Forming kata soon produced the desired effect of second Moenkopi decked out in work clothes. Without words the clone darted into the depths of the temple to relay the intention to deal with security. When it found Warren, +
(1d3h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +unless hindered in some manner, it would do just that. Meanwhile, Moenkopi would head toward the exit unless someone spoke up to propose and alternate solution. It flitted through her mind swiftly, the past as it often did in the presence of +
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +some such triggering event. Dokubou no jutsu [Isolation Cell Technique]...her sensei had taught her this neaarly ten years ago when she had been expecting Nayeli during their training in Kumogakure. It was designed to keep chakra inside +
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +preventing any from escaping during the volatile time in which a bijuu was sealed to a host. It had a wonderful side effect though, you could not sense chakra inside or being used to sustain it for it was a closed system. The structure itself+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +caused light to bend round it, instead of allowing it to bounce off its surface. Without light rays bouncing off its surface to the eye of a viewer, it was essentially invisible. With light being bent you could in fact see the other side without+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +hinderance. She smiled recalling using it in the presence of Raifudo when Zenaku was sealed with the bijuu. When Darkshinobi was sealed with the Yonbi. When Zojin was sealed to her beast and CJ and Warren to the Shukaku. And in the presence of+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +Cmage as well. It took a lot out of her initially but afterwards due to it being closed system, it sustained itself nicely. Fortunately she had never needed the fail safe that was placed upon it. Should she be killed before releasing the jutsu+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +via a series of kata, the jutsu would continue to sustain itself from the chakra of those within the cell. This would insure that no bijuu would escape this isolation to reek destruction upon the world. The jutsu would feed upon its chakra until+
(1d2h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +there was none left to be had. Only then would it finally fail. But by then? Everyone inside including the bijuu would be drained to death. She had to smirk. Such a thing had never been required.

> (21h49m) <||||> Uchiha Kage sighed in relief, from knowing that there weren't any traps activated from the short inspection he made. "Well either way, this place seems stable enough to me." He would then turn his head to Kay, "I'll help with the renovations and [c]
> (21h46m) <||||> Uchiha Kage [c] stuff. The sooner it's done, the sooner we can move this place wherever else." After Kay had made a clone, he would follow behind it closely, so that he wouldn't have any chance of getting lost.
> (17h14m) <KT> Nara Eric Isolation jutsu complex? Eric had admittedly never heard of it; sounded like a barrier technique, considering the context. Of course, he woudl have littlle to no knowledge of anything else. Rita seemed quite dissapointed, but did not voice (c)
> (17h1m) <KT> Nara Eric her concerns as of yet. "WEll then, I guess we're with you Tai. Lead the way to whereever we need to be." She hoped that it would be the antique room, but patience mode had been engaged at this point.
> (12h18m) <風> Warren was given all kinds of information in one go, especially when two of his clones elsewhere had disappeared at last. Add on top of it Kage showing up to apparently help with clearing the hallway he was working on? Plenty reason for blinking indeed.+

Did you read that post yourself? Because I made sure before raising any arguments. Kayenta never ACTUALLY activated the barrier. She announced her idea for putting it up, listed what it could do, and then, for some weird reason, went on to list all of the people she used it around. And, once again, even if you want to try and argue that it was magically put up, even someone in the RP says it won't block Eric because he's in Sage Mode...
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Isano

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 05:17:54 AM »

1. I think you have to take in consideration  certain statements. For instance, Hono noted that this search had actually been going on for days in RP.
"<赤毛> Honō Uzumaki his idenity, until he spoke however, but that was a none issue. He was on a mission to collect information about Warren, the One-Tails Jinchuuriki.
<赤毛> Honō Uzumaki +
<赤毛> Honō Uzumaki |The thought of this non-combat mission bored him for days, though, he knew Riku could hear his thoughts and would punish him so Hono remained diligent. Though, these odd memories are faintly awaking of a man with Topaz eyes and green.. hair? +"
This has obviously been going on for some time (their tracking of Warren). They may have not posted it in the Zone, but you don't know what's happened let's say in PM or in a dwelling, etc. Then that would raise the question, can private RP carry into a public zone? The answer should be yes. Also, it's not as if it was "Hey! I'm over here, they're over there, let's go!" They acknowledged the fact that it had taken time. Also, jinchuuriki can sense jinchuuriki. Two jinchuuriki are present. As for Kayenta's safeguard, is it even legitimate?

2. As for Chiyo's powers, I don't know how I feel about that. Essentially, yes, she earned them as a player. But as a character, that's a bit questionable. But then, if a player earns the right to use it, can't they use it on another character as long as they note that it was taken from a past character? It would be like having someone start from scratch.

3. I agree with Darkshinobi's statement in regards to moving the RP.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:18:45 AM by Isano »
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Darkshinobi

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 05:18:47 AM »

Pretty much was Dark just said. The whole size of the zone doesn't matter in regards to the rules, just that their in the zone. However, as a double edged sword here, the rules state that this can't be done if something is done to prevent sensing.
I don't necessarily and completely agree with this. I agree that, eventually, a Jinchuuriki would inevitably be sensed. However for them to automatically sense someone upon entering even in such a huge area is completely illogical. I think that it should take up to a certain number of turns, depending on the size of the zone, for one to be sensed.

As to Kay's post, I'd call that a poetic license. Did she create the jutsu in describing? Possibly, description wasn't just for fun; there was a reason behind it. It could be argued that while describing, she raised the jutsu -- since she'd already typed that much, she didn't really feel the need to type the four or so words of "Kayenta activated the jutsu".

In such, it's a question for her. Did she intend to activate the seal with that post? If so, then it's active; if she intended to wait, then it's not active.

1. I think you have to take in consideration  certain statements. For instance, Hono noted that this search had actually been going on for days in RP.
"<赤毛> Honō Uzumaki his idenity, until he spoke however, but that was a none issue. He was on a mission to collect information about Warren, the One-Tails Jinchuuriki.
<赤毛> Honō Uzumaki +
<赤毛> Honō Uzumaki |The thought of this non-combat mission bored him for days, though, he knew Riku could hear his thoughts and would punish him so Hono remained diligent. Though, these odd memories are faintly awaking of a man with Topaz eyes and green.. hair? +"
This has obviously been going on for some time (their tracking of Warren). They may have not posted it in the Zone, but you don't know what's happened let's say in PM or in a dwelling, etc. Then that would raise the question, can private RP carry into a public zone? The answer should be yes. Also, it's not as if it was "Hey! I'm over here, they're over there, let's go!" They acknowledged the fact that it had taken time. Also, jinchuuriki can sense jinchuuriki. Two jinchuuriki are present. As for Kayenta's safeguard, is it even legitimate?
I love the person behind Hono; he's a real-life friend of mine and I have his back, but -- and I'm sorry -- this is illegitimate.
Hono's post in zone one was 5 hours exactly from the time of this post.
(5h21m) <赤毛> Honō Uzumaki cleans up a little before going away from the crowds to smoke.
> (5h18m) <赤毛> Honō Uzumaki would exit Sunagakure gates heading far off towards the edge of the lad of wind. {EXIT}

And before that:

(22h32m) <赤毛> Honō Uzumaki ponders what teh heck is going on at the gates?

--

(23h15m) <赤毛> Honō Uzumaki being the guard for the wedding, he made his way around to the back side of the alter to keep track of all the guest and makes sure nothing goes wrong.

(23h6m) <赤毛> Honō Uzumaki thinks about how many beautiful ladies are in this family.

Honō wasn't stalking the Ichibi; he was attending a wedding. I feel that he thinks he can control it so that, after he left the wedding, he stalked the Ichibi for some time -- but that's not how it happens. The wedding is going on simultaneously to what's going on in zone one. For all intents and purposes, Honō just arrived to the sands.

Is Kay's safeguard legitimate? Yes, safeguards have been shown; she  is a master of chakra. She's been around long enough to justify that.

2. As for Chiyo's powers, I don't know how I feel about that. Essentially, yes, she earned them as a player. But as a character, that's a bit questionable. But then, if a player earns the right to use it, can't they use it on another character as long as they note that it was taken from a past character? It would be like having someone start from scratch.

Her previous character's dead and gone. She has an account now, yes, but hasn't trained up that new character's skills. This is an argument we need verified: how does the Rebirths vs RP scale work? Things need to be emoted, trained; and yet we put such emphasis on rebirths.
I personally feel Chiyo's character should have some skill in her traits, but they shouldn't be mastered until she's trained them.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:27:36 AM by Darkshinobi »
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Trev

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 05:28:53 AM »

As to Kay's post, I'd call that a poetic license. Did she create the jutsu in describing? Possibly, description wasn't just for fun; there was a reason behind it. It could be argued that while describing, she raised the jutsu -- since she'd already typed that much, she didn't really feel the need to type the four or so words of "Kayenta activated the jutsu".

In such, it's a question for her. Did she intend to activate the seal with that post? If so, then it's active; if she intended to wait, then it's not active.


Sl usually runs by the system if you didn't say it, it didn't happen. Examples Bocc once used Doton: Domu but didn't stated how hard his skin was, so it didn't matter. I got Bocc in Ephermal, but because I never said it, it didn't matter. Crappy system, but that's how the judges have usually ruled.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 05:32:29 AM »

Alright I'll add to this.

First off addressing the powers that Chiyo has. Everyone shut the hell up. Complaining about her character having just died and now claiming mastery over her reborns. Who hasn't done that? I've seen some of you here do it as well. You cannot void something that most of the players do. plain and simple. That issue doesn't need to be touched unless you want to make a new topic about everyone who has done this.

As for finding a bijuu IC. The way this is set up is that you'd have to spend about 5 real days to find the host and by that time most rps are done. If I were in Iwa and they are rp'ing in Suna. I would have no way in character to know. I'd have to first travel to Suna (Make up a bullshit reason to go), ask the locals there and learn about the bijuu. Then wait for the next time the host posts. A lot don't have such patience.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:34:39 AM by Shadowxx »
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Isano

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 05:35:26 AM »

But also, game time is different from real time. What is it? Three or four days to every real day? It can altered a bit based on that. So he may have posted hours ago for real, but according to time on SL, it's been days. I think with that one can be flexible.

And I wasn't meaning are safeguards legitimate, I'll rephrase that. Was it legitimate of her to use it at that time without prior knowledge that someone was coming? But, this I talked to Haz about, so we don't really need to go over it again.

As for poetic license, if she didn't state it, it didn't happen. You have to be descriptive yet blunt when it comes to these things.
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