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Author Topic: Zone One  (Read 8938 times)

Isano

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2014, 06:10:55 AM »

After this I will leave.

To Darkshinobi: Thanks!

Now, quite honestly, Kayenta, why do you have to speak to people so nastily? There's no need to be condescending.

Now I'm done.
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Hazama

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2014, 06:13:23 AM »

Isano...jsut so you know...this is not how legit rp is done.

Quote
But, as Darkshinobi said, Hono has been in Suna for a wedding. It can be implied that perhaps he got information. For the sake of speeding it up, it could have been done not in the public eye. He could have gathered information while in Suna about Warren, no? Then he could have passed the information along IC through means of such things like messenger birds, no? And if that is claimed, then their knowledge that Warren is in the area at least is legitimate.

you actually have to have done these things. You cannot go back later and say oh this is how it worked...that is called Retroposting.

That is NOT retroposting...
An example of retroposting is;
Student number one jumps backwards, preforms handseals, and causing wind blades to shoot out as his opponent.
Opponent number one grabs Student Number One's foot before he can fully jump back, grabs his foot, and swings him around like Loki.

That cancels out all of Student Number One's post, and THAT is a retropost...

Sorry, I just don't want people to be misinformed.
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Bocchiere

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2014, 06:30:26 AM »

Should we maybe get Warren's opinion on this whole thing? .-.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2014, 06:32:26 AM »

Bocc for the love of god stop making sense! D: That'd ruin it all.
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Eric

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2014, 07:17:24 AM »

There are a few things being contested here:

1. Immediately sensing the two Jinchuuriki upon entering the zone.

2. Whether Chiyo's powers are legitimate or not.

3. If Kay has the right and ability to enforce that this roleplay be moved into a private setting.


Long story short: (1) Yes, (2) Legit under the circumstance, and (3) Somewhat


1) RP Biju rules permits this, regardless of the expanse of the desert. Even still, they did not specify that they knew exactly who they were sensing, or even quite how far away they were from the temple's location. Kay, as I read, did not put up the barrier, though she reminisced about the abilities and history of it. It is not poetic liscence Dark; you may not have been around, but everytime I butt heads with Bocc regarding a post in a fight the two of us were fighting, for whatever reason, the post was taken as it was posted, with possible implications based on the content.

Quote
Meanwhile, Moenkopi would head toward the exit unless someone spoke up to propose and alternate solution. It flitted through her mind swiftly, the past as it often did in the presence of +
(1d4h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +some such triggering event. Dokubou no jutsu [Isolation Cell Technique]...her sensei had taught her this neaarly ten years ago...

She did not execute the technique. Her last action for that turn was walking towards the exit. Thus, the barrier cannot inhibit sensing until her next turn when she presumably puts it up. Once she puts it up is a discussion for next turn as to whether senjutsu can still be sensed, as senjutsu and not natural energy is chakra, and chakra is said to be blocked from escaping the barrier.

As for this turn, I find their arrival methods legit and on line with typical RP biju hunting regs. Kamui attacking me in my hotel room I cite as "typical".

2) If she has the resets for the powers in question, then it is legit unless they were taken away from her IC (getting eyes ripped out, etc.)

Quote
...while they weren't quite near Sunagakure, it was never too early to begin searching for -
> (11h24m) <暁> Emperatriz Chiyo - the host of the Biju, they'd began their search here in the homeland of the Ichibi. They managed to cover a rather large distance in a short amount of time before her senses finally locked onto a massive chakra source, one that displayed -
> (11h22m) <暁> Emperatriz Chiyo - chakra similar to her own whilst in Sage Mode, she focused further onto the energy attempting to locate the source yet only grasping a slight trail...

The main issue is the choice of reason here. Yes, you can lock onto a "massive" chakra force, a sage perchance, but unless you knew that the host you were looking for was a sage, there would be no reason to focus in on a sage considering how prevelent they are in the SL world.

It can be argued that finding a sage might equate to finding life and thus the beast, but finding senjutsu (specifically like her own, she is a non-host, thus she is not taking into account any added tailed beast influence. Though there would be none to be sensed, that would alter the overall chakra feel) in the middle of a desert would not equate potential host.

Quote
...such large reserves were rare and common only in Jinchuriki, perhaps they had located their target already? Maybe.

The main reason this would pass is because of the tailed beast rules. Having the ability to pick out a senjutsu user, okay, but determining that their chakra reserves rival that of a jinck? Considering the character that currently has sage mode active is around folks like Kage, Kayenta, and, yes, Warren, then unless they were within sight distance of the temple's enclave, picking out specifics like that is a stretch.

It can be claimed that they are within sight range of the temple's enclave, and that upon exiting Kay and Cage may be able to see them approaching. 

And it cannot be said that she was noticing the blend of chakras; because it is specified that the signature that is picked up is the one that has senjutsu attached. Ironically enough, this would not even be the Ichibi's chakra, as Warren is not in sage mode (and may not even be a sage for that matter).

So, under normal circumstances, I would call for a repost (principle good, detect sage in the middle of the desert, execution, detecting a sage with reserve rivalling that of the average jinck a little sore) but as stated in (1) implicitly, the ability for a powerful enough sensor to detect a jinck in the zone is granted by the rules of RP biju fights. So, if it were a regular piece of RP with no tailed beast rules applied, I would advise a repost or request an argument as to why everything is fit perfectly as it is.

If the rules are not to be followed for any variety of reasons, the biju challenge is the only other given alternative by the community, in which case the ability to detect the jinck will likely be irrelevant as they will just issue a challenge rather than RP fight for it. That is not likely to become the case since I do accept the RP biju rules (for obvious reasons I am not into challenge, you can thank Tachi for that) and it is, by chance, my chakra that is being detected here.

3) Kay has the ability to enforce that the RP be moved to the clan halls. Presuming she is not forced to give all involved an invite, the tailed beasts may be forfeited in exchange if the hosts have not been out of their home village for at least a week or something to that time extent. Otherwise, they would be permitted to be in a safe haven for a certain amount of time determined by the RP beast rules.

As this interferes with the right for other folks to RP as they choose (they want to hunt tailed beasts; we, the beast holders, implictly want to be hunted as we accepted the job in the first place) then on principle, Kayenta does not hold the "right" to take it to the halls.

But as stated in the above paragraph, she, and we who are participating, do have the ability to take it to the halls, though since that would step on the toes of other RPers, the least that could be asked is a compromise, the most likely of which to be accepted is, again, stripping of the beasts.
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Hazama

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2014, 07:38:33 AM »

There are a few things being contested here:

1. Immediately sensing the two Jinchuuriki upon entering the zone.

2. Whether Chiyo's powers are legitimate or not.

3. If Kay has the right and ability to enforce that this roleplay be moved into a private setting.


Long story short: (1) Yes, (2) Legit under the circumstance, and (3) Somewhat


1) RP Biju rules permits this, regardless of the expanse of the desert. Even still, they did not specify that they knew exactly who they were sensing, or even quite how far away they were from the temple's location. Kay, as I read, did not put up the barrier, though she reminisced about the abilities and history of it. It is not poetic liscence Dark; you may not have been around, but everytime I butt heads with Bocc regarding a post in a fight the two of us were fighting, for whatever reason, the post was taken as it was posted, with possible implications based on the content.

Quote
Meanwhile, Moenkopi would head toward the exit unless someone spoke up to propose and alternate solution. It flitted through her mind swiftly, the past as it often did in the presence of +
(1d4h) <KT> DesertDweller KayentaMoenkopi +some such triggering event. Dokubou no jutsu [Isolation Cell Technique]...her sensei had taught her this neaarly ten years ago...

She did not execute the technique. Her last action for that turn was walking towards the exit. Thus, the barrier cannot inhibit sensing until her next turn when she presumably puts it up. Once she puts it up is a discussion for next turn as to whether senjutsu can still be sensed, as senjutsu and not natural energy is chakra, and chakra is said to be blocked from escaping the barrier.

As for this turn, I find their arrival methods legit and on line with typical RP biju hunting regs. Kamui attacking me in my hotel room I cite as "typical".

2) If she has the resets for the powers in question, then it is legit unless they were taken away from her IC (getting eyes ripped out, etc.)

Quote
...while they weren't quite near Sunagakure, it was never too early to begin searching for -
> (11h24m) <暁> Emperatriz Chiyo - the host of the Biju, they'd began their search here in the homeland of the Ichibi. They managed to cover a rather large distance in a short amount of time before her senses finally locked onto a massive chakra source, one that displayed -
> (11h22m) <暁> Emperatriz Chiyo - chakra similar to her own whilst in Sage Mode, she focused further onto the energy attempting to locate the source yet only grasping a slight trail...

The main issue is the choice of reason here. Yes, you can lock onto a "massive" chakra force, a sage perchance, but unless you knew that the host you were looking for was a sage, there would be no reason to focus in on a sage considering how prevelent they are in the SL world.

It can be argued that finding a sage might equate to finding life and thus the beast, but finding senjutsu (specifically like her own, she is a non-host, thus she is not taking into account any added tailed beast influence. Though there would be none to be sensed, that would alter the overall chakra feel) in the middle of a desert would not equate potential host.

Quote
...such large reserves were rare and common only in Jinchuriki, perhaps they had located their target already? Maybe.

The main reason this would pass is because of the tailed beast rules. Having the ability to pick out a senjutsu user, okay, but determining that their chakra reserves rival that of a jinck? Considering the character that currently has sage mode active is around folks like Kage, Kayenta, and, yes, Warren, then unless they were within sight distance of the temple's enclave, picking out specifics like that is a stretch.

It can be claimed that they are within sight range of the temple's enclave, and that upon exiting Kay and Cage may be able to see them approaching. 

And it cannot be said that she was noticing the blend of chakras; because it is specified that the signature that is picked up is the one that has senjutsu attached. Ironically enough, this would not even be the Ichibi's chakra, as Warren is not in sage mode (and may not even be a sage for that matter).

So, under normal circumstances, I would call for a repost (principle good, detect sage in the middle of the desert, execution, detecting a sage with reserve rivalling that of the average jinck a little sore) but as stated in (1) implicitly, the ability for a powerful enough sensor to detect a jinck in the zone is granted by the rules of RP biju fights. So, if it were a regular piece of RP with no tailed beast rules applied, I would advise a repost or request an argument as to why everything is fit perfectly as it is.

If the rules are not to be followed for any variety of reasons, the biju challenge is the only other given alternative by the community, in which case the ability to detect the jinck will likely be irrelevant as they will just issue a challenge rather than RP fight for it. That is not likely to become the case since I do accept the RP biju rules (for obvious reasons I am not into challenge, you can thank Tachi for that) and it is, by chance, my chakra that is being detected here.

3) Kay has the ability to enforce that the RP be moved to the clan halls. Presuming she is not forced to give all involved an invite, the tailed beasts may be forfeited in exchange if the hosts have not been out of their home village for at least a week or something to that time extent. Otherwise, they would be permitted to be in a safe haven for a certain amount of time determined by the RP beast rules.

As this interferes with the right for other folks to RP as they choose (they want to hunt tailed beasts; we, the beast holders, implictly want to be hunted as we accepted the job in the first place) then on principle, Kayenta does not hold the "right" to take it to the halls.

But as stated in the above paragraph, she, and we who are participating, do have the ability to take it to the halls, though since that would step on the toes of other RPers, the least that could be asked is a compromise, the most likely of which to be accepted is, again, stripping of the beasts.

Give this guy a medal... I like what he has put out there.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 07:51:20 AM by Hazama »
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Eric

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2014, 08:01:53 AM »

Give this guy a medal... And, just to say, if Warren was just like 'Oh hai, just take da beast' I'd drop all this and there'd be no talks of death... So, yay me?

Why would Warren just hand over the beast? If he has been out of sanctuary long enough, then he has the option to return to it if/when given a reason to do so. Depending on how he would go about that, this entire argument would suddenly become very pointless, as OOcly, his departure would defeat the purpose of you going out there in the first place.

How long has he been out of sanctuary? I have no idea, I haven't been stalking the dude's actions for the past month or so. What would happen if the temple became a sanctuary? Well... That's a river to cross if it comes to that.

 Either way, the RP can't just be shifted without some sort of compromise, but I bet Warren would accept a biju challenge before just handing it over.


You discount the whole time issue. as stated, the RP would have been concluded before anyone even started looking for the hosts. I don't agree with a lot of what you have said here eric.



My knowledge regarding what they did before getting into the zone is extremely limited, but considering the way I entered into the temple RP specifically, unless they crossed halfway across the world or something, I do not see how time would be an issue here.

As far as it goes, I and Warren are the only ones restricted from joining a private RP in the halls due to our obligations as jinckurii. You, Tai and Kage are free to proceed without hindrance in theory. In practice, it would make no sense for you to ignore the hunters.
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Chiyo

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2014, 11:06:48 AM »

Well, I figured I might as well join here a little and get a few words in or something because if I didn't that's be considered rude.

Now, I'll admit I'm rather new to RP as a whole and have never really taken part in the whole Biju thing..so, I'll leave the decisions regarding that to the 'Top Dogs' here.

I'm willing to repost and change my post as needed because it was probably flawed on multiple levels, but hey..learn from your mistakes right? ^.^

But hey, y'all get to witness my first post on the forums! Much love<3

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Hazama

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2014, 04:05:56 PM »

Chiyo, your post is fine. Everyone has stated this. Unless I've been reading everything wrong. And congrats on the first post on the forum! It's in an argument.

And being one a more level way of talking; Kayenta, what you are trying to say just wouldn't work here on SL. If your logic was used then any time something big happened, or when someone was 'found' in RP... They could just be all like,'I made that post two days ago! It's irrelevant!' Or something along those lines. I just don't think the claim makes much sense to me, but I could just be seeing things bias... Opinions?

And as for what Eric, that's what it boils down to. I don't mind that you want to berate my ways or RP or what I do in RP, god knows you've done it long enough, but all in all; Eric and Warren don't have that ability.

You want to move the RP, okay. Eric and Warren cannot partake in such an action, so that's where all of this conflict is really rising up. Barrier or no barrier, sensing arguments or not, the RP cannot just be moved...

And if you really want to move it, then compromises must be made. Because I did my RP, and just like you don't want your RP ruined by the way that others RP, I feel the same exact way about you. It's just that simple.
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Genesis

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2014, 04:15:00 PM »

Alright, this is a really weird subject because of conflicting ideals and what not.

Kayenta does and can exercise the right to rp with whoever she wants to RP with, which is completely fine. Most people are doing this because it's fun and since they get some kick out of it. So, I understand. And she also plays by a set of rules that most others don't play by, which is completely fine. Ex. voiding KG exchanges, earning everything by RP (Amen, hallelujah), etc.

Were this any normal rp, Kay would be completely fine and legit; her actions justified without question.

But, since this involves the bijuu, this throws a wrench into everything. I really don't know how to say this, but in the great words of Uncle Ben, "With great power, comes the responsibility."

And I don't mean to preach to the choir, hell, I'm probably the least qualified person here too. But, when rp'ing with bijuu, an entity that effects all of rp, that forces it's holder onto another playing field.

No longer can you play by your own rules, but you must play by the precedents set by SL, which is sad. I personally hate that all you need to make an OP character is a couple of resets, but that's for another thread.

Back to my point...I believe the heart of the matter lies in whether if rules and ideals set by an individual about rp weigh greater than the precedents set by a community.

TL;DR: Personally, I dislike rp'ing here due to the game breaking precedents set by the community (where my nerfs at?). But since I'm somewhat addicted to this place and can't go against the flow, I have to play by said crappy rules and ideals. Of course, one can rp by their own terms, which is fine, but when it comes to bijuu and "canon/public stuff", idk what to call this, then precedents and ideals set by a community go into effect, like it or not.

Of course, this is my most humble opinion; my two cents; words for thought. I believe most of things said here has been said already...so I just reiterated it.


Edit: Grammar; words
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:28:17 PM by Genesis »
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Bocchiere

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2014, 05:28:53 PM »

I don't really understand Kay's argument about the timeline. Obviously they are claiming to be there during the rp where the people they are sensing are there. I don't really understand how is saying that they cannot be there, but maybe she knows something that I do not.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2014, 05:41:20 PM »

"Back to my point...I believe the heart of the matter lies in whether if rules and ideals set by an individual about rp weigh greater than the precedents set by a community."

An individuals own ideals about certain matters are to be wiped away once they partake in rp in a public area and no less with 2 bijuu.

The bijuu should know that when they become a host they no longer rp publicly as they want, but by the standards set by the community. Kayenta isn't a host or any of that so in essence she can rp how she wants, however, she now has two people with her that are bound by a rule set, she is not. While I feel her emotions to some degree, that's the way it is. You are now rp'ing by their rules. If you don't want to abide by them than either the bijuu have to leave the rp or you do. You cannot rp two different ways at once.

That being said. I'm confused by this whole 'timeline' ordeal. Sl as a whole DOES NOT run on one time line. I could travel to Suna and than Kiri in 15 days if I rped it as such while in reality it's been a year. Once again it's because those not bound by rules can rp how they want.
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Hazama

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2014, 05:49:54 PM »

Since it was me who was leading the attack to get Warren, him and I decided to come to agree on terms.

We've come up with the best way to make both parties happy, or so we are hoping.

Here is what we came up with;
My whole RP and those who were on my side of the 'attack' are gone. Or, their entrance posts into zone one are voided. This way Kayenta should be satisfied, and the RP can carry on the way it was going to, even if that means moving it.

BUT, this is what I get in return;

Warren agreed to fight me like the times of old. We are going to have an old fashioned Bijuu fight. We pick a zone, we duke it out, and anything that happens in the fight doesn't affect our character. The only factor that can change IC from this fight is if I'm the winner and the Ichibi is now mine instead of Warrens.

IF we somehow finish our fight before that group RP finishes, then the changes won't go into affect until after that to because, lets be honest, it wouldn't make sense for Warren to suddenly not have the beast during any RP...

I want the opinions of those who have spoken on this thread and who are mainly involved in the RP to comment of they have any problems with this.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2014, 05:53:39 PM »

Sounds good to me.  ;)

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Re: Zone One
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2014, 05:55:47 PM »

Since it was me who was leading the attack to get Warren, him and I decided to come to agree on terms.

We've come up with the best way to make both parties happy, or so we are hoping.

Here is what we came up with;
My whole RP and those who were on my side of the 'attack' are gone. Or, their entrance posts into zone one are voided. This way Kayenta should be satisfied, and the RP can carry on the way it was going to, even if that means moving it.

BUT, this is what I get in return;

Warren agreed to fight me like the times of old. We are going to have an old fashioned Bijuu fight. We pick a zone, we duke it out, and anything that happens in the fight doesn't affect our character. The only factor that can change IC from this fight is if I'm the winner and the Ichibi is now mine instead of Warrens.

IF we somehow finish our fight before that group RP finishes, then the changes won't go into affect until after that to because, lets be honest, it wouldn't make sense for Warren to suddenly not have the beast during any RP...

I want the opinions of those who have spoken on this thread and who are mainly involved in the RP to comment of they have any problems with this.

I agree with that, the old way of getting a Biju is much simpler in my opinion but that's irrelevant right now. I feel that it's a fair compromise.
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