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Author Topic: Biju Rules And Special Conditions  (Read 5690 times)

Eric

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Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« on: November 21, 2014, 04:46:11 PM »

Alright, so the main question is, what about the main rules can be modified in our special rules location? I've recently made a major edit to mine which includes times regarding challenges. Reviewing after (not before) the fact that the main rules already had a 3 month cooldown, I ponder on whether I can circumvent that and allow people to challenge earlier if certain stiuplations are met (such as draws) or even if I am allowed to make alterations to that at all.

The yes argument would draw on:

Quote
ºRulesº
Like any other zone fight, rules are established as support for completing the quarrel without need for troubles to arise. Those basic rules are also adopted into host-challenges. The rules are as follows [unless agreed upon both parties (with proof) to be something otherwise]

The no argument would point out that this is for the actual conduct during the fight, not the overarching rules in general. As with federalism, I assume that one set of rules would supercede the other if there is a clash. While I again would pressume that the main rules would win out, I still ask the above question in case the above quote actually did mean the overall official rules.

The only issue with the latter unrestricted is that means people can kind of make up their own rules as they go. Seeing as I'm one of the few actually having biju fights here on the forum (*Others do have challengers, but since many of those fights happen off-forum, it is kind of hard to pinpoint what is going on there, and presumably they have not had any grievious questions of this sort) , the context for bringing this up would be my recent battle with Ichirou (which, btw,  has lasted longer post-count wise than any other zone fight I've been in in recent months if not years). I added the new special conditions as a direct response to the nature of that fight (nothing personal Ichirou, but I'm not eager to repeat that experience once a week without having some kind of guidelines in place).

So, back to my original question, can I alter the main rules with special conditions, or is that an illegal move?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 04:48:08 PM by Eric »
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Garō, Ichirou

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 06:20:11 PM »

xD when I saw that you had added those rules in I knew it was because of our little encounter, I apologize for such a drug out fight, it's usually not my style, and I promise things wont be as "Tower defense" as that fight was
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2014, 12:18:32 AM »

The rules can be changed on a fight by fight basis if both people agree to it. I would say the only exception would be if it is to the detriment of anyone else attempting to challenge for that bijuu. If it was they'd make a forum topic to confirm this.

So if you decide you want to change the rule that I think said 3v3 is the most a bijuu fight can be and want to have a 50v50 fight going on the next person on the challenger list could say, "Hey, that's completely asinine, and you're going to keep me waiting for roughly 2 years for no reason with that many people."
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Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2014, 01:13:16 AM »

It is hard for me to understand what exactly you are asking here because of all the legalese you are employing.

So dumb it down a bit?


In short, in the host's special rules, can s/he make a rule contradictory to the primary biju rules? The example of cooldown time was used because there was some context to it, but it is in fact contrary to what Bocc said becaue the number of particiapnts is granted:

Quote
3] ºDetermine the Details of the Matchº
The host and challenger, and only the host and challenger, must decide if the battle is to the death. They decide if others are permitted to participate [3v3 max] or if the match is 1v1. Will there be exclusions concerning what powers are to be used? Who will be the judge? Is a time limit proposed in which to complete the challenge?

What I'm talking about is something more along the lines of allowing the same challenger to challenge various times in a single month, which would not be the same:

Quote
ºChallenge Limitationsº
You may only challenge the same host for the same bijuu once every three months.

Or reducing the chance of dragged out stalemates by permitting, upon consent by both parties, for a judge to come in and prematurely declare a winner before the battle is conclusively done.

Quote
ºHow to declare a winnerº
The battle commences with the initial post & terminates once either combatant is unable to continue. Such a feat can result in several ways, including knock-outs (concussions, etc.), full paralysis, almost-fatal wounds & so forth. So long both parties declare it plausible & understand the longevity/risk of the claim, it's considered eligible for use. However, things can, of course, become debatable in attempt to reach such a goal & in doing so arguments are bound to commence. If need be, either party can have onlookers & such /dis/agree with the action until a verdict is reached. If desired, either party can have other hosts or officials of sorts represent them for a more "legitimized" (as some have called it) reasoning or "Back-up".

A judge prematurely ending the match because it goes on forever isn't really in line with the main rules for how a winner is declared.

That is putting it a little more clearly than I did the first time.
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2014, 07:46:19 AM »

Yeah like I said. You want to change some of the more concrete rules of the fight and you totally can.

If you want to have a bijuu fight where the winner is determined by who can use the word "potato" the most times in one post than go nuts.

I would say that for anything of that nature both parties have to consent though it cant be something you force in your custom rules.
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Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 06:33:52 PM »

Yeah like I said. You want to change some of the more concrete rules of the fight and you totally can.

If you want to have a bijuu fight where the winner is determined by who can use the word "potato" the most times in one post than go nuts.

I would say that for anything of that nature both parties have to consent though it cant be something you force in your custom rules.

The challenger either accepts my custom rules or does not fight me. And that's the reason this is something I feel worth sorting out. If I can completely and utterly make up my own rules, regardless of what the main rules are for jinchurikii, then it is almost like not having any rules at all.

If I really wanted to, with that in mind, I could handicap my challenger considerably. They would have to abide by my custom rules in order to proceed with fighting me, meaning that with my rules alone, in theory, I could turn away and reject many challengers.

I do not believe I have done such a thing in practice, but as the beasts shift around (particularly after you reset the world and all) people are going to find ways to hold onto the beasts for as long as possible, myself even included.

If we can completely ignore the rules and make up our own, then isn't that the same as having no rules at all governing the biju fights?
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2014, 06:53:12 PM »

You can't, or at least you should not be able to force the challenger to do anything too unreasonable.

The Jinchuriki can set their own rules like voids and such. But if it something that changes one of the bijuu rules instead of other rp rules then you shouldn't be able to force it.

So yes I can say "All of my challenges are going to be IC." and that I can insist be followed by all challengers.

I couldn't force people to agree to, let's be gratuitous here, that they cannot challenge me again for 5 years if they lose.

You just have to ask "Does this alter the core bijuu rules?" When making your own rules.

Because yeah of course being able to make rules for our own fights is an advantage, it's been decided long ago that it is fair due to how much junk you can be made to put up with. However it is our responsibility to police ourselves and the other Jinchuriki and make sure they're not trying to game the system.
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Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2014, 01:02:16 AM »

Quote
2] ºDetermine the Nature of the Challengeº
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge. This means that if an IC Challenge is chosen, the challenger has to RP learning the host’s identity and location and maneuvers him into a Match. This does not mean that the RP is used as a means for the Host to forever avoid having to face his challenger. The host must make it possible for the challenger to complete the terms of the RP event. This is not the battle part. You are going to face off with each other. You are just being creative about it.
If the OOC Challenge is chosen, then no RP concerning the challenge is performed. The details are agreed upon and the Match takes place.


So, is it technically against the rules then to have as a special condition that the match is OOC (or in the case of Bocc and others, IC)? And if so, would changing the conditions for victory also be against the rules, and thus impermissible in the special conditions box?

If so, then a slight adjustment on the special conditions for several people may be in order.
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 01:31:57 AM »

I disagree. If you want to fight me and take my bijuu I want to kill you. That's just how it works out. I'm the leader of Akatsuki and want to destroy the world, death should be expected when fighting someone like that.
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2014, 02:20:46 AM »

It's not character control to say you're dead if I ripped your soul out of your body and incinerated it.

It just seems silly that people should be able to get a fight with no down sides. Since I don't consider, "Please wait several months and get a few more resets before challenging again." to be a downside.

I'm the most capable murderer on the face of the earth right now I'd say it's more CC to say that there's someone I can't kill. xD
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UettoSenju

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 05:22:09 AM »

It's not character control to say you're dead if I ripped your soul out of your body and incinerated it.

It just seems silly that people should be able to get a fight with no down sides. Since I don't consider, "Please wait several months and get a few more resets before challenging again." to be a downside.

I'm the most capable murderer on the face of the earth right now I'd say it's more CC to say that there's someone I can't kill. xD

I'll soon put this to the test.

I have to agree with Bocc here. IF you want your challenges to be IC then they should be IC. That is not character controlling anything for the simply reason they have the choice on if they want to fight you or not. Bocc isn't saying that if you challenge him you die out right. He is saying if I have to bet my Biju then you should have to bet your life and as a bonus I'l bet my life as well.

I see nothing wrong with that. Really I think all Biju challenges should be IC. I mean you are fighting for a tailed beast here if you are scared of dying then honestly I don't feel you should be hosting a tailed beast to start with.
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Sabumaru

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 05:44:22 AM »

Any fight involving IC rewards really should be IC.
However, nobody wants to be RP-locked for months.

Lately it seems they're all "soft-IC". You can RP elsewhere but the results of the fight are real.
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2014, 05:53:15 AM »

Any fight involving IC rewards really should be IC.
However, nobody wants to be RP-locked for months.

Lately it seems they're all "soft-IC". You can RP elsewhere but the results of the fight are real.

I've done it that way almost without exception since my multi-month long battle with Luka for the 2 tails.
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Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 06:57:31 AM »


... your challenger does not have to accept a death match but you do have to accept the challenge.

So the challenger is not obligated to accept any of the preferences/conditions, and is only obligated to follow the tailed beast rules? Meaning that a challenger could refuse to comply with the special tape, and the host would need to modify accordingly? No sending away of non-compliant challengers?

Seems like my question(s) may have been answered already though from what I've read so far..
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Bocchiere

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2014, 07:01:15 AM »

So what was the point of listing how we want the challenges to be carried out if they can be ignored by everyone?

And the host has always been able to insist the fight be IC. Even back on the original bijuu rules.
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