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Author Topic: Biju Rules And Special Conditions  (Read 5691 times)

Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2014, 03:03:53 PM »

So what was the point of listing how we want the challenges to be carried out if they can be ignored by everyone?

And the host has always been able to insist the fight be IC. Even back on the original bijuu rules.

Well, I posted my special condition and part of the biju rules as the very first post when I did things here on the forum. I asked them that if they had anything that they disagreed with, they should speak up then and not once the fight begins.

So far, none of my challengers have had issues, but until recently my special conditions list was relatively short and hardly invasive. An OOC match with a few stipulations never hurt anybody.

I imagine that instead of that being a courtesy, it is more mandatory to see if the challenger has any issues with your preferences, and if they do, then you can bargain a thing or two.
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UettoSenju

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2014, 05:37:22 PM »

the fact still remains that you do not have to fight to the death in order to challenge for a bijuu and you can't refuse a challenge on that basis.

blah blah I can kill anything. so what? Doesn't mean we have to let you do it. but if you are going to be a host you have to accept the challenge.

that is non-negotiable.

your challenger does not have to accept a death match but you do have to accept the challenge.

So going off this logic I could challenge Bocc and say I'm going to use max KG resets and all and you can only use taijutsu because you can't deny me a challenge.....????????

Literally that is what you are saying. That you can not deny someone a challenge even if they do not agree to your terms. I feel that a host as being the host should have the right to set their conditions how they wish and the challenger should have to follow them. 

If that is against the rules then perhaps the rule needs to be reworked. I say we open it up for discussion on whether you can make all your matches be IC. I am sure there are more who would agree to this than disagree or it seems that way to me.
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Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 03:42:22 AM »

the fact still remains that you do not have to fight to the death in order to challenge for a bijuu and you can't refuse a challenge on that basis.

blah blah I can kill anything. so what? Doesn't mean we have to let you do it. but if you are going to be a host you have to accept the challenge.

that is non-negotiable.

your challenger does not have to accept a death match but you do have to accept the challenge.

So going off this logic I could challenge Bocc and say I'm going to use max KG resets and all and you can only use taijutsu because you can't deny me a challenge.....????????

Literally that is what you are saying. That you can not deny someone a challenge even if they do not agree to your terms. I feel that a host as being the host should have the right to set their conditions how they wish and the challenger should have to follow them. 

If that is against the rules then perhaps the rule needs to be reworked. I say we open it up for discussion on whether you can make all your matches be IC. I am sure there are more who would agree to this than disagree or it seems that way to me.


The only reason that mandatory death-match is a no is because it goes against the actual main biju rules. Something like maxed KG is something that you have a bit more liberty with, seeing as there is nothing against the rules against that.

Just like with the US, all powers not explicitly granted to the federal (main rules that a host cannot alter) are supposed to be reserved for the states (the host may customize it).

So it's not that the challenger can get away with absolutely anything. However, at the same time, there are certain things that the host just cannot force on a challenge. An IC or an OOC match apparently being one of them.
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UettoSenju

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 04:28:48 AM »

the fact still remains that you do not have to fight to the death in order to challenge for a bijuu and you can't refuse a challenge on that basis.

blah blah I can kill anything. so what? Doesn't mean we have to let you do it. but if you are going to be a host you have to accept the challenge.

that is non-negotiable.

your challenger does not have to accept a death match but you do have to accept the challenge.

So going off this logic I could challenge Bocc and say I'm going to use max KG resets and all and you can only use taijutsu because you can't deny me a challenge.....????????

Literally that is what you are saying. That you can not deny someone a challenge even if they do not agree to your terms. I feel that a host as being the host should have the right to set their conditions how they wish and the challenger should have to follow them. 

If that is against the rules then perhaps the rule needs to be reworked. I say we open it up for discussion on whether you can make all your matches be IC. I am sure there are more who would agree to this than disagree or it seems that way to me.


The only reason that mandatory death-match is a no is because it goes against the actual main biju rules. Something like maxed KG is something that you have a bit more liberty with, seeing as there is nothing against the rules against that.

Just like with the US, all powers not explicitly granted to the federal (main rules that a host cannot alter) are supposed to be reserved for the states (the host may customize it).

So it's not that the challenger can get away with absolutely anything. However, at the same time, there are certain things that the host just cannot force on a challenge. An IC or an OOC match apparently being one of them.

Unless the rule is changed which if the majority request it be than I shall be. Or is it so that the majority no longer determines what rules should be applied anymore.
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UettoSenju

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 05:02:54 AM »

And also sense Bocc can't deny an OOC challenge does that mean that Eric can't deny an IC one? That only seems fair to me. I just want to be sure though.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2014, 06:32:43 AM »

*adds to the overall deep thinking of the post* >,>
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Eric

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2014, 12:31:57 PM »

And also sense Bocc can't deny an OOC challenge does that mean that Eric can't deny an IC one? That only seems fair to me. I just want to be sure though.


Neither the challenger nor the host are supposed to be able to force anything on each other in that regard:

Quote
The host and the challenger, and ONLY the host and challenger, determine the nature of the challenge. BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge.

Among the negotiations that may be made at the very beginning of the match, whether it is IC or OOC or not is one of them. It is disallowed to have mandatory deathmatches, but that does not mean that you cannot have deathmatches.

Quote
The two will make all arrangements for when the match will begin and where. Should the Jinchuriki ignore or refuse the invitation(s)-with no reason given- 3 times consecutively, you may report it to other Jinchuriki. Subject for such an event's invitation, for proof & reference of a challenge, must be titled: (Number of tails) - (Name of Jinchuriki); the body of the message may be as you please (though manners & politeness would of course make things much smoother).

This suggests that a host can in fact refuse a biju challenge. However, a reason must be given, and it is reported to other jinchs (counselor flaw atm, but it's in there) if the challenger feels that the reason was not valid. If the "others" view the uncompromisable position that one host and one challenger cannot decide on whether it is to be OOC or IC, I presume a middle ground is instead attempted on the two in order to flesh out a solution.

If one still cannot be made, then considering the counselors in that situation, the challenger would likely then have to compromise on something in order to carry on with the challenge. The audience are jinchs, who are not going to want to be forced to do IC or OOC, so it would be uncanny of them to vote in that specific situation that the challenger gets their way, especially if another challenger down the list is willing to at least compromise on a give-take basis. So in practice, that would be a very bad thing to not be able to compromise on for the challenger.

So as far as your question Kirk, I can and I can't. I can deny all I want, but if it is deemed unreasonable (which would be practically the same as not giving a reason at all under that rule, unless that rule is made ONLY for if the host gives no reason to the challenger about why they refuse, in which case we are back to where we started with this thread in that the host does in fact have more welding power on the match's characteristics) then it would have to be taken to some court in order for a decision to be made.

A provision for such hasn't really been set up, obviously, especially if it is a jinch decision. While all jinchs have minds of their own, a cry of bias is not entirely unfounded, since we have our interests as fellow hosts as well to consider, though whether that affects our decision or not is up for future debate.

In the end, I say that if the challenger and the host cannot come to a compromise over something as simple as IC or OOC, flip a coin. Roll some dice. Because if the challenger attempts to get other jinchs to force other jinchs to do IC or OOC, they are probably not going to win that fight.
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Garō, Ichirou

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Re: Biju Rules And Special Conditions
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2014, 04:10:19 AM »

I had thought that it was negotiable for the challenge to result in either IC death or not, and that the rules could be changed on any agreements made between said challenger and host for that challenge, like if Eric's rules were "If we fight and you die, then you're dead IC," and I was like "Hey could we have this fight not result in IC death?" and he was like "Sure." then everything was cool, or is that how it is? I thought this was all about whether or not Eric could place a "This fight has gone on long enough, and is at a Stalemate." Rule
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