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Author Topic: Kage Bunshin  (Read 3022 times)

Rusaku

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Kage Bunshin
« on: March 04, 2015, 02:15:13 AM »

Ok boys and girls it’s time to go back to the basics.

I have always been under the impression that you can decide the chakra that goes into a Shadow clone, seeing as everyone and their mother has been doing this since the beginning of time. I.e putting 10% of your chakra into a clone so it may use certain jutsu before getting dispelled.

Here is my issue. In a fight I am currently having, I used the shadow clone and all seemed good, until my opponent replied. He stated that my clone did not have 10% of my chakra, it had 50% because in order to use shadow clone, I must distribute my chakra evenly. Now, I decided to take a look at the Wiki and it says the same thing. Naruto apparently splits his chakra evenly to use shadow clone technique, though this just seems false based on the context clues of the show. Naruto uses this on the daily to avoid taking a hit, and it just seems like sacrificing half of your chakra every single time you use it is asinine.

On plenty of occasions the Wiki has been wrong on the information that they post so I am gonna look to you guys and see what you think. Does Shadow clone distribute your chakra evenly even if you attempt to make it otherwise, or can you decide how much chakra each entity has?
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Keito Uzumaki

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2015, 02:20:45 AM »

Whomever made the assumption is generally correct. The Bunshin should be at half the power you normally are. Further more, if you continue to make more Shadow Clones the power is divided even then some. Though this shouldn't mean you make 1 shadow clone and you lose 50% of your chakra immediately. No. Naruto was shown to be able to withstand making many clones while in battle, although he is the nine tailed fox's host and what not, so not everyone's up to par with his prowess.

Simply put, making a clone will divide your original strength, given that there are now more of you than the original 1. But it is under my impression that once the clone serves its purpose and poofs away, you are granted whatever remainder chakra that was unused by him; as well as information it has learned along the way. Although there are many loopholes that can by bypassed to summon more clones, while sustaining a high amount of your own disposable chakra levels.
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Rusaku

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 02:30:10 AM »

Whomever made the assumption is generally correct. The Bunshin should be at half the power you normally are. Further more, if you continue to make more Shadow Clones the power is divided even then some. Though this shouldn't mean you make 1 shadow clone and you lose 50% of your chakra immediately. No. Naruto was shown to be able to withstand making many clones while in battle, although he is the nine tailed fox's host and what not, so not everyone's up to par with his prowess.

Simply put, making a clone will divide your original strength, given that there are now more of you than the original 1. But it is under my impression that once the clone serves its purpose and poofs away, you are granted whatever remainder chakra that was unused by him; as well as information it has learned along the way. Although there are many loopholes that can by bypassed to summon more clones, while sustaining a high amount of your own disposable chakra levels.

So what you're saying is...I'm a dumbass for thinking otherwise? xD Jk

The only reason I made this post is because I have only had this brought up to me just now, even after using the technique on such a regular basis since I started this game almost a decade ago. It just seemed like a surprise to me that it was a detail that was not brought up sooner. 
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sploofmoof

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 04:44:42 AM »

I believe Naruto's tendency to overuse shadow clones pretty much comes from a combination of being a jinchuuriki and having main character hax. 

Most other characters avoid using them because splitting up their chakra like that is typically not a great idea.  As well as the multiple shadow clone technique that naruto uses is technically a forbidden technique which should elude to it's chakra requirements.  (Of course after Naruto spamming it so often, people stopped being impressed by it.)



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Eric

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 06:19:44 AM »

I believe Naruto's tendency to overuse shadow clones pretty much comes from a combination of being a jinchuuriki and having main character hax. 

Most other characters avoid using them because splitting up their chakra like that is typically not a great idea.  As well as the multiple shadow clone technique that naruto uses is technically a forbidden technique which should elude to it's chakra requirements.  (Of course after Naruto spamming it so often, people stopped being impressed by it.)

Naruto spammed the legit multi shadow clone jutsu on the scale of dozens or even hundreds of him only 1-3 times in the series. All other times he only made 1-5 shadow clones at any one given time, so in the grand scheme of things, making that many would still be super impressive by canon series standards.

yes. I saw him call you a dumb ass.

*pinches bridge of nose and shakes her head*

Elemental clones are normally said to follow the 10% rule, near as I know. And Kage Bunshin do the even distribution rule. But we debated chakra recovery from clones recently here as well...


Pretty much what she said though regarding clone usage. I don't think you get the chakra back if the clone is defeated, though I'm not 100% sure on that one.
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Kage

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 04:48:30 PM »

By default, shadow clones disperse your chakra evenly, unless stated to be of a different ratio or percentage. Shadow clones also disperse if they take a strong-enough hit, since they're only barely tangible chakra constructs. Your (remaining) chakra and memories/experiences go back to your original self once your clone(s) disperse. Just note that the greatest consequence that this technique brings, is the one on your mind. This is seen with Naruto with his training in learning how to properly use his chakra nature, wind.

Wood Clones on the other hand, follow the same rules as shadow clones, except for their durability and how they disperse. They are able to take quite a bit more hits than a shadow clone, since they're made of solid constructs, as opposed to what we could call cloud-like ones. It's also been generally accepted that Wood Clones have an advantage to be used for far travels. While acknowledging this fact, we then acknowledge that other intagible clones such as shadow clones cannot have that advantage. Now when I say intangible, I mean that they don't have a base construct or nature other than chakra itself.

Now let's bring up the certain issue here: The Default

By this, I mean how a technique usually spawns without any other extra information from the user/poster. Below are two examples, along with the information broken down on what their actions spawned.

Quote
Acad uses Shadow Clone jutsu.
- 1 Shadow clone is spawned
- 50% of the user's chakra was put into it
- 50% of the user's chakra remains with them

Quote
Acad uses Shadow Clone jutsu to create two clones, each with 10% of their chakra.
- 2 Shadow clones are spawned
- 20% of the user's chakra was put into the usage of the technique
- 80% of the user's chakra remains with them
- 10% of their chakra is in each clone

Being a good RPer is about not only what finer details you put in, but also your analytical skills. Take note that different people have different levels of chakra as well. Just because 20% of chakra to an acad may seem like a chunk, doesn't mean that it's a whole lot when compared to someone else who has much higher levels of chakra, such as a kage.

I look at this taking into consideration that Naruto has much influence from Kurama's presence and chakra, even while he was still in the womb. It seems to be natural that those born from a Jinchurikki parent (at the time) will have a natural-born advantage over most when it comes to chakra prowess. Theoretically, putting them on an even advantage with those who bear Kekkei Genkai. But it's funny, that this is how Kekkei Genkai were spawned in the first place.
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Rusaku

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 05:39:07 PM »

By default, shadow clones disperse your chakra evenly, unless stated to be of a different ratio or percentage. Shadow clones also disperse if they take a strong-enough hit, since they're only barely tangible chakra constructs. Your (remaining) chakra and memories/experiences go back to your original self once your clone(s) disperse. Just note that the greatest consequence that this technique brings, is the one on your mind. This is seen with Naruto with his training in learning how to properly use his chakra nature, wind.

Wood Clones on the other hand, follow the same rules as shadow clones, except for their durability and how they disperse. They are able to take quite a bit more hits than a shadow clone, since they're made of solid constructs, as opposed to what we could call cloud-like ones. It's also been generally accepted that Wood Clones have an advantage to be used for far travels. While acknowledging this fact, we then acknowledge that other intagible clones such as shadow clones cannot have that advantage. Now when I say intangible, I mean that they don't have a base construct or nature other than chakra itself.

Now let's bring up the certain issue here: The Default

By this, I mean how a technique usually spawns without any other extra information from the user/poster. Below are two examples, along with the information broken down on what their actions spawned.

Quote
Acad uses Shadow Clone jutsu.
- 1 Shadow clone is spawned
- 50% of the user's chakra was put into it
- 50% of the user's chakra remains with them

Quote
Acad uses Shadow Clone jutsu to create two clones, each with 10% of their chakra.
- 2 Shadow clones are spawned
- 20% of the user's chakra was put into the usage of the technique
- 80% of the user's chakra remains with them
- 10% of their chakra is in each clone


This is always what I was lead to believe. If I decided the clone should have less than half my chakra, then it had less chakra.
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Warren

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 05:57:04 PM »

Nothing saying a kage bunshin can't have less than half, you just pay the price of disguise, cause with uneven it becomes possible to see who's the real one and who's the fake.
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Mei

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 01:51:32 AM »

Nothing saying a kage bunshin can't have less than half, you just pay the price of disguise, cause with uneven it becomes possible to see who's the real one and who's the fake.

From start to finish, the manga has shown on every occasion that when using Kage Bushin no Jutsu, your chakra is being evenly distributed among the clone(s).

In addition, you do not think you get the remaining chakra back from the clone after it gets disperses.
http://endless-naruto.com/manga/index.php?id=423&page=20#
Kakashi had 1/2 of his chakra remaining after his clone got killed.
I would assume if you undid the technique yourself, you would get the chakra back.

If you want to make a clone with less than 50% chakra, just make an elemental clone like what Kayenta has stated earlier.

 For a moment, let's say this is possible, there's no advantage in doing so. Doujutsus that can see chakra flow can distinguish the difference if the chakra is not evenly distributed. Unless your opponent is considerably weaker than you, it should not take long for an opponent to defeat it imo.
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Becquerel

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 02:45:56 AM »

From start to finish, the manga has shown on every occasion that when using Kage Bushin no Jutsu, your chakra is being evenly distributed among the clone(s).

In addition, you do not think you get the remaining chakra back from the clone after it gets disperses.
http://endless-naruto.com/manga/index.php?id=423&page=20#
Kakashi had 1/2 of his chakra remaining after his clone got killed.
I would assume if you undid the technique yourself, you would get the chakra back.

If you want to make a clone with less than 50% chakra, just make an elemental clone like what Kayenta has stated earlier.

 For a moment, let's say this is possible, there's no advantage in doing so. Doujutsus that can see chakra flow can distinguish the difference if the chakra is not evenly distributed. Unless your opponent is considerably weaker than you, it should not take long for an opponent to defeat it imo.

Actually, with that example you used, Kakashi used a lightning shadow clone. So I guess that would mean that chakra is divided evenly regardless. Unless he had already used chakra and that plus the chakra used by the clone resulted in him having about half left.

Also, It's important to note that Pain was unable to tell it was a clone even though he has rinnegan until it shocked the robopath.
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Mei

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Re: Kage Bunshin
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 03:19:10 PM »



Actually, with that example you used, Kakashi used a lightning shadow clone. So I guess that would mean that chakra is divided evenly regardless. Unless he had already used chakra and that plus the chakra used by the clone resulted in him having about half left.

Also, It's important to note that Pain was unable to tell it was a clone even though he has rinnegan until it shocked the robopath.

I meant elemental clones such as this: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Clone_Technique
I know, elements can be mixed with the Kage Bushin.
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