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Amend (in any shape or form) the biju rules

15 (45.5%)

Abolish the biju rules entirely

3 (9.1%)

Abolish the biju system altogether, removing official biju from roleplay

15 (45.5%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Voting closed: September 23, 2015, 04:03:09 PM

[UettoSenju]

Just to put this out there but if the beast are only OOC tools how do they fit  into rp?

You are telling me I can't hunt them IC yet someone is rping IC as having one? That makes no sense.

It's like saying Konoha and Kiri goes to war. Well during this war I trap one of their host and knock him out. Then am I not able to extract his beast?

That is the same concept of IC hunt is it not? If they are IC by any means then yes I can hunt them down IC. If not that just breaks the whole point of being IC. And sense there would be no rules on it I could pretty much do it however I liked, correct? No IC rules = I can do what I want with them IC.

So for you voting to just make OOC rules remember that.  If they can only be gained through OOC they have no place IC and should be voided from "Official" rp.

They should be nothing more than an OOC bragging right.

[Deathstroke]

My understanding was that the challenge system would be OOC only but you could always do an actual rp and find them. Like now if someone has a bijuu and wants to do an OOC match as the preference but you find them and kill them in a normal rp the beast would be released and you could capture it, right? So that would not change but the whole wait in line for a assured fight thing would be only OOC.

[Eric]

I vote to abolish the whole thing, rules and biju both.

There is, from my perspective, simply no "fair" way to do things. If the rules are merely amended, someone is going to be upset one way or another by the changes; hosts from loss of freedom or challengers out of loss of a chance at the beast. Having the cake and eating it too has proven impossible regarding biju, because many challengers will simply choose the most difficult route possible (for one reason or another) rather than be flexible with the challenger.

If there are no rules on the system at all, and only IC rules supreme, then I don't expect to see a change of hands very often for some of the tailed beasts. I imagine village fights may once again become an inevitable way to get some of the tailed beasts exposed into a fight. I wonder if any Zenakus or Bocchieres will re-emerge prominently in such an environment.

The rules are only as enforcable as its enforcement. I have seen very few if any instances where the community punished one of its members for breaking any of the biju rules without a fuss akin to a disorderly trial. Excuses, exceptions, loophole seeking defiance and SL ways (as Uetto, Kayenta, and Warren have more than convinced me is a major problem in the implementation of any rules at this point) make enforcement difficult, inconsistent in quality, and a matter of "good guy" and "bad guy".

To put it bluntly, I don't think a "free RP" realm can handle any set of biju rules because the only rule of law universal to people here seems to be, "You go after my idea of fun and it's on, so back off". From a hindsight view, many jinchurikii worked fine under the rules, only some had issues with compliance for various reasons ranging from "I don't want to work with this challenger", "your interpretation is wrong", to "RL comes first", to "That doesn't make RP sense" to whatever under the sun. I don't think I saw blatantly, "I don't wanna fight for it" at any point, but I could be wrong, someone might could have been that bold.

I doubt my mind is going to be changed; it has been long overdue that this system be ended. Even if the tailed beasts as a whole are voided and other RP issues crop up, at least there is no need for a universal concept of "fairness" in every decision and a miniature war everytime the word biju comes up in a topic. Literally it would come down to, "Did you follow that group's RP standards?" "Did they at least give you an idea of what their standards were?" and "Just walk away and don't RP with each other".


P.S

Kayenta, not seeing the poll results until after the vote had closed was intentional, but once steam starts to slow on the thread (maybe after a week or two) or if enough people want it as such, that can be changed to show after voting instead of show after poll is expired.

[Kage]

If I've read every reply correctly, then here's the current true vote turn-out.

Amend - 8
Abolish - 1
Void - 2

We have nine votes unaccounted for, which will be voided if the individuals do not post their vote and give an opinion as to why they cast that vote. This is to avoid any stuffing of the poll boxes.

[Dart Terumī]

We have nine votes unaccounted for, which will be voided if the individuals do not post their vote and give an opinion as to why they cast that vote. This is to avoid any stuffing of the poll boxes.

Why would they be voided just because they don't want to post an opinion? Their vote counts too. No one has to post their reasoning. The only reason why some have is to sway the swing voters one way or another or another. To simply discard their vote because they didn't post a reason is asinine.

[Hitler-Chan]

We have nine votes unaccounted for, which will be voided if the individuals do not post their vote and give an opinion as to why they cast that vote. This is to avoid any stuffing of the poll boxes.

Why would they be voided just because they don't want to post an opinion? Their vote counts too. No one has to post their reasoning. The only reason why some have is to sway the swing voters one way or another or another. To simply discard their vote because they didn't post a reason is asinine.

More and more I find myself agreeing with this guy. Something is terribly wrong...

[Kage]

It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.

[Deathstroke]

Yeah Eric did mention in his first post that you'd have to post an explanation to have your vote count.

[Uchiha Madara]

Amend them.

[Dart Terumī]

It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.

Looks like I need to go to the federal government and demand that all voters must explain their choice when they vote at next year's election then. <.<;

You do realize how silly it absolutely is to just cast aside someone's vote simply because they don't "explain" their choice.

Not to mention, this poll was Eric's creation. You don't have jurisdiction to dictate whose vote counts and whose doesn't. Until Eric amends his post to force the voters to post their explanation, this entire debate is null and void.

Yeah Eric did mention in his first post that you'd have to post an explanation to have your vote count.

No, he doesn't state that all nor is it implied. He simply asked for any further discussion to remain on the topic and not get derailed into a differing topic entirely.

[Deathstroke]

My mistake, it is in the title of the poll not his post. "plz comment as well as a safeguard against multi-account voting."

[Dart Terumī]

My mistake, it is in the title of the poll not his post. "plz comment as well as a safeguard against multi-account voting."

Eric would never type like that when he is being official. That was only added recently then. The poll has been tampered.

[UettoSenju]

You guys do relies three months from now we will have the same conversation again right? The biju simply don't work because of the fact everyone is so power hungry at this site they would rather be unfair then play nice.

And if you say that's a lie then your just in denile.

When faced with the freedom to be nasty or rude or crude about a subject human nature will be. We are selfish beings by nature.

People will break what ever laws you make because your laws don't mean shit. Literally they mean nothing... No one is gonna be punished for breaking or lope holing your rules.

So what do you do? Make more rules that mean nothing and void those who want follow? So in the end only a small, very small, portion of SL follows your rules and you aren't rping with anyone else?

In time these rules will split SL and when they do it may very well destroy this site. I mean all official rp rules made at this forum.

You are saying 9 votes is enough to speak for all the people at SL? That's selfish in itself. You all think you are above the other cause you post at this forum? News flash no where in the SL rules does it say you have to have a forum account to rp.

Your rules are bs and your vote is bs. I'm blunt because its true even if you want face it.

I'd think the elder gathered here would understand that. We have seen this happen before. We are going down the path that leads to SLS all over again. A path that splits the people of this site.

Official rp is ruining SL and you're all just so blinded by your egos to be the best at SL and the rule makers you can't see it.

Am I preaching on deaf ears? Probably so. But I love this site and I want just sit back and be quiet to not hurt your feelings.

SL rp use to consist of pming someone and admin if the wanted to rp something, any plot you could think of. One plot didn't need to follow the next. You could have never had a beast before but have it for that night to rp a hunt and the next day be without it again. In the free realm of rp it was people didn't need to be greedy or power hungry cause you could be whatever you wanted.

Why do we keep pushing a system that is failing time and time again? Instead of just going back to a system that was flawless? People had fun, real fun. People got along better, if you didn't get along with someone you never had to rp with them at all. The site was more active, when was the last time you seen a truly large amount of people logged in?

And you could argue well SL will never see numbers like that again Naruto rp is fading. That may be true I want say it isn't. But I also see new player join this site regularly but the majority aren't staying.

[UettoSenju]

What happens when you wake up one day and the only people left at SL are the hand full that follow "the official system" because it ran everyone else off like it has been doing for so long. Then that hand full can't even get along enough to rp without voiding everything they do?

[Kage]

It's to prevent voter fraud. I could easily rack up the votes for amending the rules by 10 or 20 if I wanted to, if we're making all votes anonymous. Even with the spam-prevention that the forum has, it's very easily do-able if someone feels strongly about their choice and is willing to put enough time into it.

Looks like I need to go to the federal government and demand that all voters must explain their choice when they vote at next year's election then. <.<;

You do realize how silly it absolutely is to just cast aside someone's vote simply because they don't "explain" their choice.

Not to mention, this poll was Eric's creation. You don't have jurisdiction to dictate whose vote counts and whose doesn't. Until Eric amends his post to force the voters to post their explanation, this entire debate is null and void.

Well the federal government does try to make sure that voter fraud doesn't happen. Some states, including my own, instill voter ID laws to prevent such. Some people may complain about it, but if they truly feel strong about being able to vote, then it shouldn't be a problem to register for their ID. I got mine, and I haven't even used it at all. It's literally been collecting dust in my room.

A few votes can tip the balance one way or another. But Eric did say this in the opening post.

I ask that this topic be kept focused on the poll and its logical discussion for as long as possible.
Though discouraged for difficulty of verification and tracking, if you are making a vote for someone who does not wish to make a forum account or does not have one, please state that clearly and in some bold way (larger font, colors, etc. no more than two please) as those will have to be added to the totals at the end of the poll.

That's why I was counting the votes in replies to this thread as well. As far as I could tell, no proxy-votes have been voiced in any replies so far.

What happens when you wake up one day and the only people left at SL are the hand full that follow "the official system" because it ran everyone else off like it has been doing for so long. Then that hand full can't even get along enough to rp without voiding everything they do?

I don't really push the official system as much as I did before. It's not really "official" either. But it's more like a structural system that a group of RPers have made over the years, which gives a history behind it, and is attractive to some. If people want to do what they want, then they can. If they want to say they're the Hokage, then that's fine. They may be alienating themselves from everyone else, which is fine and is their own decision. They can even RP with people in our group. Though that doesn't mean that the groupies are actually going to see them as Hokage. Instead, their characters might laugh it off, since they know that Kite is the current Hokage.

I now-in-days, choose to try and reach out to others and teach them how our group thing works. Maybe if we did more of that and less judging, the community would flourish a bit more. But communication is a two-way street, and some people would rather stay in their own personal bubbles and live out their power fantasies, being unwilling to learn or talk about things. Slightly unhealthy for the mind, but that's fine too.