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Author Topic: Understanding Mujin Meisai  (Read 3284 times)

Mei

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Understanding Mujin Meisai
« on: September 22, 2015, 12:29:16 AM »

Mujin Meisai
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dustless_Bewildering_Cover

So the jutsu hides your appearance and your chakra signature.
I was wondering, can doujutsu (w/ ability to see chakra) still see the person who's using this jutsu?

I found this definition of 'chakra signature'. "Chakra signature is the unique aspect of a person's chakra. Every single person's chakra is different, and so sensory shinobi use this chakra signature to determine the identities of a shinobi. In addition, shinobi from certain clans will also have chakra signatures similar to one another, as such, Tobirama was able to identify Karin as an Uzumaki based on her chakra signature."   http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_chakra_signature

Random thought: Apparently the Byakugan can see a person's 'chakra signature'. http://mangayou.com/mangafox/naruto/reader?page=562

Anyways...based on this definition, I would think the doujutsu would be able to see the person still, because of its ability to see chakra. After all, this jutsu is formed through the use of chakra.
I don't think that hiding one's chakra signature is the equivalent of 'hiding' your body's chakra flow (chakra circulatory system). And Sharingan was able to see through a similar jutsu (Meisaigakure no Jutsu).

So I want to hear what other people think about this.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 12:43:52 AM »

It says they're invisible and have no detectable chakra.

But if you can't detect their chakra then can you also not see it with dojutsu hax?

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Becquerel

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 12:48:18 AM »

Well, it didn't completely hid the person's appearance.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/524/16
He still left behind footprints in the sand. And unfortunately, because we never saw him encountering someone with an eye dojutsu we can only assume. Honestly, I'd say that it'd be invisible to the sharingan and byakugan (which kind of sees through walls and can see chakra). I'm sure there'd be other ways to detect him though if sand would work and the jutsu only bends light. Like a thick smokescreen, difference in temperature (exhaling in a cold room), or spray of ink.
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Mei

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 01:02:59 AM »

It says they're invisible and have no detectable chakra.

But if you can't detect their chakra then can you also not see it with dojutsu hax?

When 'no chakra', I thought it was meant that he was hiding his chakra signature so that sensory ninjas cannot detect him. >.>
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525

Well, it didn't completely hid the person's appearance.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/524/16
He still left behind footprints in the sand. And unfortunately, because we never saw him encountering someone with an eye dojutsu we can only assume. Honestly, I'd say that it'd be invisible to the sharingan and byakugan (which kind of sees through walls and can see chakra). I'm sure there'd be other ways to detect him though if sand would work and the jutsu only bends light. Like a thick smokescreen, difference in temperature (exhaling in a cold room), or spray of ink.

Yeah, I figured a smokescreen would work.
---

But then if he has 'no chakra', can one perform jutsus out of this technique?
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Rusaku

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 01:06:25 AM »

It says they're invisible and have no detectable chakra.

But if you can't detect their chakra then can you also not see it with dojutsu hax?

When 'no chakra', I thought it was meant that he was hiding his chakra signature so that sensory ninjas cannot detect him. >.>
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525

Well, it didn't completely hid the person's appearance.
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/524/16
He still left behind footprints in the sand. And unfortunately, because we never saw him encountering someone with an eye dojutsu we can only assume. Honestly, I'd say that it'd be invisible to the sharingan and byakugan (which kind of sees through walls and can see chakra). I'm sure there'd be other ways to detect him though if sand would work and the jutsu only bends light. Like a thick smokescreen, difference in temperature (exhaling in a cold room), or spray of ink.

Yeah, I figured a smokescreen would work.
---

But then if he has 'no chakra', can one perform jutsus out of this technique?

There are plenty of ways to see it without doujutsu, or even with it if you are smart enough, though I like the idea of it actually being a decent counter to how OP Sharingan is now. Please, make it so Doujutsu can't see it. Watch all the Sharingan abusers cry.
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Mei

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 01:34:18 AM »

To  'reinforce' my previous post

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525/5
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525/6
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sensing_Water_Sphere


There are plenty of ways to see it without doujutsu, or even with it if you are smart enough, though I like the idea of it actually being a decent counter to how OP Sharingan is now. Please, make it so Doujutsu can't see it. Watch all the Sharingan abusers cry.

I just want to know what is the general consensus about this jutsu, I don't care about the 'Sharingan abusers'. >.>
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Eric

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 01:53:02 AM »

Mujin Meisai
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dustless_Bewildering_Cover

So the jutsu hides your appearance and your chakra signature.
I was wondering, can doujutsu (w/ ability to see chakra) still see the person who's using this jutsu?

I found this definition of 'chakra signature'. "Chakra signature is the unique aspect of a person's chakra. Every single person's chakra is different, and so sensory shinobi use this chakra signature to determine the identities of a shinobi. In addition, shinobi from certain clans will also have chakra signatures similar to one another, as such, Tobirama was able to identify Karin as an Uzumaki based on her chakra signature."   http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_chakra_signature

Random thought: Apparently the Byakugan can see a person's 'chakra signature'. http://mangayou.com/mangafox/naruto/reader?page=562

Anyways...based on this definition, I would think the doujutsu would be able to see the person still, because of its ability to see chakra. After all, this jutsu is formed through the use of chakra.
I don't think that hiding one's chakra signature is the equivalent of 'hiding' your body's chakra flow (chakra circulatory system). And Sharingan was able to see through a similar jutsu (Meisaigakure no Jutsu).

So I want to hear what other people think about this.

It's basically the Assassain Pro perk from Modern Warfare 3 combined with the invisibility hack (minus the intangibility aspect).

The environment can give the target away, and touch-based sensory is still able to detect it.

As for the sharingan, byakugan, and even Rinnegan, they can be used to detect the lesser version (hiding with camo) fairly easily. However, when the chakra is not "detectable" I presume that this is a form of chakra suppression, and when used at the highest level, the user should not be able to perform other high level techniques while using it (akin to Mu needing to unveil in order to use Dust release if I recall correctly), although SL users have been noted to do so anyways. The sharingan should be able to take notice of the surrounding changes (and, you know, the chakra, as dojutsu is not considered a traditional means of evasion) along with the byakugan (especially so since it has different forms of vision available to it), though I am not as sure about the Rinnegan.
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Mei

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Re: Understanding Mujin Meisai
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 08:16:37 AM »


It's basically the Assassain Pro perk from Modern Warfare 3 combined with the invisibility hack (minus the intangibility aspect).

The environment can give the target away, and touch-based sensory is still able to detect it.

As for the sharingan, byakugan, and even Rinnegan, they can be used to detect the lesser version (hiding with camo) fairly easily. However, when the chakra is not "detectable" I presume that this is a form of chakra suppression, and when used at the highest level, the user should not be able to perform other high level techniques while using it (akin to Mu needing to unveil in order to use Dust release if I recall correctly), although SL users have been noted to do so anyways. The sharingan should be able to take notice of the surrounding changes (and, you know, the chakra, as dojutsu is not considered a traditional means of evasion) along with the byakugan (especially so since it has different forms of vision available to it), though I am not as sure about the Rinnegan.

Yeah that's the keywords right there. 'Traditional means of evasion'. Not everyone has a doujutsu. >.>
And another point you made is the chakra. Even if the user is suppressing their own chakra, there's still chakra radiating off the jutsu itself.
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