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[Warren]

Point wasn't to say compromises can't happen, but rather that there's basically nothing stopping the challenger from just making up reasons after another to disagree with the preferences, until all of em are gone. If said challenger also happens to be more popular among forum goers than the defender, then bringing it here doesn't help either, the defender will just get shouted down by many instead of one, and be forced to accept whatever the challenger wants or get stripped.

[Rusaku]

Point wasn't to say compromises can't happen, but rather that there's basically nothing stopping the challenger from just making up reasons after another to disagree with the preferences, until all of em are gone. If said challenger also happens to be more popular among forum goers than the defender, then bringing it here doesn't help either, the defender will just get shouted down by many instead of one, and be forced to accept whatever the challenger wants or get stripped.

Are any of us truly popular on here? Because it seems we all get equally shit on when it's our turn for the limelight.

Alas that is a conversation for later I guess.

Honestly, you could come at me for days with every single scenario in the book, but at the end of the day if the world is actively fighting against you in a situation, then I guess you are shit out of luck. The forum is supposed to be our medium for gathering a gauge on a communities feel for a situation, and if what you are asking is so far fetched that no compromise will work AND the community is against you, then perhaps you are the problem here, not the challenger.

[Bocchiere]

The preferences are there to be just that. Your preferences. So a challenger knows what you'd like to do before challenging you and what they are getting themselves into. If I saw a host who had a million rules all set out for how they were going to insist the whole fight was actually going to be a game of Texas Hold Em I would probably save them for later and challenge someone who I find more agreeable first. They aren't rules you can set.

The Taijutsu Battle for instance I would have no problem with, personally. All the same I don't think that should be something that you can force. What if someone makes a character that is the opposite of Rock Lee? Someone who sucks at Taijutsu but is really good at Nin/Genjutsu? Sucks to be them? What if it was someone that caused trouble like Masane could everyone insist on a Taijutsu battle just to stick it to her?

This is Shinobi Legends, not Boxer Legends, not MMA Legends. I would say you should ALWAYS be allowed (in challenge type scenarios anyway) to fight with at least basic Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, Genjutsu, and ninja tools and abilities. To strip away all of the shinobi aspects of shinobi legends is silly, to say the least, and making that a requirement is rubbish.

What Eiko, for instance, should be saying is that she would like to do a Taijutsu battle for various reasons. She can explain why she wants to do that to her challenger and ask them to agree to it. They can then agree or disagree and explain why.

It should not be, "You have to fist fight me or you do not get to fight me. Period."

I am not saying she does that I am just using her condition as an example.

Warren, you say why bother with the preferences if a challenger can throw them all out. I say to you why bother having bijuu rules if the hosts all get to make their own rules? When I made the post on the forum challenging you someone messaged me on SL and said he understood my feelings as he had also once challenged you and, in his words was, "politely told to eff off." I saw another topic on the forum about the same thing as well. Yet the bijuu rules state, "BOTH decide if the match will be an IC Challenge or an OOC Challenge."

What should happen instead of no one ever getting to fight you is that a impartial party should literally flip a coin on it. There's no way to have a discussion topic about whether a fight should be OOC or IC so if something like that cannot be decided it should be decided by simple random chance.

Neither the challenger nor the host are the dominant party in this situation. Both are supposed to reach some kind of consensus. Refusal to do so, from either party, is what has been causing our recent problems.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

I felt it was relevant to point out the autohit with Kirk and Kite, the character control with Shima. Failure to adhere to basic RP rules is what I was discussing. And that is relevant. Not because of the outcome of that RP, but because people see how an RP is run and then decide well that is not something I want to put myself through. An obvious autohit and the author doesn't have to fix it? He is successful and the character dies? Uhm....yeah...I am so gonna rush to go out and RP a bijuu death match with someone like that.

I said that maybe being OP is not the problem, but basic RP tactics are.

I used Yujo as an example because you mentioned him as having a firm grasp upon what a ninja should be. I have my doubts about his ability to then take that image of what a ninja should be and not auto hit or character control during his RP. Do I think he tries to CC and Auto hit on purpose? No. But it is an easy mistake to make. Once it is pointed out, however...then he should correct it. Not insist it is fine as is. Because it is not fine to break the basic Rules of RP.

And I believe you said that yourself in your post:
-->"Of course with these amazing advancements, the people who play SL will be quick to use all of the new material to the best of their creative ability, and we cannot fault them for that. At the same time, we cannot go about placing limits on what they can create unless they obviously break rules or regulations in doing it. "

Now...are we done saying this person is great and that person is not? May we now just speak about the issue without making it about specific people either to praise or to complain? For any one person that is held up as a paragon of virtue I can site a case when they are most definitely not. And for each time we can point to someone and say how horrible they acted in this situation I can also say how wonderful and perfectly dead on they were in another. It serves no purpose to do either.

I don't need to know how Warren did this or Eiko did that any more than you need to know how Yujo did this or that either.

What then should the responsibilities of a challenger be?

[Bocchiere]

Well the short version of what I was getting at using specific examples is that the challenger needs to be willing to compromise, just as the host does.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

I agree. Compromise is what is lacking.

Compromise though is not one sided. If I say...I will not use suiton, then you have to give up something to me too. Cause I know water terrifies you. But I would sacrifice those jutsu to appease your fears and make you feel better. But it is going to cost you. Tit for tat. Compromise.

[Mei]

His failure to post in the zones with Kite and Kirk that the ice crystals were polluted with his chakra, considering that Kite had his byakugan active, was a HUGE oversight. When it was pointed out, he apparently refused to give on the point because...guess what? Kirk is dead now and Kite injured from being what is an auto-hit due to the failure to provide that crucial information. This was NOT a situation where he was employing a ruse. This was a lack of detail that Kite would have detected given his currently activated powers in the zone. And then just like magic bunshin, the ice crystals in the air are a deadly attack that slays Kirk. DO I believe that Yujo made it up that his ice crystals were going to be an attack? No, I believe he legitimately was setting it up that way in order to get the upper hand. And that is a wonderful ninja thing to do. However, it was not good RP because it denied the active power of the Hokage to perceive the threat until it was too late to react in a manner he would have done, had he known of the threat. And rather than cause a fuss with Yujo to the point of their being bad blood? Kirk takes the death in the end after some vacillation. Totally his choice.

I forgot to reply to that the first time you mentioned this....

So I am very confused on why you argue that Yujo should have mentioned the ice crystals were polluted with his chakra. It was stated that he was the cause of them. And re-reading the RP, I feel even if he included that little detail, it would not have changed the outcome because I heard that Kite and Kirk thought the whole thing was of a 'natural disaster' that was caused from the bijuu chakra (correct me if I'm wrong). They did not even mention the chakra aura that they were in, which expanded 30 meters from Yujo.

In regards to OP characters, I am fine with limitations but Rusaku has a point. Naruto is about ninjas and restrict them to only taijutus seems unjust. But even using Lee as a example, at least he has Gates. I'm assuming that Gates is not even allowed in this 'Taijutsu' fight (although that would be unfair if only one side has Gates). However, what I have seen with people with so much abilities is a lot of 'power throwing'. Basically, using a variety of different abilities and using some, if not all, of them wrongly. I have seen it in people you would not expect but it's true. So I approve of OP limitations so people can use their brains more than their brawn. However making a bijuu match Taijutsu only is unfair imo. We're shinobis, why can't we fight like one?

[UettoSenju]

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

[Bocchiere]

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

So if I rp as kurenai and the host is might guy then a tai jutsu only battle is a fair and even contest?

[UettoSenju]

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

So if I rp as kurenai and the host is might guy then a tai jutsu only battle is a fair and even contest?

Those people aren't op if we refer to part one. I was referring to SL opness. Where we have mastered everything under the sun.

[Camel]

Hosts are generally given leeway and their preferences is something that is sometimes questionable. (Which is certainly interesting looking at Eiko and Gitsune's case)
The loop-hole with going by that host's preferences is that usually is it assumed that that host will used their beast to their full extent; meaning they are allowed to use tails. Taijustu only matches is generally a topic of Seven Mist Swordsman application and tests, now can this be applied to a sanctioned tailed beast match? Yes and no. If I am only allowed to use Taijustu and swords, then it can be assumed that I will use chakra to enhance these qualities; I will employ the usage of the Eight Gates. Same can be assume for those who will put their tailed beast on the line and are generally allowed to use tails.

[Rusaku]

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

You're missing the point. Obviously.

As even bocc said, if their character is the complete opposite of how Lee worked (Fantastic Nin/Gen, horrible Taijutsu) then it would make no sense for them to walk into a zone for an all taijutsu battle. People can be phenomenal in the zones without taijutsu all together, and perhaps that is how they work best. but for a host to go on and try and limit the characters as a whole to the only thing they are good at is retarded.

@Kay
I absolutely adore how you say you want to cut back on the insults so we can work on a solution, yet you openly dedicated an entire post to bashing Yujo. But wait, you tried to save yourself by saying that's not what you were trying to do despite everything you just said. Then proceeded to add nothing to the conversation in the slightest. That's literally paramount to me saying that I'm not racist, but (Insert incredibly racist statement.)

I called the jinks the cream of the crop to be purposefully disingenuous, because truth be told most of you are hot garbage. Not just jinks, but like everyone save for perhaps 3 people, maybe 4.

Hot. Garbage.

I was just trying to move the topic along, but it seems no one else really gives a shit about actually making any progress save for talking in circles with one another about how much this or that person irks you in some way.

Responsibility for being a challenger? Stop being a shithead.

Responsibility for being a host? Stop being a shithead.

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

So if I rp as kurenai and the host is might guy then a tai jutsu only battle is a fair and even contest?

Those people aren't op if we refer to part one. I was referring to SL opness. Where we have mastered everything under the sun.

Uhh, no. You can't throw a blanket "Everyone is a god" excuse onto the situation and expect that to fly, because I know for a fact people are out there who RP being absolute shit in Taijutsu. What are they barred from fighting then? Because they sure as shit would lose that fight if they stayed in character. That is essentially forcing them to break character in order to even have a sliver of a chance.

[UettoSenju]

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

You're missing the point. Obviously.

As even bocc said, if their character is the complete opposite of how Lee worked (Fantastic Nin/Gen, horrible Taijutsu) then it would make no sense for them to walk into a zone for an all taijutsu battle. People can be phenomenal in the zones without taijutsu all together, and perhaps that is how they work best. but for a host to go on and try and limit the characters as a whole to the only thing they are good at is retarded.

@Kay
I absolutely adore how you say you want to cut back on the insults so we can work on a solution, yet you openly dedicated an entire post to bashing Yujo. But wait, you tried to save yourself by saying that's not what you were trying to do despite everything you just said. Then proceeded to add nothing to the conversation in the slightest. That's literally paramount to me saying that I'm not racist, but (Insert incredibly racist statement.)

I called the jinks the cream of the crop to be purposefully disingenuous, because truth be told most of you are hot garbage. Not just jinks, but like everyone save for perhaps 3 people, maybe 4.

Hot. Garbage.

I was just trying to move the topic along, but it seems no one else really gives a shit about actually making any progress save for talking in circles with one another about how much this or that person irks you in some way.

Responsibility for being a challenger? Stop being a shithead.

Responsibility for being a host? Stop being a shithead.

Thing is though, and I'm not trying to be an ass here, by your logic even your voids don't matter, if a challenger said no I don't agree to that then you as the defender would have to oblige and accept they can use those things.

And that's when you discuss things with them, and if that does not work you can take it to the forum. Sometimes discussing things with people can actually work I have seen it happen, however rare it may be.

Though there is a significant distinction between voiding a select few god mod techniques, and wanting to nerf someones entire character down to a shell of it's former self.

So long as both parties take the nerf what is the issue? If both will only be using taijutsu (as stated here) than no one has the advantage of the nerf.

It boils down to rp skill as it should.

The thing about opness is this: it starts to bleed into a lack of rp skill. The mind set forms that my character is so strong I don't need to give details. I suspect that may be what Kay was hinting at.

An equal nerf like that should be fine.

So if I rp as kurenai and the host is might guy then a tai jutsu only battle is a fair and even contest?

Those people aren't op if we refer to part one. I was referring to SL opness. Where we have mastered everything under the sun.

Uhh, no. You can't throw a blanket "Everyone is a god" excuse onto the situation and expect that to fly, because I know for a fact people are out there who RP being absolute shit in Taijutsu. What are they barred from fighting then? Because they sure as shit would lose that fight if they stayed in character. That is essentially forcing them to break character in order to even have a sliver of a chance.

I can do whatever I want sense I am hot garbage. Whatever that is....

And it is my opinion is all. Clearly I figure a taijutsu match would mean no chakra allowed which is cool in my thoughts.

[Mei]

Hosts are generally given leeway and their preferences is something that is sometimes questionable. (Which is certainly interesting looking at Eiko and Gitsune's case)
The loop-hole with going by that host's preferences is that usually is it assumed that that host will used their beast to their full extent; meaning they are allowed to use tails. Taijustu only matches is generally a topic of Seven Mist Swordsman application and tests, now can this be applied to a sanctioned tailed beast match? Yes and no. If I am only allowed to use Taijustu and swords, then it can be assumed that I will use chakra to enhance these qualities; I will employ the usage of the Eight Gates. Same can be assume for those who will put their tailed beast on the line and are generally allowed to use tails.

I did not know that. Interesting.

Back to the 'Challenger responsibilities', I'm very confused on what is there to talk about in this section. This was not mention in any guidelines or the list that was previously mentioned. I mean, seriously what is the responsibilities of a challenger that is not previously mentioned any other section?

There's the 'Challenging a Host' section and perhaps a sub-section of that is about the IC hunts.

Kay, what did you have in mind when you brought up 'Responsibilities of a Challenger'?

[Camel]

I did not know that. Interesting

Allow me to clarify myself on this subject. Seven Mist Swordsman tests generally employ the usage of Taijutsu, Kenjutsu and Water Release techniques only. I don't want any confusion between us but remarkably the preferences by the accused are nearly identical; with the exception that chakra-based techniques cannot be used. I'm certain a proverbial line was crossed at some point but until these proposed rules are generally accepted by a majority of the community, we won't see any change anytime soon. We have ourselves to blame for not generally getting along with each other and compromising on a single subject.

Edit: I fixed an error in my post.