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[UettoSenju]

The whole Juubi thing would lead to a lot of arguments I think.

The true reason I would say no more than 1, yes 1, beast per host is the fact of stripping. Let us say a host owns 3 beast and they break a rule that calls for strip. Should they be stripped for just that beast or all their beast? Arguments will arise about issues like that.

The more stuff we allow the more in depth rules will have to be made. I see it at keeping one beast per host to be the best route to go when it comes to making, following, and passing judgment on these rules we are trying to form. 

[Camel]

The idea of the Juubi being introduced into role play actually intrigues me, it was actually *my* end goal until my character died and I passed that goal onto the next villain. I don't see why the idea of it is getting voided in general. I see players that claim Truth Seeking Balls and Tenseigan but that concept has been generally accepted. I feel that actual portrayal of the Juubi itself should be done by a gamemaster, I feel the same way when it comes to the Gedo Mazo being used in role play. Since of course, it is a very powerful summon that is on par with a tailed beast itself.
Not many techniques are able to fight on par with a Tailed Beasts but the husk of the Juubi is in its own class; you can actually use it to prolong your life far beyond its natural lifespan.
It would be far better to actually collaborate with nine other players and have them use it as a summon, then when the end goal is near--you have all nine characters summon their respective beast--seal it then resurrect the Ten Tails after it assimilates each beast in a correct order. However if this actually comes into play, what would become of the end villain of the entire Naruto series: Kaguya? *She* played a major role in the entire series, if the Ten Tails gets incorporated then some Kaguya-esque *will* make an appearance and from reading the series...the host of the Ten Tails is sacrificed to bring about the villain to end all villains.

If you make the Juubi you get to do your world take over attempt and then win or lose everything goes back to normal. Who is that hurting?

Let's weigh the options here. If *you* win then you get to do as you please and have the option of separating the Ten Tails into Nine separate entities. Lose. Well we'll get to see some *other* villain take that Ten Tails host place and basically be the harbinger of the apocalypse.
In the end *evil* never wins according to shonen logic, it is however interesting to see that evil character progress up to the point until that mysterious and heroic character steps in and wins it with one punch. (OPM reference)

=========

Sure, I have nor problem with two tailed beasts per character, but taking on all nine in five separate characters is spreading yourself *waaaay* too thin and it will be a minor setback should you *lose* any of those challenges.  It should strictly be one per main character and one for your alternate, if that player has any alternate characters. Juubi was a great idea back then but now...the subject brings up more problems then solutions. It's almost considered *taboo* to even try to make it your end goal as it seems.

[Bocchiere]

The whole Juubi thing would lead to a lot of arguments I think.

The true reason I would say no more than 1, yes 1, beast per host is the fact of stripping. Let us say a host owns 3 beast and they break a rule that calls for strip. Should they be stripped for just that beast or all their beast? Arguments will arise about issues like that.

The more stuff we allow the more in depth rules will have to be made. I see it at keeping one beast per host to be the best route to go when it comes to making, following, and passing judgment on these rules we are trying to form.

Then we should burn this board to the ground and all go back to voiding the bijuu like that vote said we were supposed to.

There's never been an official rule controlling how many bijuu you can have, I followed 2 per person because I was willing to try it with Akatsuki. It isn't reasonable to force people to do that though. It could take literal years and all be undone by things completely outside your control.

If the consensus is we want to character control anyone who wants to try and be a major villain you can remove me from this group and the dwelling.

[UettoSenju]

The whole Juubi thing would lead to a lot of arguments I think.

The true reason I would say no more than 1, yes 1, beast per host is the fact of stripping. Let us say a host owns 3 beast and they break a rule that calls for strip. Should they be stripped for just that beast or all their beast? Arguments will arise about issues like that.

The more stuff we allow the more in depth rules will have to be made. I see it at keeping one beast per host to be the best route to go when it comes to making, following, and passing judgment on these rules we are trying to form.

Then we should burn this board to the ground and all go back to voiding the bijuu like that vote said we were supposed to.

There's never been an official rule controlling how many bijuu you can have, I followed 2 per person because I was willing to try it with Akatsuki. It isn't reasonable to force people to do that though. It could take literal years and all be undone by things completely outside your control.

If the consensus is we want to character control anyone who wants to try and be a major villain you can remove me from this group and the dwelling.

It was my understanding that we gathered here to form a system that would be easier to maintain and actually be able to move forward into being made.

I am sorry if my opinion does not match yours but we are allowed to have separate ones. I feel that would be best for the system to function at its best. I feel the system functioning should be the top gimmick in all of this.

Surely you must have came here with an open mind that there would be things done you fully support and those that you do not. That being said if this was to pass. It is a give and take process. That is merely my thought. So don't be so rash as to lash out.

I would easily compromise as to making it a 2-3 beast limit. However anymore than that would get a no vote. 

[Ace]

Opinions will differ.
I don't here people bitching when they get their way, of course, why would I?

Majority will rule.
Make your case though!

Thus far, we are having good discussions. Let's continue.
If you decide to not want to participate, let me know asap because I have a wait-list of people wanting to join.

Trust me when I say, this will move on with or without any one of us. That includes myself, fyi.
This is larger than the individual. My advice, get on board and compromise.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

My point is more aligned with Kirk on this one in that...

"I am sorry if my opinion does not match yours but we are allowed to have separate ones. I feel that would be best for the system to function at its best. I feel the system functioning should be the top gimmick in all of this.

Surely you must have came here with an open mind that there would be things done you fully support and those that you do not. That being said if this was to pass. It is a give and take process. That is merely my thought. So don't be so rash as to lash out. "

I know that people disagree with the way I see things. And I am more than willing to compromise instead of just burning the house down.

I basically do not have a personal RP goal tied up to see the rules go one way or the other. Save this...

I would like people to get along and the bijuu to be used in RP, not split into factions, or voided.

I prefer not to RP an SL where any one person gains the power to destroy it all. however, I did request we not discuss the Gedo Mazo here but stick to creating rules and such. I feel that is a separate issue that only has a very minor player interest, while the bijuu in general are of interest to many people. There are 10 now. I thought it would be nice if there were 10 hosts to provide a broader base of players to enjoy this bijuu activity.

the opinion has stood since before we even knew about the Gedo Mazo and has not changed. So you can see it is not one I hold personally directed to ruin your individual RP, but rather to permit more hosts than just a handful or even one.

I think I have said all I can on the matter of multi-beasts. I am ready for a vote when everyone else is.

[Bocchiere]

You can have whatever opinion you want. If that opinion is that people should be character controlled to prevent hypothetical issues from maybe happening then I simply want nothing to do with it.

I'm not making anyone's rp impossible by saying, "Hey maybe the Bijuu sealed in people should always be able to be sensed to a degree to give hunters a shot." that isn't an unreasonable request.

This isn't the first thing here I haven't been in the majority on, not "getting my way" isn't the issue. Taking character controlling people to the extreme and making it a rule is the issue. 

I have no doubt this would continue just fine without me. Just as I know I would consider the whole thing a sham just as much as if you all agreed it should be a rule that people should just not be allowed to challenge for a bijuu if they have a character with an evil alignment. Which honestly you might as well just cut out the middle man and do at this rate.

Some rules make sense. Saying "Maybe you shouldn't be able to summon 10 Edo Tensei zombies and have them each make 100 clones to fight one person." Isn't stopping anyone from rping an Edo Tensei user. Saying that, "Maybe Hiraishin seals should be removable instead of eternal." isn't stopping anyone from using Hiraishin to its full effect. Those are all reasonable requests to make things fair. Giving anyone who wants to rp a Naruto villain and collect the bijuu a big middle finger because that might save us some hassle down the road is not reasonable, and I'm thoroughly disgusted with anyone who thinks it is. Call it whatever you will, but merely allowing a person to possibly collect the bijuu is not hurting anyone.

So yes, Ace, this is me telling you again, if the vote for this goes to the side of character controlling people for no reason then I want nothing further to do with this process. You don't even need to message me, just remove me from the boards and such and I'll know. If I notice it before you I'll pm you to remove me. Knowing the site would willingly kneecap the rp of anyone falling on the evil half of the alignment chart just as a precaution would be more than enough to convince me to just do my own thing and let the rest rot.

I hope you're all very proud, I've been on this site on and off since about 2006, just a little under a decade, and not till today have I believed that we are as bad as everyone says we are. Congratu-fucking-lations on that one.

[Eric]

Bocc makes a fair case in that his endgame goal is to create the 10-tails. Because of how OP the beast is it had been voided in the past.

But, then I read this right here:

...I see players that claim Truth Seeking Balls and Tenseigan but that concept has been generally accepted...

Like, seriously, when have those two been "generally accepted"? And if so, why is gathering all 9-tail beasts considered so terrible? It takes more actual RP effort than both of those and actually forces the beasts to be used what they were intended for, Roleplay. If IC hunts are a thing, then preachers, you gotta realize trying to hunt and take all 9 is kind of part of the reason they exist in RP.

In the series, and in SL, if they can be IC hunted then they should be able to be IC gathered all nine. Especially if stuff like Truth-Seeking Balls and Tensaigan of all things are totally accepted generally.

I'm with, "Let's spread the love", but at the same time, a massive RP opportunity to actually use the beasts IC (with IC hunts active mind you) is presented by Bocc's return and the initiation of tailed beast rules that will hopefuylly make things go smoothly. He gets 3 beasts, make him fight 3 challengers in a single match, coordinate all of their actions, all that jazz if need be, but at this point, I challenge anyone here to list 3 MAJOR RP uses for the tailed beast.

And I'm not talking jerking off over the toilet with it in mind, subduing it strictrly so you can use its power in a challenge. I'm talking actual RP involving the beasts. I believe that you will find it either revolves around hunting the beasts, having them as companions, or controlling/using their power as a weapon against a non-existent conventional military threat (cause no SL war i going to break out any time soon from what I know).

If there are not enough skilled RPers to keep him from having all 9 beasts (mind you, gangbang is an option) without outright banning it. Then that really says something. You want the biju to generate RP?

Encourage villains to actually try to catch 'em all. A start would be raising the proposed cap from 1 to at least 3.

[Ace]

Although I don't mind agreeing with a cap of two, as I previously stated...
Hell, I don't mind uncapping it all. =)

I do agree that if someone is good enough to get them all, more power to them.
At the same time, regulations to some extent are needed.

Anyways...
Upon your request if the vote does not go your way, I will remove you from the group.

[UettoSenju]

You can have whatever opinion you want. If that opinion is that people should be character controlled to prevent hypothetical issues from maybe happening then I simply want nothing to do with it.

I'm not making anyone's rp impossible by saying, "Hey maybe the Bijuu sealed in people should always be able to be sensed to a degree to give hunters a shot." that isn't an unreasonable request.

This isn't the first thing here I haven't been in the majority on, not "getting my way" isn't the issue. Taking character controlling people to the extreme and making it a rule is the issue. 

I have no doubt this would continue just fine without me. Just as I know I would consider the whole thing a sham just as much as if you all agreed it should be a rule that people should just not be allowed to challenge for a bijuu if they have a character with an evil alignment. Which honestly you might as well just cut out the middle man and do at this rate.

Some rules make sense. Saying "Maybe you shouldn't be able to summon 10 Edo Tensei zombies and have them each make 100 clones to fight one person." Isn't stopping anyone from rping an Edo Tensei user. Saying that, "Maybe Hiraishin seals should be removable instead of eternal." isn't stopping anyone from using Hiraishin to its full effect. Those are all reasonable requests to make things fair. Giving anyone who wants to rp a Naruto villain and collect the bijuu a big middle finger because that might save us some hassle down the road is not reasonable, and I'm thoroughly disgusted with anyone who thinks it is. Call it whatever you will, but merely allowing a person to possibly collect the bijuu is not hurting anyone.

So yes, Ace, this is me telling you again, if the vote for this goes to the side of character controlling people for no reason then I want nothing further to do with this process. You don't even need to message me, just remove me from the boards and such and I'll know. If I notice it before you I'll pm you to remove me. Knowing the site would willingly kneecap the rp of anyone falling on the evil half of the alignment chart just as a precaution would be more than enough to convince me to just do my own thing and let the rest rot.

I hope you're all very proud, I've been on this site on and off since about 2006, just a little under a decade, and not till today have I believed that we are as bad as everyone says we are. Congratu-fucking-lations on that one.

Than perhaps you should propose a ruling be voted on that a host can only be stripped of said beast brought forth to be stipped and not all of aquired beast. That would certainly be a step in the right direction of what you are seeking. As it resolves the issue of an abundance of beast being stripped at once. While favoring your idea of it being fair to be greedy with the tailed beast. Agreed?

Something like that I could back you on. It makes the ruling issue very straightforward and simple. With a rule like that in place I see no reason to not allow greediness with the tailed beast.

In the end I think most would just void a person who claimed to be the host of the ten tails though. No matter how much work you put into it at the end of the day people just probably won't want to deal with the hassle and issue of it. Thus they void. It is lazy and cowardly on their part no doubt however such is human nature.

So I guess we have to step back and look at it on that standpoint as well. Which option truly gains the most results and/or brings the most harm to the rp world at the site? Would people actually rp against a 10 tails host who is gonna try to take over the world with that tree which is very much like character controlling itself? Would people be more happy having the beast spread throughout the population more? Two very important questions to ask when facing this vote to be cast here.

Honestly Bocc, do you think people would rp with you if you became the 10 tails and actually fight you to death style battle where many people would probably lose their characters lives. This isn't an rp event where one or two people die but one where masses die at SL. Character death is a touchy subject at the site. Do you honestly think people would flock to an rp event where they are gonna probably die in the end no matter the outcome? And you can't say you collected them so just do the tree thing and that is that without a fight... that would be character controlling itself and get the void card.

Would people fight you if you where the ten tails? And if not what would be the point of collecting the 9 beast then?

[Warren]

Tenseigan is, gudodama aren't, though I don't see the relevance in this context because if you let someone hoard several full beasts worth of power then even those don't matter, there won't be anything left to oppose them with except trying to hoard even more beasts, unless one tries to spin even more ridiculous anti-beast custom items/techniques/etc.

To answer your question Kirk, some fighting enthusiasts might try, but majority of people would not even bother...and why would they? Rikudou powered abilities are nigh unanimously voided, and without any beasts left that leaves effectively nothing that could feasibly oppose the juubi host. That's not an RP opportunity of any sort, that's just letting one person play god in their own closed little circle.

That's also why basically everyone prefers the beasts separate, because then hosts can still be opposed, instead of them just roflstomping everyone. Either try get a beast yourself, or some other powerful things like high class susanoo, mokuton, etc.

As for the rest...since you seem to think we're all such scum, then I'll be blunt too.

Shaping rules to serve one persons power fantasy is spoiling the purpose of trying to make some kind of rules to begin with. That's not some great site encompassing anti-Bocchi conspiracy, its just trying to uphold the same thing you yourselves have been so fervently pushing; everyone deserves a chance.

So what if you think you're better than everyone, that you find them trash you can just stomp and take all their things? This isn't about you, this is about everyone, you can't just try push challenger rights to kingdom come, then take a sudden 180 turn and be all me-me-me.

[Bocchiere]

@Kirk: I'm not using the Shinju or the Infinite Tsukuyomi in my plan. And as I mentioned before the whole Juubi event will, I guess, basically be OOC, just for fun. So no one would actually die. I'd have the beasts up until the events conclusion and then give them all out Zenaku style besides the 9 tails.

As for your rule suggestion that makes sense to me. If I challenge someone for the 2 tails and they blow me off I get them stripped of the 2 tails not the 3 tails or whatever. That makes it so the more beasts you have the more on top of it all you have to be so you don't lose any of them. 

@Warren: That's what I am doing, it just so happens that I'm nearly the only person lining up for this chance. I don't think enforcing, "No character control" is a bad precedence to set. And just because I'm one of the only ones capable of pulling it off right now doesn't mean no one else ever will. They should be able to try as well.  If YOU decide to make the Juubi you should be able to do that too. I'm attempting to restrict no one with this, this is all about letting things happen.

[Warren]

Difference between you and me though is I wouldn't even think about trying to mash all the >full< beasts together. That's specifically why I never went after more than pieces, because not only would it have been just an unpleasant rage-filled shitstorm for everyone, but they would actually be able to do something too if I did go bad one day or something like that, instead of just sitting there and getting rekt.

Doing it like you want to in turn would not just remove them from circulation, but also remove any feasible means of opposing you, me, or whoever did it. You may be saying you don't want to restrict, but ultimately that's still what it would be, and that everyone would just have to git gud can't really be used as an answer to that either. Not after what a big deal you guys have made about demanding hosts have to always be possible to find.

[Bocchiere]

Difference between you and me though is I wouldn't even think about trying to mash all the >full< beasts together. That's specifically why I never went after more than pieces, because not only would it have been just an unpleasant rage-filled shitstorm for everyone, but they would actually be able to do something too if I did go bad one day or something like that, instead of just sitting there and getting rekt.

Doing it like you want to in turn would not just remove them from circulation, but also remove any feasible means of opposing you, me, or whoever did it. You may be saying you don't want to restrict, but ultimately that's still what it would be, and that everyone would just have to git gud can't really be used as an answer to that either. Not after what a big deal you guys have made about demanding hosts have to always be possible to find.

I'd get all 9, have my one big, now OOC, fight, and then break it all up like it was before. If I can actually manage to get all 9 Bijuu and the Mazo I don't think one OOC fight is too much to ask. And I  have a lot more faith in the fighters here I guess. Everyone is so much stronger than people in the series, I think it'd be fun to see how they deal with the Juubi. It'd be everyone too like I mentioned I'd want to fight everyone willing all at the same time.

Since you bring up them being removed from circulation lets just officially make it all OOC. Me making the Juubi and having a big fight will all just be for fun. Back in the real world I'll still have the 9 beasts and will even defend them if someone wants to challenge me during that rp.

I really don't see how this could cause any real problems.

[Warren]

If that's all you want then I fail to see the need to press to try make rules about it. I mean literally all you'd have to do is just get whatever willing participants there might be, then go throw the OOC fight fest at a forum thread, a zone or something, chance is high the same people would show up anyway. Like that's it, no need to gather anything, just set the scene and do it >_>; there indeed would be no problems either because everyone else would be left free to keep doing as they wish too meanwhile and after.

Also regardless of that. How would you penalize a person who owns/hosts more than 1 beast? Outside of just being forced to defend all of them once if need be.