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[Bocchiere]

I've had people ask me, "How would you beat someone using Raiton no Yoroi, Sage Mode, and 8 Gates for super speed?" and I think to myself man that is dumb. I do not think we should continue acting like all of these speed buffs stack.

Lightning Armor should be the fastest speed to anyone not the 9 tails host (even then I rp'd it as just a notable step up from Raiton no Yoroi, not that it makes me The Flash) . it is definitely faster than 8 Gates or Sage Mode, so if you use either of those your speed should not increase further. You should get the strength from gates and the other abilities of sage mode but your speed is already topped out.

It has gotten seriously out of hand, I'm gonna call someone out here.

Lightning Release: Kurama Mode
By using his Nine Tailed cloak to empower Lightning Release Chakra Mode, Madara creates a transformation that combines the effects of both jutsu, drastically boosting his speed, strength and durability even further. The yellow aura that would usually surround him in Kurama Mode would turn a wispy blue with occasional sparks of electricity around his person.

That is our current 9 tails Jinchuriki. Dude. Why on earth would you need to take the transformation that is faster than the transformation that is faster than the speed anyone else can have AND MAKE IT FASTER.

This is getting no bueno.

[Rusaku]

I agree that we should not be able to stack speeds boosts and chakra modes like that. It ruins the fun of zone fighting when everyone just goes super sayian god at the beginning of a fight.

I regularly say it to my friends, and I will say it here; everyone just moves at different levels of instant nowadays.

So, I think there should be a limit to what can and cannot be stacked without overloading your body.

Edit: Though I will point out that I don't think lightning armor is the fastest you can be. I don't exactly remember A being able to ignite air with a punch while in that mode like Guy can in only the 6th gate, or match Naruto's kurama sage mode like the Tenseigan chakra mode can. Yeah, it's fast, but not the fastest. Though that's not what this topic is about, so I will digress.

[Warren]

A bit comical considering if memory serves, the favorite middle finger technique of most rinnegan holders at least used to be stacking every speed buff imaginable, then trying to human path the opponent before they can even blink.

But that aside, yes, even logic alone makes it pretty clear there's only so much the body will take before muscles are absolutely shredded and bones smashed to powder >_>; Gai's a good example, even lifting his arm after 1-speed Evening Elephant fractured his arm, and he wasn't even stacking. That's also the reason I made 7 heavens explicitly forbid stacking with gates for example.

In any case I can't really imagine any real objections to this, so perhaps as Rusaku said we should skip the whole arguing what's fastest/strongest, and instead make tentative suggestions of what should perhaps stack and what shouldn't.

[KayentaMoenkopi]

Just passing through to correct a grievous dereliction of duty. *plays ring girl and holds up a sign saying reply #3*

[Hitler-Chan]

While I think this is a great topic, and it's real awesome that we are agreeing on something here, but there happens to a glaring issue that has yet to be touched on.

While people can be like, "I'm going Sixth gate, Sage mode, and RNY, then I'm gonna run at you from 10 feet away with Shunshin!" I can guarantee every single one of you will react. >> The problem isn't with people stacking it's that there is an overall disconnect on how fast things/people actually move, and what is actually possible to react to. No matter how fast ANY of us move, it does not matter at all, a reaction will ALWAYS be made. This topic cannot accomplish anything unless Mr. Bocchiere teaches the populous Physics, and the science of EVERY relevant body part that is involved with reactions, and reflexes.

But that aside, yes, even logic alone makes it pretty clear there's only so much the body will take before muscles are absolutely shredded and bones smashed to powder >_>; Gai's a good example, even lifting his arm after 1-speed Evening Elephant fractured his arm, and he wasn't even stacking...

If 'logic' is being used as the basis of this argument, and oh boy that's a path we want to go down. Sage mode gives passive durability, one that has never been elaborated (To my knowledge) other than the ONE instance where he falls on those spikes. If durability of muscles, and bones is the basis of the argument here, then we must not just omit the fact that Sage mode users are afforded a certain amount of resistance or some durability.

Gai for instance in the 6th gate can ignite air with a punch. To do this, his fist would have to travel at roughly twice the speed of sound (I've done the calculations >> Ask Rusaku), and yet there were no sonic booms, no HUGE walls of air surrounding his fist as they should have. This was ONLY 6th gate, and already the bounds of reality have been broken.

If this comes to pass, Sage mode users get nerfed extra hard. We ain't got shite worth talking about over Rinny users if our speed is taken, oh our jutsu is supposedly 3x 'stronger', Oh we are supposed to be able to move real fast, and be real strong/durable?  The majority of Rinny users 'match' any of that through training anyway? (You know you do it >>)

And apparently all men are created equal here, and we all based our characters off of Gai, because he is being used as the baseline which makes for a disingenuous argument. There are people running around claiming all kinds of immunity, and passive nigh-impenetrable durability. The fact of the matter is, the standard here is higher than the Naru-verse. People claim all kinds of shite that breaks the supposed bounds that we all 'MUST' abide by, some people even claim 'variants' of banned Rikudo/Sage techniques anyway, so all I am reading here is. YEAH NERF SAGE MODE! 

TL;DR: Nah dawg. Unless fair compensation is given to retain the relative balance between Sage Mode V. Rinny.

[Bocchiere]

Saying you can't stack speed buffs to move at a speed you arguably could not respond to is a nerf to sage mode? Sage mode is already much better than rinnegan. Topping out at raiton no yoroi speeds isn't a nerf its just asking to stop making this dc comics.

[Hitler-Chan]

Saying you can't stack speed buffs to move at a speed you arguably could not respond to is a nerf to sage mode? Sage mode is already much better than rinnegan. Topping out at raiton no yoroi speeds isn't a nerf its just asking to stop making this dc comics.

That was exactly my point. Regardless of how fast any of us claim to move, a reaction will be made. I could throw a baseball at you at speed of 10000 m/s (you can do the conversions), from 10 feet away, and still it wouldn't matter.

[Warren]

You do realize the complaint of people matching senjutsu speed/strength is basically moot, because just the same every senjutsu user will claim to win every single jutsu clash because of senjutsu?

Simpler said, 'we don't want you doing the thing we already do'.

[Bocchiere]

Saying you can't stack speed buffs to move at a speed you arguably could not respond to is a nerf to sage mode? Sage mode is already much better than rinnegan. Topping out at raiton no yoroi speeds isn't a nerf its just asking to stop making this dc comics.

That was exactly my point. Regardless of how fast any of us claim to move, a reaction will be made. I could throw a baseball at you at speed of 10000 m/s (you can do the conversions), from 10 feet away, and still it wouldn't matter.

Would it be preferable that all zone fights are decided by who goes first and throws a 10,000 mph punch?

[Hitler-Chan]

Saying you can't stack speed buffs to move at a speed you arguably could not respond to is a nerf to sage mode? Sage mode is already much better than rinnegan. Topping out at raiton no yoroi speeds isn't a nerf its just asking to stop making this dc comics.

That was exactly my point. Regardless of how fast any of us claim to move, a reaction will be made. I could throw a baseball at you at speed of 10000 m/s (you can do the conversions), from 10 feet away, and still it wouldn't matter.

Would it be preferable that all zone fights are decided by who goes first and throws a 10,000 mph punch?

First off, you can't attack on the first post

Second, Zone fights are already just that. Rusaku and I had a conversation about it a while ago and summed it up to this,

Entrance Post of Joe Billy.

Entrance of Billy Joe.

Joe Billy throws 'his' strongest thing in the world at Billy Joe.

Billy Joe Counters by throwing 'his' strongest thing in the world at Joe Billy.

Maybe some setup here and there, but it always equates to some variation of that.

Like I said before, unless you endeavor to teach physics to the community, and we are all okay with a standard that uses actual numbers to equate how fast things are moving, not expressions like, "Moving at a blurring speed!" Or a personal fav, "Faster than a blink of the eye." Then I am not exactly sure how anything will be accomplished other than just removing buffs from the game altogether.

[Bocchiere]

The point is to keep speed at a reasonable level. Raiton no yoroi is already faster than almost anything. A could dodge point blank attacks that strike almost instantly. But you can still fight that, you don't need to be so fast no one can fight you that's just God modding.

[Hitler-Chan]

The point is to keep speed at a reasonable level. Raiton no yoroi is already faster than almost anything. A could dodge point blank attacks that strike almost instantly. But you can still fight that, you don't need to be so fast no one can fight you that's just God modding.

Okay. If RNY is going to be used as the basis as the fastest we can go, EXCLUDING things like KCM, and other allowed cloaks. How are people without KCM or other not being named cloaks, counter those people who are explicitly faster? Sage mode users ain't got the, "Oh Shit!" button that Rinny users have in Shinra Tensei. We'll just get run down by people who are faster, and beat up. I don't feel like getting beat up >>

Of course I am playing Devil's advocate here, but I hope my point is clear-ish.

[Bocchiere]

You could use a senjutsu enhanced Omni directional blast of wind or hyuuga attack if you have byakugan and achieve the same effect as shinra tensei.

Use susanoo if you have sharingan or kamui. Do anything to trick them into hitting you when you have Bakuton. There's lots you can do.

[Masane]

And you guys say I'm op. I would Never do that. That's crazy.

[Becquerel]

I've looked through this topic and would like to state my opinion. Speed is a touchy subject in a game where everything is in our heads because, as Riku said, people always react to everything. Even if you did something sneaky that meant a bomb would go off right next to someone's head, they would likely still react to it. Everyone seems to also take from the Naruto powerlevel cap and add onto it (I won't lie, I'm guilty of this too).

But the problem come from everyone being super fast and just becoming super faster. You can make calculations and add math into it if you want to make it less fun (for some), but then people will just outmath you (see Marvel/DC comics). I believe being descriptive and also trying to physically adjust your character based on the situation is the best thing.

Such as with Becquerel. I don't often use his jet boosters, but when I do I make it so that he can't really see what's happening during this time because his speed is faster than his eyes can take in. (kind of like this guy for One Piece fans http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Kuro) Sure, he can move fast at max speed, but then he's kind of just barreling through things without knowing what's going on. Perhaps other people can limit their characters somehow by basically adding a debuff to the super-speed. Such as increased stamina drain, joint damage, dizziness, etc.