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Author Topic: An Open Letter to the Community  (Read 1721 times)

Bocchiere

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An Open Letter to the Community
« on: March 08, 2016, 08:01:03 AM »

I just wanted to set a couple things straight since I am given the opportunity to give what may be my final words here. I’m not sure what my decisions will be yet.

What I did on the wiki is what I thought was right. I don’t expect that to convince anyone who already believes otherwise to change their view but there you go. I do apologize for the way I handled it and some other things on the wiki though.

It’s no secret to anyone here that I am aggressive and quick to anger, but that’s because I actually do care about this place quite a bit. I know we all do, in spite of ourselves sometimes, because we keep coming back here. I’ve got a lot of passion for this and that can quickly become anger. I’m better at controlling it than I once was but that just wound up meaning it took longer for me to finally snap this time. Regardless of what I think that was not appropriate either.

I don’t think in my shoes most of you would have done much different though. We all have our biases and, more importantly, the things we think are right.

You guys have no problems calling me corrupt, or greedy, or a bully but Kayenta, you’re going to tell me you’ve never jumped down someone’s throat just because they did something you don’t agree with in rp? Like maybe two people fighting a bijuu match? Xia? You guys really going to tell me that even if this was the most clear cut call ever, like if all the swords were actually claimed by Gitsune and she’d hadn’t been on in 2 years, that you wouldn’t have raised just as much of a fuss? Come on, let’s be honest with ourselves. If we were to look at the actions of any of the people who have been vocal against me in a different light they could look corrupt, greedy, or mean. It’s not easy to consider that someone doing something you disagree with might be trying to do what they think is right, it’s a lot easier to dismiss them as liars or cheaters or bullies.

That’s why we always devolve into these fights because it is impossible for us to interact with some people when we view everything they do through, “This person is definitely lying, they always lie. This person is definitely just trying to manipulate things like always. This guy is a cheat just like before.” It’s hard to change your way of thinking and acting, god knows I haven’t been able to manage, but if we don’t this place is going to keep dying.

I could go on for a while but I don’t want to just start rambling or offend someone. Hopefully this might do a little good.

If you’ve got anything you need to say to met go ahead and get it off your chest. Just pm me. That includes if you’ve ever really wanted to tell me where to stick it too, don’t hold anything back, I’m not going to be reporting anyone.

And thank you, everyone.
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Becquerel

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2016, 11:37:44 AM »

The whole time I've been here, I've heard bad things about you prior to your arrival. Though, in my experience, I haven't really seen any of it. I do think that your words might be a bit rough for some people to handle, and that with this current issue you did take an improper action that led to a whole heap of trouble. But, I can understand where you're coming from. You were unhappy with the way some things were going and being done and decided to take action, but you understand that what you did was wrong.

We all have our own idiosyncrasies and that's what makes us all individuals. And the players of this game do make a family of sorts when you look at it as a community. Because without all of us caring for it, Neji would just be hosting an empty server. We all have different reasons for being here, but I believe we all just want to have fun in the end. I have seen improvement in the community in my time here. And with it being as small as it is, we really gotta work together in order to enjoy our time :)

What happened happened, but It takes a lot to say what you said and own up to your mistake. So, I just wanted to commend you on that. I'm not condoning your actions, just in case people want to take my post that way.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 12:23:48 PM »

This reply is certainly taking me quite a long time to decide if i even want to post.

Here is the thing.

When you care about a community, you consider the people. And when you shit on them, or do wrong, you admit it.

In all the years we have been here, you have never told me you were sorry for anything that you have done to me. Ever. We don't need a listing of such things. We both know they were horrid. At least I know they were. I think from reading this you feel like you had good reason to act like that.

So here we are, and you are trying to...make a statement. And I am quite conflicted about it all.

Just yesterday you were posting lies about me on the wikia. Saying that I was removed as a GM for ranting at folks. When the truth is that I quit being a GM because you and Ice and Yujo were flamming at me all over the site and it was just too much to take.

I was removed as a village section GM of this forum for....when dark and his woman would not stop harassing me in pms after I asked them to just leave me alone, I told them both to fuck off and put them on ignore. They petitioned against me. Ace removed me. He said it was behavior unbecoming of staff.

And that is the point. It is not about if you had a good reason, or even one that you thought was a good reason. Your behavior was horrid. Not the edits. The way you talk to people and about them in public.

Ok...so while trying to make your ...statement here...the very first signs of contrition i have ever seen out of you...what do you do?

you justify your actions, and lash out at me and xia.

Normally sincerity is not accompanied by so much squirming as you choke back the bile you feel for being ...what looks like...forced to say sorry and make nice or ....or I do not know what would force this.

In the past I have forgiven. and you have come right back and slapped me simple. do I take that well.

hell no, big shocker.

What do I want?

what I have always wanted. I want you to be nice to me like you were before this game and being right became more important than me. more important than anyone or their feelings.

and what is this...if anyone wants to talk then pm me? well if you are sorry about how you been talking to me, then why aren't you the one pming me?

You know this one time I went around for the longest time thinking you hated me. I happened to mention it in a pm one night and you said, "I don't hate you kay" and this shit ton of darkness just lifted right off me and we started actually getting along and visiting a bit. And then you proposed something on the forum and I was against it and you just raged and name called and...all that stuff about my intelligence, how people want me to just go away and shut up and much much  worse out of your mouth.

I have been here with you before on numerous occasions...

And although I have an amazing capacity for forgiveness...

I don't know. I think this time I am going to have to see the change first and forgive later.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 12:29:27 PM by KayentaMoenkopi »
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Eric

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 03:58:58 PM »

Bocchiere, I think you and Masane would have made an interesting couple. Perhaps your hearts were in the right place, but boy when your fuses finally reached the limit.  :D Masane nor you may appreciate that comment but someone's gotta slightly lighten the mood around here before getting into the thick of it.

Most everyone I know around here has played politician at one point or another, a few of those I've interacted with have seen me go completely ballistic a time or two. I've got a far longer fuse than most and generally have a smaller radius of effect than you. I think Warren might agree that my area of effect might be comparable to Masane though. ^_^

Kayenta, if you feel that Bocchiere is lashing out at you and Xia even now, then you honestly have a low standard of what a Bocchiere-lashing really is, and that's kind of strange considering your own personal interactions with him. Like, if you want to, read it again, this time without the lenses that Bocchiere sent it and under the lenses of it just being a detached quote:

Quote
You guys have no problems calling me corrupt, or greedy, or a bully but Kayenta, you’re going to tell me you’ve never jumped down someone’s throat just because they did something you don’t agree with in rp? Like maybe two people fighting a bijuu match? Xia? You guys really going to tell me that even if this was the most clear cut call ever, like if all the swords were actually claimed by Gitsune and she’d hadn’t been on in 2 years, that you wouldn’t have raised just as much of a fuss? Come on, let’s be honest with ourselves. If we were to look at the actions of any of the people who have been vocal against me in a different light they could look corrupt, greedy, or mean. It’s not easy to consider that someone doing something you disagree with might be trying to do what they think is right, it’s a lot easier to dismiss them as liars or cheaters or bullies.

That's pretty tame for Bocchiere. Especially in admitting that he is guilty of prejudices:

Quote
That’s why we always devolve into these fights because it is impossible for us to interact with some people when we view everything they do through, “This person is definitely lying, they always lie. This person is definitely just trying to manipulate things like always. This guy is a cheat just like before.” It’s hard to change your way of thinking and acting, god knows I haven’t been able to manage, but if we don’t this place is going to keep dying.

Bocc (and others) viewing Kiri like this is part of what caused the Swords debacle to begin with, and then Kiri (and others) viewing Bocc a certain way caused the discussion to flow more into how down and dirty Bocc is rather than trying to get down to why the Activity Clause half of us had forgotten about was being evoked and, more importantly, whether his actions were an attempt at some "rule of law" or "dictatorial command".

Turns out it was an attempt at "Rule of Law", and both executed differently and by someone else, it might would have been seen as such. The biggest problem I have with his initial execution was that he didn't open it for discussion on the forum first, and then proceeded, as he specifically stated that some people talked to him about it:

Quote
Believe it or not this was not even my idea. I knew for a time that, yes, your swords could be claimed with the inactivity clause. I had no reason to kick the hornets nest that is Kirigakure's sense of entitlement though. However with your recent trampling of the bijuu rules, frequent large arguments, and utter refusal to compromise with anyone, you've pissed alot of people off. Those people who were also willing to let your sealed claims slide were no longer willing to do so, they got tired of you deciding you get to choose what rules you get to follow,while also insisting everyone do everything just the way you want it. So they came to me as they knew that I would be willing to enforce rules, the only rules you could be forced to follow.

Who were these "people"? My guess is that you can scope out some of those who supported his actions on the wikia and get an idea of who they might be. This was not just Bocc who wanted the swords gone, but it was Bocc who ultimately did the action of removing them because he was the only one who had the power to do so. I have some faith that Shadow would have likely done the same thing if he had the power, and the reaction might would have been a little milder (but not by much, it was a Kiri strip situation after all).

Anyways, I'm not here to write "The Defense of Guenevere", err, "The Defense of Bocchiere" in full, because how he retaliated in anger was unacceptable for a staff member of the wikia. Bocc already knows the particular area I find disagreeable and case damaging from PM's. We have all sinned and fallen short of glory, but even the bloody devil had a reason for giving up servitude in heaven for rule in hell. A greater poet (Milton for any who know of Paradise Lost) could paint the devil as a revolutionary rebelling against what he saw as an unjust monarch. Bocchiere isn't just an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. He like Masane has a bit of an anger issue that, while more tempered than in the past, is still ever present, and a part of his personality.

That makes him unfit for the position of administrator or moderator, but not unfit for the position of player, in my opinion.

If that has to be my final remarks on you Bocchiere, let it be known that it takes a certain mindset to make "a heaven of hell" and a "hell of heaven", to quote that work yet again. If/When you make a fresh start, just remember to keep that temper in check so that you don't lose yourself to your anger.

Good luck.

~ Eric Nara
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 04:00:19 PM by Eric »
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 06:13:48 PM »

Quote
Kayenta, if you feel that Bocchiere is lashing out at you and Xia even now, then you honestly have a low standard of what a Bocchiere-lashing really is, and that's kind of strange considering your own personal interactions with him. Like, if you want to, read it again, this time without the lenses that Bocchiere sent it and under the lenses of it just being a detached quote:

Eric: I read it quite a few times. And despite your assessment of where my lenses are focused, I feel that considering the numerous incidents between Bocchiere and myself, it is more than fair...a butt ton more than fair. NO one deserved a brofiles, let alone the one I was handed.

And yet here I am and have ever been willing to extend that second and third and forth chance. Who nominated him for a GM slot hoping his return would herald a new day and the opportunity for him to show the best of himself instead of the worst?

Ah yeah, that was me. Even after everything.

I am not addressing the edit or the swords or any of that.

I am focused completely on his treatment of myself and others when faced with disagreements.

And I am going to repeat myself...

 I think this time I am going to have to see the change first and forgive later.

at any rate, i am not going to justify my feelings in this matter to you or anyone further. My post was to Bocc and if he feels the need to say anything to me he knows how to pm me on sl.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 06:17:06 PM by KayentaMoenkopi »
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Eric

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 07:04:33 PM »

Quote
Kayenta, if you feel that Bocchiere is lashing out at you and Xia even now, then you honestly have a low standard of what a Bocchiere-lashing really is, and that's kind of strange considering your own personal interactions with him. Like, if you want to, read it again, this time without the lenses that Bocchiere sent it and under the lenses of it just being a detached quote:

Eric: I read it quite a few times. And despite your assessment of where my lenses are focused, I feel that considering the numerous incidents between Bocchiere and myself, it is more than fair...a butt ton more than fair. NO one deserved a brofiles, let alone the one I was handed.

And yet here I am and have ever been willing to extend that second and third and forth chance. Who nominated him for a GM slot hoping his return would herald a new day and the opportunity for him to show the best of himself instead of the worst?

Ah yeah, that was me. Even after everything.

I am not addressing the edit or the swords or any of that.

I am focused completely on his treatment of myself and others when faced with disagreements.

And I am going to repeat myself...

 I think this time I am going to have to see the change first and forgive later.

at any rate, i am not going to justify my feelings in this matter to you or anyone further. My post was to Bocc and if he feels the need to say anything to me he knows how to pm me on sl.

Fair enough.
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Bocchiere

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2016, 11:50:32 PM »

Kay, I do believe my actions, the enforcement of rules, was justified. How I handled it and my behavior in the aftermath was not. I was not lashing out at you or Xia merely explaining how I think even the people most contrary to me can act just the same as me, in defense of what they think is right with great fervor.

Regardless I do apologize to you, Xia, Warren, Ice, and the rest of the people I've been insulting to. It's never been ok to do and I should have been working on keeping a handle on that before anything else.

I spoke with Neji and he asked me why I escalated things to such a degree in spite of knowing how much distaste I can generate. I had to think about it and I want to explain what I thought here as well.

I did enforce the rules on the wiki as I explained before, I was asked to and I did not fudge them and I did and do think Kiri violated them. What I thought I could do as an end result though was if I got Kiri to willingly acknowledge they were wrong than maybe we could all be a little more willing to do so, and less willing to fight about every little thing tooth and nail. That's why I was willing to talk about the rule and explain my decision but not compromise on the rule itself. In essence I was trying to force them into accepting they were wrong and in turn make everyone a little more willing to do so.

And yeah I realize how stupid that is after I actually wrote it all down. Logically, morally, that makes as much sense as forcing someone to do charity work at gunpoint so they'll be a better person.

I don't think the end goal is wrong though, just the "ends justify the means" approach I took was. Not only was it incredibly misguided but, even more damning to myself, it was cowardly. I tried to force the onus for change on someone else because I wasn't willing and was afraid to do it myself. I wanted to have a community where everyone fought less but also still wanted to be right about everything. I wasn't willing to give anything up to make that change a reality and so instead I am liable to lose everything, and I deserve that.

I hope that in the future there are more people, like Bec, people better than me, who can make this goal a reality. Then this place can prosper again. If it's decided that can't happen with me here than I accept that decision. If by chance that is not the decision that is reached than I may just make it myself all the same, because I no longer feel confident in my ability to do any good here and I think that means it is time to go.

In the coming days, one way or another, this will be decided.

Thank you all, again, for being a very influential part of my life for a long time.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2016, 12:47:17 AM »

Hugs.

THAT is how to given an apology.


It is wrong of people to come to you and push you to force anyone to do anything as well. To make others change and admit their wrongs.

All we can do it say, I am wrong. I will change. I won't feel like this. I won't make others feel like that. and so on.

It is not our job to be the police of the world but to police ourselves.

For those of you who believe in god, in any form...

god gave us self-rule, not others-rule.

I too do not feel that I would be good staff. My buttons are too shinny and bright and easily pushed.

And I have many a dark night of the soul. Heh, just last week, in fact.

So feel this lack of confidence. analyze it. Clasp it to yourself.

then make the changes.

get up and try again.

Its the best anyone can do.
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Yomi

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2016, 03:37:18 AM »

I won't write a long one here, because I think we already covered everything when we talked yesterday in the PMs.

But I'll say these again:
  • Everyone should have a say in anything that involves the community. Listen to both sides of the story.
  • When deciding what should be the best action, think of what's best for the community. Ask around, listen and have patience. Weigh your options. Try to foresee consequences.
  • Being in a position of power doesn't mean it's a free ticket to force anyone/a group to accept what you think is right. It may look like a promising spot, but in reality, it can be a hard job because it will require you to be neutral and set aside personal hurts every once in a while. Don't favor one side just because you don't like the other.
  • It's a matter of communication and talking civilly with those involved that problems and arguments can be avoided.
  • The community can become unbearable at times, but you might as well set a better example.
I do hope you'll do better if ever the chance comes up. Good luck.
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Genesis

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Re: An Open Letter to the Community
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2016, 03:45:12 PM »

I'm not going to say much, but I'll say this:

You're a good guy Bocc and you have good intentions. But you played dirty many times before you returned...which there's nothing wrong with. If there was a "House of Cards" of SL, you would be Frank Underwood. You played dirty, but you got your way more than once...but you still had some honor about it. I respect that.

But, you made enemies...got a lot of enemies.

In the path of you trying to become an SL god, you ruffled a lot of feathers. I can't speak personally since you didn't do anything to Uzu, but your reputation is that of a heartless jashinist.

But, I admire you of playing the hardest role in SL, the antagonist. In SL, if anyone tried to play the antagonist, they are hounded. They take it way too personally. I think that's where the disdain and mistrust is rooted.

I won't comment on what you did as an admin since I barely knew what was going on, but you're a PR disaster waiting to happen...no offense. You had a target on your back since you came back, it was only a matter of time.

But...I'll say this Bocc. You're probably the most accomplished person on SL...I'd say you're up there with Zenaku. Why? Because if when people see your name on the list of warriors or say the name "Bocc" or "Bocchiere", it illicits something. Whether it be anger or frustration, maybe a hint of nervousness...your name illicits something. And for that, I think you can leave SL accomplished since you actually have a legacy here.

And with that, I'll say 'adieu'.
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

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