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[Trev]

I use to do the whole rage things years back, but I went on an rp with Kay to ryuuchi cave (Jugo clan origins)  and did an rp to seal my emotions.

I mean if the community wanted that as a nerf, I wouldn't be opposed to saying you can't do loopholes to emotions or looking grotesque.

[Warren]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me those two examples aren't nerfs, but rather the starting point. If anybody actually did those like you used to, then there'd actually be a solid base for working senninka off of.

[Trev]

It's kinda a nerf. Being a raging killer who attacks allies would run you into problems.

But I should have said rule, more than nerf, as this topics is about rules.

If the starting rule for Senninka was you have to be a homicidal maniac like Jugo, for some of the greater benefits later, I think people would be fine with it. I would anyway.

[Kage]

Well the whole "senjutsu > ninjutsu" thing is sort of the whole point of it. Otherwise it wouldn't be a power-up in the first place. Same thing with the Rinnegan and the Sharingan.

If we're really talking about nerfs, then let's bring up the Rinnegan too. It's chakra consumption and power is already stated to be too much for most people who get it implanted to use. Even for Obito who was a Uchiha and has Hashirama's genes composing half his body, could only handle just one Rinnegan and even went as far as to use it minimally. Naturals get a pass on most aspects of it though.

Back to the topic, putting a numerical value to the time it takes to absorb Natural Energy and the length of which one can be in Sage Mode based on it would be an across the board nerf for any and all users of Sage Mode. It's like saying "Hey, I know you've had Sage Mode mastered to a really good extent, but now all that doesn't count anymore." I myself claim to be able to jump into it instantaneously, since I've had claimed to have it for a long while and went even further beyond mastery to study Natural Energy and it's applications.

But the whole "1 turn gathering = 2 turns active" thing is silly to begin with. Naruto's Sage Mode can last a really long time if he doesn't continually spam Rasengan and Rasenshuriken. And Senninka users are indefinite on being able to stay in their transformations. With enough self-control and skill, even they can become like Jugo and stay pretty chill for a long while. Dude didn't even randomly stab Sasuke in the back while riding in his Susanoo and fueling him with Senjutsu Chakra.

[Warren]

In other words you went exactly the kind of non-canon cheat with it as was aforementioned. Even at the height of his power Naruto never could jump into instant full power, even with Kurama's help it took either a notable moment of standing still or having a clone charging elsewhere, and he was the one dude in entire that worlds history who was second only to Hagoromo himself in sage arts.

[Kage]

Actually, it's pretty canon that people can go straight into it. Naruto and Minato did it easily in chapters 535 and 665. You can count Jugo and his entire clan for that too for obvious reasons, though their issue is more-over self-control of their own intake and expulsion of it.

Like I said before though, some of these nerfs are silly. Most notably the one where those who are of Jugo's clan MUST become crazy and all. When contrary to this purposed nerf, Jugo can be chill even in the use of his Senjutsu-fueled abilities. It takes a lot of self-control, but it's possible.

[Warren]

Except Naruto stood still fair time there so for all we know he may have been gathering power already to try bust out if they tried to stop him with force. Impossible to know, yet implication motionless gathering period is required, especially as it took a while for pigmentation to finish even after it did appear, so moot example.

Minato himself said he sucks at senjutsu and needs ages to gather the power. Moot example again.

[Eric]

Except Naruto stood still fair time there so for all we know he may have been gathering power already to try bust out if they tried to stop him with force. Impossible to know, yet implication motionless gathering period is required, especially as it took a while for pigmentation to finish even after it did appear, so moot example.

Minato himself said he sucks at senjutsu and needs ages to gather the power. Moot example again.

What? Minato entered sage mode fairly quickly in the actual manga, despite what he said. When he said "slow" he meant relative to a hiraishin centered fighting style. For all practical reasons Minato was pretty good at senjutsu, good enough to enter perfect sage mode at the least.

[Bocchiere]

I mean people aren't technically wrong about what they're doing it just isn't good game play wise.

In the late manga they seem to stand still for like 3 seconds and then remain in sage mode for as long as they need. So people aren't exactly going  against the source there. I just assumed that, like Edo Tensei, people might want to make rules to make it a little more fair.

[Bocchiere]

So I had an idea for balancing the Juugo clan passive gathering ability.

I totally forgot that was a KG. I thought it was Hiden. So even if people are claiming just the passive energy gathering I think it should take the place of one of their KG slots. The maximum that has ever been allowed seems to be

Doujutsu
Elemental KG
Body KG
Sage Art
Kekkei Tota

I think the ability to be able to unstoppably gather natural energy and be able to indefinitely remain in perfect sage mode (which is how people other than Trev seem to use it) is strong enough that it should take a slot. People seem to think if they don't claim the shapeshifting they should just be able to have it for free but implanted KG are always weaker anyway.

Just my thought on the matter.

[Becquerel]

I don't see what's wrong with that at all. But, doesn't the problem also stem from the fact that many people claim multiple KGs? This would only apply to people who follow the one-per-slot format that you're presenting.

And, all three of these (Doujutsu, Elemental KG, Body KG) technically are KG...So would you only be allowed one KG that would have to fall into one of the three slots, or one of each? And would the Juugo one fall into the body one, if so?

And I also thought passive energy gaining was just a normal thing, kind of like how you can 'charge' in the games. Is it really clan-specific?

[Bocchiere]

I don't see what's wrong with that at all. But, doesn't the problem also stem from the fact that many people claim multiple KGs? This would only apply to people who follow the one-per-slot format that you're presenting.

And, all three of these (Doujutsu, Elemental KG, Body KG) technically are KG...So would you only be allowed one KG that would have to fall into one of the three slots, or one of each? And would the Juugo one fall into the body one, if so?

And I also thought passive energy gaining was just a normal thing, kind of like how you can 'charge' in the games. Is it really clan-specific?

We could say it specifically takes the place of a specific slot if we wanted, probably body, but as long as they don't claim one I think it would be fine. That is based off the reset system which many people use for the rules on KG limits.

When I refer to passive gathering I mean passive gathering at all times, moving, fighting, sleeping, you're always gathering Natural Energy so you could always enter Sage Mode and remain in it indefinitely and there's nothing anyone can do about it. That's really strong and completely removed Sage Mode's main weakness.

[UettoSenju]

Hello children... Sage Mode limitations? Well let me sing you a little song about that.


Basically I'll explain the way I always rped it.

Simply put I always rped that I could enter it on a whim just yto get ythat out the way. However, by doing so I could only remain that way for a short period of that post and perhaps slightly into another. It mainly wads used for when the physical hax  where needed on a whim. And not really an in battle thing. For example if I was some feet away from an ally and they were being attacked by a stronger faster person I'd use it on a whim to boost Uetto's physical attributes as to get between the two. I tghunk it goes with out saying Uetto's Sage Enhanced speed and strength were top notch, hehehe. Regardless there is a major down side to this and that is how fast it wears off and the power crash sets in.

Now as for gathering energy I always did it lasted x3 of how many post  spent gathering. With a max of only being able to go up to 15 post of usage so gathering longer than 5 post is pointless.

As for other means there were clones and my chakra storage scrolls I used as well. I rped both of these allowing 8 rounds of sage mode. This same concept can be used with seal that store natural energy to release it into the user as well. Or one using a curse seal of sorts. And perhaps the Jugo cells.

Other than that I typically merged with my summons in order to achieve the natural energy flow during battle. It was my most common way of using it. Of course there was bno limit to a time span of lasting. It lasted so long as they were merged. But if they could be separated from me than the Sage Mode would instantly break and the chakra crash take over.

Oh I say chakra crash like the crash from using energy drinks. I mean really that is what it is like to me. You use it to get a bust like you would a red bull and then you crash hard when it wears off.