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Poll

Do you want the Council to explicitly have these powers?

Yes
- 1 (16.7%)
No
- 5 (83.3%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: June 05, 2016, 02:33:36 pm


Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Explicit Powers of the Council  (Read 811 times)

Eric

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Explicit Powers of the Council
« on: May 26, 2016, 02:33:36 pm »

Yay or nay to the Council essentially playing chief executives, having the following powers:

* To make rulings on any and all rule violations, deciding the matter of strip or other appropriate punishments.

* Said rulings will be decided by a vote among the Council Members. A Council member may abstain unless that result leads up to a tie, at which time a side must be chosen in order to break the tie.

*  For the Biju Council to address active rule violations in a match, the match Judge or one of the players must bring the matter to the Council via village square, public thread topic.

*The Council has 7 days to make a ruling. Any Members who do not vote by that time are considered as having abstained. If this leads to a tie, the Council member(s) considered abstain then have 3 more days to pick one side or the other. If this leads to a tie again, then the accused rulebreaker will be considered innocent of rulebreaking for that instance.

* Council Members who, by the end of their cycle as Council Member, have more than half of their vote calls as "abstained", will not be eligible to run again for Council Member the  immediate election cycle. They may participate in the cycle after that.

* The Council's decisions are final, and can only be contested in the case of a tie ruling. If such is the case, the topic is brought up in village square outlining the circumstances and a poll of the general community is taken. The poll will be left open for 10 days, during which time Council Member votes are treated as regular community votes. There can be no more than 3 options for voting - one of them must be to keep the Council ruling- and the majority vote at the end of the 10 days is considered the new ruling and goes into effect immediately. If there is another tie, then the Council's original decision still stands.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2016, 06:45:18 pm »

Yay or nay to the Council essentially playing chief executives, having the following powers:

* To make rulings on any and all rule violations, deciding the matter of strip or other appropriate punishments.
No. too vague. It leaves a loop hole for council members to bring up issues that have not been brought before them. I propose this:
Council members will make rulings on rule violations brought before the council for arbitration and decide the appropriate action to take in resolving the issue.

* Said rulings will be decided by a vote among the Council Members. A Council member may abstain unless that result leads up to a tie, at which time a side must be chosen in order to break the tie.
No. All members must vote. If you are not going to be voting what good are you? We presume that a council member will be active. No bench sitters if you please. I propose this:
Rulings will be decided by a vote among the 5 council members within 7 days from the date the issue is brought to their attention. This 7 day period will include reviewing the issue as presented by all parties involved, discussion among council members, and a vote on what their resolution will be.

*  For the Biju Council to address active rule violations in a match, the match Judge or one of the players must bring the matter to the Council via village square, public thread topic.
Yes. It is important for the general public to know an issue is in discussion so that potential challengers will not become anxious over perceived inactivity of the current challenge match. This will prevent accusations of inactivity from arising if it is known that an arbitration is being conducted. It is not the duty of council members to be cruising bijuu matches for potential rule violations and then interrupting proceedings.

*The Council has 7 days to make a ruling. Any Members who do not vote by that time are considered as having abstained. If this leads to a tie, the Council member(s) considered abstain, (argh, grammar edit...considered to be in abstention!) then have 3 more days to pick one side or the other. If this leads to a tie again, then the accused rulebreaker will be considered innocent of rulebreaking for that instance.
No. given my objection to abstention from voting/performing their duties, this rule seems noncongruent and should be struck completely.

* Council Members who, by the end of their cycle as Council Member, have more than half of their vote calls as "abstained", will not be eligible to run again for Council Member the  immediate election cycle. They may participate in the cycle after that.
Again, No abstentions. However, I propose this to take its place:
Council members who fail to meet the demands of their position, (voting on all issues brought to the council) shall be removed from office by the other council members. Inactivity of a council member is inexcusable without a leave of absence notification. Should a council member need to take a leave, and a vote comes up during their absence, a staff member of SL will be called upon to stand in on a temporary basis. Council members who have been removed will not be eligible to run for office in the next term's election, but may run again in the session after that.

* The Council's decisions are final, and can only be contested in the case of a tie ruling. If such is the case, the topic is brought up in village square outlining the circumstances and a poll of the general community is taken. The poll will be left open for 10 days, during which time Council Member votes are treated as regular community votes. There can be no more than 3 options for voting - one of them must be to keep the Council ruling- and the majority vote at the end of the 10 days is considered the new ruling and goes into effect immediately. If there is another tie, then the Council's original decision still stands.
No. All rulings will be final. I for one am done with endless debates. However, No ties! 5 voters required for all issues brought before the council. If a council member is not available, the drafting of an SL staff member will be called upon to fill the role temporarily.

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2016, 07:29:32 pm »

Ooohhhhh Kay is relentless!!! Though I do agree with her corrections. Was the council not created to end the never-ending debates? Then absolution of our rulings should indeed be final, something like a tie shouldn't be possible.
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Eric

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 12:33:38 am »

Well Kayenta, based on the number of "nos", I am going to have to assume I somewhat succeeding in making sure there were some replies to the topic.  8) But also that where my head was at was pretty different from where yours was on the matter by the discussion topic's end.


Quote
No. too vague. It leaves a loop hole for council members to bring up issues that have not been brought before them.

It's neither vague nor a place for a "loophole" at all: that "loophole" was the whole purpose of writing it that way; I still believe that the biju council should be able to intervene in a match even if the matter is not brought to their attention by someone else. A breaking of the rules is a breaking of the rules regardless of whether the other party takes benefit or nothing from it.


Quote
No. All members must vote. If you are not going to be voting what good are you? We presume that a council member will be active.

Quote
* Council Members who, by the end of their cycle as Council Member, have more than half of their vote calls as "abstained", will not be eligible to run again for Council Member the  immediate election cycle. They may participate in the cycle after that.

This time around, we have 6 candidates for biju Council, MAYBE we'll have 7 or 5 next time, this initial turnout isn't particularly promising as far as the number of eager beavers. The Council Member cannot judge fights, cannot be a tailed beast controller in any shape or form, and cannot be kage; among those actually interested and capable we have a fairly low pool even eligible.

IF we were going to just recruit staff members from the game to fill in the Council, heck, we should have started with that instead of bothering with the election process. Those staff members were indeed elected to be GM's, but they can't fulfill their GM duty and be a Council Member if a biju pops into the equation because of the restrictions on what Council members can do.

I wholly reject the idea of staff members being drafted for the cause for any reason.

And in the case of ties, any abstention would have to be resolved. If 3/5 agree to something, even if one abstains, that other side of the argument would not have a vote to stand on. The odds of 4 abstaining are pretty poor. The purpose of abstaining would be in case a Council members knows that they are going to be gone during the voting period, unable to vote for some other reason, or simply unwilling given the nature of the proposition. Abuse would result in punishment, albeit, a superficial one in the case of a quitter who didn't know what he or she was jumping into.

I digress, the general thing with abstaining was a flavor to the cool-aide, I won't be too upset if people vote it down.

Quote
No. All rulings will be final. I for one am done with endless debates. However, No ties! 5 voters required for all issues brought before the council. If a council member is not available, the drafting of an SL staff member will be called upon to fill the role temporarily.

So the community has no weight in the rulings? I mean, I'm kind of cool with that, but I'm also kind of not cool with that, because I can forsee some Council stacking leading to an egregious decision. And the community won't be able to do a thing about it except MAYBE get an amendment passed that prevents such a ruling from either holding up or happening again (but you know, all people do is bicker so I don't see that happening without a system in place).
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Keito Uzumaki

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 01:18:55 am »

Oh Em Ge!
What if this council had like 0 tailed beasts in it? Like none of all the tailed beasts, ya know. So like it won't be all biased and what not, right? Only former players who've dabbled and dipped in the notorious biju realm and who probably don't even RP anymore, just talk RP-politics all the time. Then they'll have something to talk about that isn't 5+ years in the past. Just sayin.  Otherwise a beast being in the council allows power abuse in tough decisions.
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Eric

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 02:36:36 am »

Oh Em Ge!
What if this council had like 0 tailed beasts in it? Like none of all the tailed beasts, ya know. So like it won't be all biased and what not, right? Only former players who've dabbled and dipped in the notorious biju realm and who probably don't even RP anymore, just talk RP-politics all the time. Then they'll have something to talk about that isn't 5+ years in the past. Just sayin.  Otherwise a beast being in the council allows power abuse in tough decisions.

I don't mean biju popping into the equation like one of the Council Members gets a biju (that's forbidden). I mean if a jinchurikii RPer gets involved the matter could get pretty sticky pretty quickly if it turns into a scuffle.
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Moonfire

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 03:28:54 am »

Right now, we plan that the council will only take action once a rule is broken.

This brings me to another thing, who keeps an eye on our jinchuriki? Who is making sure they actually stick to the rules? If we all turn a blind eye, thinking : "someone gonna tell us if they misbehave"

well..would this be any good i wonder?

The rules, as they are now, are not pretty promising. They are written in a very complex way, it sounds like some rules of a top notch business. Also it says that most is OOC? It kind of makes no sense to me. It is sort of like Bijuu are no part of our Rp and let's be honest...they are part of it...to have a bijuu fight to be ooc is weird... but this is a discussion for later....I mean i may have gotten it wrong?

Which is the actual point here. Misunderstanding the rules. Simplifying them may be in order. Who will be doing this? Also the council? If so, this should be prioity number 1!

Handling the rules!
Then who will make sure these rules are followed? Let's be hoenst we may want someone to do that. If not the council, why not have the Kage do this job? Kage keep an eye on your Jinchuriki? "Bad pet, behave!"

Another thing..people please use words...that some non-fluent in English, person...may know? Simplyfy stuff. It works, ya know?
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 04:25:59 am »

See Eric...the rules were voted on, and not all of the votes went your way.
and it is your failure to let it go, to try and slip loop holes into these council guidelines, that is not going to fly with me at all.

It was voted on that the council members would not go seeking offences of the rules, but rule on what was brought before them. So please stop trying to write guidelines that change the outcome of the initial votes.

Thank you much!

your next point I will respond to is the tie vote issue.

No, it is quite permissable to elect council members to do this job, and have SL staff act as emergency back up. I would prefer to see if they will perform their duty before we throw the council away and just appoint staff to handle this issue.

And does the comunity have weight in the ruling? Well gee Eric...isn't that what we used to do and then it all went into a free for all name calling slander festival? Why bother setting up rules and a council to moderate this volitile issue if we are just going to default back to the mob mentality scenario? I wish to high heaven that it could just be discussed and decided upon, but clearly THAT don't work. Not anymore it doesn't.

Keito: Bijuu hosts/owners/summoners can't be council members, nor can Kage's of villages with a host member, nor the leaders of organization with host members. That was set up to keep it as unbiased as possible. Reading the rules section, the rough draft, might be helpful.

Silver: If no one complains about a host breaking a rule then they just got away with it! woo whooo! We aren't trying to go out and moderate the world and start trouble in RP.  But if someone makes a complaint, the council is there to turn to.

and...I don't know how simple to be to make me understood to ESL[English as a Second Language] people of interest. You are not the only one. Call me out on everything and I will try to explain, but I do not speak trying to sound high and mighty, this is just how I normally talk. I will help out with this the best I can. Just ask what something means and I will explain it all day! and be happy to do so.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2016, 04:42:54 am »

I will, however, try to make a set of rules translation that is worded better? I hope it helps.
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Eric

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2016, 05:20:50 am »

See Eric...the rules were voted on, and not all of the votes went your way.
and it is your failure to let it go, to try and slip loop holes into these council guidelines, that is not going to fly with me at all.

It was voted on that the council members would not go seeking offences of the rules, but rule on what was brought before them. So please stop trying to write guidelines that change the outcome of the initial votes.

Thank you much!


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Bijuu Rules and Guidelines

1] Forum Account Clause:

    A host must have/create an SL forum account.
    Create a thread with the name of his bijuu in the title to the Bijuu Arena board.
    Use this thread for the purpose of stating their preference for battle.
    Keep a list of challengers in this thread.
    Indicate when your grace period will be over, if you are a new host to this bijuu.
    Post any notices of absence to this thread.
    Challengers will also have/create an SL forum account.
    After a host's grace period has been met, a challenger posts/issues a challenge to the host of preference as a reply to the thread of that particular beast for which they are interested in competing.
    After arrangements have been made between the host and challenger, a post to indicate what terms have been accepted will be made to the host's thread.
    Challengers must also post a notice of absence in the thread of the host they are currently combating.

2] Challenging a Host

    You cannot challenge any host until after their 14 day grace period is over.
    You must check forum host preference threads to stay informed.
    You must post to the host's preference thread to make a valid challenge. Notify the host through a pm on SL that you have issued a formal challenge.
    You and the Host have 1 week to set up and begin the match.
    You are bound by the activity rules too. Notify host of inactivity in pm and his preference thread or forum match if applicable. After 14 days in a notified inactivity you will bow out gracefully and may challenge this host for this bijuu again after 3 months.
    You must post to match every 7 days. After 7 days from a non-notified inactivity, you will bow out gracefully and may challenge this host for this bijuu again after 3 months.
    After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for 3 months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.
    OOC matches are 1v1. Preferences can alter this upon agreement of all parties involved.
    You may have more than one OOC match going at the same time.

3] Activity Clause

    Participants must commit to activity.
    Hosts must make an RP post in public once every 14 days while not engaged in an active challenge.
    Hosts who do not make an RP post, while not engaged in an active challenge, once every 14 days will have their bijuu stripped by the council.
    During a match, hosts and challengers must make a post to the RP once every 7 days.
    A Host or Challenger who fails to make a post to the RP match once every 7 days, without posting a notice of absence to the forum host thread in question, will forfeit the match. During this forfeit, the bijuu will either remain with the host, in the event of challenger inactivity, or be transferred to the challenger, in the event of host inactivity.
    Cool down periods are an optional break from back to back fighting in order to permit the host to heal and train with his beast. As such, a cool down period can only be announced after the successful conclusion of a match, and is not intended to serve as a general leave of absence. Should a host opt to take a cool down period, this may last no more than 7 days and must be announced with dates of duration to the host's forum thread for each beast that player may host. A cool down period from one beast a player hosts cannot be applied as a cool down period for all beasts under his control but must be bijuu specific.
    The purpose of making a notification of absence post is to permit life to happen without wrecking your participation in the bijuu activity, while making it clear that there will be punishments for those who abuse this leave of absence, like forfeit of match, loss of biju, and bans pending a review by the council.
    Extenuating circumstances during an active match: Here the activity clause is 7 days, in order to keep the fight moving along to a conclusion. Posting for a leave of absence is essential to holding your slot in the match. Should this not be possible, the council will determine how to handle the situation at the time of your return upon request dependent upon a challenger waiting list, if the beast has already been transferred, or how it impacts current RP. All decisions of the council will be binding.
    Extenuating circumstances during the 'idle phase' of a host: Most events occur so as to permit making a post at some time during your 14 days to alert the community that 'something' is going on. Your leave of absence notice will reset the clock to a 14 day absence max. Should you need more time than that...which adds up to possibly a whole month if your notice occurs on day 14...then you will step down as a host and try again later when your life will permit participation again. You will not be banned from challenging someone for another bijuu. But the SL community will be permitted to move on. The council will handle requests for concessions on a case by case basis and their decision will be binding.


4] Mastering a Biju Clause

    The beast must be completely mastered before the Jinchuriki can access Tailed Beast Mode.
    The Bijuu Bomb can only be used while in Tailed Beast Mode.
    The Bijuu’s passive ability can be accessed immediately upon being sealed with the beast, but the power will be weaker than someone who has mastered the beast. It takes time to master the passive abilities of a bijuu.
    Number of tail manifestations before mastery is achieved--> under discussion.
    Mastery will occur in five stages consisting of 3 weeks each, with a mid rage evolution stage to access partial transformations.
    25% - grants access to C ranked jutsu in the beast's passive ability. The host has access to the Initial Jinchūriki Form.
    50% - grants access to B ranked jutsu in the beast's passive ability. The host has access to the Version 1 Cloak.
    Partial Transformation - Although no additional access to the beast's passive ability have been acquired, control over the transformative stages now includes the finesse to perform partial transformations.
    75% - grants access to A ranked jutsu in the beast's passive ability. The host has access to the Version 2 Cloak.
    100% - grants access to S ranked jutsu in the beast's passive ability. The host has access to Tailed Beast Mode.
    Consequences of going over mastery--> In Discussion

5] Summons Bijū Clause

    Summoning Tattoo: The Summoner will be sealed with a tattoo through which they call forth the bijū for use. This Tattoo counts as a bijū chakra signature which can be detected through the sames means as if the beast were sealed within a host and is subject to the same restrictions against metagaming during a hunting event.
    Chakra Cost: Bijū cost 20% of the user's total (not current) chakra to summon, even in succession.
    Controlling Mechanism: Bijū must be under the influence of genjutsu at all times while used as a summon. Regardless of the genjutsu's potency, it will tax 5% of the summoner's total (not current) chakra while it's actively being used as a summon, the taxation only ceasing when the bijū has been removed from the field. Techniques capable of transferring chakra from the bijū to the summoner are strictly prohibited from being used in this context. Mastery of the beast is not possible considering the hostile relationship between summoner and beast.
    Severing the Summoner's Control: Acceptable means for attempting to sever ties between the Bijū and summoner include dismantling through means of a contract seal via touch attack or dispelling the genjutsu [cost is 20% of your chakra]. For Bijū controlled by means of  Rinnegan users, the chakra rods have to be extracted in addition to dispelling the controlling genjutsu. Success results in a rogue Bijū situation and will yet need to be subdued.
    Restrictions: Summoners are restricted to one action per post, be it offensive or defensive so long as the bijū is summoned.
    There are no prohibitions to enhancing a summons bijuu.
    Drawbacks: Bijū utilized in this manner will always possess a hateful disposition towards their summoner, this is static. Should a chance ever arise and they gain the ability to act of their own volition, they will prioritize slaying their ex-summoner first, regardless of the presence of any other actors.
    Death of Summoner: If the summoner dies while the bijū is unsummoned the challenger/hunter will transfer the summoning tattoo to themselves.  However, if the summoner dies while the bijū is summoned then the challenger/hunter can attempt to capture and subdue it, in the event that the beast has not already been captured prior to the death of the summoner. The rogue summons bijū will be GM'd by the defeated summoner. <--- Under discussion.
    Now, if the summoner is also a host, and dies, the hosted bijū will respawn in 7 days at the location of the host's demise: the bijū will be GM'd by someone of the council's choosing.

6] Judging a Match

    Both parties choose a judge and abide by their decision.
    In the unlikely event of the gross incompetence of the judge, both parties must agree upon a new judge and this second ruling shall be the final word for good or for ill.
    After agreeing upon a judge, if he then gives a ruling that you find to be in error, the participants can agree upon another judge to settle the issue. If a second judge is requested his word will be final. No additional replacements of the judge will be possible and the new judge will be responsible for settling disputes for the remainder of the match.
    No unresolved issues will be tolerated... As such:
    Compromises must be made in the event of a deadlock. Failure to come to terms after every option has been exhausted will result in stripping, challenger denied, and the bijuu handled according to the Stripping Rules. Both challenger and host will be denied access to all things bijuu for 3 months due to gross incompetence.
    Council members are ineligible to be chosen as judges.
    Attempts to commit fraud by providing a judge who is an alt [for your own match] by either party will result in a perma-ban of all things bijuu.
    Judges will acquaint themselves with the rules of all things bijuu, the preference list of the host, the terms agreed upon by the participants, and commit to activity.
    Judges may have to play crowd control in the event of a public verbal abusive fight. In the event of such an issue, the judge should make one post requesting that this behavior cease, to arrange to mediate between the parties in private, and place the match on hold. Should this warning/request be ignored, the judge should refer the matter to a site Mod/staff and not be drawn into participating in such behaviors.

7] General Information

    There is no limit to the number of bijuu one person can own.
    Using Telescope Technique to circumvent the quest of seeking out *any* Jinchuuriki is not permitted.
    The challenger list of the former host/owner is inherited by the new host/owner of a bijuu. You may still take the 14 day grace period before beginning discussions on setting up your first match even though your new bijuu comes with challengers.

I just went through the rules, the rough draft adopted rules, and bolded all of the mentions of the Council that I could find. Interestingly enough, not a single mention of a Council having to be brought the issue directly.

Went through the Council vote threads. Didn't see any official votes there regarding Council members having to wait to be told about the problem in order to do something about it.

So... How am I trying to put in a loophole, exactly? By definition a loophole cannot exist if there is no rule for it to loop around.

 I mean, I would feel far less insulted if you show me where such thing was officially voted on and not merely group nodded on.

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No, it is quite permissable to elect council members to do this job, and have SL staff act as emergency back up. I would prefer to see if they will perform their duty before we throw the council away and just appoint staff to handle this issue.

Throw the council away, no council has even been elected yet! How many staff members even wanted to be involved in this and be eligible?

Quote
And does the comunity have weight in the ruling? Well gee Eric...isn't that what we used to do and then it all went into a free for all name calling slander festival? Why bother setting up rules and a council to moderate this volitile issue if we are just going to default back to the mob mentality scenario? I wish to high heaven that it could just be discussed and decided upon, but clearly THAT don't work. Not anymore it doesn't.

Oh, of course, I was bothered by that because if a single judge can be deemed incompetent, what about an entire Council of 5? Or, you know, biased perhaps? I figured a chance for there to be a check on Council decisions IF and only if there was a tie among them was a good way of giving the community some familiar leverage in matters.

But I'm cool with taking that power away. As long as the community doesn't come whining that they don't have a real say in conflict threads anymore.

Quote
Silver: If no one complains about a host breaking a rule then they just got away with it! woo whooo!

But a Council Member complaining about it is criminal.  :-x It's kind of hard to see what your vision of the Council is here. Fraud is not cool whether the criminal gets caught or not.
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Moonfire

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2016, 12:40:51 pm »

@ Kayenta: Thanks, however i rather had troubles with Eric's English than with yours. I know you for how many years now? You realize i improved 'cause i roleplayed with you, Daichi and many others?

I just need it in a less business sounding English? don't worry i can always do such a thing on my own. I prefer asking for help,also a nice way for learning!

@Eric: Let'S not nitpick too much. I read into this a bit different than you, i suppose.

Also, if you couldn't tell, Kay was a bit cynical. In a harmless way, Calm your horses Eric.

The council is to uphold the rules, but not to moderate everything. Let me ask a thing. Aren'T Staff members and the GM's moderating everything? Or supposed to have at least an eye on it?

As i understand it, it is as following:

Bijuu fight goes out of control -> GM takes a look , trying to solve mess -> notices a rule break -> notifies Council -> Council does final JUDGEMENT!

Bijuu fight -> some onlooker notices something off-> notifies GM or Council.

Although i would prefer if someone took a look every now and then. However we shouldn't drown them out in too strict rules, albeit i fear this may lead to just that.  however, let's take a nother look. I said onlooker right?? why not Gm again? An onlooker, can be ANYONE, this in turn could be a council member. I mean if the fight was stated to happen, wouldn't one be curious? anyone could watch, right? This in turn means that a Roleplayer, a Gm or even a COUNCIL MEMBER may notice.

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I suggest that the Council will be made official on the Rp board as well, therefore have the characters be known. Not every player is using the Forum, is what i suspect. However the main reason for this suggestion is that i didn't see it suggested before, yet.

If it was my apologies.

Furthermore , some Bijuu fights may be in IC, therefore IC council just makes sense? Have a roleplay, have roleplay consequences. If this doesn'T work? Well who is moderating Roleplays? Staff right?

Just some ideas and ps, i am awake now XD
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Eric

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2016, 01:08:13 pm »

@Eric: Let'S not nitpick too much. I read into this a bit different than you, i suppose.

Also, if you couldn't tell, Kay was a bit cynical. In a harmless way, Calm your horses Eric.

It's not mere nitpicking when I am getting called out for doing something that I didn't even do. She may not stand for certain rule additions but I won't stand false accusations against me.

Anyways,

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I just need it in a less business sounding English?

My generally formal type is made worse by the fact that I tend to think about the order of things differently than alot of other people do, and that I have a psuedo-lawyer attitude towards the entire biju matter. It's out of habit, not out of intention for confusing people, that I type the way I do. Not to mention to me this matter is business, not pleasure.

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Furthermore , some Bijuu fights may be in IC, therefore IC council just makes sense?

That would be a brand new construct, I think past biju councils have always made OOC decisions, and didn't hold the titles IC.  I'm kind of curious how that could even work though.

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As i understand it, it is as following:

Bijuu fight goes out of control -> GM takes a look , trying to solve mess -> notices a rule break -> notifies Council -> Council does final JUDGEMENT!

Bijuu fight -> some onlooker notices something off-> notifies GM or Council.

It hasn't been written in the rules, but that's the general thing that Kayenta had in mind. I was more for adding that the Council can directly call out for rule violations because enforcing the rules is about all they are allowed to do in this area.

They can't judge biju fights, they can't hold a biju (so can be neither challenger nor host/summmoner), they can't be a Kage of any sort. As far as biju matters go, the only thing they can do is vote as members for changes and as Council Members enforce the rules. That's it.

A GM taking the place of a Council Member is either a loophole to getting around that (since they're not Council Members they aren't bound by Council Member rules) or would likely conflict with the rules on Council Members (taking the place of a Council Member requires them being able to be a Council Member). Not all of the GM's per say violate the rules, but the chances of that happening are fairly high since GM's tend to be the leader sorts.
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Moonfire

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 01:37:20 pm »

Council IC would be a new construct?

Well, if i may be honest with you? I never heard of a Bijuu council, until just recently. I knew someone was trying to do something, but i never saw much of a result. Bijuu were and still are a mess.

They can, however, create an inpact IC. So why only judge them OOCly? It is ooc who says one gotta even abide by this? Technically ooc, means it doesn't affect your character, so why listen? This in itself is a bit of a loophole, is it not? Same with OOC bijuu fights, but this is again just my way of understanding right there?

We have IC Kage, why not an IC council? This way roleplayer know where to go to. As stated before not everyone is using the forum.

I don't think that it is forbidden for a Council member to read a fight, just cause they want to. If they just so happen to see a violation of rules, then why not bring it up to other council members? Else, it would be like tying our own hands, imagine we do notice a rule is broken, but due the rule we can't react on it, for we need someone else to bring it up to us?

Seriously, may i say that this way of thinking is TOO LINEAR?  Seriously, if you just so happen to notce, then be flexible, bring it up, then it doesn'T matter whether you are council member, roleplayer or GM/ staff!

Eric, you are too strict with the rules.

The rules are not there to imprison our decisions, but to help us guide everyone into fun times. Times with less troubles during roleplays. Freedom withotu rules is chaos, but rules without freedom is suffocating.

We are here to exchange ideas. To make it better for the future, it will of course take time. It will get heated, it will maybe even get ugly. But please, oh pleas.e Let's calm down, sit down and talk in peace and quiet. There is no reason to see anything as accusations, or name callings. I doubt this was the intention. And oh please do NOT proof me wrong. Goes for everyone, especially myself.

Ask Kayenta, i can be stubborn. Hell ask everyone, they will tell you i am stubborn to the boot!

Eric if this matter is too serious, then why not take a breather? this is no business construct, it is meant to become fun. So yeah, take a breaaaath. No one here is about to maul you.

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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2016, 06:10:28 pm »

Certainly people are going to read the fights and keep up to date on current events. We were always pulling up lawn chairs and bags of popcorn on the sidelines in the old days, back when people actually had a sense of humor.

In my way of thinking, I wish to put the bulk of the responsibility on the host/summoner and the challenger. Do we go around and point out flaws in normal rp without being asked too? Why is this any different? I feel it is the responsibility of the participants to be aware of the rules and to bring up issues as they occur, rather than to have a body of people who go around like the watch dog squad calling out each and every offense. This is why I feel that the council should only step in when called for.

A substitute staff member to fill in for a council member who is not doing their job would not suddenly participate in the decision making process with a different set of rules than an actual full time council member. Again, the notion that they would is just further complicating the issue for no good reason other than you can. Certainly if a staff member is a host, that is not someone that would fill in and a different staff member would be chosen.  Or if any conflict of interest exists with that staff member, such as being elected to the Kage office of a village or any other stipulation that violates the qualification rules for serving on the council.

Other people who might call for the council to step in? The challengers who are waiting for their turn, as in the event of a match that is stalled due to both participants being inactive...I am sure there are other instances that would also apply.
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Eric

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Re: Explicit Powers of the Council
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2016, 06:33:34 pm »

Council IC would be a new construct?

Well, if i may be honest with you? I never heard of a Bijuu council, until just recently. I knew someone was trying to do something, but i never saw much of a result. Bijuu were and still are a mess...

It has been forever since the last biju council existed. That's probably why.

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Eric, you are too strict with the rules.

Not being strict enough with the rules allowed people to break the rules with little to no consequence on their part. And that ultimately blew up into an attempt at remaking the rules from scratch. With that background in mind, being less strict with the rules feels like an invitation for a repeat of that entire game.

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The rules are not there to imprison our decisions, but to help us guide everyone into fun times. Times with less troubles during roleplays. Freedom withotu rules is chaos, but rules without freedom is suffocating.

Rules say no to decisions that we want to make, so yes, the rules are there to imprison decision making that goes against said rules. The problem wwith guiding towards fun time is that everyone's idea of fun is a little different.

I didn't find the Serean Event in Konoha all that fun. But, that's almost just me as far as I know, with the exceptions either gone from the site now or inactive. I'm sure the GM and many of the other participants took some enjoyment out of it when Jestar wasn't pointing out how much manipulative bs it was to him and Mini.

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I doubt this was the intention.

I'm not going to get hunkered on that matter, but you can intend all day, but what you write, what you send out to the receiver is what they get. The biju matters seem to scramble something inbetween half the time.

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Eric if this matter is too serious, then why not take a breather...

We've actuallly taken several breathers since the biju rules were published for all to see. I'll bear that in mind though and give it a weekend.


... In my way of thinking, I wish to put the bulk of the responsibility on the host/summoner and the challenger. Do we go around and point out flaws in normal rp without being asked too? Why is this any different...

Do you see a list of rules outlining every hardcore detail about normal RP? No.

Do you see a RP council ever actually being implemented in the history of SL? I don't think you do.

Biju RP/competing has been different from regular RP for a long time now. It is a beast all its own.
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