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Author Topic: Why is immediate corruption being supported?  (Read 451 times)

Bocchiere

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Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« on: June 28, 2016, 07:41:23 pm »

So why are staff members posting warnings for not following rules that don't exist?

If you want to make it a rule that noncouncil members can't post in the deliberation topics or simply make a private area they can't get to than fine.

But the council has no powers currently to restrict who can post in a topic, has no power to just make up rules out of the clear blue like they did with this no posting one, and should not be threatening people with punishments for not following these illegitimate rules.

Is anyone else ok with the council being able to make up whatever rules they like and punish you if you don't, that staff members will apparently support this ability?
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 07:45:19 pm »

I was about to do this as well Bocc. Thank you.

This is at you Kamui. You cannot under any means punish us for posting on the forums in an OPEN section under rules that don't exist. All council incidents need to be transparent and be open to host all those who wish to speak on the matter.

This isn't a dictatorship where the council does whatever they want and think. They still have to listen to the population yet you're trying to remove everyone else.
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Moonfire

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2016, 07:56:59 pm »

Well why do we have a council without set rules yet.

Let me ask you a thing. Do we have a ' be polite to each other ' rule on SL?

Pretty sure that the Forum and Sl are connected and even if not, both should have such a rule.

Disrupting something is generally rude. It shouldn't be stated seperatly, but if you need to do so, then yes.

Also the rules shall be  implemented later. Unless you wish for me to close the thread, halt the discussion due a lack of necesarry rules and thus postpone all Bijuu issues and freeze them until we have all the rules set in stone and thus no corruption can occur any longer?

Also i did state that i do not wish non council members to post in the thread, as to avoid spam fests of others, as well as people disrupting a discussion before it even started.

I did not wish to make you feel trampeled on. I simply wish for a bit of quiet so i can think of a solution with the rest. I am an easily distracted person. ever seen me RP? COme on you know i am easily distracted. If we have to discuss it with everyone , then why not make two threads in the future? One for  the council's discussion , one for onlookers? I dunno, it makes no sense .

Wasn't the council made so that the public would not generate a spamfest again, since having everyne vote on the matter just created issues and looong waiting periods? Or am i wrong?

Or is it that I am part of the council and you can't live with that?

Again i apologize if i came over as tyrannic, rude or whatever. For this was never my intention. I apologize for being unclear, for i realize that my English is lacking.

It is average at best, but please try to understand my point of view as well. We have no rules for this yet. True that. I agree, but like stated before... probably shot the gun already, we have absolutly no council rules yet. Yet we did one ruling, but before it was no big deal. Why? Cause it was in your favor?

But now it is suddnely a big deal cause you were warned by a mod? Or am i seeing this wrong?
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 08:21:08 pm »

Because it's new and needs time to form fully. Like a Pokemon that needs to evolve.

Yes we do, but it's a loose rule.

It's more of a universal known to be nice to each other. The golden rule.

Disrupting a topic post that was about them?

Once again read above ^ About them. Only went off topic cause murmurs of fake rules followed.

You did though. Started to give warnings to people who were posting. You only wanted council input. And maybe a post each from Bocc and Warren.

I already suggested 2 topics. And know I don't know how easily distracted you are. Seems to be a human trait that we all have to some degree.

No the council was made to vote on matters while listening to the community. With the best for the community in their mindset.



Overall my issue is that you're trying to make it where we can't post on topics. Saying we can't try to sway council opinion. How do you think such a system works? They HAVE to listen to the community. They were picked by the community to make decisions with us at the heart of them. Not to tell us we need to not speak or be silenced. The sole reason I was posting was to make sure Warren and Bocc could speak. That topic is about them and you all jumped on them and told them they had no place there. We all have a place there even if we're not part of the council you have to listen to us. Nonetheless there's not rules for this sort of thing.

I'd stop posting when you asked nicely, but will not sit idle while I'm threatened by a mod abusing power.

Also when I say 'you' I mean the council as a whole.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:24:19 pm by Madara (Shadow) »
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Moonfire

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 08:37:10 pm »

Because it's new and needs time to form fully. Like a Pokemon that needs to evolve.

Yes we do, but it's a loose rule.

It's more of a universal known to be nice to each other. The golden rule.

Disrupting a topic post that was about them?

Once again read above ^ About them. Only went off topic cause murmurs of fake rules followed.

You did though. Started to give warnings to people who were posting. You only wanted council input. And maybe a post each from Bocc and Warren.

I already suggested 2 topics. And know I don't know how easily distracted you are. Seems to be a human trait that we all have to some degree.

No the council was made to vote on matters while listening to the community. With the best for the community in their mindset.



Overall my issue is that you're trying to make it where we can't post on topics. Saying we can't try to sway council opinion. How do you think such a system works? They HAVE to listen to the community. They were picked by the community to make decisions with us at the heart of them. Not to tell us we need to not speak or be silenced. The sole reason I was posting was to make sure Warren and Bocc could speak. That topic is about them and you all jumped on them and told them they had no place there. We all have a place there even if we're not part of the council you have to listen to us. Nonetheless there's not rules for this sort of thing.

I'd stop posting when you asked nicely, but will not sit idle while I'm threatened by a mod abusing power.

Also when I say 'you' I mean the council as a whole.

Forgive me, but i suppose we all shot the gun then. I simply copied the first Issue, where as it was stated that the council would be closed to all but council members. I merely gave out warnings, since it did work when bocchiere pestered me through pms. I didn'T save these, hoping that he wouldn't pester me again. Which he doesn't do through Pms. In this area he is actually quite behaving.

I simply proposed to have each say their statement in one post, which should be possible. One post cause i didn't want them to create a spamfest. However it was still a proposal, i was waiting for the other members to decide on this, before allowing action. I am okay with imput, but please in an orderly way. I do agree that for the future, we should handle this delicatly and differently. I shall make notes and for such an issue make two posts in the future. This way we have one clear place and one with open decisions.

We don't even have explicit council powers set. In fact i feel like we need more of these 'failures' to figure it all out. We are all new in this and whilst i like the idea for input of the whole body, it makes me wonder if 7 days will suffice? Perhaps 7 days for opinions and then we find a ruling? I am unsure, truly. Afterall we all live in different time zones. And 14 days sounds long...
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Camel

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2016, 09:01:22 pm »

Here's the thing, no one wants to follow what Moonfire first put out there in there in the original thread. The topic in question was supposed to be for council members only. Shadow implied that he was part of the "pseudo-council" but that doesn't make it right to ignore what Moonfire suggested in her original post.

This was a matter that council was going to resolve on it's own, the topic itself wasn't really going to be a public forum. I can go back and highlight it for you, if it is too hard to miss.

Bocchiere and Warren were told to give a post regarding their opinion about this whole topic, but that quickly escalated from there. (I didn't really mind the previous posts, since they were on topic. It's just not right to continue to ignore an explicit warning by a council member.)

I am not enforcing any "non existent" rules, the same rules on the server still apply on here. I am only suggesting that you *obey* when a staff member warns you against something. Alas, when a staff member does his job. You have those who "cry wolf" and imply that some sort of corruption is afoot.  :roll:

Birds of a feather stay together, I suppose.

Edit:

I went ahead and forwarded this topic to Ace. Just ridiculous that once you are warned by a mod this time around and not by a regular forum member, it triggers you to the point that the staff member must be in the wrong. If a staff member enforcing their power is that much of an issue, I might as well send this link to Neji as well. :oops:
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 09:19:04 pm by Camel »
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2016, 09:27:30 pm »

Edit:

I went ahead and forwarded this topic to Ace. Just ridiculous that once you are warned by a mod this time around and not by a regular forum member, it triggers you to the point that the staff member must be in the wrong. If a staff member enforcing their power is that much of an issue, I might as well send this link to Neji as well. :oops:

I've never really disagreed with you as a staff member until now.


In that post we were on topic the whole time until people started to tell us we couldn't post in it. Which as I've said a few times now I would've stopped if I was asked. However I was then given a warning by Moon and then a 'real' warning by you. Furthermore people were telling Warren and Bocc they could only speak once. Even though it was about them. I'm not for that. They have a right to speak when it involves them and their things.

I respect that Moonfire asked me to stop and will not post in that thread anymore. She took the right route. You however decided to 'enforce' your power.

You have no right to warn me for posting in that thread. There is no grounds for you to enforce your power when we were on topic. Another tick is that you added the 3 strike rule and automatically gave myself, Warren, and Bocc 2 strikes (warren got 1) and why? Because you wanted to. If there was a rule or someplace that told me I couldn't post then I wouldn't have, but there isn't or wasn't. So I posted to defend that Bocc and Warren could speak in that topic.

If you were to enforce a real rule or to enforce one that we did break then sure. However there's no rule being broken. If it was off topic then you could lock it. Never have I seen a mod threaten forum members instead of locking the topic or talking it out first. You went from 1st gear to 5th instead of 2nd.
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I'm going to agree with you on some things and disagree with you on some things.

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Bocchiere

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 09:31:09 pm »

Yeah people are voicing negative opinions about the staff. In public no less. Better break out the riot gear.
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Camel

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 09:57:12 pm »

Quote
I respect that Moonfire asked me to stop and will not post in that thread anymore. She took the right route. You however decided to 'enforce' your power.

If you respected the suggestion from a regular forum member then why is hard to respect those who are staff and tell you to stop doing something that is disrupting the topic at hand. Is it really that hard? (Example: If you were told to stop spamming and you continue to spam despite being warned by a staff member, what do you think would be done? A slap on the wrist?)

Quote
You have no right to warn me for posting in that thread.

When someone fails to ignore the warnings from a regular member, I have to step in team member of the staff and suggest that you refrain from doing something that could to more unsavory situations. Eric, a forum moderator even said that the only thing that could be done was post warnings and contact Ace about the issue.

Your infractions remain because despite the best wishes of a council member, the ranting continue to ensue. This made it very suspicious and even a council member felt that you two were trying to influence the council to make a choice that would undoubtly benefit Bocchiere. (Kirigakure had this issue before of defending a bijuu, but that matter got quickly resolved thanks to me stepping up to the plate and keeping the cycle going.) 

Quote
ah people are voicing negative opinions about the staff. In public no less. Better break out the riot gear.

I actually hold negative opinions to a grain of salt, depending on the person it is coming from. How can you expect to believe someone's opinion when they have a negative history behind them? From a personal experience and simple observation, I noticed that these 'staff vendettas' are usually on a personal level. It's hate, hate and more hate. This why we can't nice things these days. :oops:
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:07:03 pm by Camel »
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Bocchiere

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 10:49:22 pm »

my opinions of Kamui as a person have nothing to do with this, the actions of the council were indicative of corruption and the actions of Kamui in supporting them were wrong. that is my opinion of the situation.
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Trev

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Re: Why is immediate corruption being supported?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 02:06:29 am »

Only council members should be allowed to post in their topics. Else it just turns into a giant shouting match like everything else. Council was elected to perform a duty, if you don't have faith in them to discuss among themselves, don't participate in anything biju related. We don't need council threads getting opinions from the peanut gallery and have any unnecessary post.

If the council wants to allow one post from each side involved, fair enough to them. Or if they want to invite public discussion, once again on them. As I see it, their threads should be view able to us, but we should not be allowed to comment. Else there is no point in having one remotely. Obviously if something is very wrong with a decision, you should be allowed to make a thread to discuss it with other site members, but not directly interject yourself in their thread unless asked.

Also if your issue is with Kamui as mod, take it up with Neji. This is a dictatorship, run by Neji. And one of his enforcers is Kamui. He deemed it fit to make him a mod, he can do whatever he damn well pleases, fair or not. You have no rights here. If you have a problem take it to the big man himself, as he is the only one who could possibly stop it. And if he doesn't, or doesn't issue a warning to Kamui, it means he didn't care or saw you in the wrong.

Also, publicly bashing a mod on most forums gets you banned or account suspended, I don't know if you're new to forums.

That said, I don't believe Kamui should have started taking shots against you, for a largely unstated rule. However, some of you kept posting when asked to stopped and are further antagonizing it. You have no rights here, you can be banned at any mods discretion, if they so choose. Close this thread, be smart, and take it up with the site owner, or higher tier mod if applicable if you're so mad. This isn't a decision for the community. If you're just looking to talk about it with no results, move it to spam. 
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