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[KayentaMoenkopi]

Is it true that man has yet to create the perfect isolated system so that when work is done energy is lost through conversion into one thing or another?

[Vail]

Yes. If a machine's purpose for example is to produce electricity, some of the energy that could go toward producing electricity is likely to be lost as heat. That's where efficiency comes in. The less heat this machine gives off in exchange for more power, the greater its efficiency.

The only perfectly isolated system that I know of is the universe itself.

[Ѕhadow]

Didn't read anyone's post cause I'm too lazy so w/e

I always took that the chakra pathway system was physical in the sense that it has to run along, say, the nervous system. It follows it throughout the body and the heart produces chakra it seems?

[Bocchiere]

Didn't read anyone's post cause I'm too lazy so w/e

I always took that the chakra pathway system was physical in the sense that it has to run along, say, the nervous system. It follows it throughout the body and the heart produces chakra it seems?

Man it's almost like that by ignoring all the previous discussion your post really doesn't provide anything of substance to the discussion.

[Eric]

.. Rasenshuriken is not a physical attack it is a chakra based attack...

A chakra based attack that does physical damage. If the system was completely unhealable then when Naruto damaged his the first time it would have been permanent. But it wasn't; only repeated minor damage or massive damage leads to permanent disrepair.

I don't believe it's ever been stated that your chakra just clouds around your body, for instance, so it would not be a good thing to assume just because of how something was animated.

There's just so many times it could have come up if it was physical and did not. When Lee had his surgery after the Konoha Crush it was problematic because fragments of bone were lodged in his spine. Extracting them from his spine was the problem, not the chakra system that is supposed to be tied to every cell of your body.

Again how did Hagoromo giving people chakra work if it requires a physical structure for transport? Did every living creature just instantly grow one? That's a little much even for Naruto.

To my  knowledge, when the sharingan vision was being shown even in the manga chakra was shown around the body at least like an aura.

Lee is not chakra obligate for his style of fighting, or at least he wasn't when that arc was up and active. Him not being able to manipulate chakra paled in comparison to outright death.

I wasn't going to jump in on this discussion because it doesn't really interest me, but you've butchered some concepts in your post so I felt compelled to do so.

1) ATP is the molecular unit of intracellular energy transfer. It's not directly converted to heat. Heat is the transfer of energy from a hotter object to a colder object.

2) You said, "energy is neither destroyed nor created". That's incorrect. The First Law of Thermodynamics dictates that energy is neither created nor destroyed, but simply changes form. The Law of Conservation of Energy dictates that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant.

3) Absorbing heat is not similar to "absorbing" ATP (cells don't absorb ATP, that would be a gross oversimplification). When heat is absorbed by an object, the velocity of that object's molecules increases, thus increasing the temperature--temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the molecules in an object.

(1) Fair enough.

(2) Why does the specific order of the words matter in this context?

(3) A gross oversimplification was the intent here. Chaka is a combination of spiritual and physical energies; what kind of energy they fit into when applying concepts from Physics, I feel, is overcomplicating things when the point is that energy is converted into different forms that may be more viable for absorption by external techniques.

[Bocchiere]

It seems like you're just making assumptions.

When did it say the damage to his chakra system healed? From what I'm reading it never did it just seems likely that the damage from using it one time was not significant enough to hinder him, but enough for Tsunade to notice what had happened. I don't know because it never goes into specifics. Note how I'm just offering a logical opinion on something I can't back up with evidence rather than just staring it as fact.

I'm aware, and I'm saying you should not infer mechanics about something solely from how they choose to visually represent something.

[Vail]

.. Rasenshuriken is not a physical attack it is a chakra based attack...

A chakra based attack that does physical damage. If the system was completely unhealable then when Naruto damaged his the first time it would have been permanent. But it wasn't; only repeated minor damage or massive damage leads to permanent disrepair.

I don't believe it's ever been stated that your chakra just clouds around your body, for instance, so it would not be a good thing to assume just because of how something was animated.

There's just so many times it could have come up if it was physical and did not. When Lee had his surgery after the Konoha Crush it was problematic because fragments of bone were lodged in his spine. Extracting them from his spine was the problem, not the chakra system that is supposed to be tied to every cell of your body.

Again how did Hagoromo giving people chakra work if it requires a physical structure for transport? Did every living creature just instantly grow one? That's a little much even for Naruto.

To my  knowledge, when the sharingan vision was being shown even in the manga chakra was shown around the body at least like an aura.

Lee is not chakra obligate for his style of fighting, or at least he wasn't when that arc was up and active. Him not being able to manipulate chakra paled in comparison to outright death.

I wasn't going to jump in on this discussion because it doesn't really interest me, but you've butchered some concepts in your post so I felt compelled to do so.

1) ATP is the molecular unit of intracellular energy transfer. It's not directly converted to heat. Heat is the transfer of energy from a hotter object to a colder object.

2) You said, "energy is neither destroyed nor created". That's incorrect. The First Law of Thermodynamics dictates that energy is neither created nor destroyed, but simply changes form. The Law of Conservation of Energy dictates that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant.

3) Absorbing heat is not similar to "absorbing" ATP (cells don't absorb ATP, that would be a gross oversimplification). When heat is absorbed by an object, the velocity of that object's molecules increases, thus increasing the temperature--temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the molecules in an object.

(1) Fair enough.

(2) Why does the specific order of the words matter in this context?

(3) A gross oversimplification was the intent here. Chaka is a combination of spiritual and physical energies; what kind of energy they fit into when applying concepts from Physics, I feel, is overcomplicating things when the point is that energy is converted into different forms that may be more viable for absorption by external techniques.

The order of the words doesn't matter. He said energy can't be created nor CONSERVED. Energy is always conserved, lol. I realized I made a mistake in my original post. I meant to say, "You said energy is neither destroyed nor conserved."

[Eric]

The order of the words doesn't matter. He said energy can't be created nor CONSERVED. Energy is always conserved, lol. I realized I made a mistake in my original post. I meant to say, "You said energy is neither destroyed nor conserved."

Going back, I see that you are right; looks like we both typoed, only mine was far worse. 

It seems like you're just making assumptions.

When did it say the damage to his chakra system healed? From what I'm reading it never did it just seems likely that the damage from using it one time was not significant enough to hinder him, but enough for Tsunade to notice what had happened. I don't know because it never goes into specifics. Note how I'm just offering a logical opinion on something I can't back up with evidence rather than just staring it as fact.

I'm aware, and I'm saying you should not infer mechanics about something solely from how they choose to visually represent something.

Maybe, though none of that suggests to me that the chakra network pathway is not a physical entity.

[Bocchiere]

Other than the fact that it being physical makes no sense? But when has that stopped anyone.

Ok so Hagoromo gifted everyone chakra and also forced every living creature on the planet to instantly evolve to have a chakra system as well. We know it has its own unique system because if it just moves along your already present vascular system or nervous system than the statement that the chakra network cannot be repaired by medical ninjutsu is false.

That also means that the chakra network is something in your body that is physically similar to the vascular system but cannot be repaired by chakra for no reason. Are those veins made of the same material as chakra disruption blades?

And apparently Shikotsumyaku users have non-chakra based high speed regeneration since if the chakra system is physical they would destroy it every time they used their abilities.

[GooshGoosh]

I consider the chakra system to be ethereal opposed to physical. The only canon instances I can think of where the chakra system was affected were in situations where it was chakra damaging it. Like Naruto's Rasenshuriken and the gentle fist. Are there any situations where Taijutsu/Kenjutsu caused that kind of damage? If not then it's pretty clear that the system is not literally physical.

And Bocc is right to question the validity of the SO6P simply willing a chakra pathway system into people's bodies. Unless of course he quite literally manipulated the worlds evolutionary timeline, and this new addition to our bodies is caused by evolution. It would kinda explain why there are people who have and don't have full control over their chakra, resulting in Rock Lees' and ordinary humans. They were just unlucky enough that their new evolutionary trait is underdeveloped, because evolution takes a considerable amount of time to mature...I guess. That's a stretch though, I would just stick with it being an ethereal thing that can't be manipulated under normal circumstances.   

[Becquerel]

I want to say that I remember senbon being used to disable chakra points at one time, but it might have just been pressure points. I don't really remember lol

But I don't see what's so far-fetched about Hagoromo giving everyone a physical chakra system considering this is a world where a tree created a fruit that had limitless power exists, as well as aliens from the moon, also an alien rabbit that can hop between dimensions, and a man can vomit out snakes while also shedding his skin. What's wrong with just having suspension of disbelief?

And there's nothing wrong with making chakra a kind ethereal/magical presence. It doesn't really make much sense otherwise. Otherwise, 'enhancing with chakra' shouldn't really do anything.

[Bocchiere]

because when people want you to suspend your disbelief about the nonsensical way they are killing your character it becomes a problem. That's why I make these topics.

[Becquerel]

And since the series states that chakra coils are a legitimate thing, then there really shouldn't be any question as to whether or not they're physical. I just figure that they're so, so tiny. Kind of like what's stated in this page.



There's also this one.



So, I don't really see the problem with saying that it's physical, it's just chakra itself that's ethereal...But I also have to agree with the whole statement that the author probably just forgot over time.

::::EDIT::::
This also makes Jiongu and Orochimaru's stretchiness confusing. So when Kakuzu 'eats' a heart, does this mean that his chakra network just creates new connections? Or when he whips out his cords, does the chakra network stretch or rapidly grow to accommodate it? It's all just very confusing. At those points, I think it is good to just go with the whole 'ninja magic' idea to make sense of it lol

[Bocchiere]

That's what I said before everything you just said doesn't say that it isn't ethereal, you're just interpreting it one way. If you assume the system is ethereal everything you just cited is still accurate.

[Becquerel]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying though. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your understanding of what I'm saying lol

Regardless.
Chakra system = Physical system like vascular system.
Chakra = Ethereal force that's like a life energy, unlike blood.

I hope that made my standing on the subject clear