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Author Topic: Limiting village defenses.  (Read 4180 times)

Rusaku

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Limiting village defenses.
« on: October 23, 2016, 05:42:24 AM »

I would like to discuss perhaps limiting the defences a village can have at any given point. It had been brought up before in other threads, and I believe that we need to have an entire thread dedicated to this and this alone.

Some of the village defences are as such:

"A seal used in conjunction with the Mondai no Konran and overlapping this defense is one of the prides of the hidden cloud village. Utilizing the constantly increased ionized air constantly over the village, this seal allows natural lightning to rain down on anything and anybody within the range of the barrier seal. Able to call down near limitless lightning strikes, such a dangerous and powerful seal can only be used by the Raikage's. Enemies are targeted and identified through use of the Mondai no Konran it's connected to." - Kumogakure

"A massive dome shaped seal placed around a certain area. This particular seal is placed around the entire village of Kumo and encompasses everything within. It begins at the center of the village and stretches out three quarters of a mile from the outside of the village in a perfect circle going beneath the ground and into the sky as well. The purpose of the jutsu is it marks everything and everybody within it’s boundaries and anything coming into contact with reducing the effectiveness of their chakra based abilities. It produces a toll of multiplying chakra drain of techniques three times while decreasing effectiveness of chakra based abilities by half. This also includes chakra based attacks made from outside the range of the barrier coming into contact with said barrier seal. This defense is a permanent seal on the land area itself and is only subject to collapse should the Raikage will it. This also serves to further train Kumo shinobi. With such a constant draw on their chakra levels for a prolonged period of time when not under the effects of the barrier they are endowed with unnaturally high chakra levels when compared to other nations." - Kumogakure

"A barrier empowered by a crystal located within the depths of the Hokage Residence, its circumference encircles the village's walls, two-meters away from them. The barrier works in two ways.First it has a "passive" effect which is active at all times and absorbs any attack that uses chakra and makes contact with it from the outside.Second it has an "active" effect which absorbs all the ninjutsu attacks from inside,but it may only be activated by someone possessing the Preta Path and who knows of the technique-specific hand seal." -Konohagakure

“The entire area of the forest up to the gates is constantly blanketed in a thick white mist, a variation of a secret jutsu passed down between Kirigakure elites. Passing through this mist will quickly eat up any chakra that is not similar to that of the Ichiban Yonnin.
The mist also extends into the village, yet is weaker than the mist outside. It also does not affect certain individuals as they cast and/or maintained the mist itself. They are Isaribi, Gitsune, Mioku, Eiko, Dāto, and Xiarawst. Those who are responsible for upkeep are Silence and Saino.” -Kirigakure


These are the only defences I can find in the main villages that I think are crazy, but I’m sure there are more if we decide to delve deeper into it.

The reason I bring this up is simple. It ruins most villains opportunities to attack a village. Yes, I am incredibly aware that villages are not supposed to be easy to attack, but that does not mean it gives the people living within the right to completely stifle the a villain's right to attempt an attack on that village. It’s unsportsmanlike.

What few seem to realize is that even without defences, villages are very difficult to attack. There are usually 4 or 5 individuals who will participate in the defence of any given village. 4 or 5 competent fighters should be more than able to repel an attack considering they would have the home field advantage. Not only that, but most if not all village attacks end up being voided anyway, so why even have the defences if your just going to ignore the people attacking anyway?

My suggestion is that we limit each village to two defensive measures. One that represents the village as a whole. Much like Konoha’s forest, Kiri’s mist, or Suna’s deserts and one that is generic and used between most villages. They can make one, REASONABLE defence that involves their geographical environment, and one other defence of their choice. Considering almost all villages have a “No auto enter” rule, I don’t much see the point of anti-space time barriers. Though I will stick to the idea that those barriers are the dumbest thing to ever come from this game.

Villain characters are still players of this game who are wanting to have a good time. It’s very difficult for them to enjoy being villains when there are no villages to attack, and no one ever leaves those villages for them to try and ambush. We need to stop catering to the good guys who hide behind their walls like cattle, and start making it so everyone gets a chance to do what they want without having to leap through a million flaming hoops to do it. 

If anyone has better options to nerf villages, then please post and start a dialogue. Or if people from these villages can try to justify why these defenses are not stupid, then please elaborate.
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Eric

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2016, 07:04:12 AM »

Reincarnate Bocchiere and go to town on pretty much anybody but Kirigakure and you actually would have a good chance of not getting voided.  :twisted:

I joke.

I think the time to consider limiting village defenses will come when there is a reason to other than 'villains wanna have fun too'. Nothing fun about getting wrecked, and especially nothing fun about having to always be at war (cite Suna 2012 was it? Or 2013? I forget which year they had it rough).

Good guys is definitely a matter of perspective. Yumei was the Hokage till he went crazy, Rares was hardly the embodiment of narutoverse "good", and even Kayenta has been well known to put metal between ribs without launching a single jutsu at a village.

I mean, who are the good guys again?  :?:

If village battles get voided anyways, then why bother lowering the barriers in return? No need to encourage an incident right? And a whole lot of good defenses are when GM'd events pretty much sweep them under an imaginary rug for the duration of the Event, be that good or bad take your own pick.

No lie, SL can be extremely boring for someone itching for another ninja war (been in that state of boredom before) but I honestly am not sure if another ninja war is even feasible considering the state of large IC battles between different RPing parties, and the difficulty in setting a war objective. It's not like "get the biju" is exactly high on the list since it is 50x easier to just challenge the host to an OOC battle and get it over with. Jutsu is hardly worth fighting a war over, to my understanding, and extermination ventures only encourage higher effeciency turtling.

This topic has been talked about before (I should have started with this):

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8447.msg221135.html#msg221135 (Amegakure's old super defenses)

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,7309.0.html (Most relevent discussion on these defenses)

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,7846.135.html (Rather than deal with village barriers, the jinchs were required to leave the villages in order to make things fairer).

The issue has been talked about in one form or another many times. I"m not really sure how to get a different result out of this one to be hoenst.
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Becquerel

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2016, 01:59:02 PM »

There's a reason why Otogakure is feared and known as one of the most powerful villages. It's because of our state of the art village defense system.


But I also agree with the fact that many villages are overpowered when it comes to passive defense. I think one of the best systems to have in place directly require the players activity. Either have people do gate duty or assign people to RP as NPCs (ANBU/police/whatever). That way you can allow people proper entry to a village while also promoting RP.

But what if they don't want to use the gates? Let them. If they want to sneak into the village, by all means let them. Maybe they're just a new player who doesn't know about that stuff. Or maybe they're gonna start some trouble...Either way, react accordingly. Make clans useful and appoint certain people within the village clan (or just village) to take care of those jobs.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2016, 02:42:04 PM »

I was able to get into Kiri and Pain style Shinra Tensei part of the village away without it being voided. >>

Just go about it in a smart matter. The problem here isn't people hate war and fighting. People hate having their character being subjected to dying.

Take away the possibility of IC death and only NPC death/IC injuries then guess what? A lot more village attacks would happen.
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Eric

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2016, 06:06:52 PM »

I was able to get into Kiri and Pain style Shinra Tensei part of the village away without it being voided. >>

Just go about it in a smart matter. The problem here isn't people hate war and fighting. People hate having their character being subjected to dying.

Take away the possibility of IC death and only NPC death/IC injuries then guess what? A lot more village attacks would happen.

Doesn't that kind of cheapen the battle though if all of the players know that they can't be killed regardless of the moves employed and mistakes made?
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Becquerel

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2016, 07:09:21 PM »

No. Just get rid of character-controlling after death. Meaning, if you kill someone or someone kills you, they can't turn you into an Edo puppet. After some time, a recovery process, or RP to revive them or something, they can come back. Permadeath does not belong in a game like this.
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Rusaku

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2016, 07:53:02 PM »

I have been pondering the idea of taking away IC death just because of how few people actually play this game anymore. I know we still have quite a few as of right now, but that number is getting smaller and smaller as time goes on. Why would you want to straight up kill the only people left on this site? All that does in the long run is make people want to leave. I could agree with a respawn time or something so long as it isn't outrageous. 

Edo tensei was a huge plot point of Naruto for literally years. I understand that being character controlled after death is upsetting, but it's like trying to remove tailed beasts. You're trying to remove the meat of Naruto's plot and leave us with just the condiments. Though I will admit Edo tensei is a lot less popular now than it was a few years back. We could employ a rule or something that allows people with Edo to still use their zombies, but not inhibit those reincarnated from coming back somehow. I know it sounds kinda far fetched, but that's probably how we are going to get both parties to be happy.

I was able to get into Kiri and Pain style Shinra Tensei part of the village away without it being voided. >>

Just go about it in a smart matter. The problem here isn't people hate war and fighting. People hate having their character being subjected to dying.

Take away the possibility of IC death and only NPC death/IC injuries then guess what? A lot more village attacks would happen.


Well there's the thing, I think people also have significant bias when it comes to certain players. For example: Me and Bocc, before we hated each other, went to Kiri to try and get the swords. They voided us for just walking in incorrectly. That's it. They didn't like that we Kamui'ed in on the edge of their space time barrier then proceeded on foot from that point. They had us wait literally weeks for a response (Despite the village being in active RP) and when they finally did response after Bocc pressed in the thumb nails, they voided us for that.

Maybe instead of limiting village defenses, we can remove the players ability to simply void anything they don't like.
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Genesis

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 08:42:36 PM »

I thought the greatest defense was voiding? /s
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JayJay

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 10:38:15 PM »

There's a reason why Otogakure is feared and known as one of the most powerful villages. It's because of our state of the art village defense system.


But I also agree with the fact that many villages are overpowered when it comes to passive defense. I think one of the best systems to have in place directly require the players activity. Either have people do gate duty or assign people to RP as NPCs (ANBU/police/whatever). That way you can allow people proper entry to a village while also promoting RP.

But what if they don't want to use the gates? Let them. If they want to sneak into the village, by all means let them. Maybe they're just a new player who doesn't know about that stuff. Or maybe they're gonna start some trouble...Either way, react accordingly. Make clans useful and appoint certain people within the village clan (or just village) to take care of those jobs.

If anyone attacks Oto, they're gonna have a bad time. Those defenses are just crazy!! I wanna RP myself getting tangled in that just for the lulz.

Quote from: Rusaku
The reason I bring this up is simple. It ruins most villains opportunities to attack a village. Yes, I am incredibly aware that villages are not supposed to be easy to attack, but that does not mean it gives the people living within the right to completely stifle the a villain's right to attempt an attack on that village. It’s unsportsmanlike.

It ain't fun, if the villains can't have non, lol.
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UettoSenju

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 06:23:29 AM »

I'm not sure if we even use that barrier in Konoha anymore. It was more of a Yumei thing I thought. But I could be wrong.

I'm certain Kite, our own Kage, can't use it though and our number of Rinnegan users who could is far less then it use to be.

Regardless I'll bring it up in our clans SCR to be talked over. I myself would see it as a problem to do away with.

We do have other stuff in play. Or at least I do. You want find them on some wiki though as I hate that place. Mainly just the Konoha forest though.

The SGT is gone now so it isn't there anymore. One reason I moved it was so it couldn't always be depended on to do the dirty work of defense.

I do believe we still use the sensory barrier though along with our NPC guards, cameras systems, and such. Mainly the Patrol Guard aspect that where put into place back when I led that division.
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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 02:02:19 AM »

I'm going to address this in kind of an informal matter so hopefully I'm not crucified for it.

First off, I think it would be a cool concept to throw Biju in the mix of this topic. What I mean by this is that a villages defenses would scale with the amount of Biju they laid claim to. Now before I'm shot down, just hear me out because it's just a casual little idea that came to mind.

If villages were given a base of 2 village defenses (As the maker of this thread described) and +1 for each Biju claimed by said region, it would give Villages more reason to pursue Biju; in turn this would promote activity. Also, I really like the thought of the parallel between villages fighting for power through hunting Biju on SL as they did, at one point, in the series. It would also seem that this would help mend the issue of villages claiming gross amounts of defenses.

Now, I realize there may be flaws in this idea that I'm not thinking of at the moment. However, to that I would just say that it's of course free to be criticized, constructively or otherwise.
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Rusaku

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2016, 02:46:50 AM »

I'm going to address this in kind of an informal matter so hopefully I'm not crucified for it.

First off, I think it would be a cool concept to throw Biju in the mix of this topic. What I mean by this is that a villages defenses would scale with the amount of Biju they laid claim to. Now before I'm shot down, just hear me out because it's just a casual little idea that came to mind.

If villages were given a base of 2 village defenses (As the maker of this thread described) and +1 for each Biju claimed by said region, it would give Villages more reason to pursue Biju; in turn this would promote activity. Also, I really like the thought of the parallel between villages fighting for power through hunting Biju on SL as they did, at one point, in the series. It would also seem that this would help mend the issue of villages claiming gross amounts of defenses.

Now, I realize there may be flaws in this idea that I'm not thinking of at the moment. However, to that I would just say that it's of course free to be criticized, constructively or otherwise.

I like this idea, but I can be ruled as Bias considering Uzushiogakure is my home, and we have an overwhelming majority of the beasts. Second only to Oto, who is trailing behind 7-2. So obviously my opinion is lessened with this idea, so others would have to throw in their two cents.
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Becquerel

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2016, 03:13:33 AM »

Personally, I don't think this would be very good because bijuu are a fluid commodity. For example, let's say that Kiri has three bijuu. This gives them an electric fence, a moat, and an angry guy who throws rocks. All of a sudden, they lose two bijuu from some OOC event on the forums. Does that mean that, for no good reason at all, the fence loses its power and the angry guy breaks his arm?
Not only that, but it would mean that as villages get more power (via bijuu) they also get more impenetrable.
I'm more in favor of either setting a max number of village defenses or make defenses maintainable. Meaning if Rusaku and Becquerel each create some kind of village defense system (lets say a space time barrier and catapult) for a village, they both have to be there to use it or someone has to maintain it if it's physical. Meaning that Rusaku would have to be an active poster for the barrier to be in effect instead of posting that he put the barrier there 6 years ago and has been inactive since...And that Becquerel could man the catapult for it to work properly, or just anyone could be manning it so long as it's actually manned.
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Hazama

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2016, 04:59:20 AM »

Personally, I don't think this would be very good because bijuu are a fluid commodity. For example, let's say that Kiri has three bijuu. This gives them an electric fence, a moat, and an angry guy who throws rocks. All of a sudden, they lose two bijuu from some OOC event on the forums. Does that mean that, for no good reason at all, the fence loses its power and the angry guy breaks his arm?
Not only that, but it would mean that as villages get more power (via bijuu) they also get more impenetrable.
I'm more in favor of either setting a max number of village defenses or make defenses maintainable. Meaning if Rusaku and Becquerel each create some kind of village defense system (lets say a space time barrier and catapult) for a village, they both have to be there to use it or someone has to maintain it if it's physical. Meaning that Rusaku would have to be an active poster for the barrier to be in effect instead of posting that he put the barrier there 6 years ago and has been inactive since...And that Becquerel could man the catapult for it to work properly, or just anyone could be manning it so long as it's actually manned.

I like where you are heading with this idea, Bec. It would also let villages incorporate a steady flow of RP, if they wish for their barriers/defenses to be active o.o I like it.
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Rusaku

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Re: Limiting village defenses.
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2016, 11:59:33 PM »

Personally, I don't think this would be very good because bijuu are a fluid commodity. For example, let's say that Kiri has three bijuu. This gives them an electric fence, a moat, and an angry guy who throws rocks. All of a sudden, they lose two bijuu from some OOC event on the forums. Does that mean that, for no good reason at all, the fence loses its power and the angry guy breaks his arm?
Not only that, but it would mean that as villages get more power (via bijuu) they also get more impenetrable.
I'm more in favor of either setting a max number of village defenses or make defenses maintainable. Meaning if Rusaku and Becquerel each create some kind of village defense system (lets say a space time barrier and catapult) for a village, they both have to be there to use it or someone has to maintain it if it's physical. Meaning that Rusaku would have to be an active poster for the barrier to be in effect instead of posting that he put the barrier there 6 years ago and has been inactive since...And that Becquerel could man the catapult for it to work properly, or just anyone could be manning it so long as it's actually manned.
I could dig that. Should the village defenses demand the full allowance of actions a character has, or should it only require one? Like the Individual maintaining the defense can continue to participate in the event, but only has two actions opposed to 3. Or they are required to dedicate their entire character to maintaining that defense.

I like the latter, considering it can be a double edged sword. Sure you can maintain a powerful barrier, but the versatility of your character might be more useful than the static ability of that defense. So you need to pick between the defense and fighting head on.
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