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Author Topic: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]  (Read 1246 times)

Ѕhadow

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2016, 11:46:53 pm »

What if we turned bloodlines into races like they have on DnD? Of course this would take numerous hours to work out, but in the end it would be a better system. That's if the willpower is there and people want to help propel this forward.
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Becquerel

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2016, 11:55:11 pm »

I was thinking about that, but what about people who are half and half? Also, I added a few more things to my talents section because there's some stuff that wasn't included that's in Naruto (like shuriken and staffs). I think what we should also do is have one big template that we can each work on. Every time someone thinks of something to add, you can color-code what you added so people could see what they think. Have one topic dedicated to just that and over here you can post why you did what you did.

Like,
Quote
Added staff use and shuriken use to talents. Maybe shuriken can use ranged+dex and staff use dex+finesse?
Just an idea.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2016, 12:09:07 am »

Like,
Quote
Added staff use and shuriken use to talents. Maybe shuriken can use ranged+dex and staff use dex+finesse?
Just an idea.

Gonna nitpick a bit here cause it intertwines a bit.

You have no marks (x's) in your ranged skill section. Yet you have Shurikenjutsu [thrown weapons] in your merits section.

If your ranged skill is 0 then the way this systems works (as I understand it) then logically you shouldn't have any merit in throwing shuriken as they fall under ranged weapons skill overall.

If you had one mark in ranged then maybe. This system is still being worked out though so I can't say.
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Becquerel

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2016, 12:13:51 am »

Thanks for catching that lol Yeah, I'm trying to figure things out as well. I couldn't really think of what to put for techniques since Bec doesn't have chakra or use jutsu. Thankfully this is a work in progress for all of us
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2016, 12:19:11 am »

technically you can use abilities without being trained, but you do so with a die penalty of -1 for physical and social and -3 for mental skills.

there are somethings you can figure out and bluff your way through, but mostly you either know something or you do not.

so if a character without medical skill were to try to set a broken leg...unless they had really high intelligence, they probably would not get any die to roll at all.
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Becquerel

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2016, 12:21:49 am »

Oh, and I just re-looked at it. My character has no ranged but +3 throwing. I figured ranged would be things like bow and distance jutsu while throwing is stuff related to actually heaving a weapon/object.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2016, 12:24:25 am »

What if we turned bloodlines into races like they have on DnD? Of course this would take numerous hours to work out, but in the end it would be a better system. That's if the willpower is there and people want to help propel this forward.

me editing skills are very slow. take a look at the template now and see if it makes more sense to you now with respect to bloodlines. Then we can discuss about adding in races or not. I could go either way. but with races you get major balance issues in the attribute section. It we are all...'humanish' ninja/robots/what have you...at least no one is going to be having more strength, intelligence, dexterity...base attributes...than what is available to every race.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2016, 12:30:43 am »

What if we turned bloodlines into races like they have on DnD? Of course this would take numerous hours to work out, but in the end it would be a better system. That's if the willpower is there and people want to help propel this forward.

me editing skills are very slow. take a look at the template now and see if it makes more sense to you now with respect to bloodlines. Then we can discuss about adding in races or not. I could go either way. but with races you get major balance issues in the attribute section. It we are all...'humanish' ninja/robots/what have you...at least no one is going to be having more strength, intelligence, dexterity...base attributes...than what is available to every race.

I still don't get the whole merit section you're trying to change to.



Well each race has their own strengths and their own weaknesses. If Humans are more dexterous than bear people that only makes sense. But in return bear people will be stronger than humans. It's like the races on SL per village. One race is going to be stronger/faster/smarter than the other and vice versa.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2016, 12:33:14 am »

I added a link to merit listing on the handbook first post. there are just too many for me to type all out.

A person can claim a merit and then just ask about it in his own personal character thread to see if it is acceptable.
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Becquerel

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2016, 01:26:45 am »

Well each race has their own strengths and their own weaknesses. If Humans are more dexterous than bear people that only makes sense. But in return bear people will be stronger than humans. It's like the races on SL per village. One race is going to be stronger/faster/smarter than the other and vice versa.

Not necessarily. Sure, Uchiha happen to be better at throwing shuriken than most, but with training anyone could be just as good. Maybe it just means that you'll learn them faster? Like, for every two points you put into Uchiha you could get +1 in shuriken and +1 in dexterity?
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2016, 01:39:57 am »

Well each race has their own strengths and their own weaknesses. If Humans are more dexterous than bear people that only makes sense. But in return bear people will be stronger than humans. It's like the races on SL per village. One race is going to be stronger/faster/smarter than the other and vice versa.

Not necessarily. Sure, Uchiha happen to be better at throwing shuriken than most, but with training anyone could be just as good. Maybe it just means that you'll learn them faster? Like, for every two points you put into Uchiha you could get +1 in shuriken and +1 in dexterity?

Exactly. Any race can achieve the same level of expertise in any given thing, but dependent on the race you chose it may be easier or harder to do.

So if you're:

Human you get + 1 dexterity and + 1 athletics.
Robot you get + 1 intelligence and + 1 defense. Could add some negatives in there too maybe.

Human -1 against fire
Robots - 1 against water

Just ideas.
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Becquerel

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2016, 01:44:24 am »

Well, I'm going to work on my whole Robot thing...I know some of the negatives will be no chakra and no jutsu. I just gotta figure out the whole levels thing :P
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HiroToranaga

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2016, 01:50:54 am »

Under the system that is being built a bonus to an attribute is a major boon, potentially giving an extra die roll to multiple skills and actions. If we balance the races like in DnD, -1 for every +1, it might not seem that bad of a thing yet there are other considerations. The experience point cost for increasing an attribute is quite high so even if you get a minus one in this attribute and a plus one in another that would still work out in your favor compared to someone who has no bonuses or penalties. Take +1 strength and -1 dexterity for instance. If two characters, one human and one with the before mentioned modifiers, made physical their primary attribute they would get 5 points to spread around so they could end up with strength 3 dexterity 3 stamina 2. The human would get these numbers as is while the other race would have strength 4 dexterity 2 stamina 2. In order for the human to get a strength of 4 they would have to spend 20 experience points while the other race to bring up their dexterity to 3 would only cost them 15, effectively putting the human five experience points behind if they go for the same ability build.

The cap for everything right now is five dots so if we have races with bonuses to attributes that could push them above this limit. A person with a strength of 5 versus strength 6 might only result in a one die difference between the two to be sure, but characters having lower strength would have a larger dice gap. They would have to spend a lot of experience points to try and catch up and still fall short in the end.

Personally I'm not worried about balancing. We can fudge numbers until it works. As far as non humans running about that will have to be addressed somehow. World of darkness does accommodate many kinds of creatures under the same system but they cared little about balancing them against each other. As long as people are ok with some races just being better than others we can plug in whatever we want otherwise we will have to sort out what a base human looks like first and then build from there.

Concerning bloodlines and villages? They are still humans, just with extra abilities. An Uchiha's eye's don't make them any faster or stronger nor does a Mist ninja become inherently more deceptive simply for being born there, though we would like to think so haha. They all still have the ability to interbreed and under the right kind of training be able to do all the same kinds of things. I am all for saying that one village is known for a certain elemental preference and skill set but the attributes should probably be left as is.

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Becquerel

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2016, 02:43:00 am »

Well, we'll have to figure out how stat distribution would work. I've been talking to Kayenta about different levels and she'll post that here (hopefully with some ideas to add to that too! :D)
But maybe for bloodline limits, each level of it could get you a +1 in different stat depending on your KG? That would get you a total of +5 spread out over several different abilities that relate to that 'race'. We could always raise/lower that number to determine fairness. But at the same time, this could also mean that you can Overmax. So if you level up your KG and that level gives you a +1 strength and you already have 5 in STR, then you can end up with 6. Having 6 won't give you any extra abilities, but maybe just an extra die for rolls that use that stat/ability or whatever.
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: Ninja: Shinobi Legend [Help topic]
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2016, 03:09:26 am »

Bec and I have been messaging one another, with his permission I am posting that here. and we can continue to talk about this all together.

Quote
So clan =/= KG?

I finished writing up a basic robot thing...As for the levels, they're still a WIP as for what each level will buff and do since we're still working on a buff system. I think what we can do is set up bloodline limits as something you set at character creation while clans (hiden) are things you can eventually gain.

Like if we did it that way for Uchiha, it could be like reborns.
Level 1 One-Tamoe
Level 2 Two-Tamoe
Level 3 Three-Tamoe
Level 4 Mangekyo
Level 5 Eternal Mangekyo

Then we determine what perks you get with each level. Of course, we'll have to be creative for all the clans so that they're still somewhat balanced. And if you don't want to have a bloodline limit or are willing to write up a custom one, then that would be do-able too. And maybe we can make it a max of two with one being chosen at character-creation while the other only being choose able after you max out one. And maybe the second could only be leveled up to 3? Mind you, if you think the ideas I'm saying aren't doo-doo, you can share them with everyone
:P

I agree with a lot of this. I think it is important for Becquerel to fiddle with this stuff right from the start because he is a Robot. His character needs special work just to be created.

for everyone else I think it would be useful to do a practice RP to become familiar with how these die rolls...as is...will work and effect you in a combat situation...before we go talking about buffs and things across the board for everyone. I think we need to use the system before we try to modify the system. Let's just try it out and see how it works.

the Clan/KG sections...

Some clans have KG. Others just have Hiden. So clan =/= always equal KG. I think that, for instance, the Nara should be able to be just as great a clan as the Uchiha...with respect to the die rolls they get. to the level of dots that would be put into it to both max out at 5 dots.

Each clan could then be described what the dot levels mean, as becquerel has laid out for the Uchiha. And each dot level could eventually have listed special jutsu where applicable.

Bloodlines I believe would have to be purchased at character creation. You are born like that. Clans however...I think you could learn certain things. the Nara techs can be taught. So if you wished to take a Clan later I think that would be fine.

Max two...between KG/Clan.

I think I just realized something...When we are talking about bonuses and penalties, we mean an additional die to roll or one taken away from your pool to either buff or decrease your chances of success.

Pretend I am being searched for. The seaches uses Wits + Composure = xd10.

On my part to defend someone searching for me, I have to do a stealth check. This is Dex [3] + stealth [2] = 5d10. Cause of my scores.

However, if I use my KG to hide. Hizashi [4] I do not get +4 die. That just is my rank as a Hizashi. I get Rank 4 jutsu in Hizashi. my deflecting light to make me look like I am some place else jutsu, is a Rank 1 Hizashi jutsu. It give me a +1 to defense against search checks.

So I would get Dex [3] + stealth [2] + Hizashi bending light [1] = 6d10
not Dex [3] + stealth [2] + Hizashi [4] = 9d10

so the dots in clan/KG indicate your rank jutsu you can use. or in the case of doujutsu the evolution of your eye. You still need to take your rolls from the individual jutsu that will have to be created to see what buffs you get.

the specific jutsu would tell you the number of die bonus to use for that check.

each clan/KG jutsu may only apply in certain situations. this bending light thing would not effect a sensor checking for me based on my chakra signature. So it adds no defense or die to the roll.

Again I would advise against adding bonuses to attributes because that is a constant effect. We really are going to be strong enough without having a permanent effect in play there.
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