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Author Topic: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)  (Read 2608 times)

Hazama

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2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« on: December 30, 2016, 06:09:46 AM »

Original Topic Here; http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9185.0.html

Alright, I guess maybe my interest in this topic is higher than most other people's but I figured a topic like this could be made just so questions can be answered. Or cleared up.

If the council ends up having an issue with this, just let me know about it and I'll close up/delete this post/topic.

I can already tell that this topic will need to be created so I'm going to nip it in the bud.

Calling the 2nd Bijū Cohort into action!

Matters to be discussed:
1) Can an individual player challenge with multiple characters simultaneously?
1a) If so, does that player then inherit the entire challenge list that comprises of their alts?

2) Does a "loss" automatically initiate the cooldown of the other player's characters if allowed to simultaneously challenge?

3) Can a single character mass challenge for all the Bijū?
3a) If so, can that indidivual have more than one Bijū challenge happening at the same time?


If I think of other matters, then I'll edit this first post to add in the questions. Please be advised that this is discussion meant for the Council to discuss first and foremost before getting the popular opinion.

So that is just to get the questions in this topic, in case people don't want to go over to the other topic. Now to pick up on the talk from the last post...

Call for an edit of the rule then, because as per the discussions held when the rule was created....challenger meant the character, not the player.

As it stands, he can make challenges for other bijuu. He can host more than one beast. If he couldn't it kind of makes collection them pointless.

Personally, I had thought that the rules pertained to the person behind the account, not the character itself. Because if it means the character and not the person, then someone can do this;

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9180.0.html
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9182.0.html
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9181.0.html

And literally put in ten challengers at once and effectively make it so that no one else can challenge me until they get to try over and over, effectively taking away anyone else's shot at a Bijuu for weeks, if not months. o.o I figured that was the reason that the challenger rule applied to the person behind the account and not to the account.

In my mind, I believe that we need to amend the clause that allows for 1 person to hold more than one Bijū. I very, very firmly believe that it should be 1 Bijū per PLAYER, not character.

And this, really? o.o But like Kay said, it would defeat the purpose of being able to collect if you did something like that. Hell, when we went to redistribute the Bijuu, we had issues getting people coming out to fight for them at first. And then the people that did come out to fight, almost all of them are no longer active or even around << Limiting Bijuu to one per person would be several steps back.

And finally;

Even though Ryoji is doing this out of pure spite there isn't a rule he's breaking.

I know... Right?
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KayentaMoenkopi

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2017, 06:00:21 AM »

Quote
Quote from: Dāto Terumī on December 27, 2016, 09:18:11 am
In my mind, I believe that we need to amend the clause that allows for 1 person to hold more than one Bijū. I very, very firmly believe that it should be 1 Bijū per PLAYER, not character.

this rule is not even 1 year old yet. I think before we start changing the rules that the community voted on, we should focus on creating rules to handle the issues that have no rule even dealing with them.

I too, do not think multi-hosting should be allowed. But the voters DO!
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Eric

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 06:51:10 AM »

Can a single player mass challenge? Well, during the distribution period limits on challenges per player were made. Should this be a more regular sort of restriction, especially when the same player is being challenged by the same player on multiple alternates?
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Ѕhadow

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2017, 06:55:47 AM »

You can only challenge a bijuu host for a specific bijuu once.


If I challenge Athos for the 8 tails with 16 characters I still only get one fight with him for that bijuu.

Can one person challenge the host for all of their bijuu at once....well in that case I think there should be a cool down added to it. Like 1-2 weeks in between each challenge.
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Dart Terumī

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 07:45:01 AM »

You can only challenge a bijuu host for a specific bijuu once.


If I challenge Athos for the 8 tails with 16 characters I still only get one fight with him for that bijuu.

Can one person challenge the host for all of their bijuu at once....well in that case I think there should be a cool down added to it. Like 1-2 weeks in between each challenge.

Except the current rules states that each character you challenge him with gets their fight despite it being all one player. Hence why I made the topic to begin with. <.<
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Ѕhadow

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2017, 07:50:53 AM »

You can only challenge a bijuu host for a specific bijuu once.


If I challenge Athos for the 8 tails with 16 characters I still only get one fight with him for that bijuu.

Can one person challenge the host for all of their bijuu at once....well in that case I think there should be a cool down added to it. Like 1-2 weeks in between each challenge.

Except the current rules states that each character you challenge him with gets their fight despite it being all one player. Hence why I made the topic to begin with. <.<

**After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for three (3) months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.**

The highlighted red part says otherwise unless I'm reading it wrong.

I can send 16 alts after one host, but of those 16 I send I still only get 1 fight out of it.

In the same sense I can send 16 alts after Athos's bijuu, but I can only do 1 fight per bijuu.
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Eric

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2017, 08:05:19 AM »

You can only challenge a bijuu host for a specific bijuu once.


If I challenge Athos for the 8 tails with 16 characters I still only get one fight with him for that bijuu.

Can one person challenge the host for all of their bijuu at once....well in that case I think there should be a cool down added to it. Like 1-2 weeks in between each challenge.

Except the current rules states that each character you challenge him with gets their fight despite it being all one player. Hence why I made the topic to begin with. <.<

**After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for three (3) months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.**

The highlighted red part says otherwise unless I'm reading it wrong.

I can send 16 alts after one host, but of those 16 I send I still only get 1 fight out of it.

In the same sense I can send 16 alts after Athos's bijuu, but I can only do 1 fight per bijuu.

If they are known to be alts and abuse is caught, then challenging the same beast with multiple alternates would be caught in its tracks. However, if they are not known to be alts or are not provable to be so (a less extreme example being going at it with 2 alts instead of 16) then pending the Biju Council not dismissing the challenge, that could be a potential way around that stipulation.
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Dart Terumī

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2017, 08:35:23 AM »

You can only challenge a bijuu host for a specific bijuu once.


If I challenge Athos for the 8 tails with 16 characters I still only get one fight with him for that bijuu.

Can one person challenge the host for all of their bijuu at once....well in that case I think there should be a cool down added to it. Like 1-2 weeks in between each challenge.

Except the current rules states that each character you challenge him with gets their fight despite it being all one player. Hence why I made the topic to begin with. <.<

**After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for three (3) months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.**

The highlighted red part says otherwise unless I'm reading it wrong.

I can send 16 alts after one host, but of those 16 I send I still only get 1 fight out of it.

In the same sense I can send 16 alts after Athos's bijuu, but I can only do 1 fight per bijuu.

It's not a current rule. As the rule implies, it's that specific character that goes on cooldown.

Hence why I made the topic in the first place but you kind of shot it down as evidenced here:

1) Can an individual player challenge with multiple characters simultaneously?
1a) If so, does that player then inherit the entire challenge list that comprises of their alts?

2) Does a "loss" automatically initiate the cooldown of the other player's characters if allowed to simultaneously challenge?

3) Can a single character mass challenge for all the Bijū?
3a) If so, can that indidivual have more than one Bijū challenge happening at the same time?

1: You can challenge a host with multiple bijuu for all of their bijuu with different accounts at the same time.
1A: This doesn't have a defined rule that I'm aware of.

2: No, the 3 month cooldown is based on bijuu, not character.

3: Yes. I could (and anyone else) challenge everyone at once if I wanted to.
3A: Yes. Most matches are OOC.

--------------------------------

So as it is the only issue I see is the 1a question. Ryoji can technically challenge Athos on all of his alts for a specific bijuu.

I don't like the idea of someone flooding a challenger's list with alts though. We should add a rule for that.

--------------------------------

Even though Ryoji is doing this out of pure spite there isn't a rule he's breaking.

After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for three (3) months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.

-----------------------------

Regardless of what happens Ryoji can only fight Athos 4 times. After that he has 3 months to wait.

Now, you're kinda  flip-flopping on your argument.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 09:03:23 AM by Dāto Terumī »
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Hazama

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2017, 05:44:46 PM »

You can only challenge a bijuu host for a specific bijuu once.


If I challenge Athos for the 8 tails with 16 characters I still only get one fight with him for that bijuu.

Can one person challenge the host for all of their bijuu at once....well in that case I think there should be a cool down added to it. Like 1-2 weeks in between each challenge.

Except the current rules states that each character you challenge him with gets their fight despite it being all one player. Hence why I made the topic to begin with. <.<

**After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for three (3) months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.**

The highlighted red part says otherwise unless I'm reading it wrong.

I can send 16 alts after one host, but of those 16 I send I still only get 1 fight out of it.

In the same sense I can send 16 alts after Athos's bijuu, but I can only do 1 fight per bijuu.

It's not a current rule. As the rule implies, it's that specific character that goes on cooldown.

Hence why I made the topic in the first place but you kind of shot it down as evidenced here:

1) Can an individual player challenge with multiple characters simultaneously?
1a) If so, does that player then inherit the entire challenge list that comprises of their alts?

2) Does a "loss" automatically initiate the cooldown of the other player's characters if allowed to simultaneously challenge?

3) Can a single character mass challenge for all the Bijū?
3a) If so, can that indidivual have more than one Bijū challenge happening at the same time?

1: You can challenge a host with multiple bijuu for all of their bijuu with different accounts at the same time.
1A: This doesn't have a defined rule that I'm aware of.

2: No, the 3 month cooldown is based on bijuu, not character.

3: Yes. I could (and anyone else) challenge everyone at once if I wanted to.
3A: Yes. Most matches are OOC.

--------------------------------

So as it is the only issue I see is the 1a question. Ryoji can technically challenge Athos on all of his alts for a specific bijuu.

I don't like the idea of someone flooding a challenger's list with alts though. We should add a rule for that.

--------------------------------

Even though Ryoji is doing this out of pure spite there isn't a rule he's breaking.

After losing a challenge, you may not challenge the same host for the same beast for three (3) months. However, you may challenge this same host for a different beast in his possession without waiting.

-----------------------------

Regardless of what happens Ryoji can only fight Athos 4 times. After that he has 3 months to wait.

Now, you're kinda  flip-flopping on your argument.

How is he flip-flopping anything? .-. All you did was highlight in red different parts of the same quote. Doesn't make sense.

I don't get how you aren't understand what Shadow is trying to say. So let's use you as an example.

Let's say you have the Three, Four, and Five Tails Dart. And then, all at once, I decide to challenge you with Athos, Hazama, Kuron, Bocchiere, Taiga, Desare, and Kaze. And I challenge you for all three of your beasts. And then Trev challenges you.

So your current challenge list is;
Athos
Hazama
Kuron
Bocchiere(ET)
Taiga(ET)
Desare(ET)
Kaze
Trev

You're telling me it makes more sense to fight me seven times in a row before someone else gets to fight you for a beast instead of me losing once, being forced to cooldown, and then we fight again after other people actually get a shot? >_> What part of that makes sense to you?

WAIT

Now that I am thinking about this, when the big redistribution for the Bijuu happened, it was stated before they started that whoever you fought in the tournament, that fight would count as their challenge and initiate the three month cooldown period. It was exactly the reason Ryoji was making me jump through circles to get in an early challenge for the Nine Tails.

So, by using that logic, we already have our answer. And I was in that tourney, so was Shadow last I checked, and so were you Dart. So using previously agreed to terms, we already have our answer .__. that the rule applies to the person behind the account and not the characters. Otherwise it would be flippin' retarded.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 06:03:07 PM by Athos »
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Dart Terumī

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2017, 07:10:14 PM »

I didn't highlight anything in red, that was from his previous post. I didn't feel like scrolling through the mound of text to change the color tags.


Again, I shall re-iterate because it doesn't seem like anyone is understanding me at all:

I BELIEVE THAT IT SHOULD BE 1 BIJŪ PER PLAYER.

THEREFORE, I THINK IT IS COMPLETELY ASININE THAT JINCHŪRIKI CAN BE CHALLENGED BY ALTERNATIVE ACCOUNTS AND TAKE UP SPACE ON SOMEONE'S CHALLENGER LIST.


UNLESS WE GET A WORDING CHANGE TO THE RULES, HOWEVER, THE CURRENT RULE-SET DOES NOT PROHIBIT THIS FROM OCCURRING.

WHICH I THINK IS DUCKING RETARDED.



What I think Ryoji did to Athos is hands-down spiteful and stupid. But, we don't enforce anything by emotion. We enforce the rules. The rules do not specify the difference between player and character. As is, it sort of implies that the specific character goes on cooldown.

I think the word should be amended and that a new clause be added.

I propose the following to fix this stupid shit:

1) Change the wording in the entire rules from "challenger" to "player" or add an addendum that specifics that the "challenger" is in fact the player behind the screen.

2) It doesn't matter how many alts you throw at a person, the cooldown immediately resets for the player and all his/her characters for that specific bijū.

3) Should a player attempt to circumnavigate his way around his cooldown by claiming someone else is using his account, then that specific player be disbarred for an entire year for challenging for any bijū.

4) Should it be discovered that a previously unknown alt is determined and fact-checked to be him/her and he/she is in the middle of a cooldown phase, then that individual gets the year long ban as punishment for attempting to route the system.

5) Claims that someone else in the household plays the game and shares the IP address of the player shall NOT be accepted and that it will be a violation of the cooldown phase and initiate the punishment ban.



Yes, I am wellllll aware that I could challenge Athos for the 6 and lose but then be viable to challenge for the 5 without needing a cooldown.

I am referring to the fact that Athos got spammed out the ass with multi-alts in an attempt to prevent Athos from having any other challenges from other people. I think that is completely wrong....however, the current rules does not technicially prohibit that.

Which is what we need to fix.

Seriously. How in the hell can no one understand my viewpoint here?
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Hazama

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2017, 07:32:21 PM »

Because what you're saying is not a problem. We all already understand that the challenger is the person doing the challenge not the character. We all know already that when you lose a fight you can't challenge that same bijuu for 3 months with any of your characters because we understand the context in which the rule was made. Apparently you do not.

As I said before, technically, Rusaku can challenge me with all 8 of his alts or whatever. In effect it doesn't actually mean anything because of the cooldown rule. He will either win the fight, and the other challenges will be meaningless because he now has the bijuu, or he will lose the fight and the other challenges will be meaningless because he cannot fight me for 3 months. I could even leave the names on the challenge list and just let anyone else who challenges come to the front of the line.

There is no problem with the current wording of the rules. You made this topic under the assumption that Rusaku's challenges to me was going to cause a problem but it has not. He accepted he has to wait for my fight with Trev to be over and if after my first fight with Rusaku he doesn't understand how the cooldown rule works we can explain it to him then.

I understand how you are saying it is not clear if challenger means the player or the character. If we were just viewing that rule in a vacuum you would be right. But we all already know that challenger means player in regards to that rule. If there was ever any confusion regarding it anyone who is involved with bijuu would be able to tell you that it means player because just using common sense that is the only way that rule makes sense, if you understand the context in which it was made.

If it's that big of a deal to Dart I agree we should change the wording from challenger to player but other than that there is no problem here.
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Dart Terumī

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2017, 08:07:39 PM »

Because what you're saying is not a problem. We all already understand that the challenger is the person doing the challenge not the character. We all know already that when you lose a fight you can't challenge that same bijuu for 3 months with any of your characters because we understand the context in which the rule was made. Apparently you do not.

As I said before, technically, Rusaku can challenge me with all 8 of his alts or whatever. In effect it doesn't actually mean anything because of the cooldown rule. He will either win the fight, and the other challenges will be meaningless because he now has the bijuu, or he will lose the fight and the other challenges will be meaningless because he cannot fight me for 3 months. I could even leave the names on the challenge list and just let anyone else who challenges come to the front of the line.

There is no problem with the current wording of the rules. You made this topic under the assumption that Rusaku's challenges to me was going to cause a problem but it has not. He accepted he has to wait for my fight with Trev to be over and if after my first fight with Rusaku he doesn't understand how the cooldown rule works we can explain it to him then.

I understand how you are saying it is not clear if challenger means the player or the character. If we were just viewing that rule in a vacuum you would be right. But we all already know that challenger means player in regards to that rule. If there was ever any confusion regarding it anyone who is involved with bijuu would be able to tell you that it means player because just using common sense that is the only way that rule makes sense, if you understand the context in which it was made.

If it's that big of a deal to Dart I agree we should change the wording from challenger to player but other than that there is no problem here.

Trust me, I'm fully aware that common sense dictates that it's the player and I completely understand that as does the mass majority of everyone else. But there will be one person, there's always someone out there, who will fight against the common sense portion and fight expressedly with the stated rule.

That is what I want to nip in the bud by adding the proposed changes.
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Hazama

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Re: 2nd Bijū Cohort Call-to-Arms! (Public Discussion)
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2017, 08:08:42 PM »

I just disagree that it is needed since no one would agree with anyone that did that. But it doesn't hurt anyone to make those changes either so we might as well.
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