Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JayJay]

Well, things were brought to light and its effected a pretty important fight. What was once a smooth going battle has been halted because of this problem. This is me, getting the participants together, only the participants, so we can come to a decision in getting us a new judge.

We cant choose council members, so who else could be a good fit for the bout. Let's hope we can finish this quickly so we can get back to the fight. I would like to nominate Eric, since he's cool and is a big member of the community.

[Camel]

Well, things were brought to light and its effected a pretty important fight. What was once a smooth going battle has been halted because of this problem. This is me, getting the participants together, only the participants, so we can come to a decision in getting us a new judge.

We cant choose council members, so who else could be a good fit for the bout. Let's hope we can finish this quickly so we can get back to the fight. I would like to nominate Eric, since he's cool and is a big member of the community.

I would rather wait until the issue is resolved before discussing the possibility of a new judge, but I feel that some of you are not as patient for this to be resolved. Which is fine if that is the case, although I am a bit hesitant to continue when our current judge was in the middle of an issue that would need his ruling. (Jay's issue got resolved, but not Athos's. I want that issue resolved before we actually go through with this.)

As for alternative choices, I don't see much to choose from the limit pool of players that actually come to the forums. I would have to say Eric, if he is up to it. Other than that, I don't have much to pick from if he declines the position. Teostra? Rusaku? Kayenta? Possibly Nathan?

[Hazama]

Do I have an issue? I did but I haven't been part of the discussion at all so I have no idea what's going on. All I had an issue with was the range and time of your Izanagi and I thought I cleared that up right away with manga evidence.

I'm fine with Eric too. Kayenta is on the council by the way so she'd be ineligible too.

[Eric]

If you guys are still in need then I would be fine with judging. Just send the PM's here to my forum account as I don't check the PM's on SL as regularly.

[Camel]

Do I have an issue? I did but I haven't been part of the discussion at all so I have no idea what's going on. All I had an issue with was the range and time of your Izanagi and I thought I cleared that up right away with manga evidence.

We still do, since I am discussing your manga "evidence" with Trev and provided some manga evidence of my own as rebuttal, I am just still waiting on his response and eventual ruling. So if anything, I deserve that ruling before everyone starts jumping ship with our choice of judge and head with someone else.

Just to be clear, I don't want anyone to get ahead of themselves and make it out so the rug is being pulled from underneath me.

TL;DR

You provided evidence of Danzo using his version of Izanagi, which only lasts one minute per eye. Danzo = Non Uchiha and Implanted Senju genes. The character of Kamui is no Danzo, he's an Uchiha and Senju hybrid, which brings me to my next case.

Obito boasted the completed form of Izanagi, which lasts ten minutes. How did it last that long? Well Konan used her sea of explosive tags technique, which was a billion tags going off for the span of ten minutes; it was an event that Obito happened to survive. Obito = Uchiha with Senju genes. Kamui = Uchiha with Senju genes.

Kamui is no Danzo. For the record, Izanagi only effects the personal space of that caster, none of that anime-filler expansion that allows you to cast it on other people. Five minutes per post, meaning I have an action that is taken due to the lingering effects of Izanagi and would only leave me with an action to spare next round since Sage Mode is up next.   

If you guys are still in need then I would be fine with judging. Just send the PM's here to my forum account as I don't check the PM's on SL as regularly.

I would actually prefer it if you tried to maintain contact on server as well, Trev had no problem doing it as our judge. It shouldn't be much of an issue to regularly log on here to check private mails and not do the same by logging onto the server to check your own mails. You can do that, right? Please?

PS: Why did you guys go with Trev, if it was against the rules? I even suggested that we go with someone else before the match started to prevent something like this and now for all of this to happen during the middle of the ruling makes me very suspicious.

[Hazama]

The entire scene with Konan and Obito is one gigantic plot hole, next to none of it makes any sense. Ok she has 600 billion exploding tags. She's shown no evidence to be able to make exploding tags from her jutsu, just control them. Assuming it takes 1 second to make an exploding tag by hand and she makes one a second every second with no delay in between them it would take, let's see.

600000000000 seconds = 6944445 days (rounded up)
6944445 days = 19025.87671 years

Yeah so a little under 20,000 years to prepare those tags.

Or how about how Obito is falling down into Konan's jutsu and this lake is so deep that he can fall for 5 minutes straight without phasing through the lake floor to safety. He'd fall just a little under 10 miles in that time by the way. The technique isn't even that wide so even if the lake around is Ame is the deepest in the world once the explosions started going off and Konan couldn't see him any more Obito could just glide to safety out of the radius of the attack, directing his fall like a skydiver.

There's also the fact that this is all Obito says about his "complete" form of Izanagi.



He never explicitly or implicitly says anything about an increased time or anything about what makes his version "complete" at all. There's also the fact that Obito is an untrustworthy narrator he lies to people in universe and to the audience reading. I have just as much evidence as you do that the "complete" form of Izanagi is just the ability to do it without having to use hand signs like Danzo. Except I actually do have proof of that because we know that is the case. Obito got an arm blown off before he used Izanagi and he can't do one-handed kata. Or it could just be another of many plot-holes in that scene.

Your evidence doesn't exist because we never see what Obito did, it starts to explode then cuts to after the attack is done, we don't know what he did. Senju enhanced Izanagi lets you have it for the entire post instead of just a split-second like regular Izanagi and that is more than enough. If you want to claim otherwise and the judge agrees, that's fine, because I have an Edo Bocchiere with 6 Sharingan in his back so I kinda hope you win the decision so you can deal with 12 rounds of that.

As for the range part I can't seem to find anything on the regular wiki about what those distances mean but on our wiki, when you make a jutsu, it tells you short range means 0-5 meters. You're in an Amaterasu blanket 10 meters wide so you could Izanagi out of it you'd just have to disappear, reappear 5 meters away, get hit with it again, and then disappear a second time to get out of it.

[Teostra]

Why didn't Obito fall for miles? Why didn't it take Konan a bunch of years to make these tags? Because it's a Manga and it doesn't have to make sense. It's more dramatic to basically have someone who seems to have a time limit on how long he's immune to damage be stuck in a damage state until it wears out. (Imagine playing Sonic/Mario and you get invincibility just to get stuck somewhere where you will die when it wears out).

Just saying.

[Eric]

I can check on server too, it's just a few more clicks after all. No worries there.

[Vail]

The entire scene with Konan and Obito is one gigantic plot hole, next to none of it makes any sense. Ok she has 600 billion exploding tags. She's shown no evidence to be able to make exploding tags from her jutsu, just control them. Assuming it takes 1 second to make an exploding tag by hand and she makes one a second every second with no delay in between them it would take, let's see.

600000000000 seconds = 6944445 days (rounded up)
6944445 days = 19025.87671 years

Yeah so a little under 20,000 years to prepare those tags.

Or how about how Obito is falling down into Konan's jutsu and this lake is so deep that he can fall for 5 minutes straight without phasing through the lake floor to safety. He'd fall just a little under 10 miles in that time by the way. The technique isn't even that wide so even if the lake around is Ame is the deepest in the world once the explosions started going off and Konan couldn't see him any more Obito could just glide to safety out of the radius of the attack, directing his fall like a skydiver.

There's also the fact that this is all Obito says about his "complete" form of Izanagi.



He never explicitly or implicitly says anything about an increased time or anything about what makes his version "complete" at all. There's also the fact that Obito is an untrustworthy narrator he lies to people in universe and to the audience reading. I have just as much evidence as you do that the "complete" form of Izanagi is just the ability to do it without having to use hand signs like Danzo. Except I actually do have proof of that because we know that is the case. Obito got an arm blown off before he used Izanagi and he can't do one-handed kata. Or it could just be another of many plot-holes in that scene.

Your evidence doesn't exist because we never see what Obito did, it starts to explode then cuts to after the attack is done, we don't know what he did. Senju enhanced Izanagi lets you have it for the entire post instead of just a split-second like regular Izanagi and that is more than enough. If you want to claim otherwise and the judge agrees, that's fine, because I have an Edo Bocchiere with 6 Sharingan in his back so I kinda hope you win the decision so you can deal with 12 rounds of that.

As for the range part I can't seem to find anything on the regular wiki about what those distances mean but on our wiki, when you make a jutsu, it tells you short range means 0-5 meters. You're in an Amaterasu blanket 10 meters wide so you could Izanagi out of it you'd just have to disappear, reappear 5 meters away, get hit with it again, and then disappear a second time to get out of it.

All of this is conjecture. Just about everything in Naruto doesn't make sense, and you pointing out how the logistics of Konan's attack makes it impossible to do doesn't matter - because it did. Calling Obito's moral character into question is irrelevant also. He says he used Izanagi to survive the attack, and as Kamui noted, the attack lasts for 10 minutes - so the logical conclusion is that Obito was using Izanagi that entire time.

You're not allowed to wildly speculate on what might have been or what makes sense or not. You can only operate on the evidence shown in the text (in this case, the manga) and the implications of that evidence. Anything beyond that is useless conjecture.

[Hazama]

Obito also said he was Madara Uchiha for a while and that was inaccurate too. That is my point though we can only go off what it shows and it never says anywhere that he can use it for a longer time than Danzo. Look at the wiki page.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Izanagi

The only place it mentions the complete form is in the trivia section, not in the actual part explaining how the jutsu works. It says,

"Obito, who also made use of Hashirama's DNA, noted that Danzō couldn't properly control Hashirama's DNA and because such, he couldn't perform a complete form of Izanagi.[6] Showing evidence, Obito could maintain this technique much longer with a single eye than Danzō and perform it with no hand seals."

That first foot note links to the page I showed you, and that second part explaining what benefits the complete form offers has no footnote because it never says that anywhere and it's just an assumption.

It's not a wildly illogical assumption but an assumption none the less and I think if we're going to buff Izanagi we should have more than an assumption as proof. It's just as likely that the complete form lets him use it with no hand seals and increases the range, so he could appear outside Konan's attack as it is that it increases the time limit.

Izanagi is fine as it is, it's complete damage negation and it does not need to be buffed.

[Camel]

He never explicitly or implicitly says anything about an increased time or anything about what makes his version "complete" at all.

Oh yeah? Then if the time limit is so much of an issue to you, then why does it explicitly say that his version lasted ten minutes? Hell, Madara's lasted longer since everyone thought him to be dead and didn't expect him to use a transcription seal version of it; the guy also used a shadow clone to pull everything off.

I didn't find this information on the Izanagi page, but I had to go look into the character profile of Obito in order to find out the duration of the completed form of Izanagi.

Obito has a number of Sharingan in his possession which he keeps in storage should he need them. He uses one of these Sharingan to replace the one he gave to Kakashi, although he keeps it covered with his mask most of the time. He later sacrifices this spare eye's vision in order to perform Izanagi, which allows the user to manipulate events around them. Izanagi ordinarily lasts for only the briefest of moments, but with his access to Hashirama's DNA he can maintain it for ten minutes using a single eye. [78]

The time limit above isn't an assumption, but a fact that is easily disregarded these days. Problem is how do you accurately measure out time limits in posts? Or even time for that matter? I brought that issue up with Trev and like you said, we can only go on the assumption that a certain amount of time has passed; it is literally a guess on how much time passed from the last post.

Obito got an arm blown off before he used Izanagi and he can't do one-handed kata. Or it could just be another of many plot-holes in that scene.

Your evidence doesn't exist because we never see what Obito did, it starts to explode then cuts to after the attack is done, we don't know what he did. Senju enhanced Izanagi lets you have it for the entire post instead of just a split-second like regular Izanagi and that is more than enough. If you want to claim otherwise and the judge agrees, that's fine, because I have an Edo Bocchiere with 6 Sharingan in his back so I kinda hope you win the decision so you can deal with 12 rounds of that.

Or maybe Obito didn't expect that much elaborate planning into killing him that it sort of caught him off-guard so much that he had no choice but to sacrifice an eye for Izanagi. Who knows?

We may not necessarily know what happened when everything cut off, but we do know that Izanagi still chains to any damage that would've hit the caster.  An entire post? I guess I missed the thread where everyone agreed to a single post per Senju-enhanced Izanagi or was that post limit something that another player went with?

If you want to say that my Izanagi will only work for one post, that is fine with me. It'll give me some more room to work with, since had you agreed to the limit that I put up. I would've been restricted to one new action in the next round, since I would've had Izanagi still active next post and that would've taken a slot out of my actions.

You're in an Amaterasu blanket 10 meters wide so you could Izanagi out of it you'd just have to disappear, reappear 5 meters away, get hit with it again, and then disappear a second time to get out of it.

So if I get hit with Amaterasu while Izanagi is still active, the damage from it will get negated. Any damage will continue to be negated for the duration of the technique being active, so yeah I will get hit twice by Amaterasu and not be harmed by it. Same applies to the other DBZ-esque move that is heading my way, which I stated in my posts would chain to Izanagi and vice-versa.

[JayJay]

I know I'm late, but I thought that he was using his Kamui to be intangible and had hit a time limit or something. That's what I thought when I first watched it several years ago... yall making it seem like someone gotta read the entire series again to understand most of these things. Not to mention this is severely off topic for this thread... but it could be almost finished so...... I'm hungry.

[Hazama]

No it is not a fact. That footnote on the portion you copy pasted you know what it links to? The same pages I already linked to where all Obito says is some people only have an incomplete form. It's just the same assumption as before. Yes I'd like you to limit it to one post because I've never seen anyone do anything other than that.

And yes you'd Izanagi out of everything that hit you but you're claiming to run away basically unhindered which isn't really accurate. Every time you get hit you'd have to vanish and reappear which would slow you down. As long as you have no problems with that then I am good.

[Camel]

No it is not a fact. That footnote on the portion you copy pasted you know what it links to? The same pages I already linked to where all Obito says is some people only have an incomplete form. It's just the same assumption as before. Yes I'd like you to limit it to one post because I've never seen anyone do anything other than that.

And yes you'd Izanagi out of everything that hit you but you're claiming to run away basically unhindered which isn't really accurate. Every time you get hit you'd have to vanish and reappear which would slow you down. As long as you have no problems with that then I am good.

Actually Obito was referring to Danzo when he said "some people only have an incomplete form of Izanagi", I don't see how that was so hard to miss. And didn't Danzo need a number of Sharingan implants and Hashirama DNA implant in order to fully utilized what would've been the full effect of Izanagi? If Izanagi is limited to that one post. I guess if anyone tries to pull off another Izanagi, it would count as that one post duration? Sage Mode or even Senju enhancements wouldn't draw out the duration limit that you suggested. Everyone is cool with this handicap for the rest of the fight?

How is it not accurate that I would walk away unhindered? Didn't Danzo continue on as if nothing ever happened when he was hit by the chakra arrow of Susano'o? I think the wikipedia page confirm it, don't know if you accept that as fact though.

Look buddy, I chained to the damage that I would've received with Izanagi. Which negated any damage that turn and that damage became an illusion, which means that I would continue on as if nothing ever happened according to the effects described on that link: Although the target remains physically real while fighting, this technique is capable of turning any occurrence including injuries and even death inflicted upon them, as long as the technique is active, into mere "illusions." Whenever the user receives a fatal injury, he or she will automatically fade away before returning back to reality; physically real and unscathed.

I know I'm late, but I thought that he was using his Kamui to be intangible and had hit a time limit or something. That's what I thought when I first watched it several years ago... yall making it seem like someone gotta read the entire series again to understand most of these things. Not to mention this is severely off topic for this thread... but it could be almost finished so...... I'm hungry.

I highly suggest go re-watching the anime itself, since the manga only leaves to the imagination and animation allows us to see that specific technique in motion. Kamui itself had a time limit that Konan became aware of over time and she used that as an advantage to create that sea of explosive tags. Obito underestimated her abilities and pulled out Izanagi in order to not prematurely die.

The only plot hole here is why didn't Obito send himself into his personal 'Kamui' dimension in order to escape that damage? You wouldn't have to use Izanagi when you can hide in your personal dimension to escape hairy situations. <<

[Hazama]

I understand the damage gets negated but each time Danzo gets hit he "dies" vanishes and then reappears. That takes a second so you wouldn't literally be running forward nonstop. That's all I mean.