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Poll

What is the multiplier for Tenseigan Chakra Mode?

3x
- 7 (70%)
4.5x
- 1 (10%)
6x
- 0 (0%)
Other
- 2 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 05, 2017, 08:48:21 PM


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Author Topic: Questions about Tenseigan  (Read 8348 times)

Hazama

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Questions about Tenseigan
« on: February 19, 2017, 07:38:37 AM »

Not sure if this should be here or the bijuu board. It's only about Tenseigan and if it is fair but it's related to the Tenseigan Rusaku wants to use in my Bijuu defense against him. So move the topic if need be.

This is what Rusaku wants to use

Tenseigan:
All 5 nature transformations
Tenseigan Chakra armor
Deva path
All previously mentioned jutsu on a much smaller scale, and without truth seeking balls.

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8444.msg221038.html

Now that sounded fine to me I just asked him to explain the capabilities of the Tenseigan chakra mode to make sure he wasn't hiding anything there.

He proceeds to tell me that it is as strong as Senjutsu enhanced Kyuubi Chakra Mode, which is a x6 multiplier, plus those other abilities that are listed.

My response to that was having an ability that is literally just Sage Mode, twice as strong, and with other added abilities doesn't seem fair at all. You can enhance yourself and your jutsu with the Tenseigan shroud so the only trade off is you lose Frog Kata and Natural Energy Sensing, which doesn't matter since no Sage Mode user can hit you with their kata taijutsu if you're three times faster than them.

His response was that it is fair for reasons regarding the source material that I don't understand and he refuses to explain because, "I don't have to explain my abilities weaknesses to you." Which seems an awfully convenient thing to be able to say to anyone saying your abilities are god mod.

Considering the quality of judge decisions I've been getting lately and since we don't have a judge yet I wanted to get a community decision on it. Hopefully Rusaku will reveal his secret reason why his ability is fair and all will become clear but until then I want to get a group call on it.
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Trev

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2017, 08:52:10 AM »

Not sure if this should be here or the bijuu board. It's only about Tenseigan and if it is fair but it's related to the Tenseigan Rusaku wants to use in my Bijuu defense against him. So move the topic if need be.

This is what Rusaku wants to use

Tenseigan:
All 5 nature transformations
Tenseigan Chakra armor
Deva path
All previously mentioned jutsu on a much smaller scale, and without truth seeking balls.

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8444.msg221038.html

Now that sounded fine to me I just asked him to explain the capabilities of the Tenseigan chakra mode to make sure he wasn't hiding anything there.

He proceeds to tell me that it is as strong as Senjutsu enhanced Kyuubi Chakra Mode, which is a x6 multiplier, plus those other abilities that are listed.

My response to that was having an ability that is literally just Sage Mode, twice as strong, and with other added abilities doesn't seem fair at all. You can enhance yourself and your jutsu with the Tenseigan shroud so the only trade off is you lose Frog Kata and Natural Energy Sensing, which doesn't matter since no Sage Mode user can hit you with their kata taijutsu if you're three times faster than them.

His response was that it is fair for reasons regarding the source material that I don't understand and he refuses to explain because, "I don't have to explain my abilities weaknesses to you." Which seems an awfully convenient thing to be able to say to anyone saying your abilities are god mod.

Considering the quality of judge decisions I've been getting lately and since we don't have a judge yet I wanted to get a community decision on it. Hopefully Rusaku will reveal his secret reason why his ability is fair and all will become clear but until then I want to get a group call on it.

I mean when I briefly fought Rus and he used it, it didn't seem too unfair.

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8491.0.html

So I think if he used it similar to that, it shouldn't be an issue. Although I understand wanting everything clearly laid out.

If I had to say, I would say Tenseigan = Sage Mode = Rinnegan. Tenseigan in it's current nerfed format should be equal to the two other great powers.

So in my ideal world I would say Tenseigan would be this:
All 5 natures
Deva path stuff
few unique jutsu, like 3 I think the wiki list?
and the armor.

I would say the Rinnegan grants the user really specific techniques, Sage Mode grants all your jutsu boosts, and Tenseigan grants a body mode. So like a Sage Mode user and Tenseigan user both used fire release: fireball ninjutsu, the sage mode users would win out. But like in a fist fight, or tanking damage, Tensiegan would win out.

I also wish people would stop using multiplies, it's just getting silly and arbitrary and is causing issues. Either a tech is better, worse, or equal to something. No need to quantify everything and create issues. Like stacking stuff and inserting random number multipler.

So the real question is how strong should the armor be? I personally ban custom biju mode cloaks, as I believe only the 9 tails Jinch should get that. But because I'm that elisted about it, I don't think someone with Tenseigan should just have access to a power only one person has just cause they claimed a tech.

So to me Tenseigan mode > Lightning Armor, but under 9-tails chakra mode, maybe under Kurama Mode max

I mean I know the cannon puts it on par with like Kurama mode or hold it's own to Six Paths Sage Mode, but that shouldn't be allowed.

Just my two cents anyway.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 09:19:32 AM by Trev »
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Hazama

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2017, 09:53:05 AM »

I understand the numbers are basically meaningless but alas they are one of the few things people agree on. The wiki says Tenseigan is equal to Naruto's Sage Enhanced Nine Tails Chakra Mode a x3 and a x3 equaling an x6 buff.

I'd definitely agree to faster than Raiton no Yoroi, under Nine Tails Mode.

My concession was this.

Tenseigan:
All 5 nature transformations
Tenseigan Chakra armor (Buffs equal to Sage Mode so x3)
Deva path
All previously mentioned jutsu on a much smaller scale, and without truth seeking balls.
Since no mention is made of the ocular prowess of the eyes you get all the abilities you would while using Byakugan.

I thought that was more than reasonable but Rusaku said the only way he'd agree to bringing it down to x3 would be if he got to use Truth Seeking Balls and the unnerfed Reincarnation Explosions which puts them on planet busting levels. Obviously I said no since that's just even more god mod.
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Trev

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2017, 10:05:30 AM »

That's reasonably fair to me.

If anything, I'd just maybe make like one slight concession and say instead of truth seeking balls, they are just random chakra orbs. I know some Tenseigan Techs are channeled through the orbs, so I'd allow basic generic orbs so they can still do that, but not make it truth seeking balls which are basically impervious to everything but Kamui.

But yeah, no unnerfed Golden Wheel. Blowing up the moon is a bit much and gets us into early DBZ territory.

But that's my solution to your problem. Ryoji can come here and explain his side if he wants, else you too either come along to your own agreement or let other opinions pour in. Good luck to you both!!
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Hazama

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2017, 12:38:08 PM »

That's reasonably fair to me.

If anything, I'd just maybe make like one slight concession and say instead of truth seeking balls, they are just random chakra orbs. I know some Tenseigan Techs are channeled through the orbs, so I'd allow basic generic orbs so they can still do that, but not make it truth seeking balls which are basically impervious to everything but Kamui.

But yeah, no unnerfed Golden Wheel. Blowing up the moon is a bit much and gets us into early DBZ territory.

But that's my solution to your problem. Ryoji can come here and explain his side if he wants, else you too either come along to your own agreement or let other opinions pour in. Good luck to you both!!

I figured that was a given so he could use the nerfed versions of the jutsu. Yeah ive no problem with generic balls of chakra. Hopefully other people also agree that this is a fair breakdown so he can accept it and we can move on to the next 16 arguments we're going to have before the fight starts.  :P
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Timothy

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2017, 02:32:13 PM »

Eh, this stoof is why I'm glad my character is naturally fast/doesn't have to deal with fighting tailed beast cloaks and Tensaigan armors. The speculations of it all is an eyebrow twitching matter

Just make Rusaku goof to the point you can disrupt his chakras & seal away use of those pretty eyes. Make him cry because you declawed his big badness! >:V
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Eric

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2017, 06:23:21 PM »

Summary of some agreed upon guidelines for Tensaigan users:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8444.msg221038.html#msg221038

The primary discussion on Tensaigan:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8243.0.html

A short skim of both reveals that what Rusaku originally claimed is in line with what Tensaigan was overall agreed to be capable of doing. That's all I have to say on Tensaigan usage since my opinion on it hasn't changed much.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 06:23:45 PM by Eric »
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Hazama

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2017, 07:24:50 PM »

Summary of some agreed upon guidelines for Tensaigan users:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8444.msg221038.html#msg221038

The primary discussion on Tensaigan:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8243.0.html

A short skim of both reveals that what Rusaku originally claimed is in line with what Tensaigan was overall agreed to be capable of doing. That's all I have to say on Tensaigan usage since my opinion on it hasn't changed much.

And is there a part where everyone agrees that to make it fair it should be twice as strong as Sage Mode? Because I'm missing that part. In fact I'm seeing a lot more people saying it should be equivalent to Sage Mode.
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Eric

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 08:05:14 PM »

Summary of some agreed upon guidelines for Tensaigan users:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8444.msg221038.html#msg221038

The primary discussion on Tensaigan:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8243.0.html

A short skim of both reveals that what Rusaku originally claimed is in line with what Tensaigan was overall agreed to be capable of doing. That's all I have to say on Tensaigan usage since my opinion on it hasn't changed much.

And is there a part where everyone agrees that to make it fair it should be twice as strong as Sage Mode? Because I'm missing that part. In fact I'm seeing a lot more people saying it should be equivalent to Sage Mode.

Equivalent to Rinnegan is what I am mostly seeing, which would mean equivalent to sage mode (if you consider the two equivalent).

The 3x or 2x or whatever limiters were not brought up at the time, so without said quantities, just how much the Tensaigan chakra cloak buffs was not set in stone, though it does not seem that the chakra mode itself was ever nerfed. Seems like mostly the techniques that the Tensaigan granted.
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Hazama

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2017, 08:25:57 PM »

Summary of some agreed upon guidelines for Tensaigan users:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8444.msg221038.html#msg221038

The primary discussion on Tensaigan:

http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8243.0.html

A short skim of both reveals that what Rusaku originally claimed is in line with what Tensaigan was overall agreed to be capable of doing. That's all I have to say on Tensaigan usage since my opinion on it hasn't changed much.

And is there a part where everyone agrees that to make it fair it should be twice as strong as Sage Mode? Because I'm missing that part. In fact I'm seeing a lot more people saying it should be equivalent to Sage Mode.

Equivalent to Rinnegan is what I am mostly seeing, which would mean equivalent to sage mode (if you consider the two equivalent).

The 3x or 2x or whatever limiters were not brought up at the time, so without said quantities, just how much the Tensaigan chakra cloak buffs was not set in stone, though it does not seem that the chakra mode itself was ever nerfed. Seems like mostly the techniques that the Tensaigan granted.

Well then at the very least we can say the multiplier is not decided and needs to be discussed.
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Camel

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 08:46:18 PM »

These varying multipliers with Tenseigan have always made me iffy to even go up against it, if the multiplier is equivalent to Sage Mode then I would have no problem playing with these sort of stacked players.

You might want draft up a poll and reach a consensus for the multipliers involved.

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Hazama

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2017, 08:49:38 PM »

These varying multipliers with Tenseigan have always made me iffy to even go up against it, if the multiplier is equivalent to Sage Mode then I would have no problem playing with these sort of stacked players.

You might want draft up a poll and reach a consensus for the multipliers involved.

Good idea, added a poll.

I don't like Tenseigan either, it's on my void list for a reason. I'm willing to fight it but only if it's a x3 since it is literally just Sage Mode but with even more abilities.
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Warren

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2017, 09:11:20 PM »

Or you could just skip the whole numbering thing because as you said, outside of like 1 or max 2 of the already extremely meager 'competitive' people all void tenseigan anyway, and outside of them nobody really gives a flying frack about what multipliers things have, so there's no point plastering further rules and limits and regulations yada yada over it than I already gave it.

Just apply the same thing every Rusaku's opponent has so far. The less OP stuff of yours he doesn't void, the closer to canon equivalent he can use. He voids a lot, most he gets is sage equivalent. Voids little to nothing, sage-enhanced kyuubi cloak.
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Hazama

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2017, 09:36:21 PM »

Or you could just skip the whole numbering thing because as you said, outside of like 1 or max 2 of the already extremely meager 'competitive' people all void tenseigan anyway, and outside of them nobody really gives a flying frack about what multipliers things have, so there's no point plastering further rules and limits and regulations yada yada over it than I already gave it.

Just apply the same thing every Rusaku's opponent has so far. The less OP stuff of yours he doesn't void, the closer to canon equivalent he can use. He voids a lot, most he gets is sage equivalent. Voids little to nothing, sage-enhanced kyuubi cloak.

Well I give a flying frack what the multiplier is because he's insisting that he get to use Tenseigan and that everyone agreed to a x6 multiplier so he shouldn't even have to discuss it. That is why I made the topic. That is something to consider I suppose but I would rather he just use a fair version than trade for the OP one.
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Timothy

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Re: Questions about Tenseigan
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 09:52:45 PM »

I still vote for sealing it away and making him cry like a discount fish <_<
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