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Author Topic: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles  (Read 9019 times)

Becquerel

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Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« on: February 24, 2017, 12:29:31 AM »

Alright, so I've been brainstorming about this for a little while seeing how much of a disaster the FFA was. It's been a thought in my head ever since I got here and saw the 'competitive' scene as well. I've tried a few times before to offer a way to fix it, but none of the ideas took off. Call me insane, but I want to try again. :)

This idea would be able to solve to arbitrary way we deal with Bijuu fights. For starters, we all know that the people involved have very powerful characters in order to deal with the 'meta' of this place. There's not much involved besides being the guy who writes the most on your character's wiki page of what they can do. Custom techniques make this even more difficult because people can create some very broken abilities when it comes to custom stuff. Also, look at something like competitive Pokemon. In those cases, the pokemon are usually at a set level with maxed whatever stats they could potentially have. So maybe giving everyone the same baseline stats could work too. So what I'm proposing is the ideas of dice rolls again, but in a much more simple way than I've previously tried implementing.

So the general consensus is that you get three actions per turn. My idea is that for every action, you would roll a die. (d20/d100/dwhatever is agreed on) These dice rolls would be made on a dice rolling website that kind of logs the dice rolls, that way it can't be abused. The next part is where I kind of am unsure about and have two potential ideas.
  • The responding player writes up their post, then rolls the dice for each of their actions. Depending on what they get as a result, they either go back and edit their post to describe their successful execution or failure to dodge.
  • The player rolls the dice while writing up their post, allowing them to adjust their post based on the dice rolls they got.

And I'm still not exactly sure on the numbers system that we can use. Basically, I was thinking if that you rolls within 3 above or below the opponent's number, it's basically a draw and would play out like it normally does (dodging, stalemate, etc). So this means that if I rolled a 10, a draw would be 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7.
If it's greater than three, but less than 7, then it would be a failure/success and the post would be made accordingly. So if I rolled a 10, their action would 'win' if they got 14, 15, 16 and 'lose' 6, 5, 4. A critical success/failure would be anything beyond that.

But to try and see if this is viable, I would be willing to have a mock bijuu battle with anyone. Only rules would be that we would have to use a non-main jonin or below canon character and can only utilize abilities that are from their moveset/canon and that you can have any bijuu you want but must utilize their canon abilities. Could I get some opinions on this idea? It should effectively get rid of the need to 'judge' bijuu fights.
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Chinote

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 12:51:02 AM »

Being forced to take a loss when you're making better written posts and have an ability that would negate your opponent's move or whatever because you rolled a 1 and they rolled a 20 is kind of bull.

What's the incentive to be a better writer when it's just a dice roll?
There is none.

Substituting skill for luck is not a solution.
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Becquerel

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 01:03:20 AM »

Being a 'better writer' doesn't really matter in these cases. It almost always comes down to who can do the most funky or overpowered ability and the opponent's ability to 'counter' it. Right now, we don't have any system besides having a judge read the posts and decide which one they like more. And just like in real life, luck can be a major factor. For example, if you're having a shootout with someone and manage to win because their gun jammed, would you attribute that win to luck or skill? In fact, if you go based off luck you kind of allow yourself to break free from that perfect mold that you have in mind and adapt to the situation at hand.

Not only that, but right now you have to face the facts that only a very small handful of people are even interested in the Bijuu in the first place. It requires you to make an OP character in order to stand up to other OP characters, meaning that an average player will likely never have the opportunity or desire to pursue them in their current state. There are players who choose to break the mold by not creating MadaraClone0183 as their character, but would be laughed at if they tried to approach the 'competitive' scene. This is just my idea of how to fix the system. If you have a potential solution, I'd really appreciate it if you posted it as well :)
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Nekomaru

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 01:12:48 AM »

So I kinda agree with you there Bec, if you need someone to test this with I'm up for it. Just a normal spar tho since I'm not a Bijuu holder.  :?:
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Becquerel

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 01:18:01 AM »

So I kinda agree with you there Bec, if you need someone to test this with I'm up for it. Just a normal spar tho since I'm not a Bijuu holder.  :?:

That's the thing though :) We would both pick a canon, non-main, jonin or below character and pick a random bijuu. Then we would have a bijuu battle as normal with those characters. (like Shino Aburame with 1 tails vs Choji with 3 tails)
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Nekomaru

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 01:19:16 AM »

Oh duh yea I get you now. I'm game for that, do you have a dice rolling site or do I need to hunt one down?
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Chinote

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 01:20:19 AM »

Depends, are you in a position to win and then their gun jams, effectively not being a factor? Or are you in a position to win but your gun jams and the other guys has a chance to basically stop digging their grave and kill you instead? In the first scenario, it doesn't matter. The outcome was already decided. In the second, you get absolutely screwed by an arbitrary system. I don't see anyone accepting that. I know I never would.

The solution in my mind has always been limits and enforcement. Why is the highest peak that only a single person ever managed to achieve the baseline for 'normal'? It's an absurd system that was created by a lack of rules and enforcement and it's, quite frankly, beyond saving without forcing every single person to give up nearly 95% of their power. No one's going to do that. This system is broken, but it's the one we're forced to deal with.

As far as fixing it, I've thought about it before, but I couldn't think of anything. Nothing that didn't seem like a sudden and hostile dictatorship that no one here would ever agree to because they're too afraid to give up their 20 page wikis of techniques and power ups. It's not even fun. I get that no one wants to not be the main character, but everyone can't be it either. If this place wasn't the last somewhat decent sized bastion of Naruto RP, I probably wouldn't still be here. But as long as it is, I'll be sticking around.  Probably. Life and whatnot. I dunno where this last paragraph went to be honest.
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Timothy

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 01:24:35 AM »

Ooooh, OOOOH!

How O'P' is Uematsu Tomi, tell me please :V
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Nekomaru

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 01:33:06 AM »

I don't really know how "OP" Tomi is and I pray I never find out.

But Bec I found a site that is pretty good.

https://rolz.org/

It logs the rolls and can have multiple people in a single room at once so even a judge can watch and see the rolls.
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Becquerel

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 01:35:56 AM »

Depends, are you in a position to win and then their gun jams, effectively not being a factor? Or are you in a position to win but your gun jams and the other guys has a chance to basically stop digging their grave and kill you instead? In the first scenario, it doesn't matter. The outcome was already decided. In the second, you get absolutely screwed by an arbitrary system. I don't see anyone accepting that. I know I never would.

The solution in my mind has always been limits and enforcement. Why is the highest peak that only a single person ever managed to achieve the baseline for 'normal'? It's an absurd system that was created by a lack of rules and enforcement and it's, quite frankly, beyond saving without forcing every single person to give up nearly 95% of their power. No one's going to do that. This system is broken, but it's the one we're forced to deal with.
Things aren't always so absolute. I'll let you know, I gave that scenario because I've been in it ;) And if it wasn't for luck, I probably wouldn't be chatting with you right now. I wasn't digging my grave, but trying to keep someone else out of theirs when a haji popped around the corner. That's why I've always made sure to have a beretta back home lol

Oh duh yea I get you now. I'm game for that, do you have a dice rolling site or do I need to hunt one down?
Kayenta and I set up a room a while back and it can still be used
https://rolz.org/dr?room=Shinobi%20Legends
Now we'd just have to decide on what system you'd like to use (out of 1 or 2, or if you can think up an alternative), what character, and what Bijuu :)

Ooooh, OOOOH!

How O'P' is Uematsu Tomi, tell me please :V
I wouldn't know lol But to be fair, I think a lot of things are OP. I'm used to the whole realm of DnD-style stuff not the extravagant anime-level powers that we have here.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 01:37:18 AM by Becquerel »
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Nekomaru

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 01:39:06 AM »

Probably out of two and I'm just going to use Shino Aburame with the Five Tails. If that is okay with you Bec.
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Chinote

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 01:48:09 AM »

Things aren't always so absolute. I'll let you know, I gave that scenario because I've been in it ;) And if it wasn't for luck, I probably wouldn't be chatting with you right now. I wasn't digging my grave, but trying to keep someone else out of theirs when a haji popped around the corner. That's why I've always made sure to have a beretta back home lol
That's not really a counter argument, but glad you're alive. I've also had guns drawn on me, but rather than Muslims, it's always been white people. It's fun being ambiguously light brown.
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Eric

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2017, 01:53:22 AM »

It's not the Overpoweredness that is the worst thing about biju battles. It's the cut-throat (literally) biju fighter culture and some, partially behind the scenes, drama that "ruined" the FFA. Generally it's the overall stress of being a jinchurikii that has made the affair so undesirable to many.

Those sorts of things can't be fixed with the roll of dice, buuuuut, in cases of deadlock (IE, two lightning release users karate chop each other with unlimited powah) the dice would be a way to break the one thing that SL players normally have alot of; Luck. I won't agree to a system that makes all hits/misses luck of the roll. I'm not a gamblin' boogeyman, and even using dice in situations where there is "maybe" involved for a judge seems fairer than blanket dice roll to decide your fate.
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Becquerel

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 01:56:43 AM »

Probably out of two and I'm just going to use Shino Aburame with the Five Tails. If that is okay with you Bec.

Sounds good. I'll go with Asuma and the Three Tails :) And out of the two, what do you mean? I meant this section

Quote
1.The responding player writes up their post, then rolls the dice for each of their actions. Depending on what they get as a result, they either go back and edit their post to describe their successful execution or failure to dodge.
2.The player rolls the dice while writing up their post, allowing them to adjust their post based on the dice rolls they got.

That's not really a counter argument, but glad you're alive. I've also had guns drawn on me, but rather than Muslims, it's always been white people. It's fun being ambiguously light brown.
Thankfully you've been safe as well. But I'm just trying to state that luck does play a role in things. And I think it'd be better to have a system based off of luck than no system at all.

And maybe that can be the third option, Eric. I know it might be a bit extreme to go completely off of luck-based rolls, but I don't mind trying it. It's all OOC anyway, so a loss isn't that bad.
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Nekomaru

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Re: Trying to 'fix' bijuu battles
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 01:58:57 AM »

Well where shall we test this out at Bec? Here on the forums or the chatroom of the dice site?
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