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[Teostra]

Get the hell out of here, Asadi! Sense make brain hurt!

=3
Also, maybe a system that would make them take a hit is why they don't like change so much.

[Chinote]

All three of you are missing the point.

He said RNG works for a an RNG-based card game.

I said yes, RNG works for things that are made to be based on RNG. If things that aren't made to be based on RNG are suddenly based on RNG, it doesn't work. I'm not comparing Call of Duty to SL. I'm using it as an example of something not rooted in RNG that doesn't work when you make it rooted in RNG.

I acknowledged that, like RP, even Call of Duty had RNG elements. But those elements aren't what defines who wins or loses.

He's the one that then went 'no, you're wrong, CoD does have RNG.' Which I never said it didn't. The point isn't that SL is comparable to CoD. The point is that neither are built on Luck as the sole factor for determining who wins or loses, and changing that makes both of them entirely different things and would undoubtedly piss off both of their users.

I'm not crucifying him for bringing it up, I'm crucifying him for going, "Thing you brought up? No, you're wrong. [Lists the same exact points without arguing anything.]"

[Teostra]

I haven't played it since modern warfare 2, but if we shoot at each other at the same time and my gun has higher accuracy than yours, that means I win. But instead, your shot hit me while mine missed. That's RNG. But this is SL and you should feel bad for bringing fish into this topic in the first place 

And for the record, I don't care if this was RNG based or not. Either way, the fights are OOC so you don't lose anything if you lose anyway.

Also for the record DoomRL (DRL now) is a RPG based off of Doom and it's actually really good. Not a shill but just saying nonrpgs can be pulled off as a rpg.

[Camel]

Gah. I hate repeating myself, but here we go:

I mean what is the sense of having a dice-roll function on the server, when you could use that same concept on here to make things a bit smoother in terms of zone fights? You do recall that this game is based off of the Legend of the Green Dragon, which happens to be a D&D-esque text-based roleplaying game, right?

Random possibility has always existed as a main element in a majority of RPGs. MMORPGs are no exception, because when I used to play zombie survival MMORPG. I experienced events that were based off that concept, one day I'll have a good day and salvage parts off of vehicles that would allow me to modify my weapons. Some days were bad and I would run into a hoard and have to board myself in a shelter for weeks on end until that herd of zombies either dispersed or I get killed by them and I would have to wait until another characters revives me.

Now like Teostra bluntly pointed out, this competitive scene has been reduced to a schoolyard fighting match. Adamant players that are faced with a possible lost will pull all of the stops to make sure that they come out on top, even if it means using loopholes to get their way. Now you tell me what is the fun in that?

[Asadi]

Gah. I hate repeating myself, but here we go:

Adamant players that are faced with a possible lost will pull all of the stops to make sure that they come out on top, even if it means using loopholes to get their way. Now you tell me what is the fun in that?

"I proved you wrong and won a fight against a stranger on the internet."

That really hurt to write...

[Chinote]

Teostra:
In the situation where you remove everything but RNG, yes, RNG will be the deciding factor. But yes, my fault for using an example of something that isn't solely based on luck to demonstrate how making it solely based on luck changes the game in a way that the majority likely isn't going to go with, but instead have everyone assume that I think RP should be like Call of Duty. I'll try not to use examples, I guess?

Camel:
I get what you're saying. But I wouldn't say that SL's RP scene is comparable to an MMORPG. It's not a coded set of RNG events. Your wins and loses aren't based solely on luck. The actual game of SL, LotGD, yes, it is an MMORPG which, while not relying solely on RNG, does rely on it, among other game elements. At this point, the RP and the game itself might as well not co-exist. Because besides most non-bijuu stuff taking place on the site, it really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.

I think you're also missing another point I made. I've voiced both in this thread and in my collective 11 or how-ever-many years I've been here that I absolutely hate the state of RP here and that it isn't fun in almost any way. The only reason I even challenged for Kurama is because of Athos' confidence that he'd win and the promise of a decent fight against the last person I know from NR that's still RPing. Because despite our arguments, he's one of the few people here I know I can have a good time RPing with. Even if he fully embraces this mess of 'system.'

I am not advocating for the system to stay as it is. I'm saying changing to to a luck-based system is the wrong direction.

[Vail]

So, the place I "come from" originally roleplay wise is Youtube (yeah, there was quite a lot of roleplay on youtube in the past when the layout was different). Among the circles I belonged to, there was a strong emphasis on writing ability, strategic thinking, and actual knowledge of whatever it is you're roleplaying in / as (for example: for Hand to Hand only fights, I employed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since that's what I have the most experience with IRL). These are the things that determined the winners in fights.

Yeah of course sometimes you had people who did the same crap people on SL did, but we typically just ignored them or declared them the loser, or left it to the public to determine who was right or wrong in the situation.

Now, I'm not here to sit on a high horse or anything, because I've taken part in the same kind of power playing that many other people on SL have because that seems to be the name of the game here.

However, many of the SL people I hang around now can attest to my recent attempts to fix not only biju battles (which I abhor), but the way fighting on SL is done in general. You can ask Jay, Athos, Tomi, Nekomaru, Ray, and many other people. I'm not an unreasonable guy. I have no qualms with admitting I'm wrong in a discussion or in a fight, which is even evidenced in my fight with Bocc for the 9-tails a while back.

I have a lot of abilities, yeah, but the way I've always fought is going into a battle with someone and sticking to a fairly small list of techniques and using those in different ways to get an upper hand on my opponent. Proper strategic works regardless of the "power level" of the person you're going against. You could be two regular humans or gods. The issue though, which has likely been pointed out by other people on this thread and many others, is that so many people aren't interested in flexing their intellectual / strategic muscles and having a good time. They just want to trash the other person, and are willing to use any underhanded tactic they can to do it.

Honestly, like some of the lines of argument I heard during the FFA were so downright fallacious that it actually made me angry. Implementing a system that forces people to cap their chakra or the number of kekkei genkei they have isn't going to fix the real problem of SL: many of the "upper tier" zoners are shameless, intellectually dishonest try-hards.

That has to change.

Why these people even compete for the Biju in the first place escapes me, since the boost in power that it'd give them won't really make a difference given how OP they already are. The tailed beasts should go to some of the newer or lower-tier people to encourage roleplaying, but the only problem is that the try-hards are going to come along and shit on those lower-tier people once they have them.

An analogy: you can't expect the populace to want to engage in politics when the vast majority of political power is held within the hands of a few oligarchs.

[Eric]

System wasn't always a mess. I remember when there wasn't a system. Fights for the beasts were fun and challenging without fighting over moves and people would take hits like champs.

Pride tends to blind people whether they like to admit it or not. But, it's an intangible item, not some certificate signed by Oliver with forest fight buffs.

Love, Asadi.

P.S.

Call of Duty: Recycled Warfare - coming to a store near you in 2017.

People had respect for each other in ways that they just don't have now. There wasn't an emulation of void tactics, the series wasn't nearly as bloated and lopsided, and in-game progress actually meant alot more to a lot more than now, so many other factors contributed to that "preivous" system. Some of it we can change, some of it we can't, this thread is about focusing on what we can change.

And for the record, recycling is very economical. Good for the environment too. Just look at the Sonic series and how NOT recycling key elements hurt it in many places.

Anyways, my two cents is that fixing biju battles requires a re-think, not just on the mechanics of the battles themselves, but, on the worth of the biju as a whole. Why are they kept around? For the competition? For the companionship? For the Roleplay that the fights themselves have nothing to do with anymore? What's the point in the biju being around still, and why are they still being fought for?

[Timothy]

So, the place I "come from" originally roleplay wise is Youtube (yeah, there was quite a lot of roleplay on youtube in the past when the layout was different). Among the circles I belonged to, there was a strong emphasis on writing ability, strategic thinking, and actual knowledge of whatever it is you're roleplaying in / as (for example: for Hand to Hand only fights, I employed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since that's what I have the most experience with IRL). These are the things that determined the winners in fights.

Yeah of course sometimes you had people who did the same crap people on SL did, but we typically just ignored them or declared them the loser, or left it to the public to determine who was right or wrong in the situation.

Now, I'm not here to sit on a high horse or anything, because I've taken part in the same kind of power playing that many other people on SL have because that seems to be the name of the game here.

However, many of the SL people I hang around now can attest to my recent attempts to fix not only biju battles (which I abhor), but the way fighting on SL is done in general. You can ask Jay, Athos, Tomi, Nekomaru, Ray, and many other people. I'm not an unreasonable guy. I have no qualms with admitting I'm wrong in a discussion or in a fight, which is even evidenced in my fight with Bocc for the 9-tails a while back.

I have a lot of abilities, yeah, but the way I've always fought is going into a battle with someone and sticking to a fairly small list of techniques and using those in different ways to get an upper hand on my opponent. Proper strategic works regardless of the "power level" of the person you're going against. You could be two regular humans or gods. The issue though, which has likely been pointed out by other people on this thread and many others, is that so many people aren't interested in flexing their intellectual / strategic muscles and having a good time. They just want to trash the other person, and are willing to use any underhanded tactic they can to do it.

Honestly, like some of the lines of argument I heard during the FFA were so downright fallacious that it actually made me angry. Implementing a system that forces people to cap their chakra or the number of kekkei genkei they have isn't going to fix the real problem of SL: many of the "upper tier" zoners are shameless, intellectually dishonest try-hards.

That has to change.

Why these people even compete for the Biju in the first place escapes me, since the boost in power that it'd give them won't really make a difference given how OP they already are. The tailed beasts should go to some of the newer or lower-tier people to encourage roleplaying, but the only problem is that the try-hards are going to come along and shit on those lower-tier people once they have them.

An analogy: you can't expect the populace to want to engage in politics when the vast majority of political power is held within the hands of a few oligarchs.

He does indeed try to be fair but can come off as a bit accusing if/when he misreads stuff but ultimately is quick to accept things when you clarify it, however. Tobias is overall fair to my experience. Just don't try to argue anything physics related against him unless you're personally studying it in college xD


The thing that gets me thus far is how players often seem to aim for that super speedy, faster than you can detect virtual auto hit. The irony being my character is the alleged naturally fastest ninja around. I've been reading up on various competitive fights and it seems to be a common theme.

It truly sucks the fun out of it for me.

[Camel]

I am not advocating for the system to stay as it is. I'm saying changing to to a luck-based system is the wrong direction.

I'll ask you another question. What is the best direction to go with? I mean, the ship is already sinking and the ones that stay behind are the ones that are adamant about changing the system, when it will impact the buff or passive ability that they earned.

The competitive roleplaying on here is basically a nuclear power plant in full meltdown and if nothing is done, the site itself will fall into obscurity just like LoB did. At least you have to admit that this broken system favors much of the upper echelon of Shinobi Legends, rather than the new players that try in vain to reach their goals.

I don't see why the adamant players about change, won't give Becquerel a chance to test out his methods. Because like Timothy said and I'll agree with him, the fun is getting sucked out of this game. And who do we blame when the inevitable occurs?

[Timothy]

I'm game for some RNG. Test it as Bec is currently doing, refine it, and so forth until we get to a point the majority can agree to such.

Personally, I'd imagine RNG would come into play when say the competitors both want to argue their speed will out do the other. Roll the dice, flip the coin or whatever, then continue from there. Which 'instant' attack will overcome what.

When it comes to the RNG of my example however, we should have a tie event where say the two events cancel each other out in a spark of glory instead of just arguing whose is more powerful than another/flipping the coin.

[Becquerel]

I also wanted to say that if anyone else wants to do a test fight with me, I don't mind at all I can do more than one at the same time. Plus, having multiple people fighting would allow for variation.

[Chinote]

I'll ask you another question. What is the best direction to go with?

Gah. I hate repeating myself, but here we go:

The solution in my mind has always been limits and enforcement.

We made it work for 8 years on NC/NR. Yea, we didn't have as many people as SL did at the time, but I'd say the current RP base is about the size of what we had, assuming there's maybe 2-3 people not on the forum for each person active on it. Maybe that's not a good guess. But our system is proven. But, like I said, short of doing what Ryan and Tai did at one point and forcing everyone to start over with new characters (which I was against at the time, but it ultimately ended up rejuvenating the scene), I don't see the Haves willing to part with their abominations and join the Have-Nots as equals.

The competitive roleplaying on here is basically a nuclear power plant in full meltdown and if nothing is done, the site itself will fall into obscurity just like LoB did. At least you have to admit that this broken system favors much of the upper echelon of Shinobi Legends, rather than the new players that try in vain to reach their goals.

I'm not disagreeing with you there.

I don't see why the adamant players about change, won't give Becquerel a chance to test out his methods. Because like Timothy said and I'll agree with him, the fun is getting sucked out of this game. And who do we blame when the inevitable occurs?

No one's stopping him from doing his test thing that he's already doing. No one is saying you can't design a system that makes dice rolls work functionally. It's turning something that should be about how you can utilize your abilities, strategize and write into a game of luck. It's not solving the problem that everyone is Madara's wet dream. It's ignoring it and trying to make a system that makes it even more acceptable to shove as much into a character as you can.

Because who cares if you have 1031231231411231231 KGs, Doujutsus and Hidden Techniques? All that matters is if you get lucky dice rolls.