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Author Topic: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?  (Read 3266 times)

Jestar

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Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« on: May 11, 2017, 02:49:38 AM »

I mean, most people become jinchurikii, and I wondered why, then I really read over and digested the summoning rules. I mean, they are so restrictive that there is hardly any advantage to summoning a biju over just using an ordinary summon with the same destructive power. Not to mention how relatively easy it is to dispel the jutsu. I say something be done to make summoning biju a little less troublesome by easing off the restrictions, like the one action per post while the biju is summoned and the chakra taxing and the chakra cost to summon.

The biju are powerful, but really, it is more efficient to just use a custom summon with similar abilities at this point, or just be a jinchurikii if you want to make any use of the beast power. Whats the point in even having that as an option but a way to have extra tailed beast slots with these rules?
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Timothy

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 09:45:35 AM »

Over all, I find it fair. Especially when 25% of your chakra gets drained to summon a large entity that has as much, if not more firepower and strength than you personally would. Tomi has to go full Susano'o or waste a good portion of his own chakra to summon a large entity or use large scale, chakra taxing techniques (depending on who is role-playing the tailed beast) which still might take heavy damage and ultimately become unusable to him to attempt to take on a freed tailed beast directly for example. Sacrificing 1/4th of your chakra is more than fair to put up such a powerful ally I think.
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Ѕhadow

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 10:32:46 AM »

Concerning those who are into getting bijuu; most already have infinite chakra.

Infinite chakra minus 1/4 of a chakra tax is still infinite. >>

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Jestar

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 12:34:49 PM »

Concerning those who are into getting bijuu; most already have infinite chakra.

Infinite chakra minus 1/4 of a chakra tax is still infinite. >>

But if infinite is 100%, you use 20% off the bat, and then you have a 5% tax while using it, constantly. Yeah, that's 16 whole turns of having a tailed beast out, if you dont have to also use any other chakra intensive technique the entire fight or have not already done so, basically the beginning of the fight. Bear in mind most tailed beasts have little or no self-defense against fuinjutsu other than massive chakra to try to overwhelm the technique. Tomi is not revealing his real strat, because there is no way he would ineffeciently try to use susanoo to defeat a tailed beast when he would use a barrage of fuinjutsu instead, especially since chakra transfer between summoner and beast is forbidden, but not beast and attacker. You throw in a powerful 20% genjutsu for non-chakra rod control of a beast for your opponent, who has unlimited chakra as Shadow puts it, and you lose control of your beast within 3 turns max. Since it will want to kill you immediately above all else, then you gotta fight the beast and your opponent who are now practically on the same side. If this was a non-issue then I am sure someone like Athos would use summon beasts more often than he does in OOC fights.
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Timothy

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 03:02:17 PM »

As much as Tomi is seal happy, to suppress an active tailed beast with the methods available to him still will drain a good portion of his chakra, due to the extensive amounts such techniques employ/a summoner isn't going to just let Tomi attempt his tailed beast suppression methods unmolested.
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Jestar

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 06:05:48 PM »

As much as Tomi is seal happy, to suppress an active tailed beast with the methods available to him still will drain a good portion of his chakra, due to the extensive amounts such techniques employ/a summoner isn't going to just let Tomi attempt his tailed beast suppression methods unmolested.

If Im reading the rules right, the summoner only has 1 action to use, to attack or defend. Multiple attacks are hard to deal with with only 1 action to counter with.
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Timothy

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 06:08:31 PM »

That indeed might be a bit much. Perhaps the normal 3 actions for summoner & summon combined, check the previous discussion. Threads
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Jestar

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 06:43:47 PM »

That indeed might be a bit much. Perhaps the normal 3 actions for summoner & summon combined, check the previous discussion. Threads

I dont think the summon rules have been touched much since. Cant find much on their talk except for a few red letter stuff they couldnt agree on early on.
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Rusaku

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 02:09:34 AM »

Yeah, Biju summons are super under powered. Look at any example available to you of someone summoning a beast, and it will have been dispatched within two rounds, or it's plainly obvious that the summoner was better off just not even using it in the first place. The cons outweigh any conceivable pro. Though I am not sure what exactly could be done that will make summoning them better.
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Jestar

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 03:23:18 AM »

If the biju summons are treated similar to Edo Tenseis, then I think we got a working plan on making them more viable. I mean, the tailed beasts dont just regenerate indefinitely and can be killed sure, but as far as power goes is it really more dangerous to fight a tailed beast than it is to fight an Edo?
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Eric

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 05:35:01 AM »

The summoning rules were made during a time when Madara using the 9-tails to attack Konoha (again) was around, and the full unhindered power of the beasts was demonstrated during the 4th Great Shinobi War.  Naturally the restrictions were put in place to reduce the chance of someone popping a tailed beast in the center of a village or something, and to decenticize the use of the summon method.

Especially with the hatred towards the host, I think you can see evidence that there was a real effort to make summoning tailed beasts not something you could do flippantly. Completely new audience and voting pool now though, so getting some of these rules changed is possible, if you're specific on what you want gone. I personally would not vote to completely get rid of chakra-based limitations, but without some sort of tax, it's a bit moot to lose 20% or even 50% of your chakra in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe for RP reasons the "hates summoner no matter what" part can be revised along with the action count available to summoners.
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JayJay

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 08:24:32 AM »

Maybe for RP reasons the "hates summoner no matter what" part can be revised along with the action count available to summoners.

This is what I has a problem. If a summoner had previously mastered a beast, shouldn't summoning that beast be as simple as summoning a regular summon? Also, minus the genjutsu control, since they've already built the friendship? It could also be interesting if the Biju could interact with others whilst summoned, do the whole village protector thing or something.
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Eric

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 06:04:59 PM »

Maybe for RP reasons the "hates summoner no matter what" part can be revised along with the action count available to summoners.

This is what I has a problem. If a summoner had previously mastered a beast, shouldn't summoning that beast be as simple as summoning a regular summon? Also, minus the genjutsu control, since they've already built the friendship? It could also be interesting if the Biju could interact with others whilst summoned, do the whole village protector thing or something.

Minus the genjutsu control and really there is no reason not to use a summoned biju at that point, as the risk of loss by theft can really be minimized then. You can augment the biju all you want (no splitting or anything else against the rules). If there is a mastery phase like with jinchurikii, then I suppose easing a few of these restrictions would be reasonable. But instant regain I think is a bad idea.

*Added note: Currently there are no rules against the biju liking OTHER people. The summoned biju is by the rules mandated to hate its summoner.

===============================

Summons Biju rule proposal 5 states that summoned biju must have a physical location in the real world; it cannot be in a pocket dimension while not summoned. This does not mean that the beast cannot be transported to a pocket dimension if it has been summoned in battle.

The point of this rule was to encourage people to have their summon tailed beasts someplace other than a pocket dimension, and reduce the chance of the summoner dying and leaving the beast in a special pocket dimension that only he or she can get to.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 03:08:08 AM by Eric »
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Dart Terumī

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2017, 03:26:45 AM »

Maybe for RP reasons the "hates summoner no matter what" part can be revised along with the action count available to summoners.

This is what I has a problem. If a summoner had previously mastered a beast, shouldn't summoning that beast be as simple as summoning a regular summon? Also, minus the genjutsu control, since they've already built the friendship? It could also be interesting if the Biju could interact with others whilst summoned, do the whole village protector thing or something.

Minus the genjutsu control and really there is no reason not to use a summoned biju at that point, as the risk of loss by theft can really be minimized then. You can augment the biju all you want (no splitting or anything else against the rules). If there is a mastery phase like with jinchurikii, then I suppose easing a few of these restrictions would be reasonable. But instant regain I think is a bad idea.

*Added note: Currently there are no rules against the biju liking OTHER people. The summoned biju is by the rules mandated to hate its summoner.

===============================

Summons Biju rule proposal 5 states that summoned biju must have a physical location in the real world; it cannot be in a pocket dimension while not summoned. This does not mean that the beast cannot be transported to a pocket dimension if it has been summoned in battle.

The point of this rule was to encourage people to have their summon tailed beasts someplace other than a pocket dimension, and reduce the chance of the summoner dying and leaving the beast in a special pocket dimension that only he or she can get to.



So would the location then be the choice of the summoner? Or can there be a set locale that's standard for everyone?
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Eric

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Re: Can the summons Biju rules be looked at?
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2017, 07:40:57 AM »

As it is now the location would be up to the summoner. I can't imagine what standard location would work for this sort of thin.
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