Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Bijuu Arena => Topic started by: KayentaMoenkopi on January 14, 2015, 06:10:16 PM
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I know this is going to start a storm...
I really am just asking and hoping that this can be reasonably dealt with.
I do not believe the selling of Bijuu should be permitted.
I would ask Bocchiere just to pick someone to host the kyuubi and remove that from the sale of Bocchiere the account.
You do host the bijuu....it is yours to deal with properly.
but ultimately bijuu are not your possessions but an RP perk of this game and therefor belonging to the community.
IT is no different than if as a kazekage I should try to sell my village for some quick cash.
Please keep this topic respectful and limit your replies to one well reasoned and respectful comment pertinent to the issue at hand.
the first instance of character bashing ...I will lock it and all chance to resolve this issue reasonably will be removed with the GMs just getting together and deciding for everyone.
I hope this can be deal with in a civil manner.
I would not bring it up if I was not so strongly opposed to it in an ethical sense.
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This isn't the first time a Bijuu has been sold with an account so the person selling the account gets more money.
I don't see anything wrong with the current situation, honestly. So long as whoever buys the account and Kyuubi follows the Bijuu Rules and doesn't go around trying to break them.
If someone, err... Inexperienced, let's say, buys the account and the Kyuubi 'seems' lost to the world.. Then we'll do what we always do and make a Forum Topic to strip said person.
Besides that, I don't see anything wrong. Or is it just because it's the Kyuubi? Bijuu have been sold before, multiple times, so I don't think this is any different.
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I dunno of ethics but wasn't there something in the rules recently of this? That if you quit the beast goes to either first challenger or the clan. Alternatively if there's neither, you pick who to pass it to.
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If that's the case, I think that's just silly. As a Jinchuuriki, if I quit, I'd want to put it where I want. If there is no one in my clan capable of holding a beast, and I have no challenger, THEN I get to choose? I think you should choose one of the three, not be forced to do one and not able to do the other... But, that's another issue, not this one.
I still think what's happening is fine. I mean, a Bijuu is a tool, more or less. I also disagree with Bijuu not being your 'possession' but belonging to the community. But that's also my personal opinion and this isn't the topic for such o.o
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Hazama and Warren both make valid points, and since this is based on personal opinions i'll go ahead and give my own. Keeping it strictly professional, a bijuu is indeed a possession to be passed around, or hoarded; a rental if you will. If Bocc wishes to sell his, it is just another way to lay claim to the beast for a person who may not have wished to fight bocc. However, I don't believe that in this process he should be able to deny challenges for it either, until it's bought. I don't know if he is truly quitting considering he said in the mission hq that he's done with serious RP which implies that he'll go into Raifudo lurk mode. As of my Nibi extraction, i'm not brushed up with the rules of bijuu, which I should change in the near future, but I must say that there isn't any rule against sale of the bijuu to my knowledge.
Now personally, it should be a rule against it. Buying a bijuu simply isn't...traditional, for lack of a better term. Bijuu are trophies in a sense that should be earned, and placing monetary value on them cheapens that, also insulting anyone who's gone through the crucible of having to fight for one, (which on average a bijuu battle lasts for say a month+). With some fights, they are grueling experiences, and for some they are decent challenges. Having to fight Raku/Bocc, it was a long fight, but it was good in general so I can't personally speak on behalf of those who went through the awful but the point is still there. This should be addressed promptly.
If one has to choose who it goes to, then that inheritor gets the challenge queue, and all, though it's also unfair for a challenger to have to wait 2 more weeks while getting played in a game of monkey in the middle.
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I wouldn't see it as a purchase of something necessarily, but instead a temporary rent. By agreeing to do so, they understand that their $150 rent fee can be wasted by someone yoinking the beast from right under their nose. Otherwise it's their money to spend ya know?
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The thing is, that once you enter into a monetary transaction, then it becomes property subject to ownership laws. A bill of sale, a legal right, title.
As such they cannot be forced to abide by anyone's rules over it and they would be protected by property damage and theft laws. They never have to accept challenges for ownership again. And you cannot just start a thread and strip them of their property...that is called theft.
you take this RP perk and turn it into an item of substance with monetary value in a real world setting subject to the laws and rights associated with the ownership of property and possessions.
I can think of no more ridiculous method of taking SL to bigger and better heights of the absurd than this.
I don't believe any sort of legal ramifications are relevant here, considering that the Bijuu is...well...it's made up creature with no real substance besides words on a page. I don't believe anyone would think that just because they paid money for an RP item that the item is going to stay with them forever ESPECIALLY when there are already rules about how you have to take challenges and whatnot. (Which makes buying these things incredibly dumb)
I don't believe that the list of challengers should be cast aside just because the current holder wishes to back out of the RP though. Don't we have rules for what happens to inactive players to their Bijuu? Why not just follow those in this instance? (I'm not sure if it's giving it to the next challenger or giving it back to the village, I don't keep up with the bijuu rules)
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Tsuyo made the point I just was about to type up. It's like...
Kayenta, you have a phone, right? You pay a monthly bill but if you stop paying for a month, then your phone gets shut off.
That's how I see this. Someone buys the account but the Bijuu is like a phone. They follow the rules, they get to keep it. They try to break the rules and things of the same nature, then it gets taken away.
Well, yeah. That's how I feel. Maybe I'm just too lighthearted or something, but I really don't see anything wrong with this. I mean, you'd actually be harming Bocchiere and his selling of his account because, let's be real, that's one of the big sellers for his account. I also don't think that's fair.
Also, side note, Bocchiere has no current challengers. As Tsuyo mentioned, selling the Bijuu with the account makes it so someone who didn't want to fight Bocchiere can get it. It also puts the beast back into full rotation.
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Oh my god.
I'm quitting rp to not have to deal with this garbage and even now you want to drag me back into it.
Everyone who cares to, put your name forward and I'll add you to my challenger list, I'll fight all of you simultaneously. When you're all dead I'll give the bijuu to the person who bought the Bocchiere account, right over your dead bodies. If there are no challengers I can give the bijuu to whoever I want, whenever I want.
Some come on, step right up. Who else refuses to let me quit this godforsaken game in peace? Put your name forward, lose all my respect and be brutally murdered! All this and more can be yours absolutely FREE!!!!
So there you go, the bijuu's not for sale, it's a free hospitality gift to whoever buys the account. Christ almighty.
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Kayenta, honestly, I fail to see why you are bringing this up constantly o.o Never when a Bijuu has been sold has this been an issue. This 'legal' stuff. When someone buys a Bijuu, they understand the rules that come with it.
Never before has someone tried to turn around and say 'I paid for this Bijuu, therefore I can break the rules!'. Honestly, you seem to be the only one concerned about that. This isn't the first Bijuu that'd be sold on SL and it surely won't be the last, no matter how many kicking and screaming fits the Forum has. And I don't say that as an attack xD People do what they want, regardless of what the forums say sometime, you know?
This topic will be forgotten in a few months, maybe a year, and then this whole conversation will probably be had again o.o I feel like this was a pointless thing to, well, point out. All it accomplished was pissing off Bocch for no reason.
I mean, Bocchiere is a host. And, by your logic, doesn't own it. So, if he sells it, the person buying it doesn't own it magically. But, then again, what Bocchiere said. >>; Guess that just wraps all this up.
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All it accomplished was pissing off Bocch for no reason.
Yeah, pretty much. Glad we managed to squeak one more in. Please lock this topic now.
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I actually laughed at this topic. C'mon not one person is going to sue the game because they bought LITERALLY NOTHING. It's not even considered Data. It's words that some other person wrote. In order for it to become legal they have to buy the rights to the Nine tails and I'm sorry, you might have to go to Kishi for that.
Let the man quit, let the man give his Bijuu to whomever he wants.
This was the most pointless thread I have seen in a minute.
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This is the most hilarious thread I've seen, and the fact that it was even humored is even more lol worthy.
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No need for slandering. If anything it should be a positive thing to know nobody has any stupid ideas about this business.
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I know this is going to start a storm...
I really am just asking and hoping that this can be reasonably dealt with.
I do not believe the selling of Bijuu should be permitted.
I would ask Bocchiere just to pick someone to host the kyuubi and remove that from the sale of Bocchiere the account.
You do host the bijuu....it is yours to deal with properly.
but ultimately bijuu are not your possessions but an RP perk of this game and therefor belonging to the community.
IT is no different than if as a kazekage I should try to sell my village for some quick cash.
Please keep this topic respectful and limit your replies to one well reasoned and respectful comment pertinent to the issue at hand.
the first instance of character bashing ...I will lock it and all chance to resolve this issue reasonably will be removed with the GMs just getting together and deciding for everyone.
I hope this can be deal with in a civil manner.
I would not bring it up if I was not so strongly opposed to it in an ethical sense.
Well, would bought accounts also need to be considered then? I mean, the principle is similar. For the record, these words have to be stored on a server somewhere and transmitted to all who come up, so in a way, it is data at the least. But I digress.
I suppose I cannot deny that Bocc is about to head out the door at this stage, and while I'm sorry to see him go, I feel that buying the tailed beast for real money, like buying acounts for real money, is a silly thing to begin with. Even moreso since, as has been mentioned before, the beast can be taken away by the host being defeated or stripped. I will not go into all of the legal-like stuff that would point out how even if the biju were to be considered property upon purchase the fine print would cause the buyer to have to abide by the law of the realm in handling it.
As far as I'm concerned, if there is a buyer and Bocc can get a few bucks for his ordeal, then more power to him. There was an outcry in Konoha when Tomi supposedly did some Runescape dealings with his account, but that's history.
Speaking for myself, I would rather Bocc sell the tailed beast to the higher bidder than there be a fuss over who is going to get it (as if there were no rules that could cover it. Well, okay, the "official" rules have not had an amendment since September of last year, but this kind of thing has been brought up before) as long as it doesn't violate the site rules.
In conclusion, as long as the buyer follows the fine and not so fine print and dots their name on the paypal line while following site rules, I say let the bidding begin. Heck, if I could find someone to buy all of the tailed beasts and remove them from play altogether so that we don't have to worry about them anymore, then I would be the first to clap my hands slowly for all its worth.
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Tell you guys what, I recently got a raise and promotion at work; meaning I have a little extra money laying around for my own purpose of spending it on whatever. :twisted:
I'll try to buy the accounts, including the one that has Kyuubi and if I do win it... (Knock on wood)
I'll re-distribute it to the proper users or simply give it away to some random Kage.
I can't make any promises that I'll be able to do these things with Kyuubi, considering that I don't know if any challengers were still for it.
We'll just see into the bidding ends and hopefully this will settle this whole situation down. :cool:
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I'm staying away from this, just an FYI
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My two cents...
Is Kyuubi linked to the actual person or the character?
The answer, so there is not another topic in which it takes 10 pages for an answer, seems to be the character- obvious, yes?
Alright. If the character is sold, well, that Kyuubi is still linked with the character.
I'm not going to discuss the so called "ethics" as that is in itself a different discussion. Having that discussion, we can uncover how the "ethics" of many things have been "violated". Point being, everyone's ethics is different. And, I don't think it is necessary to discuss for this issue.
What option solves this issue the quickest? =)
Again, Kyuubi is *linked* to the character. That is the fundamental point...
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My two cents...
Is Kyuubi linked to the actual person or the character?
The answer, so there is not another topic in which it takes 10 pages for an answer, seems to be the character- obvious, yes?
Alright. If the character is sold, well, that Kyuubi is still linked with the character.
I'm not going to discuss the so called "ethics" as that is in itself a different discussion. Having that discussion, we can uncover how the "ethics" of many things have been "violated". Point being, everyone's ethics is different. And, I don't think it is necessary to discuss for this issue.
What option solves this issue the quickest? =)
Again, Kyuubi is *linked* to the character. That is the fundamental point...
I'm not selling the character. You get that account and the IC claims in the form of the actual items themselves or scrolls in which to learn the techniques. You also get the 9 tails. It's just a take over the world starter set.
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that's very nice of you Kamui but the situation has been resovled.
the only thing left is for people to make their nasty comments about me...
figured to let everyone get their fill of that before locking the thread.
wouldn't want to leave out anyone I notified about this situation to miss out, right?
but cause it is the most lol-worthy thing in the world to think someone who buys something might actually think they own it and therefore are the only one to have say over it.
but I am just an idiot who thinks that money exchanging hands confers ownership and all that it means.
Of course, how dull witted of me not to realize that even though this future buyer has paid money for it that this delightful community would just mob him and take what he rightfully owns if they don't like the way he plays with his own purchases.
I forgot where I was for a moment.
please forgive my very odd sense of...
well everything, right?
Let's not go there. As you said, the biggest part of the issue has been resolved more or less.
My two cents...
Is Kyuubi linked to the actual person or the character?
The answer, so there is not another topic in which it takes 10 pages for an answer, seems to be the character- obvious, yes?
Alright. If the character is sold, well, that Kyuubi is still linked with the character.
I'm not going to discuss the so called "ethics" as that is in itself a different discussion. Having that discussion, we can uncover how the "ethics" of many things have been "violated". Point being, everyone's ethics is different. And, I don't think it is necessary to discuss for this issue.
What option solves this issue the quickest? =)
Again, Kyuubi is *linked* to the character. That is the fundamental point...
I'm not selling the character. You get that account and the IC claims in the form of the actual items themselves or scrolls in which to learn the techniques. You also get the 9 tails. It's just a take over the world starter set.
So everything from your character except the character himself? Well shoot, they are pretty much paying for someone to human path you and take the 9-tails, with any resets on your account thrown in as an added bonus lol.
Tell you guys what, I recently got a raise and promotion at work; meaning I have a little extra money laying around for my own purpose of spending it on whatever. :twisted:
I'll try to buy the accounts, including the one that has Kyuubi and if I do win it... (Knock on wood)
I'll re-distribute it to the proper users or simply give it away to some random Kage.
I can't make any promises that I'll be able to do these things with Kyuubi, considering that I don't know if any challengers were still for it.
We'll just see into the bidding ends and hopefully this will settle this whole situation down. :cool:
We don't need another redistribution Kamui, but thank you for the offer. And congrats.
My two cents...
Is Kyuubi linked to the actual person or the character?
The answer, so there is not another topic in which it takes 10 pages for an answer, seems to be the character- obvious, yes?
Alright. If the character is sold, well, that Kyuubi is still linked with the character.
I'm not going to discuss the so called "ethics" as that is in itself a different discussion. Having that discussion, we can uncover how the "ethics" of many things have been "violated". Point being, everyone's ethics is different. And, I don't think it is necessary to discuss for this issue.
What option solves this issue the quickest? =)
Again, Kyuubi is *linked* to the character. That is the fundamental point...
Kyuubi, as is being sold and as proof by Bocc's post, will not be sold along with the character, only all of the character's, well, stuff. Traditionally tailed beasts have been linked to characters and not players, but since Bocc's character is not also being sold off (merely the account, the resets, and IC claims apparently) then one of the most essential things to the character identity-wise, the history and personality, is being left out of the sale. Meaning that, the 9-tails is moreso linked to the player than the character in this particular situation.