Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Genesis on October 17, 2015, 08:32:26 PM
-
Preamble
During the course of Shinobi Legends’ history, the site has been a source of happiness and many memories. Despite many players finding themselves wasting hours upon end in this domain, Shinobi Legends is not without faults. One of those faults being the “hands-off” approach for the roleplay side of SL from the owner of the said domain, for whatever intention. This leads many roleplayers to roleplay by their own set of rules; each individual, or group, creating their own “Rules of Roleplay”.
The Problem
While there is nothing inherently wrong with a person or party creating their own rules, altercations occur when two (or more) roleplayers, each guided by different rules, interact with each other. In the plethora of situations that have occurred throughout the history of SL, many have argued, for or against, several interpretations of each person’s “Rules of Roleplay”.
While a few of these interpretations may have prevailed over others during the years, the lack of any real enforcement has reduced the caliber of such rules to mere “suggestions”. Even when the overwhelming majority collectively agrees to a set of rules on a certain subject, the stubbornness and competitiveness of the minority, choosing not to abide by the rules proposed forth, strips the proposed rules of any true merit.
The Proposal
The following proposal seeks to fix the root of the problem by establishing a common “rules of roleplay”. Since the authors of this document cannot enforce anything in the domain of SL, The Official Cannon Storyline, (OCS from here on out), is an ‘OPT-IN’ storyline/reality. Those who choose to opt-in subjugate themselves to the fundamental principles or established precedents set by the constitution of OCS (which has to be made).
OCS, despite its pretentious name, is an alternative reality within SL. Within this reality, whoever roleplays does so by a standard; a standard that is enforced by an elected moderation staff that is appointed by the players, for the players.
Simply put, all rules are made and evaluated by the community. The sole job of the moderation staff is to enforce the rules made by the community. If there ever comes a time where a moderator’s interpretation of a rule deviates from the original intent of the rule-makers (the community), or another malicious reason, it is the duty of the community to impeach and replace the offending moderator.
While OCS is a separate reality from the ‘standard’ reality, which is the current SL, OCS does not intend to create two different worlds within the same domain. Instead, OCS seeks to mesh both realties while keeping its own core pillars intact. In the case of an OCS party interacting with another party that does not fall under OCS’ jurisdiction, the interaction will be considered non-canonical, or simply put, ‘filler’. By doing so, all roleplayers of SL can roleplay without worrying about infringing realties.
Conclusion
All principles and precedents, or rules, of OCS will not be set by this document, but rather by a Constitution set by the community of those who choose to opt in. This document is rather a proposal to create a more habitable roleplay environment wherein all can participate without worrying about the neglect of fundamental principles and established precedents.
Authored by Genesis & Rusaku
-
Hey! So this OCS. This thread will be used to gauge interest.
So tell us, do you like this idea? Or, maybe you don't like this idea. Would you Opt-in? Would you not opt-in? Tell us why this is good, or tell us why this sucks.
-
So you're making your own SL, but with blackjack and hookers
-
So you're making your own SL, but with blackjack and hookers
Bluntly, yeah. But we're going make it so both worlds mesh.
-
I don't like it. It smacks of big brother in a Brave New World kind of way to me. I am not a fan of this nor of one day being relegated to 'filler' status on a site I have taken enjoyment from for 8-9 years now simply because the infighting of late has gotten to ridiculous proportions. As stated in the editing of the wikia thread...
When i first started on SL there were people who tried to prevent me from being there in Suna and complained about me using suiton. I thought it was ridiculous to permit others to dictate that I could not create a character who could find water in the desert to use, especially in Suna which could not exist without a source of water beneath it. And so years of RP sprang from my refusal to be dictated to. Kay found water in the desert and many have rp'd there in the cavern and at its lake. RP stemming from the ancient civilization of the Al-Kahtar continues to this day.
My point is this, when you restrict others you shut the door on creativity based on the narrow view of a few people while others may find it quite suitable and derive years of pleasure from those who said yes, why not? Let's do it!
Additionally, I scoff at the notion of a majority every time it is used here on the forum. May I remind you all once again, we are the minority that the majority shuns participating in our 'discussions' here due to lack of interest in what we say, how we say it, and generally what we think. I presume this is based on a feeling of independence and freedom from oppression. And certainly from a lack of desire in being ridiculed and treated like trash. And perhaps this offends and seems inflammatory? Well I actually saw it suggested that people who have not been vocal here should crawl back under whatever rock it was they peeked out from and continue to stay silent.
Were something like this to happen? I would say that not one person who has been consistently vocal on the forum would be deserving of such a position of responsibility due to having had a hand in creating such a horrible rep for the forum discussions. The popular vote does not work when it comes to aptitude and competence for a particular job. I think our presidential elections should have drilled that fact into our heads by now.
I truly believe if you wish to nail the coffin shut on SL that this OCS and future constitution would be a great first step.
-
I think I heard about something else that tried this as a separate forum but I heard all it did was ostracize a lot of players. I feel let people do whatever they want, and that's what I'll try to do when I interact with people :) If something happens that I don't like or agree with, I'll ask them personally.
-
The intention of this is so we can have an actual set of rules that people cannot argue, or claim are simple suggestions. We are not trying to exclude anyone from RP, in any facet. The "Filler" Label is using terminology that people are familiar with, and can easily understand when used in such context.
An example might be of use here.
Yujo and Kage with their 8 tails debacle. If say Kage were to join the Cannon, and Yujo did not, we would still accept Yujo as having a version of the beast. Though, instead of recognizing it as a legitimate beast, we look at is as a knock off.
What i mean by that is Yujo can still use his version of the beast in our RP, but we will rationalize it as a pseudo beast, and the entire RP will be looked at as "Optional" To include in our characters story. Much like how Utakata's interaction with Naruto was a filler storyline, yet in the cannon amine they addressed their previous meeting as if it actually happened.
We do not wish to exclude anyone from being able to RP here.
-
Well, in that respect it sounds better. So basically instead of the "it's my way or the highway" I heard the last thing was about, this would be more like, "It's our way or you can take this detour"?
Though, most of these issues that we seem to have revolve around Bijuu, and how about we just not beat about the bush about it?
Why not we do what we have now with the bijuu system we're using for the 'official' bijuu list. But, if someone else wants one they could just have a psuedo-bijuu? Heck, I've RP'd just fine with an Academy Student that said they escaped from Orochimaru but had a fake bijuu implanted in him (wasn't there an anime filler with that plot?).
But yeah, if some people want to have a 'canon' SL story, I don't mind. Maybe I'll join, maybe I wont. And if we'll have a 'cannon' story, I'll be sure to overpower everyone with a 10,000 gun volley lol
-
Well, in that respect it sounds better. So basically instead of the "it's my way or the highway" I heard the last thing was about, this would be more like, "It's our way or you can take this detour"?
Though, most of these issues that we seem to have revolve around Bijuu, and how about we just not beat about the bush about it?
Why not we do what we have now with the bijuu system we're using for the 'official' bijuu list. But, if someone else wants one they could just have a psuedo-bijuu? Heck, I've RP'd just fine with an Academy Student that said they escaped from Orochimaru but had a fake bijuu implanted in him (wasn't there an anime filler with that plot?).
But yeah, if some people want to have a 'canon' SL story, I don't mind. Maybe I'll join, maybe I wont. And if we'll have a 'cannon' story, I'll be sure to overpower everyone with a 10,000 gun volley lol
We don't want the mods to be police snooping over the place and cracking down on stuff that are against the rules. That's not what this is.
The mods will only act when a player brings an issue to a mod, or that's how I see it. We didn't even make the rules yet, my intention to make this very unobtrusive.
Basically, we just want some frkn rules man. There's no order in this current chaos.
-
we just want some frkn rules man. There's no order in this current chaos.
Good luck trying to convince people to abide of you guys' rules.
-
we just want some frkn rules man. There's no order in this current chaos.
Good luck trying to convince people to abide of you guys' rules.
It's Opt-in. The player knows what they're getting into. Also, the community makes the rules, so hopefully they abide by their own rules.
-
A majority of the rules should probably stay how they were as well. What we would really be focusing on are the problem areas like Biju. Some other suggestions I have are things that people seems to get confused like action limits when it comes to clones and Summons. Some people say they get their own set of actions, others say they need to be shared with the users. If something like this were to pass, we would sit down and iron out the loopholes.
Like we have said, if people join, they are choosing to abide by the rules.
-
Pretty much making the multiverse thing.
I agree. Make your own rules and have people opt in. I already have a fair idea of who will be in this "verse". I say go for it. No harm in trying it out, if it works you rp with people who have the same set of rules. If it fails, you're right back where you started.
SL started off split, time to go back
-
So then you're just taking what we've been doing all this time and giving it a name to go along with the new group you're making. Trying to make it official. Everyone already has lines they will and will not cross. I'll rp with pretty much anything within the realm of Naruto, but don't like to do vampires and such (I had Shadow the Hedgehog come up to me once and want to combine power of the Tailed Beasts with the Chaos Emeralds, hoo boy).
Anyway, while I give you guys the A+ for effort and for laying this all out, what really would this do? I mean we have a workshop that's supposed to fix the bijuu rules and what other complications were there? Was dissension between Bunshin action limits just going over my head this whole time? If you could give a few more examples of other unclear non-bijuu rules I'd appreciate it.
I guess in short, the real question is how is this not just SLS again? You have your own set of rules that need to be abided by to be in the group and you'll redact or edit characters you interact with that don't follow those rules.
That's great but that's not really any different than now. There's a set of rules you have (or will have in this case) that will make everything great if they're followed and/or not abused and no real power beyond "We won't play with you." to enforce them. Which is no different than the bijuu rules.
I guess it's worth seeing what rules will be made. Maybe they'll be birthed from the mouth of God and be perfect in every way and we'll all want to follow them and this will solve everything. I would think its more likely that will not happen though.
Why the 180? Like it was mentioned Keito and Genny and such have been going around saying no one is going to follow rules we make, no one can get along, and then you guys make a topic going "We're going to make new rules for people to follow so everyone can get along." and that's great but it's kinda hilarious. What brought the change about?
-
@Bocc: The rules made in the current SL are useless. Why? There's no one to enforce those rules. What's going to happen to someone who disobeys that rule? Nothing.
In this verse, rules will mean something because someone is enforcing it.
-
I just figured a proactive approach would be better than sitting back and complaining.
-
@Bocc: The rules made in the current SL are useless. Why? There's no one to enforce those rules. What's going to happen to someone who disobeys that rule? Nothing.
In this verse, rules will mean something because someone is enforcing it.
Unless you're making a whole new site like Shadow has been trying to I don't see how. That is why I mentioned, "That's great but that's not really any different than now. There's a set of rules you have (or will have in this case) that will make everything great if they're followed and/or not abused and no real power beyond "We won't play with you." to enforce them. Which is no different than the bijuu rules."
How is that any different than the bijuu rules no one wants to follow or everyone takes advantage of? "Oh well we won't rp with them then." Ok but that's what we do now. We take their bijuu and say they won't be acknowledged as Jinchuriki anymore. That doesn't stop people from abusing and/or breaking the rules.
@Rusaku
Like I mentioned then. List what other rules you think need to be cleared up. Let's fix it up and see if anyone else thinks fixing needs to be done. Like I said I'm not clear on what non-bijuu rules you think need to be changed, it can't be just the Bunshin making a new universe for that would be kinda over the top.
-
You may wish to stop to consider what exactly you're trying to do here for a moment.
First off if you're looking to just make a more generalized set of rules like a guide for more formal fights, general village workings, bijuu crap etc, then forget about the whole 'storyline' thing and line out what exactly you plan to put into it. If its to be an uniform thing anybody can check out, think about what a new person could ask about and have trouble with, not what's currently pissing you off personally, and try put its contents in sensible order.
If its instead meant to be a storyline, history or whatever you wish to call it, forget about the rules and get a new name like general SL history or some such. SL is far from perfect canon, it has same roots but it includes a whole lot of filler and non-naruto elements as well, no matter whether one likes it or not, so the 'official' route is not going to work. Needless to say even if you don't want to exclude anyone, to try nail down one and only "official" history, saying this is the one and only true thing that happened, is exactly that; you're basically saying only you are right, nobody else counts, even if you try word it nicely.
For storyline what you'll want to do, is include ONLY the details everyone can agree on. For example, origin of chakra; shinju happens, fruit eaten by kaguya, goes nuts, sealed by her kids, they spread chakra out into the world. Simple enough.
And then you'll leave the rest open, excludes nobody and leaves things far richer than trying to iron out every goddamn detail. For example the al-kahtar from suna? It's not canon so people can ignore it if they so wish, but if they do wish to acknowledge it then it opens an entire new historical period for people that predates even kaguya's arrival.
Short and simple? Make just a base for people, say here's what we know for certain happened, and anything not on here is up to your own interpretation. Its kind of like giving people the base game, and letting them pick their own expansions to it.
-
@Bocc: The rules made in the current SL are useless. Why? There's no one to enforce those rules. What's going to happen to someone who disobeys that rule? Nothing.
In this verse, rules will mean something because someone is enforcing it.
Unless you're making a whole new site like Shadow has been trying to I don't see how. That is why I mentioned, "That's great but that's not really any different than now. There's a set of rules you have (or will have in this case) that will make everything great if they're followed and/or not abused and no real power beyond "We won't play with you." to enforce them. Which is no different than the bijuu rules."
How is that any different than the bijuu rules no one wants to follow or everyone takes advantage of? "Oh well we won't rp with them then." Ok but that's what we do now. We take their bijuu and say they won't be acknowledged as Jinchuriki anymore. That doesn't stop people from abusing and/or breaking the rules.
The difference is that the roleplayer is opting-in. They're allowing themselves to fall under the law. Sure, if they don't obey it, then the mods will act justly, but it's better than arguing to the point of now return.
We're doing something different, because what's going on now isn't clearly working.
You may wish to stop to consider what exactly you're trying to do here for a moment.
First off if you're looking to just make a more generalized set of rules like a guide for more formal fights, general village workings, bijuu crap etc, then forget about the whole 'storyline' thing and line out what exactly you plan to put into it. If its to be an uniform thing anybody can check out, think about what a new person could ask about and have trouble with, not what's currently pissing you off personally, and try put its contents in sensible order.
If its instead meant to be a storyline, history or whatever you wish to call it, forget about the rules and get a new name like general SL history or some such. SL is far from perfect canon, it has same roots but it includes a whole lot of filler and non-naruto elements as well, no matter whether one likes it or not, so the 'official' route is not going to work. Needless to say even if you don't want to exclude anyone, to try nail down one and only "official" history, saying this is the one and only true thing that happened, is exactly that; you're basically saying only you are right, nobody else counts, even if you try word it nicely.
For storyline what you'll want to do, is include ONLY the details everyone can agree on. For example, origin of chakra; shinju happens, fruit eaten by kaguya, goes nuts, sealed by her kids, they spread chakra out into the world. Simple enough.
And then you'll leave the rest open, excludes nobody and leaves things far richer than trying to iron out every goddamn detail. For example the al-kahtar from suna? It's not canon so people can ignore it if they so wish, but if they do wish to acknowledge it then it opens an entire new historical period for people that predates even kaguya's arrival.
Short and simple? Make just a base for people, say here's what we know for certain happened, and anything not on here is up to your own interpretation. Its kind of like giving people the base game, and letting them pick their own expansions to it.
I think I dig that more. But reason we made a "new" reality is because two sets of rules governing the same verse can't co-exist with each other, I think.
-
We're doing something different, because what's going on now isn't clearly working.
That can be subjective though. I've been enjoying myself quite a bit, and have a few things going on with my character right now. One thing I have planned and am currently working on, a lot of people here on the forums might not agree with but I'm gonna do it anyway. The people that want to play along with it, are more than welcome to and I know it won't cater to everyone.
But I do like Warren's idea of a general consensus on history whether it's world-wide or village history. At least so people can kind of read it and pick their character up from there. The whole base game-expansion example was pretty fitting, I think. The history would be good just so you know what's where, but that's also what the wiki pages are for. For example, when I started playing I knew I would start in Suna or Konoha. Konoha was really inactive and slow (and nobody notice me lol) so I went to Suna. I didn't really know much about Suna until someone mentioned the wiki. I checked it out and learned about the places in Suna and was able to paint a picture in my head. But I didn't know that Suna was once destroyed. And while that info might not be useful to me, it's nice to know that info to possibly build characters upon it. Like the Police Force members page. I have backstories for most of them even though they may never reveal their backstories...But it helps me keep their personality in mind as I build them :)
-
We're doing something different, because what's going on now isn't clearly working.
That can be subjective though. I've been enjoying myself quite a bit, and have a few things going on with my character right now. One thing I have planned and am currently working on, a lot of people here on the forums might not agree with but I'm gonna do it anyway. The people that want to play along with it, are more than welcome to and I know it won't cater to everyone.
But I do like Warren's idea of a general consensus on history whether it's world-wide or village history. At least so people can kind of read it and pick their character up from there. The whole base game-expansion example was pretty fitting, I think.
I was talking about bijuu when I said that part.
Correct me if I'm wrong Warren, but is it basically, we start from the very beginning and start from there? I mean, that throws away the "filler" idea, lol.
-
Simple fix really, all you'd have to do is mention before kaguya's appearance was the times of endless warring states and whatever, that not much besides that is known of back then, and voila. Leaves even 'pre-history' open for people to play around with to some degree.
-
Simple fix really, all you'd have to do is mention before kaguya's appearance was the times of endless warring states and whatever, that not much besides that is known of back then, and voila. Leaves even 'pre-history' open for people to play around with to some degree.
I dig that alot. Talk about going back to your roots.
-
The intention of this is so we can have an actual set of rules that people cannot argue, or claim are simple suggestions. We are not trying to exclude anyone from RP, in any facet. The "Filler" Label is using terminology that people are familiar with, and can easily understand when used in such context.
An example might be of use here.
Yujo and Kage with their 8 tails debacle. If say Kage were to join the Cannon, and Yujo did not, we would still accept Yujo as having a version of the beast. Though, instead of recognizing it as a legitimate beast, we look at is as a knock off.
What i mean by that is Yujo can still use his version of the beast in our RP, but we will rationalize it as a pseudo beast, and the entire RP will be looked at as "Optional" To include in our characters story. Much like how Utakata's interaction with Naruto was a filler storyline, yet in the cannon amine they addressed their previous meeting as if it actually happened.
We do not wish to exclude anyone from being able to RP here.
if this is the intent, then please... make Yujo's beast a pseudo beast and leave the rest of SL out of plans to bring them in line with rules.
Outside of that your idea scares the hell out of me. basically what is going to happens is like with SLS...if I don't opt in...then I don't get to rp with the people I want to rp with and will be ignored. Additionally, you will just decide that everything I ever did here was shit and is now void. Accept Al-Kahtar or not, the whole village of Suna took refuge in their ruins during war time. SO what, now its downgraded to just a hole in the ground? Well there is not point in me even continuing to stay here really is there?
not likely. Just tear it all up cause you can't agree on the basic rules of rp.
god I hate having to continuously restate these.
1] no god modding
2] no retro posting
3] no metagaming
4] no attack on an entry post
5] no successful escape all in one exit post
What more do you need? Oh geesh...look at that person over there doing that and having fun. QUICK KILL IT!!!!
DO you know I have people who are scared to approach the village cause they don't know if that is in the rules? Do you know I also have people who are afraid to take items they purchase while in the village with them cause it also might be against the rules. And these are the BRAVE people who dare to try and rp in public! GOD PLEASE STOP!!!
-
I find it funny how you guys think you can actually enforce rules here that Neji and staff don't make themselves.
You can make rules to you are blue in the face and call it whatever you want but you will just be aiding into the same cycle that as caused trouble for the most part at SL.
The only way you could enforce these rules would be within a Clan Hall. Where you could boot people from the clan who don't folow you to the 'T'.
You guys can do what you want but you'll will just have to call the other 90% of us filler.
-
Perhaps letting them see what they can make with my tips first would be prudent, if they choose to follow either of them, before just lynching them outright.
-
sure. why not just push me further into the dark. I will just hush now. have at it boys. confine us to your heart's content.
-
Nobody's hushing or pushing you to any darks or brights at the matter. My two tips were specifically how to make either thing without confining/excluding/anythinging people, and its up to them whether to try use them or just do their own thing, and up to others whether whether to follow whatever they do come up with in the end.
-
I'm confused. I thought this was the start of creating something like 'Rules for Roleplay' kind of thing. What does history have to do with it? o.o
It was even mentioned that it's optional to add that 'filler RP' into your character's history anyway.
I am curious to see what kind of rules that are thinking but maybe it's bad to call them rules, but instead 'guidelines'? Whatever.
Some of you do make a good point though. See a group of opt-out were to set up an RP event that's kinda widespread throughout the village, can you really call it 'filler' (especially if the kage of the village is also one of the opt-out)? >.>
god I hate having to continuously restate these.
1] no god modding
2] no retro posting
3] no metagaming
4] no attack on an entry post
5] no successful escape all in one exit post
I can live with that.
-
... god I hate having to continuously restate these.
1] no god modding
2] no retro posting
3] no metagaming
4] no attack on an entry post
5] no successful escape all in one exit post...
I have little doubt that your god understands your pain, but 1-3 on this list are ambigious in Shinobilegends. Different RP groups have their own interpretation of what is god-modding, retroposting, etc. That whole debacle with Masane and Yujo is a painting of what I'm talking about in that regard. You have to keep sounding like a broken record because what comes out is arguable, debatable.
A majority of the rules should probably stay how they were as well. What we would really be focusing on are the problem areas like Biju. Some other suggestions I have are things that people seems to get confused like action limits when it comes to clones and Summons. Some people say they get their own set of actions, others say they need to be shared with the users. If something like this were to pass, we would sit down and iron out the loopholes.
Like we have said, if people join, they are choosing to abide by the rules.
As Bocc has already stated, that has kind of already been the way things have been. Even those who opt in and choose to abide by the rules implicitly by joining may not always follow the rules. You kick them, strip them, or whatever until you have only those who will follow said rules being involved.
A practical implementation detail would be to have this group be a clan, with clearly identifiable tags and identity. Actually physical and spiritually make a distinction, a separation. The heads are easily identified by clan rank, members of said RP group are easily identified by the clan tag. Lay out the law in the clan halls and any accompanying support material (I.E, wikias or the sort) and give public need-to-know information in the description.
Make it so that in no uncertain terms those who join know what he/she is signing up for. If necessary, have a complete re-casting of the jinchurikii list (if you cannot get any current jinchs to join you), the kage list, etc. You might could even consider "starting over" to some extent, if you want a historical aspect to be added to this.
*P.S
Now would probably be an ideal time to whip back out those nerfed character guidelines what's his name (I think it was Shadow) made awhile back, and even the more recent Snap guide.
-
And being that nazi about it all would be exactly how to piss off and exclude everyone except a select few people, lol.
-
Perhaps letting them see what they can make with my tips first would be prudent, if they choose to follow either of them, before just lynching them outright.
lol, thanks for defending us Warren but we were prepared for this. This thread was sorta made for the sole purpose for gauging interest as well as seeing what kinda responses we would get. We're gonna let the responses flood in, no matter what it is, before we decide our course of action. But thanks for being a bro like always.
-
And being that nazi about it all would be exactly how to piss off and exclude everyone except a select few people, lol.
People are going to be pissed no matter how far you pull down your own pants. So what's your point there?
There is no point if this is just another attempt to corral a bunch of people who do not respect each other and each other's RP into one state of being. Because we have seen how well that works out.
-
And being that nazi about it all would be exactly how to piss off and exclude everyone except a select few people, lol.
People are going to be pissed no matter how far you pull down your own pants. So what's your point there?
There is no point if this is just another attempt to corral a bunch of people who do not respect each other and each other's RP into one state of being. Because we have seen how well that works out.
Ladies, please, you're both pretty.
I don't know what happened but you guys need to chill out. Any interactions between you two, in any topic, (Eric and Warren, if that wasn't clear) starts off at not good and gets worse from there.
Stop muscling in on my turf and behave like the respectable people you both are.
-
I'm being civil, especially because there is a point to my words, and Eric basically just proved it for me.
The problem is thinking the only possible way to establish any kind of order is for everyone to abide by the exact same rules no matter what, and that everything else is wrong and everyone who does those things should be ignored or forced to leave.
You aren't going to get anywhere at all and will just end up alone, unless you trash that line of thought and start instead thinking of how to get along with people, how to fit multiple things together without breaking them.
-
I am being civil, at least from my perspective. Maybe your idea of being civil is a little different than mine.
... The problem is thinking the only possible way to establish any kind of order is for everyone to abide by the exact same rules no matter what, and that everything else is wrong and everyone who does those things should be ignored or forced to leave...
The concept of "rules" and "laws", if they were to be implemented fairly, implies that everyone has to follow the same exact rules no matter what. If you make exceptions for reasons beyond the given scope of the rules, then people are going to rightly point out that there is a double-standard that makes the rules unfair.
I am clearly missing the whole point of this proposal. If everyone is on a different page, then nothing can be resolved because everyone is reading something different. If everyone is on the same page, even one written slightly different for each reader, it is better, but there are still discrepancies to be argued by the powers that be.
If everyone is on the same page with the same words and the same content, etc., then when deciding if a rule is broken, there is no "up for interpretation". Either you broke the rule or not. You cannot enforce anything fairly if you cannot even determine what is a violation clearly enough to enforce in good conscious.
Joe breaks a fundamental rule. He cannot stay just because he's a good RPer, because he broke the rule. If he were to stay and Johnny were to be kicked because he's a bad RPer, subjective to the whims of the judges, then the group is perceived, rightfully as elitist, and I stand on the aisle of Kayenta that that is only going to loop us back to psuedo-SLS territory and then back to where we are now.
-
Why don't we all just work on this one new rule I am making at SL.
Rule #1: Compromise.
It would literally fix all the problems. You don't need any other rules. Just tat simple one.
Oh but wait no one will follow it will they??? I would bet you all would vote for such a rule but would fall short on upholding it once it didn't favor your liking. Why? Because non-staff rules don't work.
-
...well you saved me the trouble of needing to say stuff for the second time already. Yes, you are indeed clearly missing the point. I could even say making things as black and white as you want them to be, would be pointless, harhar.
Without trying to sound overly dramatic, what you're basically saying is if someone does a "bad", you're not going to ask why they did it, much less if it really was like is being claimed. You won't even try, you will just go 'you did a bad, so gtfo, close the door on your way out'.
Where's the justice in that exactly? There is none.
Its basically the same as condemning someone for crossing a lawn where walking is forbidden, even if they had seen someone bleeding out on the other side and rushed over to help >_> the sign may even have been changed from 'no walking' to 'no littering'.
But you wouldn't care. They did a bad so now they pay.
@kirk
How come you're a drunk who normally gives no fucks, yet you immediately see what I'm trying to say? Yes, compromises, getting along with people. Good.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/5PbVOWo.gif)
-
Why don't we all just work on this one new rule I am making at SL.
Rule #1: Compromise...
Or... What? You going to throw out dissenters?
... Without trying to sound overly dramatic, what you're basically saying is if someone does a "bad", you're not going to ask why they did it, much less if it really was like is being claimed. You won't even try, you will just go 'you did a bad, so gtfo, close the door on your way out'.
Where's the justice in that exactly? There is none...
A rule that does not have a provision for emergency situations is a rule that would be doomed to fail to begin with (hence why we had grace periods and other such stuff for the biju rules).
That aside though, it's the Les Miserables problem. If you steal, you steal, you broke the law. Your punishment may vary depending on what you stole and all that such nonsense, but there is no question that you broke the law. Here on SL, that has been the hardest part to get past: is it a violation of the rules or not? Is it metagaming or deceptive RP?
There is no justice in a rule/law that can be broken by a chosen few and not broken by others if the reason for the exception is not given in the rule/law. There is no justice in the rich getting away with highway robbery and the poor spending their life in chains for the same offense, no matter whether it was more noble or not.
There is a reason that there is a judicial distinction (in many places) between degrees of murder and manslaughter. Heck, you can get off scot free in some places if it was self-defense. These are put into the rules for a reason; because if all murderers were hurled in jail, then a man defending his home from a burglar is considered just as wrong as a man killing his wife for ownership of the home. And for the society that put the rules in place, that is not justifiable by their idea of morality.
Your idea of justice seems different than mine. In an ideal system, everyone should be equal under the law, regardless of fame, fortune, experience, or friends in low and high places. That's my idea of justice. That you can't get away with cold-blooded murder (again, defined by the society) just because you have enough money to throw at the courts. That you can't get away with breaking and bending the rules just because you're considered "good".
I don't want to derail into philosophy here. If the purpose of this is just to try to shoehorn a bunch of people who will still be bound by their own individual rules and not by some common law of the land (figuratively speaking), then by all means, go on ahead, you might as well stick with the system we have already in that case.
-
I have zero issue with the system SL has now for rp.
-
I can't even follow what your "justice" really is, because now you've gone from black and white to contradicting yourself. First you say if a rule is broken then its broken and you're screwed, there is no interpretation of it. Then you say if a rule has no room for interpretation then it shouldn't have been made from the get go. Then you go back into black and white.
I'ma just leave it there and go sleep, I'm getting a headache.
@koji
I don't either. All I did was recommend doing it like I already do things myself, lol, I just never wrote it down anywhere. That is if they of course do end up doing anything with this in the end.
-
I can't even follow what your "justice" really is, because now you've gone from black and white to contradicting yourself. First you say if a rule is broken then its broken and you're screwed, there is no interpretation of it. Then you say if a rule has no room for interpretation then it shouldn't have been made from the get go...
That is not what I said at all. Maybe if I give you an example you will better comprehend:
ºGrace Periodº
After any challenge (& loss) from a challenger, a week must be given to the host before challenging them to a rematch (the one week grace period is in subject to a single challenger & as such does not signify a host can ignore challenges from all others during the time period). In cases such as obtaining a Biju for oneself, a 2-week grace period is granted In order to “commune” with one’s Biju. If a host shows inactivity for long periods of time (two weeks or more) without prior notice, you can report their missing & conference of a suitable host will take place when possible.
In this particular rule, it is stated that the offending host will be stripped, and a suitable one will be found, eventually, IF there is no prior notice. That is the only case of exception that has explicitly and clearly been given.
If a host is gone for 12 months without prior notice, they broke the rule and, regardless of status in RP or in real life (they could be laying in a ditch for all we know, or contracted the flu), should be stripped so that a new host may be selected. Callous when put that way, perhaps, but a dead guy is not going to come back and tell us what happened to him, so practical.
In this rule from the biju rules, no explicit direction for the "exception" is given because of the wide range of possibilities. However, a general rule of thumb was to find a new host (especially for a time as long as 12 months) to fill the role.
You either broke the rule or you didn't. What happens as a result is dependent not on the status of the RPer IC or IRL, but on the provisions in the rule itself. In this particular case, there really are not any (if you did not break the rule what happens is up for community debate, which usually led to the beast being passed on to the village head or something to that flavor) if you did not break the rule.
-
I follow the compromise rule as far as RPing goes. If I feel something is wrong with what someone is doing, I'll PM them.
-
I agree compromise is an amazing , but it only works on a small scale. But I've been here for awhile, I know that word doesn't exist for key issues. Hence, why I'm doing this
-
People will not compromise. You RP with your own group or not at all. SL has been like that for awhile and it probably won't change. It's also about freedom which is why this won't fly. Also, obligatory play nice warning.