Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Ѕhadow on January 02, 2015, 12:38:26 AM
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So what are your thoughts on it?
Giving it to a friend or giving it to an alt? My thoughts are simple cause it's easy that way.
Alts -> Once only ever
Friends -> Yes
Mind you in order to do this you must have no challengers currently and must not be in a fight, obviously.
If RP is needed to be made in order to do it I'm sure no one will decline that. Easy to do.
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So what are your thoughts on it?
Giving it to a friend or giving it to an alt? My thoughts are simple cause it's easy that way.
Alts -> Once only ever
Friends -> Yes
Mind you in order to do this you must have no challengers currently and must not be in a fight, obviously.
If RP is needed to be made in order to do it I'm sure no one will decline that. Easy to do.
Seems pretty self-explanatory like this.
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Well that was the most quickly concluded topic ever.
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Yeah i'm cool with this set up, lol.
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Well that was the most quickly concluded topic ever.
*Master negotiator* xD Give others time to respond. ~
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Well, if we're going to do this topic, we might as well be upfront about it. This is intended to add a rule regarding the "gifting" of biju to the biju rules, so that it is *not* as open-ended as it was before.
The original system was not really set up to accommodate gifting biju to different characters for the sake of inactivity concerns. If someone went inactive, there were provisions for the tailed beast's fate. Gifting biju for any other reason, to me, does not make a whole lot of sense. The tailed beasts are not just trophies to be handed off whenever the shelf wants to be replaced.
If you want to gift it otherwise, why not just have a mock fight between them? "But da result is the same!"
Yes, and no. The winner does get a new grace period, BUT, they also inherit the challenge list from prior. If they have no one before said giftee in their challenge list, then all runs swimmingly. But if there is someone else in line ahead of them, then it keep them from getting skipped in the process. Even gifting for the sake of activity concerns is really "meh" with me.
As far as I see it, it is easier to work with the rules we have set up then completely adding in a rule explicitly permitting free gifting. Because as we have seen, there will be protest if it is done under questionable circumstances.
That's my proposition.
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To be entirely honest i'm fine with anything, because once again I DON'T have alts to even worry about transferring Biju to, nor do intend to go inactive once I get one. My overall want is for everything to just boil down and be finalized
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Well, if we're going to do this topic, we might as well be upfront about it. This is intended to add a rule regarding the "gifting" of biju to the biju rules, so that it is *not* as open-ended as it was before.
The original system was not really set up to accommodate gifting biju to different characters for the sake of inactivity concerns. If someone went inactive, there were provisions for the tailed beast's fate. Gifting biju for any other reason, to me, does not make a whole lot of sense. The tailed beasts are not just trophies to be handed off whenever the shelf wants to be replaced.
If you want to gift it otherwise, why not just have a mock fight between them? "But da result is the same!"
Yes, and no. The winner does get a new grace period, BUT, they also inherit the challenge list from prior. If they have no one before said giftee in their challenge list, then all runs swimmingly. But if there is someone else in line ahead of them, then it keep them from getting skipped in the process. Even gifting for the sake of activity concerns is really "meh" with me.
As far as I see it, it is easier to work with the rules we have set up then completely adding in a rule explicitly permitting free gifting. Because as we have seen, there will be protest if it is done under questionable circumstances.
That's my proposition.
So basically what I said? >> Also if it's given to an alt there is no grace period.
Can't pass it along if you have challengers waiting, as said.
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Well, if we're going to do this topic, we might as well be upfront about it. This is intended to add a rule regarding the "gifting" of biju to the biju rules, so that it is *not* as open-ended as it was before.
The original system was not really set up to accommodate gifting biju to different characters for the sake of inactivity concerns. If someone went inactive, there were provisions for the tailed beast's fate. Gifting biju for any other reason, to me, does not make a whole lot of sense. The tailed beasts are not just trophies to be handed off whenever the shelf wants to be replaced.
If you want to gift it otherwise, why not just have a mock fight between them? "But da result is the same!"
Yes, and no. The winner does get a new grace period, BUT, they also inherit the challenge list from prior. If they have no one before said giftee in their challenge list, then all runs swimmingly. But if there is someone else in line ahead of them, then it keep them from getting skipped in the process. Even gifting for the sake of activity concerns is really "meh" with me.
As far as I see it, it is easier to work with the rules we have set up then completely adding in a rule explicitly permitting free gifting. Because as we have seen, there will be protest if it is done under questionable circumstances.
That's my proposition.
So basically what I said? >> Also if it's given to an alt there is no grace period.
Can't pass it along if you have challengers waiting, as said.
No, the way I put it make it clear that it doesn't matter whether it is an "alt" or a "friend". Did we not just have a thread locked when there were accusations of who is an alt and who is a friend? As I stated prior, how can you tell who is alt and who is friend? Unless someone confesses with conscious, you really don't know.
In the case of some such as Bocc, he is willing to put that kind of information out there. But for folks like me, I would have no intentions on revealing the difference between friend and alt. Because that would affect the RP perceptions of both characters.
Again, mine emphasizes that it is less of a "gift" and more of a way to work things into the system. it also makes minimal emphasis on the distinguishing between "alt" and "friend". So somewhat like what you said, but keeping in mind that "alt" and "friend" are near impossible to definitively tell apart if the player(s) is/are unwilling to divulge.
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Here's a thought.
How about A, having an actually sensible, logical IC reason to do it if its passed along, and as a slightly unrelated side-note B, having a legit way of surviving the extraction if former owner was made into a jinch stead of just having it in a pot or something.
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Here's a thought.
How about A, having an actually sensible, logical IC reason to do it if its passed along, and as a slightly unrelated side-note B, having a legit way of surviving the extraction if former owner was made into a jinch stead of just having it in a pot or something.
Boooooooooooooooooooo. *throws rotten vegetables*
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Here's a thought.
How about A, having an actually sensible, logical IC reason to do it if its passed along, and as a slightly unrelated side-note B, having a legit way of surviving the extraction if former owner was made into a jinch stead of just having it in a pot or something.
I'm all for RP. I mean this is supposed to be an RP site.
Side B...you mean that were the jink give it away and then get it back?
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A is more for cases like Night, even he himself admitted he got and later gave it away through OOC really. A would solve that issue.
B is one of my two main facepalming inducing issues about Bijuu, one being getting tails that I won't go into, other being surviving extraction without any real explanation. Its happened over years quite a bit, people swapping what they're a jinch to like changing their clothes.
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Does one actually die immediately though? I mean look at B when the Hachibi got extracted from him, he survived.
It took Gaara a bit to die too from that statue stealing the beast through forced means.
Naruto is an Uzumaki [and main character no jutsu] so he doesn't really need to be taken into account here.
So would it not be plausible to survive the extraction and have a new one transferred in that time frame before dying?
Or am I just crazy? XP
Edit: All edits were made to correct typos and grammar. Damn these small keyboard pieces!
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Huh....I wonder if taking one out and putting a new one it would offset dying...
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A is more for cases like Night, even he himself admitted he got and later gave it away through OOC really. A would solve that issue.
B is one of my two main facepalming inducing issues about Bijuu, one being getting tails that I won't go into, other being surviving extraction without any real explanation. Its happened over years quite a bit, people swapping what they're a jinch to like changing their clothes.
The RP aspect of it would apply even if the host follows an OOC battle plan? I'm not objecting entirely since it does make some sense (as long as challengers don't get screwed over by the exchange) but since all my fights, for example, are OOC to begin with, trading would kill me while losing a biju match wouldn't if it applied to even OOC match conditions.
Does one actually die immediately though? I mean look at B when the Hachibi got extracted from him, he survived.
It took Gaara a bit to die too from that statue stealing the beast through forced means.
Naruto is an Uzumaki [and main character no jutsu] so he doesn't really need to be taken into account here.
So would it not be plausible to survive the extraction and have a new one transferred in that time frame before dying?
Or am I just crazy? XP
Edit: All edits were made to correct typos and grammar. Damn these small keyboard pieces!
If the two of you are literally exchanging tailed beasts like people used to swap eyes, I can see how that could be an issue. Other than that, if nothing is done, then you will eventually die from the extraction process. I still am not entirely sure how Bee survived as long as he did.
I guess the issue would be whether or not it has to be the same beast going back in or if a different one could be used of greater tails.
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Depending on your vitality you might last some minutes to half an hour based on evidence in series, but up so far even OPdara died in moments after extraction. Gaara gradually perished during mazo-style extraction, was a corpse by time he fell to the ground after. Naruto lasted due to Uzumakiness a little time, only halfly so fared worse than Kushina. Killer B was left with some chakra from the leg Hatchan cut off for him.
At least imo, judging by Kushina's state and words/actions she woulda died sooner or late. Leaves only really the Senju as a questionmark since no hosts from them were ever seen.
In any case, as seen from Naruto I suppose cramming in a new beast quickly could save you. Can't see people who gave theirs away without getting one back being quite as lucky though, lest they had retarded amounts of life force or some other equally life-saving means prepared beforehand.
As for OOC, sure you can always say fight doesn't affect IC, but one does not simply ignore the sudden disappearance of a bijuu, especially if its been used with a most relevant role in RP up till that point. Dunno about you but should that happen then at least I'd try make up some explanation for it.
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Depending on your vitality you might last some minutes to half an hour based on evidence in series, but up so far even OPdara died in moments after extraction. Gaara gradually perished during mazo-style extraction, was a corpse by time he fell to the ground after. Naruto lasted due to Uzumakiness a little time, only halfly so fared worse than Kushina. Killer B was left with some chakra from the leg Hatchan cut off for him.
At least imo, judging by Kushina's state and words/actions she woulda died sooner or late. Leaves only really the Senju as a questionmark since no hosts from them were ever seen.
In any case, as seen from Naruto I suppose cramming in a new beast quickly could save you. Can't see people who gave theirs away without getting one back being quite as lucky though, lest they had retarded amounts of life force or some other equally life-saving means prepared beforehand.
As for OOC, sure you can always say fight doesn't affect IC, but one does not simply ignore the sudden disappearance of a bijuu, especially if its been used with a most relevant role in RP up till that point. Dunno about you but should that happen then at least I'd try make up some explanation for it.
If I may ask, since I constantly have to worry about the threat of losing Kokuo while in the middle of a RP (or after working on the beast some) what kind of things could I, for example, come up with? I could maybe release a crapload of physical energy from some seal, but even with that boost of vitality, it would have be a near limitless source like the Mazo in order to keep me alive indefinitely.
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Its never quite really explained why exactly the host dies, leaving us with little more than theories. My own is that shock of such a huge abrupt loss of chakra and life force is simply too traumatic for the body to handle, kind of similar to how people have been known to die of shock from too much pain.
If going by that, rather than being permanently crippled, one could argue that over a lengthy period its possible to recover from it to at least relative normality. Simple fix for that, can for example in a similar style to Yin seal store excess life force into a seal or some other kind of container over a period of time, then use that to keep you alive.
Myself, when I grew bored of people bitching about having stripped me of Hachibi ages ago due to largely fake claims of inactivity, I changed bodies. Warren never was a human to begin with, and his wife at the time not only was proficient at messing with souls, but also knew a fairly brilliant scientist. A basically identical, just less worn out new body was grown for him, much in a similar manner to how he was "born". After Hatchan's seal was released, his wife simply yanked out the soul and put it in the new one.
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How exactly does one falsify claims of inactivity? xD
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Try to relate this back to the main topic. <<; Kinda off-tracking on another topic.
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Well, reincarnated (Edo) hosts in the series were left unconscious from the extraction of tailed beasts according to the wiki. The only way to survive was to have a constant stream of life force coursing through the veins after extraction, meaning that the tailed beasts likely were somehow connected to the life force of the jinchs in some way.
Think about it. The Ten-tails husk had its chakra sapped from it: that chakra was then used to create the tailed beasts then. Logically then, that chakra being placed in a lesser vessel would have a certain relationship with the subject's physical energy. Without sufficient life force (I don't want to confuddle physical energy and life force too much, but they do interchange often) one cannot even be a jinchurikii (the 10-tails requires a living host, not a reincarnated host, for example).
Having the tailed beast extracted then likely also drains the life force of the jinch, eventually leading to death unless a constant life force is kept through them, or that lost life force is somehow restored. Just theorizing stuff up here.
The point of the matter that's relevent to the topic though, is if gifting a tailed beast for someone without naturally great life force is more dangerous than simply losing it in a biju battle (OOC), then what would be the point of gifting it in the first place? Heck, IC-wise, no one who values their life would gift a biju to another individual very willy nilly simply because of the risks involved.
It kind of conflicts with the point of doing an OOC match in the first place, where you win or you lose, you lose or win a tailed beast, and you move on with your RP.
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Well replenishing that lost life force is exactly what I meant with the storing it in some container, for a post-loss release into use. I don't see where you get the need for a constant feed of it though, its not like the extraction knocks you to +100 years of age with an old age wrecked body like Geezerdara's was. I'ma try another comparison.
Cold turkey. If you can't endure it, yer ded, same as jinchs after extraction. Get through it though, as a jinch could with sufficient life force, the body will normalize and resume normal function.
As for why bother with OOC over IC, simple really. If you lose IC, winner does whatever the hell they please with you, so lest they spare you or you get help from a third party you're likely just dead no question. OOC, despite the oddities the beasts sudden disappearence may cause, at least gives you the opportunity to try plan some at least remotely sense-making explanation for it.
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Well replenishing that lost life force is exactly what I meant with the storing it in some container, for a post-loss release into use. I don't see where you get the need for a constant feed of it though, its not like the extraction knocks you to +100 years of age with an old age wrecked body like Geezerdara's was. I'ma try another comparison.
Cold turkey. If you can't endure it, yer ded, same as jinchs after extraction. Get through it though, as a jinch could with sufficient life force, the body will normalize and resume normal function.
As for why bother with OOC over IC, simple really. If you lose IC, winner does whatever the hell they please with you, so lest they spare you or you get help from a third party you're likely just dead no question. OOC, despite the oddities the beasts sudden disappearence may cause, at least gives you the opportunity to try plan some at least remotely sense-making explanation for it.
But remotely making sense would include, why would the winner let you walk or something of that sort? After extracting the tailed beast, if the victor had Edo Tensei, why wouldn't they keep a portion of you after the fight? The fight itself also did not happen in the RP continuum, so then the fight would have had to happened IC at some point in order for it to make sense for all of the otherwise extraneous RP stuff for why the person survived and such.
I see the need for constant feed from the series. Killer B would have croaked had he not severed off that portion of Gyuki, using its chakra as a medium to stay alive. Naruto too would have croaked had it not been for Obtio throwing tailed beast chakra into him.
Obito, though paralyzed, was more or less fine if not just weakened when he got the ten tails extracted because the husk remained inside him. The dude revived Madara while he was in this state, recall. The stubborn dude clung on even after getting it removed and that revive technique because of presumably Hashi's cells and Zetzu (or for plot reasons).
Living under your own power indefinitely after getting janked for your tailed beast does not seem like the norm here.
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Like i've already stated, i'm fine with whatever outcome comes of this topic, but if someone would be so kind to shoot me a pm with the final decision on whatever this all is, So that I may know for future reference <3
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Well explain me this then o_O should you lose Kokuou to say Mioku in an OOC match, then bug man asks where'd the 5-tail go, do you just go 'wut you talking about, I never had it to begin with'? At least to me, coming up with some sensible reason to an OOC loss sounds far easier than trying to alter the past to fit new reality of things.
Bee doesn't really count cause he did have a way out. Obito however had beasts extracted, rinne tenseid madara, gedo mazo extracted, put through kamuis fighting and bijuu passing overs while stuck to black zetsu, even took control of him for a good while and went up against Swagdara. Though they did talk as if he was gonna die inevitably anyway, I'd pass that off as more just a pure guess, since Naruto didn't just restore proper heart function to him but boosted back to enough health for multiple kamuis and such, plenty fit to rush to save Sasuke and Naruto. Naruto's Yin mark had also fixed Gai from a friggin ashen, burnt up husk into a nigh completely healthy state except for the Night Guy-fubared leg of his, so I refuse to believe he would have just died for an inexplicable depletion and inability to generate more life force after all that.
Well, if Kaguya's ash bones hadn't done him in that is.
Edit: Now that I wrote that, I do wonder why the leg wasn't fixed. Makes no sense.
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Well explain me this then o_O should you lose Kokuou to say Mioku in an OOC match, then bug man asks where'd the 5-tail go, do you just go 'wut you talking about, I never had it to begin with'? At least to me, coming up with some sensible reason to an OOC loss sounds far easier than trying to alter the past to fit new reality of things...
When I had set my matches to OOC, I had not considered the implications of how that was going to fit into the RP. I made the mistake of RPing with the beast, thus that would be a very valid question.
If I were to retain power from Kokuo like any host who survived extraction, then yes, I would feel obligated to come up with SOMETHING to explain it. Otherwise, I probably would go:
"Never had it, your question is invalid". Maybe not the best way to do it, but up until recently, I hadn't really put too much thought into that possibility. I could say that reality was shifted to the point where I never possessed the beast in the first place, but I recall my conversations and such with it, is not so far-fetched if I also claim that it happened because of a reality bending ninja (Rinnegan-sharingan) doing such.
But putting some thought into it, yes, it would be as if I never had the beast in the first place would be the aftermath. The RP with it would have been made a bit pointless unless I were to catch the beast again, in which that previous RP would become flashback introspect while I wait for the tails to grow back (figuratively and literally speaking).
Complicated, certainly, but that's only if a reason for the beast no longer being there would have to be answered. The proposition for there to be a logical reason for survival (not such being a choice) clashes somewhat with the nature of OOC biju battles.
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Something for you to consider then =P
As for me, its how I've rolled so far without seeing any real reason for doing otherwise, so I'ma stick with extraction being cold turkey on steroids; lest you've some way to survive long enough to normalize, yer ded.
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So how are we handling this gifting biju business then? I can't say I'm totally on board with a mandated reason for the extraction to be survivable if the host uses OOC battles. IC battles, it's practically a given, and causes trades to have a little more thought put into them, but I still don't see the need for OOC battlers to also have a mandated reason.
Also, I think Warren's idea combined with either mine or Shadow's would be a more effective way to implement that; Warren's idea alone really does little to prevent challengers from getting rubbed (which is part of the reason this discussion came up in the first place) in the wrong place by spontaneous gifting.
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My main thing to bring up with first post wasn't the survival actually, it was having a sensible IC reason for any kind of gifting/swapping/whatever of a beast, so we don't get another case such as Night.
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My main thing to bring up with first post wasn't the survival actually, it was having a sensible IC reason for any kind of gifting/swapping/whatever of a beast, so we don't get another case such as Night.
What could be considered a sensible IC reason? Does "I need to gift this to u cuz u mah homie" count? I am having a hard time considering what would be a reasonable IC reason to hand your tailed beast off. OOC, well yeah, you got this and that and RL and stuff, but IC, you would only hand it off if you had it on a summoning leash and wanted to gift it as a prize or reward. But it could also be just a gift, just like IC.
That last reason kind of negated the purpose of having a sensible IC reason, if it were to be counted as a sensible reason.
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So no...I don't believe you could get one bijuu out and another in before they die.
Yeah you can.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tailed_Beast_Transfer_Technique
I think the rest of this stuff is ridiculous to be honest. I don't know what Night was doing but I'm not delaying anyone. I don't agree that you should do multiple bijuu fights at the same time. Perhaps one challenge and one defense. If you're getting your fight then you should do the dang fight instead of complaining about junk like this. "Oh man he gave it to his alt." Yeah, I did, it's my bijuu, I'll give it to who I please.
I laughed at the idea that you need a "legit IC reason" to give someone a bijuu. Well what if someones idea of what is legit is not the same as mine? I assume I will be character controlled into not being able to give the bijuu to who I want? That's garbage, but this site is turning to garbage so nothing really surprises me at this point. I'm already character controlled into not being able to have more than two bijuu so why stop there? The idea of one person hoarding them is nonsense. Zenaku had all 9 and nobody complained about that. It's not like I'm just going out and grabbing all the bijuu and running home with them before anyone else can play with them. I have to capture them from people and I have.
I find myself agreeing Kirk more and more in regards to these things. Everyone wants to know how they can void people doing the things they don't like and how they can get rules made and changed so people can't do this and that to them. Shut up and rp. Just shut up and rp.
Do I call people out on god modding and things like that, yes, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how no one attempts to solve anything through rp. The Kiri jinchuriki don't want to fight me, I'm not going to sit here and whine about it till someone changes the rules, I'm going to figure out another way to get the bijuu from them. I have other hunters, or I'll pay someone off with something else they want to get it for me, in rp. Why is that so hard?
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Night was in the wrong. We all pretty much agree on that. He had challengers on the list, ect. In all truth the beast should have gone to the next person on the challenge list.
What I did was completely fine. I had a bijuu and all was mundane. No challengers, no one wanting to make a trip to get my bijuu. Sure Ichi did talk to me about fighting, he never followed through. Kay alt challenged me and then withdrew. So no one was in line.
I was waiting around with nothing happening. I wanted a break from RP. With no wait list or anything of the sort I gave it away OOC to Athos. Now at this point you may want me to have done it IC and I could have easily. Shadow and Athos know each other IC and have rp'ed sometimes, truth be told it would have gone to Hazama instead if IC, but same person ooc. Mattered little.
-----End self-explained bijuu giving----
OOC and IC bijuu giving
So here's the issue I stumbled across while thinking. MOST people. I say most as some have their rp intricate like a web. Anywho, most people know their friends IC. Say I've known Bocc outside of the game for years and we both like Naruto and we both like playing SL the odds of us not rp'ing together is slim to none. What I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter most of the time if it's IC or OOC. If you give it to a person OOC you know that person pretty damn well or you'd give it to someone else. Odds are you know them IC. It'd be surprising to see someone give it to a rando.
IC rp'ed with the bijuu and OOC giving it away. Or I didn't rp and gave it away IC or OOC or (insert here)
This part is too diverse to make a solid rule I think. There's about 5 variables I can think of off the bat.
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So I'm going to go with something taken from 'I, Robot' a simple list of rules that you must follow prereq to even consider giving a bijuu away.
1) You have no current challengers
2) You aren't currently in a fight
3) Must make a connection in RP if OOC or IC
The first two are simple. We all agree on those. Rule 3 is the bad one and ties all aspects of extracting, passing along, etc. So since rule 3 is a wildcard I say let it rest. Leave it alone. Use common sense.
I gave it to my grandma OOC because her nephew Fabio wanted to trade it for a velociraptor that knew karate. Or I gave it to so-and-so IC because it'd only make sense. Should someone have to die because they don't want a bijuu anymore from extraction? No. Let them live and continue rp, lest you're against rp, get out now.
There's two examples. The first one looks shady to me while the second one is awesome-sauce. Second one makes sense they passed rule 3. Boom give it away. Example 1 doesn't make sense you can't give it away. And millions of other variable situations. Make sense of it before giving it away. You want to give it OOC to a friend of 6 years? Makes sense give it away.
For those of you who are against it. Why do you care so much? If you wanted the bijuu you should be on that challenge list already. If it doesn't affect you or your rp move on.
Night's transfer was wrong, still people on the list.
Shadow's transfer was fine, no one was on the list.
Bocc's alt hopping was fine, no one on the list AND he gave it to a weaker-in-a-sense alt than Bel.
First two rules passed? Great.
Rule 3? Use common sense and don't be an ass. Try to make sense of it before doing it.
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Uhh, you're lashing out why exactly? Not once did I point fingers your way Bocchi, lest you count the joke of 'omg how many people are you', and now I'm (among others) the one getting slandered? How very kind of you.
I said basically naught of Belphe and Desare because outside of the alt issue people frown on there isn't anything concrete. For all I know Belphe could have been yet another akatsuki person and after seeing Desare went 'oh hey here's another of the beasts', easily too because he didn't make himself into a jinch. Or well then he just was an individual whose ass Desare kicked.
Debatable to some people no doubt, I will admit it doesn't quite sit entirely right with me either, but if dismissing the alt issue and looking at it from purely IC pov then at least I could see either of those things having happened, and that already makes two at least generally acceptable legit IC reasons.
So uhh, I don't mean to be an ass, but I would advise minding what you say a bit more. Insisting trying to put some more RP into things through at least slight IC sense into this matter is plain stupid, yet then demanding all others should just shut up, stop whining and RP, could be viewed as rather hypocritical.
But to get back on topic, as for Night, no offense to the guy but I'm not really seeing much if any IC sense there instead whatsoever. Sure he could have been just an akatsuki spy at kumo and so on, but lets assume he wasn't for a moment, like he claimed. He had a good job as ANBU captain, wasn't trusted much but not doubted so much he wasn't be given a chance instead of capture/kill-on-sight, he even had a soon to be quite rad house to live with Rinoa in.
What does he do? Just leaves all of that behind, even the close to impossible experiments he just started, without a word or any kind of explanation to anyone. Most likely suicided in giving away the beast too, since he was a jinch. While kumo higher-ups might call it predictable due to not trusting him in the first place, I'd imagine at least Rinoa feeling pretty damn pissed/betrayed over it, especially after some of the things he told her.
That right there in turn, would be an example of not at all legit IC reason.
Hell, even Shadow's thing makes some slight sense. Knowing him, could have been he had been already bored of hosting or for some other reason been wanting to get rid of it instead, orrr he just felt like rather giving it away instead of risking his life fighting for it. Several possibilities right there.
Further on Shadow, the list of 3 isn't looking all that bad. Combining ours and Kay's, could make it into say uhh, if one has already planned some kind of giveaway of the beast, and have a legit reason for doing it too, then they do as she said and state it beforehand, instead of blindsiding others with it.
Edit: Don't care what people say, I liked the movie version of I, Robot too.
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But to get back on topic, as for Night, no offense to the guy but I'm not really seeing much if any IC sense there instead whatsoever. Sure he could have been just an akatsuki spy at kumo and so on, but lets assume he wasn't for a moment, like he claimed. He had a good job as ANBU captain, wasn't trusted much but not doubted so much he wasn't be given a chance instead of capture/kill-on-sight, he even had a soon to be quite rad house to live with Rinoa in.
What does he do? Just leaves all of that behind, even the close to impossible experiments he just started, without a word or any kind of explanation to anyone. Most likely suicided in giving away the beast too, since he was a jinch. While kumo higher-ups might call it predictable due to not trusting him in the first place, I'd imagine at least Rinoa feeling pretty damn pissed/betrayed over it, especially after some of the things he told her.
That right there in turn, would be an example of not at all legit IC reason.
Hell, even Shadow's thing makes some slight sense. Knowing him, could have been he had been already bored of hosting or for some other reason been wanting to get rid of it instead, orrr he just felt like rather giving it away instead of risking his life fighting for it. Several possibilities right there.
Further on Shadow, the list of 3 isn't looking all that bad. Combining ours and Kay's, could make it into say uhh, if one has already planned some kind of giveaway of the beast, and have a legit reason for doing it too, then they do as she said and state it beforehand, instead of blindsiding others with it.
Edit: Don't care what people say, I liked the movie version of I, Robot too.
I can't really say on the Rinoa matter, but I think she's cool with it. She can contact him about it if she wants at any time.
I gave it away cause I was bored, wanted a break. Had no challengers so fighting for it wasn't an issue. I planned on not rp'ing anymore so I gave it to someone who does RP.
Yeah, stating it would be nice. Kind of like what I did with mine.
I, Robot was a glorious movie. ~
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I can; she wasn't happy one bit >>; I will spare you the language though.
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But one way to stop the madness is to right now say-
Removal of tailed beasts! :eek:
-after these matches if I am still host I am doing this. No more challengers for this host.
And you draw the line.
Awww... :oops:
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1) You have no current challengers
2) You aren't currently in a fight
3) Must make a connection in RP if OOC or IC
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As long as we don't have to come up with some reason for surviving an extraction even if the trade was done in an OOC manner, I have no complaints worth posting about at this time. The third rule seems kind of unnecessary though considering the reason can be practically anything just short of "I don't want to fight you for it".
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I didn't target anyone with that on purpose. If you had read it fully the point I was making was not that I had an issue with some rp being required to transfer bijuu. My issue was that it has to make sense and how do we determine what makes sense. I don't think anyone should be telling anyone else what makes sense for their character to do. So no I don't see that as being hypocritical.
If we're going to use those 3 rules my only issue is how do we enforce #3?
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Rule 3 doesn't have to be added. Just a suggestion. Was trying to make errone happy.
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Rule 3 doesn't have to be added. Just a suggestion. Was trying to make errone happy.
I understand that, and I'd love as much as the next guy for "Everything has to make sense." to be just a rule in general. But as we know many people on SL have different ideas of what that entails.
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Be that as it may, if Kay's thing of clearly stating when you intend to pass a beast to someone else is employed, I don't see it harming anyone to add a simple 'why' onto that. Could perhaps constitute as the 3 or something.
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Be that as it may, if Kay's thing of clearly stating when you intend to pass a beast to someone else is employed, I don't see it harming anyone to add a simple 'why' onto that. Could perhaps constitute as the 3 or something.
Until someone doesn't think your why is good enough and they contest it. Then we have another forum debate about whether or not your characters logic makes sense or not. It just seems to me that it's a set up for just more awful things to come.
I just feel like it's either something that cannot be contested and there for pointless, or people are going to be telling other people what their characters personalities and such would allow them to do. I don't particularly like either of those ideas.
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A debate where you can prove yourself, as opposed to doing whatever on earth one pleases as long as its not to an alt a second time and your challenge list is empty.
Looking at how things have gone so far, I'd quite prefer the former.
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A debate where you can prove yourself, as opposed to doing whatever on earth one pleases as long as its not to an alt a second time and your challenge list is empty.
Looking at how things have gone so far, I'd quite prefer the former.
Prove what? That you're rping your character? How is it that I'm the one in favor of people not having to be interrogated about what they want their characters to do in rp and there are people against that?
It is either pointless, or character control. Anyone with half a brain can think up a reason someone would do something. That's pretty much how rp in general works.
Let's say you were to give Shukaku to Konoha. I contest your logic behind doing so. We make a forum topic and you explain it. What exactly would I counter with? How can I argue that the thought process you had your character go through is incorrect?
It just seems that unless we get some space-cadet Jinchuriki who is brought onto the forum to explain himself and goes, "Uuuuh, uuuuh, I unno." then their decision to give their bijuu to someone could never be overturned, so what is the point?
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To prove it actually was RP, not just shady OOC deals or whatever because frack everyone else is why. Would prevent new Nights, not even to begin about worse situations.
Say you fight yourself into a dead end, surrounded by hunters with no escape out of it. What's that, you quit and suddenly the beast is in the hands of someone else halfway around the world because magic?
And so on.
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To prove it actually was RP, not just shady OOC deals or whatever because frack everyone else is why. Would prevent new Nights, not even to begin about worse situations.
Say you fight yourself into a dead end, surrounded by hunters with no escape out of it. What's that, you quit and suddenly the beast is in the hands of someone else halfway around the world because magic?
And so on.
But the bijuu rules already allow that. We killed Trev in Iwagakure but because Rusaku was in a challenge for the 0 tails he got it instead of us, even though Trev was using the 0 tails in that rp we were in. So yes exactly what you just described has been backed up by the rules we have.
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And nobody else sees this as an issue? ._.
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And nobody else sees this as an issue? ._.
Apparently just the two of us.
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The first two rules prevent that. >>
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Well, if we're going to do this topic, we might as well be upfront about it. This is intended to add a rule regarding the "gifting" of biju to the biju rules, so that it is *not* as open-ended as it was before.
The original system was not really set up to accommodate gifting biju to different characters for the sake of inactivity concerns. If someone went inactive, there were provisions for the tailed beast's fate. Gifting biju for any other reason, to me, does not make a whole lot of sense. The tailed beasts are not just trophies to be handed off whenever the shelf wants to be replaced.
If you want to gift it otherwise, why not just have a mock fight between them? "But da result is the same!"
Yes, and no. The winner does get a new grace period, BUT, they also inherit the challenge list from prior. If they have no one before said giftee in their challenge list, then all runs swimmingly. But if there is someone else in line ahead of them, then it keep them from getting skipped in the process. Even gifting for the sake of activity concerns is really "meh" with me.
As far as I see it, it is easier to work with the rules we have set up then completely adding in a rule explicitly permitting free gifting. Because as we have seen, there will be protest if it is done under questionable circumstances.
That's my proposition.
I selfishly quote myself because, at this juncture, I want to re-open this suggetion. Why not just not make a new rule that allows people to gift biju under certain circumstances and instead "permit" the "gifting" of tailed beasts? IC-wise, you would already need to survive extraction if it were a deathmatch, so that bit of RP is covered, and OOcly you can cover why the beast was transferred: "causes so and so lost". How they lost is not important, at least not for the sake of the rules, when it comes to OOC fights.
It prevents challengers from getting salty about getting skipped, and while they can understandably cry abuse if it happens often enough, preventing it from happening to successsively is if the host has challengers. If the host doesn't have challengers at all, then why hinder their ability to transfer the beast anyways? The challengers are the ones who get harmed by the transfer, not the host (in OOC, I mean, IC, losing power and potentially life can be considered harm).
If we keep stuff as concrete as possible, debates regarding the ethics of stuff can be less focused on the ethics of the perpetrator (as it so often gets thrown to) and more on the ethics of the rule that allowed it in the first place.
I mean, I was okay with the first two new rules that Shadow proposed, but saw #3 as unecessary. But if some variant of #3 has to be implemented, why not just default the "why" to "oh, we lost" instead of reinventing the wheel. Friends can still spare each other at the end of the fight, even help each other live and all that good jazz if they're feeling comfortable, but any debate as to the legitness of the "transfer" should direct things towards the rules, not the players.
The worst part about this is that the new host gets a grace period, but bear in mind that, gift or not, the new host has to adjust somewhat to having the tailed beast, and with inheriting any potential foes from the old list, it is only fair to give them the same benefit that any other host would have. They can't abuse that unless there are no challengers, but the grace period only prevents battles form being waged, not people from openly challenging for the beast.
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By adjusting I assume you mean waiting some weeks to automatically bag all the tails ? <<;