Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Hazama on January 02, 2017, 07:37:40 PM
-
I'd like to propose an update to the Edo Tensei rules, given what we now know about how their "bottomless" chakra works.
A second benefit is the limitless refilling of their diminished chakra reserves that the reincarnated individuals have access to; they can fight eternally and perform ordinarily physically demanding or chakra-intensive jutsu without issue, knowing their current reserves will infinitely refill.[21] They are still subject to certain inherent demands of the jutsu itself, such as the Second Tsuchikage's chakra supply being cut in half after using the Fission Technique[22] or only being able to create a certain number of clones.[23] Other side-effects may still manifest, as when Itachi Uchiha's eyes bleed from using his Mangekyō Sharingan, but he is not inhibited by it.
We now know that Edo Tensei zombies do not actually have "infinite chakra" at least not in the way that they could make a lightning blast with 1000000 peoples worth of chakra behind it, or make 1000000 shadow clones because they have infinite chakra.
We also know that they can actually entirely run out of chakra and be unable to do anything for a short while.
So what I propose is that we make an official rate of regeneration for an Edo's chakra, that they get like 5-10% back a turn or something, and in exchange remove the limit on them not being able to make solid clones. As that limit was made back when we thought being an Edo zombie did mean they could make a million billion clones.
What do we think?
-
According to an earlier topic, http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8891.0.html , the members of the forum came to the conclusion that chakra does not matter anyway. According to this, there should be no difference in chakra between an Edo Tensei player and a normal player. Also, with no official system in place to keep track of chakra use/totals, adding any kind of restriction/regeneration system would be completely arbitrary.
I don't think it requires any changes according to this information.
-
Is it sad that I knew that would be your reply just by seeing your name?
Anyway that's not entirely true. No one really keeps track of your chakra unless you do something that forces a number upon it. Like splitting it in half with a shadow clone or getting hit with a chakra absorbing jutsu that they said would absorb 50% of your chakra or something.
It just bugs me because knowing the context of the shadow clone limit I know it isn't needed anymore.
-
I won't fight against a chance to nerf OP stuff. I say lets do it. ^_^
-
I won't fight against a chance to nerf OP stuff. I say lets do it. ^_^
It's more of a normalization than a nerf. We're just making things more accurate to how the jutsu actually works. You could call the chakra aspect a nerf but the clones would be a buff so I think we break even.
-
Personally, I think that there shouldn't really be any change made to the current system. The problem, I believe, would be with how clones are utilized. If a summoned clone is treated exactly how a clone SHOULD function instead of just a carbon copy of the player character, then it should be acceptable to use. But if the clone is also granted "Edo Status" then I believe it should remain under the current rule set. For example, if an Edo character makes a single shadow clone, both should have 50% of the total chakra amount (I know, 50% of infinite is still infinite lol) and the shadow clone should be destroyed upon receiving damage. But if the character makes a shadow clone and the shadow clone can regenerate just like the edo character, effectively making two/more of that character at full strength with infinite chakra, then that method should not be allowed. So if clones are actually done properly and people don't try to warp the system to get around clone functionality, then maybe clones should be allowed.
But this is just how I feel about the whole thing. :)
-
I didn't even consider that honestly. I mean if you were a Jashinist and made a shadow clone your clone would still be dispersed upon taking damage even though it is the clone of an immortal. Edo zombies would be no different.
-
A percentage on chakra regenerated when there is no numerical system for counting chakra quantity?
My vote is, predictably, to pass on this update to the Edo rules.
-
A percentage on chakra regenerated when there is no numerical system for counting chakra quantity?
My vote is, predictably, to pass on this update to the Edo rules.
I propose we make a whole new SL system.
-
Yeah just like shadow clones are banned across the board because they require specific fractions of chakra to be divided up. We do ballpark amounts of chakra for things like clones or of someone's specifically uses a large portion of their chakra this is no different.
And changing the clone rule is still appropriate even if we don't want to make a small system for the chakra.
-
Yeah just like shadow clones are banned across the board because they require specific fractions of chakra to be divided up. We do ballpark amounts of chakra for things like clones or of someone's specifically uses a large portion of their chakra this is no different.
And changing the clone rule is still appropriate even if we don't want to make a small system for the chakra.
A regular person does not regenerate even 5% of their chakra per turn without special pills, jutsu, etc. Even then, 50% of your total chakra gone, with reasonable people, is an impact that will take off a few S-ranked combos. But to say that, if nothing else is done, all of the chakra used will be replenished in X turns would require Edo players to literally type out what percentage of chakra is used with every single jutsu in order for such a thing to be practical.
Even then, I still say no, especially since if an Edo can make a shadow clone and then wait for a certain amount of time for that chakra to regenerate before making another one, rinse-repeat. Or if summoners can have their Edo's summon 4 shadow clones (that's 20% chakra in each body, but only 5% is used for an S-ranked attack because the hard number has 6 zeroes behind it).
I'm not feeling it still.
A percentage on chakra regenerated when there is no numerical system for counting chakra quantity?
My vote is, predictably, to pass on this update to the Edo rules.
I propose we make a whole new SL system.
Sounds like a swell idea. Implement it first in biju matches though, just to see how it swings. There's a dice system floating about, and I know you're fairly famaliar with making zoning system yourself.
-
Sounds like a swell idea. Implement it first in biju matches though, just to see how it swings. There's a dice system floating about, and I know you're fairly famaliar with making zoning system yourself.
Test fight - http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9133.0.html
Multiple topics on dice system - http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/board,50.0.html
I would love for some sort of change to occur, but I had stopped putting effort into it when people didn't seem to be interested in it. I would love if we could go back into it, but a lot of people didn't like the fact that they would basically have to nerf their characters in order to fit the system (and so we all start at an equal playing field).
-
I agree and disagree with this thread. You are correct in saying that Edo Tensei's don't have unlimited chakra. This is a misrepresentation of the tech. Instead the zombies likely have just rapid regeneration of chakra. Whenever they perform a tech, their chakra "bar" is likely refilled instantly. This however, does not mean it is infinite capacity wise. We've seen example like Mu with the Dust Release, and two of the Hokages not being able to make clones while holding the barrier. This is probably cause in life, Mu couldn't create a dust release attack with only 50% chakra either.
I'm hesitant to say clones should be used. Mostly because it makes zombies harder to seal if you have a clone that can interfere in the sealing process. I think a nerf that would be better than a chakra regeneration rate would be a limit to only one clone for the zombie, and the addition of either when the clone is out, the zombie can't use anything above B ranked techs (No Kirin, no rinny techs, no Sage Mode, etc) or if the clone is sealed, then the main is too. The latter would help with clone techs like the splitting tech, but would also apply to shadow clones.
-
I don't think I'd say in regenerates instantly. Unless I'm remembering wrong Minato said something about being out of chakra after a while.
I'd agree to the single clone since the sealing thing doesn't really make sense and I dislike rules that are just nerfs that make no sense for the sake of being nerfs.
-
I don't think I'd say in regenerates instantly. Unless I'm remembering wrong Minato said something about being out of chakra after a while.
I'd agree to the single clone since the sealing thing doesn't really make sense and I dislike rules that are just nerfs that make no sense for the sake of being nerfs.
I don't recall Minato saying that, although it has been awhile. If he did say it, I'd suspect it's when he had the barrier up. But I don't know that he said that.
I didn't mean instant, but the regeneration period is so fast it makes one think an Edo Tensei is unlimited.
Glad you can agree to that, but I think it needs some other nerf if you want to get it passed. Whatever it be, it will be a non cannon nerf unfortunately as the people of SL have generally been hardest on Edo Tensei than any other tech. So if you really want this clone amendment to pass, something else has be given up. Just the way it works with this jutsu
-
I don't see why. The only reason the clone rule was made was because back when we thought they literally had infinite chakra some people (maybe me) just made like 50 or 100 shadow clones at a time and it was agreed that was way overboard.
The update specifically notes that you can't make any more clones than you could when you were alive though. As long as we understand that you can't like make a clone and then let both of you fill back up to 100% and do that over and over again the rule is really no longer needed, since the issue it was addressing is no longer an issue.
-
I don't see why. The only reason the clone rule was made was because back when we thought they literally had infinite chakra some people (maybe me) just made like 50 or 100 shadow clones at a time and it was agreed that was way overboard.
The update specifically notes that you can't make any more clones than you could when you were alive though. As long as we understand that you can't like make a clone and then let both of you fill back up to 100% and do that over and over again the rule is really no longer needed, since the issue it was addressing is no longer an issue.
I suppose, but it makes it harder to seal the Edo Tensei which I take issue with. Anyway, I'll quit raining on your parade and being a stickler and wait for other opinions lol. Maybe minds have changed.
-
@ Shadow:
I Would not mind a change to SL. The goals of RP would have to change, in my opinion. Rather than being acquisition driven, I believe a system where storyline and character development could be beneficial to all.
Stat systems, especially how much chakra, how fast, how strong...these things that are currently impossible to measure against another person's claims...make certain aspects around here impossible to achieve.
There are systems out there that do, however, make encounters between individuals easier to determine. When you have cooperation between players working toward goals and character benchmarks instead of trying to be top dog of the heap and be a trophy hunter.
-
I don't want any new nerfs, but I would like some updates to the rules itself. An issue I would like to bring up is techniques that deal with regeneration of organs and chakras.
For example, how do you account for the Regeneration ability and White Strength Seal/Strength of a Hundred Seal? Wouldn't it drastically alter the regeneration rate of the zombie itself or not?
-
White Strength Seal is basically created by storing chakra for a very long time to create the seal, which many people do utilizing other methods anyway. As for the Creation Rebirth, I don't see the point of combining it with Edo Tensei because they function differently. CR causes your cells to replicate alarmingly fast (think Wolverine) while ET turns your body into an ashy/paper kind of material that just materializes any damaged portions. No cells involved.
Do ET even have living cells technically? Since they don't bleed or anything, I always kind of figured the only 'living' portion of them is the body used as the base and the DNA used to make them. I guess CR wouldn't even work on an ET person...Though I guess if an ET lives long enough, they could use the WSS. At the same time, the meta of this game basically invalidates the need for the WSS because everyone has infinite chakra anyway.
-
White Strength Seal is basically created by storing chakra for a very long time to create the seal, which many people do utilizing other methods anyway. As for the Creation Rebirth, I don't see the point of combining it with Edo Tensei because they function differently. CR causes your cells to replicate alarmingly fast (think Wolverine) while ET turns your body into an ashy/paper kind of material that just materializes any damaged portions. No cells involved.
I figured that the regeneration rate that comes along with being zombie itself could negate that passive ability, since it requires living cells in order to be fully utilized by that individual. Madara displayed the regeneration ability soon after he was revived and never used it as a zombie himself, so that means some restriction still apply whilst being an ET.
Do ET even have living cells technically? Since they don't bleed or anything, I always kind of figured the only 'living' portion of them is the body used as the base and the DNA used to make them. I guess CR wouldn't even work on an ET person...Though I guess if an ET lives long enough, they could use the WSS. At the same time, the meta of this game basically invalidates the need for the WSS because everyone has infinite chakra anyway.
Edo Tensei can still bleed, salivate, secrete bodily fluids and display usage of blood-line limits that make use of living cells. However all of this happens under a certain and sometimes a specific circumstance, for example: As an ET, Itachi's eyes still bleed when he casts Amaterasu. Hanzo the Salamander still had access to a organ that secreted a deadly poison. Houzuki Mangetsu was given access to his blood line limit in the field of combat (4th Great War) and even displayed using it to drown that unfortunate opponent.
Personally I think you can't even use either one of those passive abilities as an ET, but like you pointed out with the meta these days; it's a broken system of chakra stats. I guess CS can be used as a field advantage to get that person out of a tight situation.