Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Shinro on August 01, 2012, 03:30:22 AM
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- Name: Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei
- Rank: S
- Type: Forbidden
- Effect: Edo Tensei is a Ninjutsu technique which had been forbidden because of its dark nature. The technique involves the summoning of dead souls from the afterlife back into the real world. Normally Kuchiyose (summoning) involves the use of the caster's blood as compensation for summoning, Edo Tensei is different though. Also, the resurrected soul will be able to utilize all abilities, including their bloodline powers, they possessed prior to their death.
To perform this technique, the user must first acquire some of the DNA of the person they intend to reincarnate. The soul of the intended reincarnated must also reside in the pure world (浄土, jōdo); those whose soul has been consumed by the Death God (or sealed for that matter), for example, cannot be reincarnated. Next, a living sacrifice is required for the soul of the reincarnated to use as a vessel. Once all prerequisites for the technique have been met, the acquired DNA of the person is smeared on a special scroll and once the scroll is activated, the remains spread out in the form of a special seal with the living sacrifice in the centre. Then dust and ash encase the sacrifice's body, giving them the same appearance that the reincarnated had at the time of their death. One final act will fully wipe out their conscious and make them under the command of the one who summoned them. The ninja will place a fuda (charm/tag) of some form into the head of the body. This will then give vitality back to the body and make it a pure killing machine. The person is then reincarnated and the end product is usually stored in a casket until summoned by the user. When the ninja wishes to recall the souls, a portal will open in the ground and the caskets holding the bodies will appear. The user can theoretically reincarnate a limitless number of people in this way, so long as they have enough sacrifices, chakra and DNA to perform the technique.
Note:
- When a portion of the dead body is damaged, the ash and dust will merely return and fix the damaged body part.
- Unlike while they were still alive, the reincarnated have unlimited chakra as well as seemingly near-unlimited stamina and can fight continuously.
- It should be noted that the reincarnated are still vulnerable to any technique that could affect them while they were alive, but they are able to reform as soon as they receive any damage. Furthermore, while the reincarnated can't be destroyed and feel no pain which originates from bodily harm or mutilation, they are still vulnerable to the drawbacks from their own techniques or weaknesses.
Drawbacks:
- It takes more effort to retain control with the weaker binding which can make it possible for the hearts of the summoned to be swayed by strong emotions, which can result in the soul breaking free and returning to the Pure World, or the reincarnated contradicting orders that they are given. Reincarnated shinobi with their personalities still intact have their movements limited to certain actions, and are basically on "auto-pilot" to react to enemy techniques. Once they recognize an enemy technique their bodies are programmed to counter it with an appropriate method.
- The reincarnated individual can be sealed away.
- If the summoner ends the technique—which means that he/she had form the katas “Rat”, “Ox”, “Monkey”, “Tiger”, “Dragon”, “Boar”, and then saying "kai"—the reincarnated soul will return to the Pure World.
- The technique can be partially combated by immobilizing the bodies in a way that it cannot move, act, or be recalled by the summoner.
- A certain powerful genjutsu can free the reincarnated person from the technique's control by giving them an order overwriting the user's control. This can be remedied if the user can place a new talisman into the said reincarnated person, thus reestablishing control.
- If the resurrected soul knows the seals that can release Edo Tensei’s summoning contract, then they could break the bond they have with the summoner. This leaves the individual effectively immortal with an unlimited amount of chakra, and the summoner has no control over the individual's mind and movements any longer, nor can the technique be deactivated on the said individual.
Limitations & Rules:
- To use Edo Tensei in Shinobi Legends without the technique being too OP, a SL account must be sacrificed and act as a vessel for the reincarnated. If an IC player’s account is used as a sacrifice, that player will henceforth be considered dead. Note that all accounts used as a vessel, MUST have “Reanimated” somewhere in their title. Also, the name of the Resurrected needs to be somewhere in the account’s name or title. This rule is very important so everyone in Shinobi Legends could keep track of your Edo Tensei puppets.
Example: Reanimated Kristin, the Huntress
- Those using Edo Tensei MUST have all the names of their resurrected somewhere in their biography.
- The resurrected CANNOT be someone else’s character that has or has had an SL account. The reincarnated MUST be your alternative characters; just any other character YOU had own and is no longer alive.
- If the user wishes to resurrect a soul, they MUST travel to the soul’s birthplace, and MUST conduct an rp investigation for 5 days. If the soul’s birthplace cannot be found in SL’s village system, Jiseigakure can be used instead. During those days, the user must investigate publicly and try any means to obtain the DNA of the target. After rping for 5 days, the user can start the ritual of Edo Tensei in a zone. If the user doesn’t resurrect their target in a zone, which can be viewed by everyone, then that reincarnation WILL be void in RP.
- Interesting enough whilst the deceased is under the technique, their will is to their own according until the summoner states their 'trigger' seal to completely wipe the deceased personality and make it a mindless fighting puppet.
- To summon a resurrected soul in battle, the user must render ¼ of their own chakras to keep the summoning bound to this world. The reincarnated MUST shared your action-limit per post, which is 1 attack, 1 defense, and 1 supplementary effect.
- To keep order and tradition, the limit of resurrected individuals in battle will be 3. The number of resurrected souls outside battle, however, can be limitless as long as the user follows the rules.
- Using the Edo Tensei summon for the vessel of a Bijuu is prohibited and any of the Bijuu's chakras that the Summon had obtain in their past life before death is NOT allowed.
Users of Edo Tensei:
- Kamui
- Ryuuji
- Shinro
- Bocchiere
- Trev
- Tsuyo
If you feel like you were excluded, message me via pms.
These rules and regulations were established in the Edo Tensei organization years ago. If any user of the Edo Tensei is unwilling to follow each rule, that person will be considered a God-mod.
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Biggest loophole ever, make an alt for the IC vessel needed "sacrificing Academy Student _____ to resurrect Some Godly Player who quit" and boom you have an Edo Tensei. Likewise, if the account that is being resurrected could be fake or unknown due to lack of RP/interaction with others on SL and there is no way to disprove their existence due to the deleted account.
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The investigation rule and family claim is, for lack of a better word, moronic.
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Thanks for the input. Indeed the old system had flaws. I suppose I'll change the rules of Edo Tensei to the ones that I had mentioned a few months ago, somewhere in the forums.
@Bocchiere: Your claim over Kamui is permitted and it's the only exception to the rules.
Edit: Found it. I changed a few sections, and the rules are now to be followed.
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So you can't even resurrect and enslave someone you've killed in battle? :O Not my business here but that seems a little bit off.
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So you can't even resurrect and enslave someone you've killed in battle? :O Not my business here but that seems a little bit off.
It seems to defeat the point of the jutsu when you need to bargain with every living family member to be able to use them.
edit
As for the "must have them in your bio" I have mine on the wiki, on the Edo Tensei page, so that should suffice.
edit
to be perfectly honest there is nothing wrong with Kamui's rules, we should just use those.
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@Rare: This ninpou is too OP from the start. The only benefits you get from this jutsu in battle will be the multiple elements, different KG powers, and constant immortal, body-shields.
@Bocchiere: Kamui's "unofficial" rules had too many flaws. From now on, he's going to follow the rules that I've made months ago. And what Wiki? Do you mean that Naruto-fan one that Nashley introduced to SL?
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Yes to your question.
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I understand that but some parts are just meh. xP Oh well, I bet this way no one will ever complain about it being too much. But it's like limiting kamui to functioning only if the victim is motionless for 10 seconds. xD But yeah, this is not really my business, me getting involved here would be somewhat like protesting about the politics going on in other villages.
But just for the record, here would be what I mainly disagree to:
As long as you have a fraction of their dna and someone to sacrifice (and you are the one that killed them?) it should work.
Permission from every family member? That just seems plain silly.
I do agree with the turn limitations on edo-tensei not functioning like on clones or summons merely cause it's a whole other level. But yeah, other than the two above mentioned I agree with everything.
I fully understand the the jutsu NEEDS to be leveled down, but TOO much in that direction doesn't seem good either.
I can partially understand the non-player part though, people are bound to god-mod the shizz out of sl to come back somehow by their character and this will create contradictions such as a zombie also being alive and well simultaneously. This way there's less modding on the behalf of sturdy victims and less contradiction.
But yeah, not saying this SHOULD be done or this SHOULD NOT. Merely sharing my opinion.
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"...To summon a resurrected soul in battle, the user must render ¼ of their own chakras to keep the summoning bound to this world. The reincarnated MUST shared your action-limit per post, which is 1 attack, 1 defense, and 1 supplementary effect.
- To keep order and tradition, the limit of resurrected individuals in battle will be 3. The number of resurrected souls outside battle, however, can be limitless as long as the user follows the rules..." ~Shinro, Rules of Edo Tensei
A quarter of your chakra? You mean, regardless of how much chakra you may have, a whole quarter of it is going towards to maintaining the summons during battle? That would connect it to the limited number of resurrected individuals in battle to 3, and thus mean that the two rules are inter-related! :D
Limiting the resurrected to your own action and posts makes sense, since you usually are either controlling it or yourself, and to have it otherwise would be nigh unbearable. But what if multiple ones are summoned? Can only one of them make a move at a time?
I'm getting this, I think... But a quarter of your chakra regardless of any chakra enhancers?
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Well duh, there a bunch of chakra enhancements that can make your chakra shoot up to the skies, that way you'd end up with people going for Kabuto-like armies.
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Well duh, there a bunch of chakra enhancements that can make your chakra shoot up to the skies, that way you'd end up with people going for Kabuto-like armies.
*whistles innocently*
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@Rare: This ninpou is too OP from the start. The only benefits you get from this jutsu in battle will be the multiple elements, different KG powers, and constant immortal, body-shields.
@Bocchiere: Kamui's "unofficial" rules had too many flaws. From now on, he's going to follow the rules that I've made months ago. And what Wiki? Do you mean that Naruto-fan one that Nashley introduced to SL?
Also I would like to state that my guide-lines were some-what incomplete in a way.
I was in quite a hurry to complete them so that the list of current users could used the Edo Tensei more freely without being limited in Role-play but I suspected it would get abused like in the manga with armies plaguing the land, so a change was needed.
Shinro's combined of my own with his newly established guide-lines makes it now complete.
So I fully support these new rules and the changes will be implemented, no exceptions.
@Bocchiere
You do know that my left eye was useless after the usage of Izanami, correct?
So this brings up the a question totally unrelated to the topic, if my right eye is transplanted within your socket giving you access to EMS then a Two-Path Rinnegan.
Then what is contained within your left eye socket? Your own? Someone else?
Because if so then you just lose usage of Kamui and/or Jikudan Ido since my right eye only contained the ocular ninjutsu; Amaterasu.
To clarify this, a Uchiha can only have one ocular Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and finally Susano'o depending on the order of the powers that were unlocked.
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Actually some share my personal belief. That being that if per say you obtain EMS the result is: the techniques of both pairs. Now this isn't backed with much accuracy but we can deduct it's feasibility from the fact that the pattern development of such is the combination between the two eyes rather than the new set only.
At this time there is no more than that to provide us with proof on this hypothesis being either right or wrong, and it will likely stay that way for a while given that the only case of which we know the victim's technique as well is Sasuke, which had identical techniques to those of his brother to begin with.
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I have another Sharingan in that eye. I say the limit should be 3 for normal, plus 1 for every reset over 3 Paths, I want my 6 Paths of Pain zombies.
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I have another Sharingan in that eye. I say the limit should be 3 for normal, plus 1 for every reset over 3 Paths, I want my 6 Paths of Pain zombies.
You dodge the question, it is your own Sharingan eye or just another that you harvested? Thing is you already made the claims for the Two-Path Eye.
For the time being you are limited to three until Kamui either becomes freed then is reborn and somehow accesses Six Path by some means or you face another Rinnegan User that has unlocked all of the Six Paths and you somehow kill him, taking his eye(s) or the latter.
Also this Eikan person sent me this:
To: 黒が発光 Eikan
Subject:
Sent: 2012-08-01 02:56:33
< Previous Next >
If you give me some time, I'll send you a list of my current jutsus.
---Original Message from 黒が発光 Eikan(2012-08-01 02:47:23)---
Well, i hope this does not offend you, but i was given your body to make into a human puppet. And seeing as you do not have a bio for me to access, i need to ask you what all you can do.
---Original Message from Haishiro Enishi(2012-08-01 02:45:54)---
Why do you ask?
---Original Message from 黒が発光 Eikan(2012-08-01 02:32:02)---
What were some of your jutsu while you were kamui?
I wasn't aware while under the Edo Tensei I could exist in two places at once...
But then again it happened to Sasori and what happened to him? He broke the Edo Tensei after he saw Kankurō had grown into a better puppet master then he was, entrusting him with his techniques and puppets.
This entire ordeal just gave me an idea on how I will approach my revival in the future so thank you. ;)
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Not claiming to HAVE 6 Paths right now, I want them. But yeah, your body exists, obviously, so why are you even bringing it up? Your soul is stuck in your zombie which is stuck in it's coffin until I need dusting done again, so good luck with that.
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Not claiming to HAVE 6 Paths right now, I want them. But yeah, your body exists, obviously, so why are you even bringing it up? Your soul is stuck in your zombie which is stuck in it's coffin until I need dusting done again, so good luck with that.
I'm bringing it up because I wanted to make sure if it was legit in the first place.
By the time I come up with something legitimately, you'll be long dead by the hands of Zenaku.
But even then I know you'll somehow use me to resurrect you and file a complaint when I come up with a legitimately way to escape your control after your "death" which I will submit to approval beforehand.
Edit;
I have mailed Yumei to remove my other guidelines and replace them with these.
Since it only links it from that wikipedia to here as "rulings".
@Bocchiere
You need to edit your little paragraph in that wiki when you state and I'll quote:
The Scroll
Though there are many ideas about the scroll of Edo Tensei many are false, it is required to do the jutsu, but not in the way many think. It does not teach one how to perform Edo Tensei but merely contains the initial seal for the technique, where one spreads the remains of the one to be revived. Though there were once scrolls that functioned otherwise they have all been destroyed.
Because I wasn't aware you destroyed Shinro's scroll as well as Ryuuji's scroll since he took it with him in his death...don't be a god-modder by claiming "Derp I destroyed everything and only kept one for myself."
You never even RP this out just used me as a NPC in small paragraph RP post to retrieve my scroll which you soon destroyed it afterwards.
Kamui himself doesn't have knowledge of Shinro's scroll nor that of his mortal enemy/rival Ryuuji's.
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I think the 6 path for zombies are reasonable given that they use your own chakra just like the paths, don't retain jutsu, etc. (save for bijuu)
The only difference is that they regenerate. But yeah, given that a lot of benefits are lost, I believe it should be approved. Ya lose some, ya win some.
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It'll be as legitimate as having Tsukuyomi be strong enough to reverse Edo Tensei commands and function completely differently than the actual jutsu, I'm sure.
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I think the 6 path for zombies are reasonable given that they use your own chakra just like the paths, don't retain jutsu, etc. (save for bijuu)
The only difference is that they regenerate. But yeah, given that a lot of benefits are lost, I believe it should be approved. Ya lose some, ya win some.
They wouldn't be Edo Tensei if they used my chakra >> that would be like having Sharingan that couldn't copy jutsu, just because.
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3 for Edo Tensei, 6 for Path of Pain(utilizing chakra receivers)
About the Human puppet thing though, if Kamui is a Edo Tensei zombie I don't think he has a body anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9MYrmPYuSM around 6:26 I don't see Torune's body anymore just his clothes and it's in a different position that when he was thrown at 4:34
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3 for Edo Tensei, 6 for Path of Pain(utilizing chakra receivers)
About the Human puppet thing though, if Kamui is a Edo Tensei zombie I don't think he has a body anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9MYrmPYuSM around 6:26 I don't see Torune's body anymore just his clothes and it's in a different position that when he was thrown at 4:34
That is the body, just the legs, which are clothed. You can see a hand (gloved) and a bit of arm too. Slightly different angle or plain old plot hole.
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Well duh, there a bunch of chakra enhancements that can make your chakra shoot up to the skies, that way you'd end up with people going for Kabuto-like armies.
But based on these rules, they take up a fourth of your chakra for battle, meaning, that at any given time, during any battle anywhere, the max you can use is four for battling, meaning that even if you summon up an army, according to these rules, you can only have four active for a fight at a time.
If you were trying to just say that and were just being funny about it, then I digress. >.>
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It'll be as legitimate as having Tsukuyomi be strong enough to reverse Edo Tensei commands and function completely differently than the actual jutsu, I'm sure.
I don't see it as anywhere near that bad. >>
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It'll be as legitimate as having Tsukuyomi be strong enough to reverse Edo Tensei commands and function completely differently than the actual jutsu, I'm sure.
I don't see it as anywhere near that bad. >>
As legitimate as having Jashism and Earth Grudge Fear.
"Derp You can't kill me because I am immortal and also I have five hearts at my disposal! Get through that first! lololol "
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Cremating.... Freezing.... Melting.... Soul Removing....
Like those aren't viable options.
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Disintegrating... slice in to hundreds of pieces.... shocking to death/paralyze... etc...
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Thing is there is always a way out, I've seen the guy just touch the Edo Tensei Scroll and it became engulfed in flames. :roll:
Disintegrating would be a great option if Jinton wasn't voided like most cellular ninjutsu.
The only thing that would work is Soul Removal but even then a user would have a hard time just touching his opponent to get the jutsu to become successful.
But like you are stating even Kinjustu has it's flaws and weaknesses. :oops:
But I digress from the topic, everyone is fine with starting out with three summons that take up a quarter of the summoner's chakras? Then the limit is is lifted upon reaching a certain level of power? (Six Paths)
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I still say edo tensei's limit is 3, but for rinnegan users they can just do the whole receivers/outer path healing thing and get up to the number of resets they have.
It would be like Nagato's 6 paths(which weren't edo tensei zombies)
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I still say edo tensei's limit is 3, but for rinnegan users they can just do the whole receivers/outer path healing thing and get up to the number of resets they have.
It would be like Nagato's 6 paths(which weren't edo tensei zombies)
Agreed.
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Then no one has any quarrel of me locking this topic then sticking it? :D
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For the sake of the future. :\
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I'll unlocked it whenever someone finds a flaw in usage of the technique. :oops:
For now, locked and sticky.
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Since Pete was nice enough to inform me he is gonna come void my rp in Iwa I thought I'd beat him to the punch and get a discussion going. So here we go.
- The resurrected CANNOT be someone else’s character that has or has had an SL account. The reincarnated MUST be your alternative characters; just any other character YOU had own and is no longer alive.
Why? This is why Pete says my rp is void, because I Edo Tensei'd Hideisamu. Why? According to him it is because "The rules that restricts reviving another SL player's account(s), are there so it won't ruin the SL experience through that manner." *shaking my head* What? I think that clashes slightly with the rule that requires you to sacrifice another players account to revive the zombie of your choosing. Also, if I can only revive my alts I might as well spend some money to get a full reset one and name change it over and over again and keep reviving all the people. This one has Jiton, this one has Bakuton, this one is a fuinjutsu master, and they are all Sage's of 6 Paths Grand Master Uchiha Kaguya Warlord Senjus. Yeah that sounds like a great idea.
- If the user wishes to resurrect a soul, they MUST travel to the soul’s birthplace, and MUST conduct an rp investigation for 5 days. If the soul’s birthplace cannot be found in SL’s village system, Jiseigakure can be used instead. During those days, the user must investigate publically and try any means to obtain the DNA of the target. After rping for 5 days, the user can start the ritual of Edo Tensei in a zone. If the user doesn’t resurrect their target in a zone, which can be viewed by everyone, then that reincarnation WILL be void in RP.
No. Pointless. If they are my alt I already have their DNA and when I kill someone and revive them I already have their DNA, this makes no sense, though yes I don't see why you wouldn't revive them in a zone for it to be seen.
- Interesting enough whilst the deceased is under the technique, their will is to their own according until the summoner states their 'trigger' seal to completely wipe the deceased personality and make it a mindless fighting puppet.
I bring this up because it seems to be inferring that we cannot uses Kabuto's brand of looser control. Why? If we could do that then people could still rp as their zombies if they wanted to. The only reason I NPC my guys is because normally everyone is all butt hurt over dying and won't help me, or they'd be like Kamui and constantly trying to escape.
- To summon a resurrected soul in battle, the user must render ¼ of their own chakras to keep the summoning bound to this world. The reincarnated MUST shared your action-limit per post, which is 1 attack, 1 defense, and 1 supplementary effect.
This should be applied to only official 1v1 battles like a bijuu fight. Why? Because as I realized whilst attacking Iwa this does not work whe you have multiple opponents. If I have one zombie on the north end of the city and one on the south and they both have kunai thrown at them one gets to defend itself and the other has to stand their and eat it because they share my one defensive action? It wouldn't make any sense.
- To keep order and tradition, the limit of resurrected individuals in battle will be 3. The number of resurrected souls outside battle, however, can be limitless as long as the user follows the rules.
Unless you have Rinnegan, natural pirated, that is over 3 Paths, for each path over three you can control one more zombie. Via Paths of Pain.
- Using the Edo Tensei summon for the vessel of a Bijuu is prohibited and any of the Bijuu's chakras that the Summon had obtain in their past life before death is NOT allowed.
I don't see why not? It's not like bijuu are common enough to be a problem. Whatever the argument is about being able to seal bijuu in Edo Tensei their is no point to denying the zombies bijuu chakra they have. If they used to be a host that is part of their character. If I was to get a zombie Cmage he would have steam chakra, that's what his character has, what is the point of forbidding something so minor?
*another post coming*
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Another problem I have with this whole situation is Pete handing down the rules as the King of Edo Tensei. "But it's his claimed technique Bocch!" That is up for debate, but it is not a jutsu Pete made up, it's a canon jutsu, claiming it means he can control WHO uses it, not HOW it is used. He and I are the only viable users of Edo Tensei, if there are going to be rules we should BOTH collaborate to make them and present them to the community for approval. He says these are the rules the Edo Tensei group made up I don't even know how many years ago... ok? So has he absorbed their collective consciousness and is able to decide all these things by himself? Why should I care? I was using Edo Tensei for a good year while Pete was gone and then he comes back and gets to control everything? It doesn't make sense and neither do a lot of the rules as I have pointed out, we should start fresh and make a whole new set of rules, considering we have learned more about Edo Tensei since the rules were made.
You might have noticed me mention something off hand near the beginning there, that Pete's claim is debatable, that is another big problem I have with all this. Back when I challenged Pete to get the bijuu back and our battle dragged on and on I offered to call the fight off if he taught me Edo Tensei, he agreed, and I was all set. Then Pete comes up to me later and tells me "Oh, Kamui proved he had Edo Tensei first so my claim is void and you don't have it." Ok... so I kill Kamui and get again, and now Pete decides, oh, he actually IS the original owner and gets to tell me how I use my jutsu. Here is a fun quote "Such are the rules, and such are to be followed. Although I was the one to allow you to wield my powers, I won't hesitate to void your rp if you're not following the rules of Edo Tensei. It's best to just cease questioning them because the rules are not up for debate. They are already made, and won't be changed. " I wasn't aware Pete had anything to do with me beating Kamui and Human Pathing him to get MY OWN Edo Tensei. I don't have to accept challenges from seated swordsmen in Kiri because I am not part of that group, I just have one of their swords. I don't owe my Edo Tensei in the tiniest bit to Pete, unless you want to say him apparently giving it to Kamui allowed me to get it. So him acting like my dang boss is just ridiculous.
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I would like to clarify for the hundredth time that I am not the one who originally claimed the technique, I had to go through Ryuuji then I was eventually made another user of the Edo Tensei.
The guide-lines are fine the way they are really, too be honest more rules need to be implemented, so it's power is somewhat downgraded and also to prevent users from abusing this technique, which I like to say isn't working out so well. :oops:
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I'm sorry I couldn't hear you with your head all the way up your ass. Nice job addressing NONE of the points I brought up though.
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I'm sorry I couldn't hear you with your head all the way up your ass. Nice job addressing NONE of the points I brought up though.
1.
Back when I challenged Pete to get the bijuu back and our battle dragged on and on I offered to call the fight off if he taught me Edo Tensei, he agreed, and I was all set. Then Pete comes up to me later and tells me "Oh, Kamui proved he had Edo Tensei first so my claim is void and you don't have it." Ok... so I kill Kamui and get again, and now Pete decides, oh, he actually IS the original owner and gets to tell me how I use my jutsu.
2.
I would like to clarify for the hundredth time that I am not the one who originally claimed the technique, I had to go through Ryuuji then I was eventually made another user of the Edo Tensei.
1.
He and I are the only viable users of Edo Tensei, if there are going to be rules we should BOTH collaborate to make them and present them to the community for approval. He says these are the rules the Edo Tensei group made up I don't even know how many years ago... ok? So has he absorbed their collective consciousness and is able to decide all these things by himself?
2.
The guide-lines are fine the way they are really, too be honest more rules need to be implemented, so it's power is somewhat downgraded and also to prevent users from abusing this technique, which I like to say isn't working out so well. :oops:
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I'm sorry I couldn't hear you with your head all the way up your ass. Nice job addressing NONE of the points I brought up though.
I'm considering locking this thread if you keep up the attitude and extending a ban into Shinobi Legends, which will also extend to the forums as well.
I don't need to address any of your points since they don't make a lick of sense and you contradict yourself by agreeing to the guide-lines at first then when it doesn't go your way, changes are needed to suit your RP.
Too bad, work with it like I had.
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I'm sorry I couldn't hear you with your head all the way up your ass. Nice job addressing NONE of the points I brought up though.
I'm considering locking this thread if you keep up the attitude and extending a ban into Shinobi Legends, which will also extend to the forums as well.
I don't need to address any of your points since they don't make a lick of sense and you contradict yourself by agreeing to the guide-lines at first then when it doesn't go your way, changes are needed to suit your RP.
Too bad, work with it like I had.
Where in that discussion did I agree to those rules? I said they made no sense and when I got back the topic was locked. You don't think it is contradictory that I can't revive other people account for their pleasure, but I have to sacrifice people to get my zombies? Or that if I did revive them I couldn't actually let them rp in fights?
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I'm not siding with anyone, yet to me most of what Bocc made sense especially:
- The resurrected CANNOT be someone else’s character that has or has had an SL account. The reincarnated MUST be your alternative characters; just any other character YOU had own and is no longer alive.
If so that means the whole meaning of Edo Tensei is thrown away as it can revive the dead, any dead. Along with what Bocc said he could just buy a stacked account and name change it, rp a death and edo tensei ritual for however many zombies he wants. An example that I want to bring up and have seen is when I first joined the site Trev was an Edo Tensei, by the hands of Pete in which the whole scenario became voided when apparently you Mr. Camel was claimed original the owner of Edo Contents, yet aside from that with those rules set that means even if Kamui and Pete both had legitimate rights to Edo Tensei Trev could have never been reincarnated? Although it was claimed that he was. >_>
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I'll unlocked it whenever someone finds a flaw in usage of the technique. :oops:
For now, locked and sticky.
Since I'll stay true to my word, I'm unlocking the old topic and merging them together.
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- The resurrected CANNOT be someone else’s character that has or has had an SL account. The reincarnated MUST be your alternative characters; just any other character YOU had own and is no longer alive.
Actually I have taken this rule into consideration, it doesn't need to be changed per se but re-worded so it's more understandable.
- To summon a resurrected soul in battle, the user must render ¼ of their own chakras to keep the summoning bound to this world. The reincarnated MUST shared your action-limit per post, which is 1 attack, 1 defense, and 1 supplementary effect.
This should be applied to only official 1v1 battles like a bijuu fight. Why? Because as I realized whilst attacking Iwa this does not work whe you have multiple opponents. If I have one zombie on the north end of the city and one on the south and they both have kunai thrown at them one gets to defend itself and the other has to stand their and eat it because they share my one defensive action? It wouldn't make any sense.
Actually it should apply to any sort of RP while you use the technique in any way, the zombies themselves are living shields and will always re-construct after being obliterated so the post order shouldn't matter in any way except during big events.
- To keep order and tradition, the limit of resurrected individuals in battle will be 3. The number of resurrected souls outside battle, however, can be limitless as long as the user follows the rules.
Unless you have Rinnegan, natural pirated, that is over 3 Paths, for each path over three you can control one more zombie. Via Paths of Pain.
Last I saw Yumei has the claims for the Six Path Technique so good luck with that. :)
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@1, Unless it is changing it to let me revive the people I kill I disagree.
@2 Yes it does matter, maybe you're fighting acads but occasionally the people I fight can rp. My zombies are not moving shields they are supposed to be tireless warriors. If only one can defend itself per turn, arbitrarily, I couldn't even make it through a village like Iwa without them being sealed.
@3 Yumei is claiming that because he says Gedo Mazo is the only source of chakra receivers, so anyone who wants to make a chakra sensitive metal could claim it. Like the stuff in Asuma's knuckle blades.
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I am of several minds concerning this topic.
1] Why should you, Bocc or anyone, abide by the rules set up when you had no say in their creation?
What game do you play where you get to make up the rules? If I become a bijuu host I am bound to the rules they come with regardless of if I had anything to do in their creation or not. If I play football I am also bound by the rules of the game and I certainly am not the creator of that game either.
However, if problems arise rules can certainly be modified as we have seen the game of football change over the YEARS. On SL we have a unique problem. It has to deal with Claimed Techniques. Since ownership was in the hands of others, regardless of how you came into its use, you must abide by the rules that are set up for it. And if the legit owners, rather than one who gains through battle, do not agree to such changes that you wish to make, then that is the end of it. Rather than try to bend everything to your own liking why not just deal with the hand you are dealt?
2] Zombies can only be your own alts.
[Rule #4 from SL.]
4. Yet: You are not allowed to make a multiaccount just to get yourself more donation points, gold, buffs (marriage), etc. To put it short, you should not do so to benefit one character through the other. If you do, punishment includes cancellation of credited donation points and a ban from the server.
To me this would also include RP rewards. Very rarely do I ever RP with one of my own alts. First it is no fun and I interpreted rule #4 to mean I should not do so. For may I not as a Konoha nin let my Suna nin in the gates so that I can attack Konoha? I call that cheating.
For this reason I also have to point out to Bocc that just because an account is your alt, it does not automatically mean that you had access to its DNA. Most of my alts do not even know each other in RP.
I believe that this rule about the zombies having to be Alts should be changed. I think that first of all we should get back to the Killing off of other people's characters to begin with. I want it banned. Unless the person agrees that they will fight to the death, with the understanding that they will then be turned into a zombie and are subject to having to RP as one belonging to another character. I believe that killing the character of another person is the WORST type of CHARACTER CONTROL there is. And it is an easy thing to kawarimi yourself out of battle and exit. If this escape from certain death is taken, then the character should not be allowed to enter the battle or go for help or effect it in any way afterwards until after the fighting is over and the issue at hand has been settled. Then the character should be allowed to return and deal with the consequences such as being branded a coward, or having to live in a hostile regime as an outlaw or other type of scenarios.
I believe that if Edo Tensei cannot be used upon other characters to create zombies that it should be banned from resurrecting folks as a boon as well.
Additionally. If I can only make alts my zombie then I am limited to my own leveling ability in creating a zombie with only those powers. It seems that my lesser accounts would only be leveled for the purpose of creating a zombie and the lengthy period to which I can level it to the right power level before I can even make one. Who wants a chuunin no reset Zombie when I can kill Cmage and gain all those cool things for my personal use? Yes yes...the infinite chakra pool of a chuunin would be cool BUT! I object to the infinite chakra pool in the first place even if it is canon. :P The dang gone Zombie is God mod enough already without that too!
3] Claimed Canon Jutsu [does not contradict point 1 as this is about game mechanic earned KGs and not specific claimed canon jutus]
This is a huge issue. Things that are taught in the academy or are able to be copied in battle of course are not the issue. Who dares to claim Kage Bunshin and prevent others from using it? But the Six Path Techniques? This is a game reset KG. I do not see how someone who works to gain the resets for a KG should then be denied their powers just because someone levels faster than they do and calls it first.
What does makes sense though is everyone having to create their own jutsu and crafting their own KG techniques. Similarities would not be an issue then if each were discovered independently and crafted by each individual user. Does anyone recall when this was the case with the Sharingan Techniques? But perhaps that is just too unwieldy.
But then maybe it is not? You are a reset character! That demands a higher level of RP and creativity anyway. Is it so wrong to expect this extra mile out of you the player?
4] Refusing to abide by the rules just because it is not changed to suit your specific needs?
I think that is a RP voiding offense.
Finally:
I believe that people should talk about stuff without making insulting remarks and slurs toward others as a means of making their case. That does not prove anything but that you can be insulting and that the person you are insulting, if what you say just happens to be true, is human. And who cares? It is one thing to RP your character as a jerk. It is quite another to BE a jerk and treat people in this game rudely or slander their names. I fully support banning for such offenses. I certainly do not enjoy being the object of scorn any more than I enjoy witnessing the same thing happening to others. It is a huge buzz kill all the way around.
And Bocc, that was not directed at you. I have a member in my own clan who is becoming a problematic troll. I do not come here to be 'mother' and discipline folk. I come here to play and have fun. This sort of behavior is not fun. And if a person believes it is, they should leave and go someplace where that type of game is appreciated; it has long since outlived its amusement factor on SL and the forum.
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One thing I will mention is the problem I have with following Pete's rules. He bull shits me constantly. He told me it was Kamui's jutsu, his claim is void, Kamui I'm not saying you're lying about it now, I'm sure it isn't. Kamui however did have "holder of the Edo Tensei scroll" in his bio while we fought. When things started to go south for Kamui it seems that it was decided that Pete all of a sudden had the scroll and was the creator again. The flip flopping to screw me over is nonsense. Pete has Edo Tensei and so do I, we should both make rules but neither of us should be in charge of the other.
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I normally wouldn't post on a topic like this, but, for one thing, it's clear that there are shenanigans going on.
Edo Tensei is that bish that won't shut up. You beat and beat, but it never gets quiet. The shotgun option stands of killing it, but there will be people to protest and get you arrested... Metaphor aside, I have reason to believe that if you attained the technique legitly, you should have a say in how it is run if the technique is canon. If it was custom, whole different ballpark that this left fielder doesn't wanna run to.
I'm not agreeing with all of Bocc's parts, but it seems fair that there should be some flexibility on a canon technique of all things! Hiraishin actually hasn't changed much from its canon counterpart, despite its potential for abuse, except for the fact that alot more people have it. Fair game, hardly anyone touched that. But Edo Tensei is on a whole different level; it's more than just auto-warping faster than I can shadow possess at the gates of Konoha (reference to my "fight" with Tomi at the gates for those who were slightly entertained by it). It's bringing back the super dead ninjas of the past to wreck havoc!
Funny though how not too many ninja die nowadays, but that's beside the point. (Imma kick myself later for saying this) There shouldn't be a single "founder" who makes all the rules on a canon technique!
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Found a fun loop hole, I summoned my Edo Tensei forces to attack Iwa. Now I'm just never going to unsummon, there for I never have to pay a chakra cost for them again.
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I thought it cost 25% of your chakra to maintain a single one? Meaning, you know, so long they're up, you're only at a fraction of your chakra the whole time.
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I thought it cost 25% of your chakra to maintain a single one? Meaning, you know, so long they're up, you're only at a fraction of your chakra the whole time.
Except that makes no sense and aren't how jutsu work. >> I've just decided that if we get right down to it Pete's claim is void. Kamui was claiming to be the creator into out fight and when he started going down hill suddenly Pete had it, anything rp-wise done during the fight would have been voided so I question whether Pete has Edo Tensei in any form, now less as emperor of it.
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If we get right down to it, everything we've used that's not canon is void. Your last post is void; so is mine.
25% to maintain a single body is how the rule went -- since Pete made the rules and you abode by them (at some point), take it up to him.
If it costs 25% chakra per, then you only maintain 25% of your own chakra.
If anything, cheer up because you might be able to pull off some crazy chakra-cap raise since you can push your limits somehow. Like, a kage-bunshin training or whatever.
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I never followed Pete's rules >> My only comment before this portion was mentioning some of the extra stupid ones and then it was locked when I got back. Pete told me I had to follow them and I told him he is gonna call me a god modder regardless so why bother?
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This must be what artistic inspiration feels like because I just thought of the biggest loop hole in these rules. :D
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Locking this up a bit.
I feel revisions, changes, and the likely are in favor in order to comply with the community and rules.
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So, it's simple. Do you think Edo Tensei should be voided from SL? If so, then vote yes and then post that you voted yes. If no, then vote no and then vote that you voted no.
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I voted yes, and I'll explain why.
Edo Tensei was more of a plot relevance than a legit thing in the series. Yes, it exists. Yes, it can be used. But in the manga/anime, the only reason this jutsu even existed was to draw out the war on Akatsuki, which was down to a mere Tobi/Madara, Sasuke and his silly group, Zetsu, Kisame and that's it. So to cover this, Kabuto was given Edo Tensei to use as a means to draw out the inevitable demise of the group and make the series longer - It's shonen, that's what they do.
But outside that and any slaps to the face incoming by possible changes to this story coming post-shinobi war, which I haven't read yet.
Edo Tensei ruins the game for RP. In an era where people don't care about the game itself, and in roleplay are mostly too self-consumed in gaining the best of the best jutsus possible without giving themselves a logical weakness at heart (Sasuke's arrogance and youth, Neji's blind spot, etc. etc.), having something that brings the dead back to life, at their prime and in service to you, being all but immortal, where does that leave new roleplayers?
Yes, the generation before will be stronger than the generation coming starting out. That's a given, You can't be an academy student at a young age, and expect to defeat the Hokage one versus one, but there's where growing takes place. Shinobi Legends won't exist forever and discouraging anyone new that comes by with people walking around with six or so of SL's best of the best before, at their prime, immortal, being able to destroy a village without giving a single care as to the drastic impact it'll have on the roleplay itself? That's just going to run off anyone new that -could- be joining SL, leaving us with people that are, for lack of better ways to describe it, getting older. Eventually they'll have to quit SL, and move on to life in general. And then we're left with... well. Nothing. The new generation didn't want to put up with edo tensei hogging the show eternally and the old just got old.
The game itself aside and focusing on roleplay at hand, well I'll be honest. When Edo Tensei are involved, I care significantly less about the summoner and master and more about them. The Edo Tensei is better than the owner is, in everything but hierarchy of being summoned. There's no character build or legacy growing from X summoning Y who defeats Z because he's a immortal zombie at his prime. It just means 'Hey. Don't mess with X, he has Y.', or 'He's pretty pathetic on his own, but Y...'.
I just don't see why we have to use Edo Tensei. When someone quits the game, let it rest. When someone dies, fine, if you can find a way to revive them that sounds at least somewhat logical, and possible for -your- character to do, roleplay it out. But don't sit here and say 'Hey.'
'Got five or six Edo Tensei'
'Going to go destroy Iwagakure, Kumogakure, Konohagakure...' etc. etc.
May as well have a shinobi legends where everyone worships Jashin if Edo Tensei is going to continue to play a role in it.
... Doesn't help that Edo Tensei causes drama everywhere it goes either, y'know?
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I voted no and I'll tell you why, since Edo Tensei is clearly a canon jutsu...if the community can come together as a whole to void even canon jutsu then I don't see why we can't do the same to canon or custom kekkei genkai/tota/jutsu.
If you want me to name a few examples that are way more OP then Edo Tensei, I would more then happy to provide them.
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Thank you both for doing as I asked instead of just voting. Alts can't really be used this way. Any who, people do void custom KG, KT, and jutsu. Usually when someone goes against an opponent with an OP custom jutsu they discuss it and it's either toned or voided/gotten rid of. Canon on the other hand isn't as simple as that since, well, it's canon. When it comes to Canon jutsu usually things like this have to happen or the majority of SL has to agree on it which is why Madara's reverse thing was voided because the majority of SL agreed it was way too OP. Also, if you fell that any other canon jutsu is OP then list it here or create your own poll.
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I voted yes.
Originally, I was going to vote no (contrary to common belief), in spite of its 'infinite chakra-possessing' and general 'more-(metaphorically)-immortal-than-Jashinism-immortality immortality' traits (although, only in regards to open roleplay, not necessarily bijuu battles or the sort where obviously the challenged would be placed at an obvious disadvantage), however, the fact that generally, it can be taught to technically anybody (as Bocc did with Trev) makes constructing an immortal army capable of utilizing jutsu's indiscriminately nothing more than child's play, put bluntly.
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I also voted yes, because I just feel the tech is abused. People tend to take advantage of a good thing. Honestly if it was limited to the person only being able to have 2 zombies then I would be a okay with it.... it really is a fun jutsu to be honest. An immortal opponent with unlimited chakra is quite a challenge and I find it fun to rp against. However, I feel that going out and making alts for your zombies is a no no, and that having a huge zombie army should be a no no. Really if you let a guy have as many zombies as he wants, Bocc for example (nothing personal), he can literally just keep making zombies and build his own village which in my eyes is what he did with Iwa.... what is the point in a man one village where one rper control everything?
I say instead of voting to get rid of the jutsu SL as a whole votes on how they would like to see it limited, remember this is SL where you have always (for the most part) had the freedom to create your character as you wish were on many rp sites (forums mainly) there are forbidden jutsu that can't be used. So I say just limit the jutsu and let Bocc keep doing his thing... I mean he should be more the willing to keep two Kage level zombies then lose them all don't you think?
P.S. Does no one like pie?
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The majority of SL has to agree on it which is why Madara's reverse thing was voided because the majority of SL agreed it was way too OP.
By majority do you mean the entire clan of Konohagakure no Sato? I hate to be blunt but I haven't seen anything be brought up about any of Uchiha Madara's jutsu within the Village Square.
Edit: Even though I am not particular happy with those that make Edo Tensei a toy be traded around with, my vote still stands firm.
A line must be drawn and I say voiding anything that is canon to the series is that very line.
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The majority of SL has to agree on it which is why Madara's reverse thing was voided because the majority of SL agreed it was way too OP.
By majority do you mean the entire clan of Konohagakure no Sato? I hate to be blunt but I haven't seen anything be brought up about any of Uchiha Madara's jutsu within the Village Square.
Edit: Even though I am not particular happy with those that make Edo Tensei a toy be traded around with, my vote still stands firm.
A line must be drawn and I say voiding anything that is canon to the series is that very line.
Actually, it was talked about in the MHQ when the chapter came out and multiple agreed that it was OP.
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The majority of SL has to agree on it which is why Madara's reverse thing was voided because the majority of SL agreed it was way too OP.
By majority do you mean the entire clan of Konohagakure no Sato? I hate to be blunt but I haven't seen anything be brought up about any of Uchiha Madara's jutsu within the Village Square.
Edit: Even though I am not particular happy with those that make Edo Tensei a toy be traded around with, my vote still stands firm.
A line must be drawn and I say voiding anything that is canon to the series is that very line.
Actually, it was talked about in the MHQ when the chapter came out and multiple agreed that it was OP.
Still...I can go into the Mission HQ and tell everyone that the Rinnegan is too OP on account of the Six Paths Technique associated with it not too mention each and every of the Path's unique abilities.
From there I can reach a consensus that would count as a majority even though if only a few individuals had their say in it, higher ranked or not.
The village square is a much better place to reach a consensus on such topics like this.
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I voted Ney. At first before voting I read some of your remarks on such and in just my opinion it seems you guys are mostly hating the player not the technique. >__>
So far Bocc is the only one I've seen really use it (Trev was later unclaimed as an edo tensei) so the 'abuse' really means he is abusing it. This made me wonder if the tech was never given to Bocc that this convo or thought would never come into play as I feel there are far more OP moves that are allowed; human path abilities right then and there, and more.
Though although I agree the Jashin has gone head over heels with the technique still doesn't mean it should get voided it is a legitimate technique after all. It doesn't make sense to take into effect the Manga/Anime relation with SL to be so literal. I would understand if per-say Edo Tensei wasn't an actual technique and it had been custom made, for it to be voided though it does exist.
The technique shouldn't get voided because of him. I personally see this alternate revival a great method, though used as an alternate revival for a character not just to build up an army for 1 sided fights. If anything is to be done a restriction on the techniques powers should be made to reduce the OPness
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Hell no! Why, cause I use it!
All joking a side, Edo Tensei does not need to be void from SL, however it needs to be nerfed, or rather rules made for it. I don't count Pete's rules, cause some of it's silly and numerous loopholes exist within it. If we start this void on cannon jutsu, well then get ready, cause a whole arsenal of OP techniques are gonna get thrown under the bus. No cannon jutsu should be voided, though for game sake, some should be nerfed in order to create a certain level of fairness. When first getting Edo Tensei, I mentioned to Kamui that the rules need to be updated.
Edo Tensei doesn't need to be obliterated from SL, just needs a good nerf and rules. Hell, I think even Hiraishin has some sort of Teacher-student rule from what Tsuyo tells me. But if this does somehow get voided, then lets address all the other OP things on SL:
Hiraishin
Village barriers
Sound Genjutsu
Lightning Armor
Rinnegan
Jinton
Mokuton
Etc
With all these things to pick from, yet Edo Tensei is chosen? Why? Cause you have a problem with the main user (Bocc), as Edo Tensei was used long before he got it, yet no problems.
Obviously this is a general statement and should not be used to describe everyone's reason, just my opinion on the matter.
Void:No
Rules:Yes
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Void:No
Moar Rules:Yes
Edited, and this.
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The question is who makes these rules? All of SL (Ridiculous) People who comment on the forum (Too many differentiating opinions, that I suspect won't be solved and will end in a lock like every other time) Edo Tensei users ( Probably not fair to everyone else)
As of right now, there basically are no rules. Bocc doesn't follow them and Kamui describes them as unofficial. Why? Cause only one person made it and contains far too many loopholes and some silly rules, making them go unfollowed.
As a new user, I just want to get things straight so I can actually use the technique without getting sent to the void.
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Void:No
Rules:Yes
Made an account just for this...and what Trev said is basically a summary of what needs to be done.
The rules need to be more strict, less room for loop holes, etc.
ALSO, When there is such a technique of this magnitude, there must be some sort of ramifications IMO
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Can I change my vote? Is there a way to unvote and then revote or something?
I am truly against the tech being voided (just didn't vote right cause my brain hurts from studying for finals). I still feel limits should be placed though towards the number of zombies one can possess at a time, and no alts to be used as zombies. (Truly SL started going down hill in some ways when the void card started getting tossed around so much... quit whining and go kill Bocc if you have that big a problem with him- something I have been preaching for awhile now- and I don't want to here why don't you do it then cause personally I have nothing wrong with Bocc and actually enjoy havign him around to mess with and rp with because he is challenging to rp with on several levels :P).
The Edo Zombie isn't that OP really, having a ton of zombies to the point you outnumber an opponent so bad they can't possibly do anything is. Hell did I not temporarily seal two of his zombies with Iwa NPC? <--- It can be done.
In the end changing my vote to: No Void & Pie cause pie is good.
*Adding: with my vote change that makes it Yes: 6 No: 7
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How about these (for starters):
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
- Those whose soul has been sealed away in an item or eaten cannot be summoned.
- Those who have previously been used as (Edo-)zombies cannot be used/reincarnated again (just to prevent re-usage of alts and the sort).
- Can only be used in open-RP, generally restricting them from usage in official 1 v 1 duels (i.e. Bijuu battles; too much of a disadvantage).
- Bijuu cannot be sealed inside of the zombies, even if they were previously jinchuuriki (it'd lead to too much drama in bijuu battles and the sort).
Anything else?
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Of course it is because I use it >_> as I said the limit for zombies is 6 in a battle, this is more than a reasonable limit as I do not bring them all out unless I am fighting a whole village. I beat Iwa with them because Iwa was a joke, I could have beaten Iwa with 4 acads. I'm more then fair with the jutsu as I've said multiple times, I tend to follow the 1 defense 1 attack etc for everyone most of the time anyway, unless they split up and fight one on one. Everybody launched attacks at us in Konoha and Hideisamu defended everyone, and so on.
I have 4 zombies with GM Uchiha, I've yet to have more than 1 use Susano'o at the same time, they all have bottomless chakra and I have yet to have one do Kage Bunshin in any fight. If I had 100 Edo Tensei bunshin with Susano'o wandering around then I could see how people might accuse me of abusing it. By canon logic I should be able to have many more zombies then Kabuto, I am a former jinchuriki with 4 assimilated Grand Master Uchiha hearts, but I don't have 45 zombies. The arguments against Edo are biased at best. Reimu is making it sound like I am running around killing every acad with my full force, and that's nonsense.
I agree completely with Yumei's rules though, we all know that's you Ashley.
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How about these (for starters):
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
Still feel 6 is to many. 2-3 is plenty they are immortal and never run out of chakra. Plus I think it should be taken into consideration that one shouldn't spam their post with to many turns in one post. Like Bocc said about is zombies before it isn't fair that he only gets two turns a post cause that leaves his other zombies undefended... therefor simple solution limit it to 2 zombies and the user so it isn't spamming.
*adding on to what Bocc said- Dude there is no need for six zombies. I mean get some followers you are a Kage after. No sense in running a one man village. And I have to say on your behalf you did in my opinion rather well with the rules when you came to Konoha and I hated I missed it.
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Uetto, I coud kiss you right now for your wise words! ;)
How about these (for starters):
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
- Those whose soul has been sealed away in an item or eaten cannot be summoned.
- Those who have previously been used as (Edo-)zombies cannot be used/reincarnated again (just to prevent re-usage of alts and the sort).
- Can only be used in open-RP, generally restricting them from usage in official 1 v 1 duels (i.e. Bijuu battles; too much of a disadvantage).
- Bijuu cannot be sealed inside of the zombies, even if they were previously jinchuuriki (it'd lead to too much drama in bijuu battles and the sort).
Anything else?
Forgot the obvious one, a PLAYER character is needed in the sacrifice. No npc. Meaning one Edo tensei = 2 lives
Don't know how I feel about the 1 v 1 rule, obliged to agree only in the case of biju battles.
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How about these (for starters):
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
Still feel 6 is to many. 2-3 is plenty they are immortal and never run out of chakra. Plus I think it should be taken into consideration that one shouldn't spam their post with to many turns in one post. Like Bocc said about is zombies before it isn't fair that he only gets two turns a post cause that leaves his other zombies undefended... therefor simple solution limit it to 2 zombies and the user so it isn't spamming.
As I said all 6 is for village attacks only, and I spread the attacks more than fairly, I don't believe I have ever attacked somebody with two zombies at the same time even.
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The majority of SL has to agree on it which is why Madara's reverse thing was voided because the majority of SL agreed it was way too OP.
By majority do you mean the entire clan of Konohagakure no Sato? I hate to be blunt but I haven't seen anything be brought up about any of Uchiha Madara's jutsu within the Village Square.
Edit: Even though I am not particular happy with those that make Edo Tensei a toy be traded around with, my vote still stands firm.
A line must be drawn and I say voiding anything that is canon to the series is that very line.
Actually, it was talked about in the MHQ when the chapter came out and multiple agreed that it was OP.
Still...I can go into the Mission HQ and tell everyone that the Rinnegan is too OP on account of the Six Paths Technique associated with it not too mention each and every of the Path's unique abilities.
From there I can reach a consensus that would count as a majority even though if only a few individuals had their say in it, higher ranked or not.
The village square is a much better place to reach a consensus on such topics like this.
And, that's why this is being discussed here.
I voted Ney. At first before voting I read some of your remarks on such and in just my opinion it seems you guys are mostly hating the player not the technique. >__>
So far Bocc is the only one I've seen really use it (Trev was later unclaimed as an edo tensei) so the 'abuse' really means he is abusing it. This made me wonder if the tech was never given to Bocc that this convo or thought would never come into play as I feel there are far more OP moves that are allowed; human path abilities right then and there, and more.
Though although I agree the Jashin has gone head over heels with the technique still doesn't mean it should get voided it is a legitimate technique after all. It doesn't make sense to take into effect the Manga/Anime relation with SL to be so literal. I would understand if per-say Edo Tensei wasn't an actual technique and it had been custom made, for it to be voided though it does exist.
The technique shouldn't get voided because of him. I personally see this alternate revival a great method, though used as an alternate revival for a character not just to build up an army for 1 sided fights. If anything is to be done a restriction on the techniques powers should be made to reduce the OPness
I actually find the technique to be too OP and not because Bocc' uses it.
Hell no! Why, cause I use it!
All joking a side, Edo Tensei does not need to be void from SL, however it needs to be nerfed, or rather rules made for it. I don't count Pete's rules, cause some of it's silly and numerous loopholes exist within it. If we start this void on cannon jutsu, well then get ready, cause a whole arsenal of OP techniques are gonna get thrown under the bus. No cannon jutsu should be voided, though for game sake, some should be nerfed in order to create a certain level of fairness. When first getting Edo Tensei, I mentioned to Kamui that the rules need to be updated.
Edo Tensei doesn't need to be obliterated from SL, just needs a good nerf and rules. Hell, I think even Hiraishin has some sort of Teacher-student rule from what Tsuyo tells me. But if this does somehow get voided, then lets address all the other OP things on SL:
Hiraishin
Village barriers
Sound Genjutsu
Lightning Armor
Rinnegan
Jinton
Mokuton
Etc
With all these things to pick from, yet Edo Tensei is chosen? Why? Cause you have a problem with the main user (Bocc), as Edo Tensei was used long before he got it, yet no problems.
Obviously this is a general statement and should not be used to describe everyone's reason, just my opinion on the matter.
Void:No
Rules:Yes
Three people know it.
Village Barriers are custom.
Sound Genjutsu doesn't move at the speed of sound so I don't see how you think it's OP.
Lol, no.
It's OP but it's a forest KG.
It's fine as long as that's the only thing people claim.
Forest KG.
Like I already said, I am not voiding it because of Bocc'. I am voiding it because I have always found it OP but I've been too lazy to do something about it. Regardless of such, if it gets nerfed to, like, one or two zombies and the user can't fight if they have two out instead of one, then I'll accept it regardless of what the poll says unless people really want it to be voided. Albeit, it doesn't seem like that's the case.
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Uetto, I coud kiss you right now for your wise words! ;)
How about these (for starters):
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
- Those whose soul has been sealed away in an item or eaten cannot be summoned.
- Those who have previously been used as (Edo-)zombies cannot be used/reincarnated again (just to prevent re-usage of alts and the sort).
- Can only be used in open-RP, generally restricting them from usage in official 1 v 1 duels (i.e. Bijuu battles; too much of a disadvantage).
- Bijuu cannot be sealed inside of the zombies, even if they were previously jinchuuriki (it'd lead to too much drama in bijuu battles and the sort).
Anything else?
Forgot the obvious one, a PLAYER character is needed in the sacrifice. No npc. Meaning one Edo tensei = 2 lives
Don't know how I feel about the 1 v 1 rule, obliged to agree only in the case of biju battles.
Yes, that rule.
I mentioned 'official duels' (bijuu battles being one of these cases), not necessarily unofficial ones such as casual spars and the sort.
As for the zombie limit, 6 is the absolute maximum. If there's however, less defenders than there are zombies, in the scenario of a village invasion, then the zombie-quantity should be properly adjusted.
Edit: And Nathan, there are more (active) players who know Hiraishin.
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I had someone come with me, Kayenta banshee screeched her away. Kage was on my side too, I bring people when I can but I like Edo because it lets me do my village attacks which, lets be honest, is nearly unique to me at this point. With Edo it can be just me and it moves things along a lot faster then if I brought 6 people from Iwa.
edit
Thanks for the compliment too, Kirk.
edit@ Yumei alt #2
I'm also ok with making it a rule I cannot outnumber people if there are less then 6 defenders.
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How about these (for starters):
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
Still feel 6 is to many. 2-3 is plenty they are immortal and never run out of chakra. Plus I think it should be taken into consideration that one shouldn't spam their post with to many turns in one post. Like Bocc said about is zombies before it isn't fair that he only gets two turns a post cause that leaves his other zombies undefended... therefor simple solution limit it to 2 zombies and the user so it isn't spamming.
As I said all 6 is for village attacks only, and I spread the attacks more than fairly, I don't believe I have ever attacked somebody with two zombies at the same time even.
Feels that Bocchie has a point 6 zombies village only and It keeps activity going which is harder to find these days, but other fight I think 2-3 should be the limit like Uetto was saying but for Bijuu fights maybe 1 or 2.
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I meant to put 'like' three users. Also, the picture of yours, Bocc', is pretty funny. Almost as funny as Hidan meets a dinosaur. XD
Any who, like I said the limit should be, like, two. Six is too many. If any thing five should be the maximum.
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So could it be thought that one may not use a number of zombies that outnumbers their opponent? And I said in the beginning all sacrifices should be done with real player none alts.
The main reason I said 2-3 is because I feel on Iwa's behalf (maybe not my place to but oh well) that they should strive to get a few more active members to join in on Bocc's doing and it not be a one man village that is all.
@Bocc: I give credit where I see it due.
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I meant to put 'like' three users. Also, the picture of yours, Bocc', is pretty funny. Almost as funny as Hidan meets a dinosaur. XD
Any who, like I said the limit should be, like, two. Six is too many. If any thing five should be the maximum.
This is what makes me feel like the limit is gonna be arbitrary at best ^ "Let's have like, 2, or 3, or 5." Just give me my 6 zombies, I have a good thing going.
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I meant to put 'like' three users. Also, the picture of yours, Bocc', is pretty funny. Almost as funny as Hidan meets a dinosaur. XD
Any who, like I said the limit should be, like, two. Six is too many. If any thing five should be the maximum.
This is what makes me feel like the limit is gonna be arbitrary at best ^ "Let's have like, 2, or 3, or 5." Just give me my 6 zombies, I have a good thing going.
Are some of your zombies not from yoru own alts? I may be wrong but I think so. I mean you have 2 Kage level Zombies & Tau.
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What about nerfs to the technique? As I recall the old rules had a 25% chakra tax. Though that was silly, as no matter the user it was 25% and could be avoided by summoning your zombies once and have them always out, while your chakra recovers. Any suggestions? Perhaps make the technique cost little chakran and replace it with a new nerf?
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The limit can be six in village attacks but not in one on one fights. However, where are you going to find six people to sacrifice? As for Bijuu fights, no edos.
Edit: As for a chakra limit, I say 10% to summon them and your chakra is constantly zapped away as long as you have them out. So, every three or four turns you lose 5% chakra for each zombie you have out. Is that good or should the turn limit be higher?
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So far:
- Only deceased players can be used. Their DNA must also have been procured by the user of Edo Tensei.
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
- Those whose soul has been sealed away in an item or eaten cannot be reanimated.
- Those who have previously been used as (Edo-)zombies cannot be used/reanimated again (just to prevent re-usage of alts and the sort).
- Can only be used in open-RP, generally restricting them from usage in official 1 v 1 duels (i.e. Bijuu battles; too much of a disadvantage).
- In the case where the Edo Tensei user is attacking a village, they must limit their usable zombie count (from a maximum of 6) according to the number of defenders.
- Bijuu cannot be sealed inside of the zombies, even if they were previously jinchuuriki (it'd lead to too much drama in bijuu battles and the sort).
As for a chakra-dependent nerf, why not make it for each zombie active on the battlefield, a certain amount of Edo Tensei's user's chakra is depleted per post? Say 1-5% per zombie? While summoning them costs what, 10-20% of the user's chakra?
A little too much?
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What about nerfs to the technique? As I recall the old rules had a 25% chakra tax. Though that was silly, as no matter the user it was 25% and could be avoided by summoning your zombies once and have they always out, while your chakra recovers. Any suggestions? Perhaps make the technique cost little chakran and replace it with a new nerf?
Nerf it like the more zombies you have the higher possibly they go on their own and not under the users control like Itachi did in the Manga.
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The limit can be six in village attacks but not in one on one fights. However, where are you going to find six people to sacrifice? As for Bijuu fights, no edos.
I think they should be used in 1 v 1 fights (Excluding biju fights) Say, so and so challenges me when I'm on route to a village (Hence not a village fight) Shouldn't I be allowed to use Edo Tensei? Six people to sacrifice could be anyone, as long as they are player characters, and not alts.
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I meant to put 'like' three users. Also, the picture of yours, Bocc', is pretty funny. Almost as funny as Hidan meets a dinosaur. XD
Any who, like I said the limit should be, like, two. Six is too many. If any thing five should be the maximum.
This is what makes me feel like the limit is gonna be arbitrary at best ^ "Let's have like, 2, or 3, or 5." Just give me my 6 zombies, I have a good thing going.
Are some of your zombies not from yoru own alts? I may be wrong but I think so. I mean you have 2 Kage level Zombies & Tau.
Yes, half my force, if we want to make it a rule no alts from now on I will follow it but I'm not going to kill off half my army and all the characters I actually like. Just like the Rinnegan revelation stuff, people like Luka did not get screwed and told he cannot have Rinnegan ever. Let's be honest, I have 2 others kages that I killed, I could get a few more if I wanted to and replace them with equally powerful people, so why bother?
@ Nathan
I've been selling Jiongu for living bodies, I have at least 6 remaining after reviving my 6, I don't know for sure since my lap top and the list was lost to me, but 6 is a conservative estimate, certainly under the actual number.
@ Yumei
Doing anything with the chakra is pointless, I summon Tau, he summons two snakes, one on him and one on me, chakra transfer jutsu. My chakra goes up forever.
@Styx
Itachi used Kotoamatsukami on himself, and yeah, that could break the control here too.
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The limit can be six in village attacks but not in one on one fights. However, where are you going to find six people to sacrifice? As for Bijuu fights, no edos.
I think they should be used in 1 v 1 fights (Excluding biju fights) Say, so and so challenges me when I'm on route to a village (Hence not a village fight) Shouldn't I be allowed to use Edo Tensei? Six people to sacrifice could be anyone, as long as they are player characters, and not alts.
I meant in one on one fights you can't use six zombies. Lower the number to, like, four or something.
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Hmmm. What about this new http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Body_Recreation_Technique (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Body_Recreation_Technique)? >>;
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Hmmm. What about this new http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Body_Recreation_Technique (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Body_Recreation_Technique)? >>;
Rakudo claimed it and his version is silly. He puts DNA in clay and they turn into people that can blow up.
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Who is to say how much chakra is 20%? How much is 100%? This isn't a form where people have an actual total of chakra points to use and jutsu take away x-amount of chakra... that is just silly in my thoughts. The only limit that should be made is to the number of zombies that can be used- zombie to opponent ratio should be 1:1 meaning if you are facing one person you get to use one zombie, and so on and so on.
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Who is to say how much chakra is 20%? How much is 100%? This isn't a form where people have an actual total of chakra points to use and jutsu take away x-amount of chakra... that is just silly in my thoughts. The only limit that should be made is to the number of zombies that can be used- zombie to opponent ratio should be 1:1 meaning if you are facing one person you get to use one zombie, and so on and so on.
Here here!
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I meant to put 'like' three users. Also, the picture of yours, Bocc', is pretty funny. Almost as funny as Hidan meets a dinosaur. XD
Any who, like I said the limit should be, like, two. Six is too many. If any thing five should be the maximum.
This is what makes me feel like the limit is gonna be arbitrary at best ^ "Let's have like, 2, or 3, or 5." Just give me my 6 zombies, I have a good thing going.
Are some of your zombies not from yoru own alts? I may be wrong but I think so. I mean you have 2 Kage level Zombies & Tau.
Yes, half my force, if we want to make it a rule no alts from now on I will follow it but I'm not going to kill off half my army and all the characters I actually like. Just like the Rinnegan revelation stuff, people like Luka did not get screwed and told he cannot have Rinnegan ever. Let's be honest, I have 2 others kages that I killed, I could get a few more if I wanted to and replace them with equally powerful people, so why bother?
@ Nathan
I've been selling Jiongu for living bodies, I have at least 6 remaining after reviving my 6, I don't know for sure since my lap top and the list was lost to me, but 6 is a conservative estimate, certainly under the actual number.
@ Yumei
Doing anything with the chakra is pointless, I summon Tau, he summons two snakes, one on him and one on me, chakra transfer jutsu. My chakra goes up forever.
@Styx
Itachi used Kotoamatsukami on himself, and yeah, that could break the control here too.
So, you have six hearts or six people gave you random people in exchange for you to give them EGF?
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The latter, 6 living people.
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Were they actual people or there alts?
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
What I meant is I don't think either of you will run around teaching it to everyone. And perhaps it would be good to make that rule apply as well.
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
What I meant is I don't think either of you will run around teaching it to everyone. And perhaps it would be good to make that rule apply as well.
Sure, if I ever want to teach it to someone else I'll just kill Trev.
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
What I meant is I don't think either of you will run around teaching it to everyone. And perhaps it would be good to make that rule apply as well.
Sure, if I ever want to teach it to someone else I'll just kill Trev.
Lol, well it defiantly limits the amount of people able to use it, so I think that it should be a rule.
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
What I meant is I don't think either of you will run around teaching it to everyone. And perhaps it would be good to make that rule apply as well.
Sure, if I ever want to teach it to someone else I'll just kill Trev.
Lol, well it defiantly limits the amount of people able to use it, so I think that it should be a rule.
Now, can I cheat and have Kamui zombie teach someone else? He is another holder.
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
What I meant is I don't think either of you will run around teaching it to everyone. And perhaps it would be good to make that rule apply as well.
Sure, if I ever want to teach it to someone else I'll just kill Trev.
Lol, well it defiantly limits the amount of people able to use it, so I think that it should be a rule.
Now, can I cheat and have Kamui zombie teach someone else? He is another holder.
No.... I say to users at a time for another to learn one must die.... honestly I think that is how Flying Thunder God should be no more then 2 users at a time.
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Me and Tsuyo are the only active users, just void everyone else!
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Me and Tsuyo are the only active users, just void everyone else!
It should be you and Dark, but that is off topic another discussion I suppose. Guess we should wait for otres to start posting again....
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So basically make the rule where two people only can use edo
Must sacrifice a person for the zombies and no alts
Zombie count hasn't really be agreed on...
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Should there be a master-student rule like Hiraishin (Assuming that's a real rule and Tsuyo wasn't screwing with me) Where only one person can teach it. Meaning I can't teach anyone until Bocc dies, and Bocc can't teach anyone else until I die?
That is in fact a rule and I don't think Bocc will teach anyone sense it is his prized jutsu...
I did teach Trev, sooooooo. And I dun know, they were accounts that I've seen rp and such.
As long as they weren't alts it's fine.
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So basically make the rule where two people only can use edo
Must sacrifice a person for the zombies and no alts
Zombie count hasn't really be agreed on...
1:1 ratio zombie to opponent; 6 at max
That seems to be the best solution in my opinion
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So basically make the rule where two people only can use edo
Must sacrifice a person for the zombies and no alts
Zombie count hasn't really be agreed on...
1:1 ratio zombie to opponent; 6 at max
That seems to be the best solution in my opinion
Ok that sounds good and I agree ^
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Deal.
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Perhaps I should clarify what I meant then, Bocc.
I wasn't making it sound like you were doing anything like that, but rather what I've heard from around SL, with your attack on Konoha, threat on Kumo, and ravage of Iwa. Now granted I don't know anything about Iwa and I can safely assume that it's an unloved village - it's pretty bland in Naruto and out.
My beef however, isn't with you, it's with Edo Tensei in general. I dislike the idea of X is as strong as his zombies, because it's not like Edo Tensei is restricted, blood only. You can be taught it or learn it on your own if you nab the scroll. That being said.
I'd be happy to change my vote to No if restrictions on placed on the cap of zombies obtainable, limitations on how many you can use against a village based on how many defenders are actually there, and, what truly made me vote yes, when an Edo Tensei ends, that soul can't be used again.
Edo Tensei are at their prime. Lord knows I don't want Zenaku as a edo tensei at his prime, immortal and with limitless chakra running around, getting ended, and then being brought right back after a battle ends through someone elses body.
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Perhaps I should clarify what I meant then, Bocc.
I wasn't making it sound like you were doing anything like that, but rather what I've heard from around SL, with your attack on Konoha, threat on Kumo, and ravage of Iwa. Now granted I don't know anything about Iwa and I can safely assume that it's an unloved village - it's pretty bland in Naruto and out.
My beef however, isn't with you, it's with Edo Tensei in general. I dislike the idea of X is as strong as his zombies, because it's not like Edo Tensei is restricted, blood only. You can be taught it or learn it on your own if you nab the scroll. That being said.
I'd be happy to change my vote to No if restrictions on placed on the cap of zombies obtainable, limitations on how many you can use against a village based on how many defenders are actually there, and, what truly made me vote yes, when an Edo Tensei ends, that soul can't be used again.
Edo Tensei are at their prime. Lord knows I don't want Zenaku as a edo tensei at his prime, immortal and with limitless chakra running around, getting ended, and then being brought right back after a battle ends through someone elses body.
Pretty much everything you just mentioned I have agreed to. >_>
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One point I need to make, the no returning thing, this assumes that the soul was forced out of the body and the zombie was killed. I don't want to see anyone wrapping up a zombie in a cloth and saying "Nope, it's gone forever now.
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One point I need to make, the no returning thing, this assumes that the soul was forced out of the body and the zombie was killed. I don't want to see anyone wrapping up a zombie in a cloth and saying "Nope, it's gone forever now.
Yep.
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One point I need to make, the no returning thing, this assumes that the soul was forced out of the body and the zombie was killed. I don't want to see anyone wrapping up a zombie in a cloth and saying "Nope, it's gone forever now.
If it is sealed then it is sealed simple as that. Unless of course it because unsealed, like the two I sealed that time.
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One point I need to make, the no returning thing, this assumes that the soul was forced out of the body and the zombie was killed. I don't want to see anyone wrapping up a zombie in a cloth and saying "Nope, it's gone forever now.
If it is sealed then it is sealed simple as that. Unless of course it because unsealed, like the two I sealed that time.
I'm not saying you cannot seal zombies, but if their soul is still in the body then they can be released.
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Alternatively, they can remained sealed and stored somewhere until somebody else discovers them, and undoes the seal. This wouldn't however, end the technique on those zombies, hence not making their respective soul vacant to reanimate.
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So as long as a zombie isn't sealed forever or completely destroyed, its reusable.
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One point I need to make, the no returning thing, this assumes that the soul was forced out of the body and the zombie was killed. I don't want to see anyone wrapping up a zombie in a cloth and saying "Nope, it's gone forever now.
If it is sealed then it is sealed simple as that. Unless of course it because unsealed, like the two I sealed that time.
I'm not saying you cannot seal zombies, but if their soul is still in the body then they can be released.
Not if the seal is strong enough, it'll pretty much restrict the whole zombie until either someone dispels Edo Tensei.
As long as no damage isn't done to the soul, it can be re-usable if you ever get it unsealed again.
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Just making sure that's clear.
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If an Edo Tensei user is slain while they have zombies in their 'kill-bot' state sealed up, does the former personalities of these zombies resurface, or attempt to follow through with the orders they were originally given, until they've been exhausted of them, and simply remain in a dormant state due to having no orders at all to act upon?
Edit: This being a post-unsealing scenario.
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If an Edo Tensei user is slain while they have zombies in their 'kill-bot' state sealed up, does the former personalities of these zombies resurface, or attempt to follow through with the orders they were originally given, until they've been exhausted of them, and simply remain in a dormant state due to having no orders at all to act upon?
Edit: This being a post-unsealing scenario.
It's entirely up to summoner if that particular summon retains some of their free-will or they have their personalities erased and are in their kill-mode, however killing the summoner simply won't dispel the Edo Tensei summons.
They will do as they're ordered even if the summoner dies and continue their previous actions.
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(http://tinyurl.com/b4wsrpu)
Should it be ruled then (we only know that if Edo Tensei itself is ended via the required hand seals, the zombies briefly regain their former personalities; all while knowing nothing of what happens when the user is killed without first ending the technique) that as you've mentioned, that the zombies regain their personalities after they've fulfilled their given orders, while still in their kill-bot state.
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I voted "yes" after looking over the conversation. Ironically that actually caused me to reject Edo Tensei.
My reasons may be unreasonable to some, but here I go. The zombies cannot be killed, near limitless chakra if not limitless, revived in their prime (this is not a gartunee since that old Suna lady was revived as an old lady), and in the case of dead Kage being used, they have the knowledge of their past life which, quite honestly, if someone very creative took advantage of, gives the summoner the perfect teacher for any non-bloodline technique.
On the flip side, I"m aware that they can be sealed away or defeated by soul stealing techniques, their personalities can be wiped, and most people will revive the zombies in their prime anyways. Bocc, imo, handled it very well during the Attack on Konoha, as all he needed was to use two zombies and himself to get the job done: Hide for offensive force, Himself to use susano'o, and Tau [who had his free will btw] to counter my companion's sound genjutsu (btw, whoever it was, Nathan I believe, who says sound genjutsu doesn't travel at the speed of sound, it actually does).
Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself though, as I have seen some summons and people that could almost pass for a few of the above traits. All I would really need is one zombie to do combo attacks with and I'd be golden (only one I would get for that and he aint becoming a zombie anytime soon). My last worry is that someone will indeed ask Bocc or Trev to make them a zombie so that they can go running around in the service of themselves or whatever faction, with Bocc being the only convenient noose to tie them up.
If Bocc chose six great people who would be willing to follow him and made them zombies, he wouldn't need anyone else to defend the village, thus, he wouldn't have need for the popularity to get a huge gathering under his wing as loyal subjects, becuase, seriously, who attacks a village with even two near immortal people guarding it? If you say Bocc, I'll have to point out that both Rares and Yumei were unavailable at the time for their own reasons. :P
Just my take on the whole matter. Maybe as a custom technique overhaul Nara I'm overestimating the scope that people will actually think to use this technique. :-?
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I voted "yes" after looking over the conversation. Ironically that actually caused me to reject Edo Tensei.
My reasons may be unreasonable to some, but here I go. The zombies cannot be killed, near limitless chakra if not limitless, revived in their prime (this is not a gartunee since that old Suna lady was revived as an old lady), and in the case of dead Kage being used, they have the knowledge of their past life which, quite honestly, if someone very creative took advantage of, gives the summoner the perfect teacher for any non-bloodline technique.
On the flip side, I"m aware that they can be sealed away or defeated by soul stealing techniques, their personalities can be wiped, and most people will revive the zombies in their prime anyways. Bocc, imo, handled it very well during the Attack on Konoha, as all he needed was to use two zombies and himself to get the job done: Hide for offensive force, Himself to use susano'o, and Tau [who had his free will btw] to counter my companion's sound genjutsu (btw, whoever it was, Nathan I believe, who says sound genjutsu doesn't travel at the speed of sound, it actually does).
Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself though, as I have seen some summons and people that could almost pass for a few of the above traits. All I would really need is one zombie to do combo attacks with and I'd be golden (only one I would get for that and he aint becoming a zombie anytime soon). My last worry is that someone will indeed ask Bocc or Trev to make them a zombie so that they can go running around in the service of themselves or whatever faction, with Bocc being the only convenient noose to tie them up.
If Bocc chose six great people who would be willing to follow him and made them zombies, he wouldn't need anyone else to defend the village, thus, he wouldn't have need for the popularity to get a huge gathering under his wing as loyal subjects, becuase, seriously, who attacks a village with even two near immortal people guarding it? If you say Bocc, I'll have to point out that both Rares and Yumei were unavailable at the time for their own reasons. :P
Just my take on the whole matter. Maybe as a custom technique overhaul Nara I'm overestimating the scope that people will actually think to use this technique. :-?
That was all reasons why I, specifically, shouldn't have Edo Tensei, which not a reason to void the jutsu on all of SL. I hope people don't actually think I'm going to void it if the pole says so. We've already agreed on rules and the forum does not represent everyone on the site anyway. >_> Not to mention there are 17 votes at the time I'm posting now and about 10 people who've commented. Meaning people who, again, are not voting an whether Edo Tensei is voided from SL, but whether Edo Tensei is voided from Bocchiere, in which case they say yes and leave. Can a mod see the people who have voted? As I'm not counting people who didn't post an argument with their vote.
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Eric, you said I did it fine when I attacked Konoha, so this is the argument I'm hearing. "Oh yes, Bocch handled it just fine, but I don't like it anyway, void it." Yeah, bout that. >_>
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I voted "yes" after looking over the conversation. Ironically that actually caused me to reject Edo Tensei.
My reasons may be unreasonable to some, but here I go. The zombies cannot be killed, near limitless chakra if not limitless, revived in their prime (this is not a gartunee since that old Suna lady was revived as an old lady), and in the case of dead Kage being used, they have the knowledge of their past life which, quite honestly, if someone very creative took advantage of, gives the summoner the perfect teacher for any non-bloodline technique.
On the flip side, I"m aware that they can be sealed away or defeated by soul stealing techniques, their personalities can be wiped, and most people will revive the zombies in their prime anyways. Bocc, imo, handled it very well during the Attack on Konoha, as all he needed was to use two zombies and himself to get the job done: Hide for offensive force, Himself to use susano'o, and Tau [who had his free will btw] to counter my companion's sound genjutsu (btw, whoever it was, Nathan I believe, who says sound genjutsu doesn't travel at the speed of sound, it actually does).
Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself though, as I have seen some summons and people that could almost pass for a few of the above traits. All I would really need is one zombie to do combo attacks with and I'd be golden (only one I would get for that and he aint becoming a zombie anytime soon). My last worry is that someone will indeed ask Bocc or Trev to make them a zombie so that they can go running around in the service of themselves or whatever faction, with Bocc being the only convenient noose to tie them up.
If Bocc chose six great people who would be willing to follow him and made them zombies, he wouldn't need anyone else to defend the village, thus, he wouldn't have need for the popularity to get a huge gathering under his wing as loyal subjects, becuase, seriously, who attacks a village with even two near immortal people guarding it? If you say Bocc, I'll have to point out that both Rares and Yumei were unavailable at the time for their own reasons. :P
Just my take on the whole matter. Maybe as a custom technique overhaul Nara I'm overestimating the scope that people will actually think to use this technique. :-?
That was all reasons why I, specifically, shouldn't have Edo Tensei, which not a reason to void the jutsu on all of SL. I hope people don't actually think I'm going to void it if the pole says so. We've already agreed on rules and the forum does not represent everyone on the site anyway. >_> Not to mention there are 17 votes at the time I'm posting now and about 10 people who've commented. Meaning people who, again, are not voting an whether Edo Tensei is voided from SL, but whether Edo Tensei is voided from Bocchiere, in which case they say yes and leave. Can a mod see the people who have voted? As I'm not counting people who didn't post an argument with their vote.
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Eric, you said I did it fine when I attacked Konoha, so this is the argument I'm hearing. "Oh yes, Bocch handled it just fine, but I don't like it anyway, void it." Yeah, bout that. >_>
Bocchiere, if you actually understood what I had intended to say, then you would be taking offense for a different reason than that someone has it out for you. You of all people should know I don't have it out for you.
I've already made my post, but I guess I'll need to elaborate with fewer words. What if some underdog, who has nothing better to do than to tinker around with the mechanics of things, got the technique at some point in the future? Would they not be able to have the greatest minds of SL, in some sense, teach them the greatest techniques of SL?
In fact, grab a sharingan and a zombie and we'll have a training session, you and me; I'll copy any techniques that I can while you perform them endlessly for me. Saying no is a no-no becuase I control you. I'll find a way to get at your bloodline ones too once I evolve to Rinnegan, where I insta-master all of the elements and thus, in theory, can perform any elemental KG.
Granted you can technically do that anyways with Rinnegan if you really look at it, but that's my take on it. Honestly, I have yet to see you do it yet, and I just reasoned it was becuase you either didn't want to abuse it or you didn't realize what you had.
I don't like the technique and I think it should be removed, or limits be imposed on the zombies themselves.
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I vote no. Because people whine too much about canon OP, when everyone else is ok with custom OP.
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*Sits munching popcorn hungrily looking at the votes*
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I hope people don't actually think I'm going to void it if the pole says so.
So, then you're admitting that it's alright to disregard a majority of players (who bothered to vote) as long as a 'certain few' allow it?
And as for why I voted yes it should be banned; The Zombies are just overpowered. It doesn't matter WHO uses it, having a zombie with the ability to regenerate endlessly and have infinite chakra is absurd. If we changed how the zombies themselves worked it would even out, but having the ability to summon even one zombie in a 1v1 fight that has endless chakra is, in my opinion, far too strong.
Maybe keep their immortality, but get rid of their endless chakra. Because in that situation, as long as the user has a single Zombie up in a 1v1 fight he can outlast his opponent no matter what.
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Most of you guys want it void cause you claim it is too powerful, yet most have never fought one in SL. You sure it's because it's too overpowered, or you don't want to make an effort or have a challenge. Perfect example is Uetto who used two generic Doton/sealing npcs almost took down a zombie and with more effort and help, probably would have succeeded too. You guys are going on how it can be abused, but really any technique can be used. Someone could easily mark like 100 kunai with hiraishin, seal them up in a scroll and throw them out, creating 100 reusable hiraishin points. Does this mean hiraishin should be banned? As Eric said, the Rinnegan could in theory allow every kg to be used, does this mean it should be banned? I could go on and on with just about any technique and how it can be abused, yet they would remain legit.
Once more,
Void:No
Rules:Yes
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Edo Tensei has always been around, and now people want to void it because someone has been making efficient use of it? This seems a bit biased, since a Rinnegan-user with a biju can easily cause a lot more chaos and destruction than some Edo Tensei zombies. What can be even more destructive than that? Sage Mode user + natural energy gatherers = unlimited supply of senjutsu chakra, which amplifies normal jutsu by a lot.
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You have to resupply your senjutsu, unless of course you use a certain gimmick, and even then, you have to combine it with your own physical and mental energy, suggesting that there is a limit to how much it can be restored, as only 2/3 of the energy used to power a technique before is coming from you while you are in Sage mode. And I was one of those that wanted Rinnegan gone, but alas, that didn't take off anywhere. xD
And Edo Tensei, like most techniques, has not always been around. To my knowledge, usage before my time was minimal, during my first go round it was minimal to non-existant, and I dunno about my break time. After that break time, the current time, I didn't see it used again in RP until Kabuto brought the jutsu back up in the manga.
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Also, I don't even know why a poll is being used, as it certainly won't be followed. Not saying that because things aren't going my way, (vote wise) but not everyone who has voted is explaining why, and we'll just gonna run into the same problem with the biju council poll. You can't tell if alts vote or not and people are gonna want to be anonymous like last time. Don't know why were using a system that has proven to be broken and not work.
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Also, I don't even know why a poll is being used, as it certainly won't be followed. Not saying that because things aren't going my way, (vote wise) but not everyone who has voted is explaining why, and we'll just gonna run into the same problem with the biju council poll. You can't tell if alts vote or not and people are gonna want to be anonymous like last time. Don't know why were using a system that has proven to be broken and not work.
Two things:
1. The poll, as of now, is useless because I already agreed that I'd ignore if a better rule system was created.
2. I wasn't counting the person's vote if they didn't post that they voted. Doing it this way somewhat eliminates the alt thing.
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Yes Edo Tensei was always around,yet Edo Tensei is ,or rather was kinda of a plot no jutsu, like so many other things. Yes i vote for yes void it 'Cause i dislike it. There is no reason why i can't do that,right? XD
Furthermore do we have enough people to even enforce the 'rules' on the players. Bocchiere doesn't even listen to the mods ? XD Well sometimes.
Or Admin...
And there will always another 'genius' who will simply claim it,or even get it and spam us with zombies or something else.
However i kinda think that instead of voiding technique,we should think of a proper loose plot line for proper working rp . XD but this is just my thoughts....so yeah up to you ,whether you read that all,or not.
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Must I really give a reason for my vote to void it?
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I hope people don't actually think I'm going to void it if the pole says so.
So, then you're admitting that it's alright to disregard a majority of players (who bothered to vote) as long as a 'certain few' allow it?
And as for why I voted yes it should be banned; The Zombies are just overpowered. It doesn't matter WHO uses it, having a zombie with the ability to regenerate endlessly and have infinite chakra is absurd. If we changed how the zombies themselves worked it would even out, but having the ability to summon even one zombie in a 1v1 fight that has endless chakra is, in my opinion, far too strong.
Maybe keep their immortality, but get rid of their endless chakra. Because in that situation, as long as the user has a single Zombie up in a 1v1 fight he can outlast his opponent no matter what.
What the bias? Suddenly, nonsense from left field! Anyway, glad to see people who matter are reasonable. See what happens when we actually talk? Anyone before now arguing to me on SL about SL has just gone "Zombies OP, Infinite Chakra OP, Ooga Booga." Great argument there. Yet here come people with their logic and reasonable requests and I've agreed to every proposed rule at this point. Let's see if I remember everything.
#1 Six is the absolute maximum out at any given time, more may be owned but one must switch out zombies once the cap is reached.
#2 If a zombie is defeated, aka, the bound soul is separated from the body, that zombie is fallen, and that soul can never be bound again by Edo Tensei.
#3 One may not revive their alts (anymore >_>)
#4 A living sacrifice of another PC (player character) must be used to perform the Edo Tensei ritual.
#5 There is a 1:1 ratio requirement for zombies being summoned in relation to opponents present, ie, if I attack Konoha and three defenders come out I can summon, at most, three zombies. Though this begs the question of what happens if someone drops out, am I forced to unsummon one?
#6 It was either no not ever in bijuu fights or never more than one zombie, I'd argue for the only one, it's one of my jutsu, I should be able to use it in an official fight.
#7 The teacher/student rule is in place for Edo Tensei. The user may teach one person Edo Tensei, and may not teach anyone else so long as the first student is alive. The student him/herself may not teach anyone Edo Tensei so long as their teacher is alive.
Now Bocchi's ideas for rules
#8 There are three levels of control possible for zombies, Oro style, the personality of the summoned is entirely suppressed, making them mindless fighting machines that automatically react to being attacked. Kabuto style, the personality of the opponent is semi-bound, this forces them to use the tactics they had in life and allows them to be an more effective fighter, the downside is that the looser control allows the soul to be released if the summoned gains emotional closure. In addition their voice cannot be controlled unless tighter control is activated, allowing them to speak as they please. Free Style, the personality of the zombie is not bound at all, allowing them to do as they please unless the summoner forces direct control upon them (this is what I do for my revived allies and it would allow to people to easily rp as Edo Tensei zombies)
#9 Zombies can be altered after being summoned, in ways such as implanted eyes or DNA. If an assimilated part is outside the body, such as Earth Grudge Fear's thread creatures, then they will not regenerate damage. If they are inside, such as DNA or eyes then they will. (I base this on the fact that Kabuto enhanced Madara with more of Hashirama's DNA, and Madara was obliterated several times, never resulting in a mass of pulpy flesh falling on the ground, or more realistically, Madara missing pieces upon regenerating)
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1. The poll, as of now, is useless because I already agreed that I'd ignore if a better rule system was created.
So what was the point of creating the poll in the first place then, when asking of everyone's opinions would have served you nigh the same purpose?
And seeing as how it is a loss cause to throw the jutsu out at this point by the way things are going, I'm going to have to +1 the "no limitless chakra" suggestion.
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#5 There is a 1:1 ratio requirement for zombies being summoned in relation to opponents present, ie, if I attack Konoha and three defenders come out I can summon, at most, three zombies. Though this begs the question of what happens if someone drops out, am I forced to unsummon one?
That, or simply relocate the zombie elsewhere, preferably away from the conflict where other characters participating can't interact with it.
#6 It was either no not ever in bijuu fights or never more than one zombie, I'd argue for the only one, it's one of my jutsu, I should be able to use it in an official fight.
Unless you're the one being challenged, or the challenged-jinchuuriki allows it, then no. It's all a matter of negotiation-flow; challengers can be asked to drop jutsu and in some cases even the challenged for the duration of the battle.
Now Bocchi's ideas for rules
#8 There are three levels of control possible for zombies, Oro style, the personality of the summoned is entirely suppressed, making them mindless fighting machines that automatically react to being attacked. Kabuto style, the personality of the opponent is semi-bound, this forces them to use the tactics they had in life and allows them to be an more effective fighter, the downside is that the looser control allows the soul to be released if the summoned gains emotional closure. In addition their voice cannot be controlled unless tighter control is activated, allowing them to speak as they please. Free Style, the personality of the zombie is not bound at all, allowing them to do as they please unless the summoner forces direct control upon them (this is what I do for my revived allies and it would allow to people to easily rp as Edo Tensei zombies)
Sounds fine.
#9 Zombies can be altered after being summoned, in ways such as implanted eyes or DNA. If an assimilated part is outside the body, such as Earth Grudge Fear's thread creatures, then they will not regenerate damage. If they are inside, such as DNA or eyes then they will. (I base this on the fact that Kabuto enhanced Madara with more of Hashirama's DNA, and Madara was obliterated several times, never resulting in a mass of pulpy flesh falling on the ground, or more realistically, Madara missing pieces upon regenerating)
They should only be implanted DNA (I'm not referring to eyes) that they naturally have, so no implanting Hashirama's cells into a zombie that doesn't originally possess them in order to grant it Mokuton, or Kaguya DNA into one to grant it Shikotsumyaku. Hence really, you'd only be enhancing the DNA the zombies (or rather, the characters used themselves) already possessed when they were reanimated.
Edit: These are just my opinions, nothing official.
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@Eric There is no reason to remove the bottomless chakra, unless you want to irritate me. It one of Edo's primary features and with things like the Preta Path being as abundant as it is chakra is kind of a non-issue. I am open to the idea of making rules for Edo Tensei, not neutering it.
@Yumei, I agree, they cannot gain KG through DNA, like Mokuton, didn't mean to infer that if you thought I did.
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1. The poll, as of now, is useless because I already agreed that I'd ignore if a better rule system was created.
So what was the point of creating the poll in the first place then, when asking of everyone's opinions would have served you nigh the same purpose?
And seeing as how it is a loss cause to throw the jutsu out at this point by the way things are going, I'm going to have to +1 the "no limitless chakra" suggestion.
My original intention was to void it depending on the poll but, out of the people who actually posted that they voted, they all wanted a rule change rather than a void. Majority rules in this case.
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Like I said if we place limitations on how the zombies are used, number wise, then they loss their OPness honestly. I mean you all keep saying they have endless chakra 'WELL' how often in major fights on SL does one run out of chakra cause I haven't seen it lately, two the keep coming back... that one is the best as it makes it more of a challenge.
The only true issue on the zombies was spamming a turn but with the number of zombies limited to use then no spamming... it is only truly OP when you use them to make it a 6 vs 1 fight.
With rules at play the jutsu is very well legit, period. Plus OPness isn't what wins fights it is rp skills... Bocc could have ten zombies if you can rp your ass off it still does him no good (note: not saying you can't rp Bocc just making a point)
Honestly, people need to stop trying to rely on making other people's character weaker and start relying on rp skills once again. I mean do you all want everyone to be equal? Communist >.>
And if this jutsu is void then there are many other canon jutsu that need to get voided, and SL should start to use a tribute system so no unfairness is done... I have created countless systems for forums as well as countless banned jutsu list......... So why don't we just turn SL into a forum sense that failed once before?
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I think we can agree that voiding it is off the table, so I want to open the discussion to rules people think need to be added, or changes to the ones we have so far.
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I still say the limit to zombies should be 2-4, just me though.
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Update:
- Only deceased players can be used. Their DNA must also have been procured by the user of Edo Tensei.
- There can only be a maximum of six zombies active, all others can only be summoned when another 'position' has become available.
- Those whose soul has been sealed away in an item or devoured cannot be reanimated.
- Those who have previously been used as (Edo-)zombies cannot be used/reanimated again (just to prevent re-usage of alts and the sort).
- Can only be used in open-RP, generally restricting them from usage in official 1 v 1 duels (i.e. Bijuu battles (can be negotiated); too much of a disadvantage).
- In the case where the Edo Tensei user is attacking a village, they must limit their usable zombie count (from a maximum of 6) according to the number of defenders.
- Bijuu cannot be sealed inside of the zombies, even if they were previously jinchuuriki (it'd lead to too much drama in bijuu battles and the sort).
- There are three levels of control possible for zombies, Oro style, the personality of the summoned is entirely suppressed, making them mindless fighting machines that automatically react to being attacked. Kabuto style, the personality of the opponent is semi-bound, this forces them to use the tactics they had in life and allows them to be an more effective fighter, the downside is that the looser control allows the soul to be released if the summoned gains emotional closure. In addition their voice cannot be controlled unless tighter control is activated, allowing them to speak as they please. Free Style, the personality of the zombie is not bound at all, allowing them to do as they please unless the summoner forces direct control upon them (this is what I do for my revived allies and it would allow to people to easily rp as Edo Tensei zombies).
- Zombies can be altered after being summoned, in ways such as implanted eyes or DNA (restricted to DNA they already possess, simply to enhance their passive abilities/effects). If an assimilated part is outside the body, such as Earth Grudge Fear's thread creatures, then they will not regenerate damage. If they are inside, such as DNA or eyes then they will.
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There we are. Bring on more ideas.
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I don't totally agree that one should be able to enhance the zombies in anyway. They should be limited to the skills they had when they where alive. It opens up to much opportunity for spamming such things like an implanted Sharingan that causes a major chakra drain. Plus it should be the goal of the Edo user to obtain powerful shinobi for their collection where on the other hand they could kill some random person bring them back slap a set of MS eyes in the thing and spam the dojutsu. I know that it was shown in the manga that you can implant eyes into the zombies, but I think it shouldn't be allowed rp wise.
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I don't totally agree that one should be able to enhance the zombies in anyway. They should be limited to the skills they had when they where alive. It opens up to much opportunity for spamming such things like an implanted Sharingan that causes a major chakra drain. Plus it should be the goal of the Edo user to obtain powerful shinobi for their collection where on the other hand they could kill some random person bring them back slap a set of MS eyes in the thing and spam the dojutsu. I know that it was shown in the manga that you can implant eyes into the zombies, but I think it shouldn't be allowed rp wise.
That means you couldn't make them Paths of Pain though. Only someone who had Honored Member resets can use mangekyo anyway. So if I want to give them 3 tomoe eyes I should be able to. Again, if I have dozens of spare eyes i should be able to put them to use.
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So if I want to give them 3 tomoe eyes I should be able to. Again, if I have dozens of spare eyes i should be able to put them to use.
I agree. Only between Dōjutsu they reset into. Sharingan/Rinnegan or Byakugan/Rinnegan.
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I disagree, the zombies should remain as they were in life, no implant. I don't recall any zombie getting implanted eyes. Yes, there were the jinchurikki, but those weren't implants, but were a result of the chakra rods implanted within them, which mimicks their user (In that case Obito) Nagato certainly didn't have 12 extra Rinnegans hanging around, and Obito didn't have all those extra eyes.
So, unless I'm missing another case of eye implants, then I say no to those. Plus, how would one even do an implant? As soon as you would try and remove and Edo' eyes or any other body part, it would just regenerate to their original form. I think the zombies should stay as is, no implants.
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No implants. If you want a zombie with Rinnegan then go kill a legit Rinengan user and then revive them.
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Imma do it anyway >> And Trev, all of the Jinchuriki Paths of Pain had implanted Sharingan eyes.
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Imma do it anyway >> And Trev, all of the Jinchuriki Paths of Pain had implanted Sharingan eyes.
Really? Could have sworn it was because of the chakra rods, but I guess that's why they didn't spam kamui.
Also, question! Say an Edo Tensei gets it's arm cut off, the cut off limb just disperses right and doesn't linger, right? I say this, so no one is tempted to take a million sharingan eyes from a zombie or something xD
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Imma do it anyway >> And Trev, all of the Jinchuriki Paths of Pain had implanted Sharingan eyes.
Really? Could have sworn it was because of the chakra rods, but I guess that's why they didn't spam kamui.
Also, question! Say an Edo Tensei gets it's arm cut off, the cut off limb just disperses right and doesn't linger, right? I say this, so no one is tempted to take a million sharingan eyes from a zombie or something xD
Well, assuming the chakra rods are what give you the Rinnegan in Paths, I think it would be kind of a stretch to say the give you Sharingan, if you had wood style would your paths have it too?
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No it wouldn't, so good point. It must only grant a specific path to the Rinnegan though.
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Imma do it anyway >> And Trev, all of the Jinchuriki Paths of Pain had implanted Sharingan eyes.
Really? Could have sworn it was because of the chakra rods, but I guess that's why they didn't spam kamui.
Also, question! Say an Edo Tensei gets it's arm cut off, the cut off limb just disperses right and doesn't linger, right? I say this, so no one is tempted to take a million sharingan eyes from a zombie or something xD
Well, assuming the chakra rods are what give you the Rinnegan in Paths, I think it would be kind of a stretch to say the give you Sharingan, if you had wood style would your paths have it too?
It's transplant or so the bolded text says so.
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/175/8/3/madara__s_six_paths_of_pain_by_beauryan101-d3jutnq.jpg)
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They are implants because if you look closely you can see that their sharingan eyes are different, besides what the text says.
Still though I don't believe you should be able to alter a zombie in anyway. Keep them the way they were when alive and in their prime. If you want someone with sharingan then go kill someone with it. Also, it was accepted that no alts should be used correct?
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They are implants because if you look closely you can see that their sharingan eyes are different, besides what the text says.
Four of them appear to have Izuna's MS... somehow.
Also, it was accepted that no alts should be used correct?
Yes. From now on anyway.
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I've yet to see an actual argument against the implants, which we have seen are canon approved, that has not been, "Nuuuuu implants." Does anyone have a reason for why this should not be allowed? Though, real quick, imma let you guys in on a secret. If I have spare Rinnegan or Sharingan eyes, I probably killed someone to get them anyway, which makes you guys going "No, go kill someone if you want that!" kinda silly. :oops:
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I've yet to see an actual argument against the implants, which we have seen are canon approved, that has not been, "Nuuuuu implants." Does anyone have a reason for why this should not be allowed? Though, real quick, imma let you guys in on a secret. If I have spare Rinnegan or Sharingan eyes, I probably killed someone to get them anyway, which makes you guys going "No, go kill someone if you want that!" kinda silly. :oops:
I kinda doubt you have a cache of legit Rinnegans and Sharingans.
Also I am leaning on towards no implants whatsoever including DNA alterations done to Edo Zombies.
Another thing, in that particular scene it seems that the Six Path of Pain technique was used on the former Jinchuuriki which gave them the Rinnegan but the Sharingan are the only thing that are transplanted.
I recall Kakashi saying that Obito wasn't using the new Six Paths to their full potential since the Rinnegan's powers were very chakra taxing on the user and it took quite a bit of chakra to even maintain the Edo Six Paths.
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I've yet to see an actual argument against the implants, which we have seen are canon approved, that has not been, "Nuuuuu implants." Does anyone have a reason for why this should not be allowed? Though, real quick, imma let you guys in on a secret. If I have spare Rinnegan or Sharingan eyes, I probably killed someone to get them anyway, which makes you guys going "No, go kill someone if you want that!" kinda silly. :oops:
I kinda doubt you have a cache of legit Rinnegans and Sharingans.
Also I am leaning on towards no implants whatsoever including DNA alterations done to Edo Zombies.
Another thing, in that particular scene it seems that the Six Path of Pain technique was used on the former Jinchuuriki which gave them the Rinnegan but the Sharingan are the only thing that are transplanted.
I recall Kakashi saying that Obito wasn't using the new Six Paths to their full potential since the Rinnegan's powers were very chakra taxing on the user and it took quite a bit of chakra to even maintain the Edo Six Paths.
It took a lot of chakra to control the 6 Paths because he was controlling 6 bijuu that were inside them. And again you call me out on a hypothetical situation I posed, I never said I had 100 Rinnegan and Sharingan. I have 0 Rinnegan and about 20 Sharingan right now. Again, just saying no implants is not a very convincing argument.
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If the majority do not want implants then no argument is really needed. We're placing rules on Edo Tensei regardless of what has been shown in the Manga so a reason isn't needed.
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The majority wanting something does not make the majority right. Lots of people want to void me and that hasn't happened either. You can be sure that I'm going to ignore such a rule if it is placed. We have been doing fine using logic and discussion to make the rules up till this point, now people are going "No implants cuz no implants." That's just stupid.
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I have 0 Rinnegan and about 20 Sharingan right now. Again, just saying no implants is not a very convincing argument.
Which is why I doubted you even obtained those legally, because twenty Sharingans is about ten Uchiha accounts you had to either kill or bribe to get them and if this is true then I would like to see their character names.
The majority wanting something does not make the majority right. Lots of people want to void me and that hasn't happened either. You can be sure that I'm going to ignore such a rule if it is placed. We have been doing fine using logic and discussion to make the rules up till this point, now people are going "No implants cuz no implants." That's just stupid.
Have you listened to yourself? First, you're fine with the new rules being implemented at this very moment but when it doesn't go your way with the whole implanting onto Zombies idea.
Besides if we can't alter the bijuus in any form then the same should apply to Edo Tensei's summons.
I think another idea I have floating around is if the Edo Tensei user(s) refuses go by any of the guidelines implemented then it is acceptable to void their actions irregardless.
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If I have any question about what is legal in rp Kamui you can be certain you'll be the last person I ask. And gee wiz, how ridiculous of me to object to one of the rules I don't like. I don't like the 1:1 ratio rule, but that one makes sense and is fair, so I accepted it, this rule is arbitrary and has no logic behind it. Here is the first actual argument someone has posed for it though. Obviously, since you cannot alter the bijuu, you cannot alter Edo Tensei zombies, what fine logic, as bijuu and Edo Tensei are essentially one in the same, right?
So we have progressed from no arguments to arguments with anti-logic. You realize that none of these rules are set yet, right? Are you under the impression that anyone who shouts anything on this topic gets it automatically made into a rule? But yeah you're totally right, I should sit on my hands like a good boy and let everyone else decide what is fair for me to do.
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If I have any question about what is legal in rp Kamui you can be certain you'll be the last person I ask.
I can assure you, the same will apply to you since you're the "expert". :oops:
Obviously, since you cannot alter the bijuu, you cannot alter Edo Tensei zombies, what fine logic, as bijuu and Edo Tensei are essentially one in the same, right?
I like how you don't see the power difference or lack of between the two, which is why I said no alterations/implants and I am sure some will agree with me.
Picture this, I can revive a previous Kage who just happened to be a previous Jinchuuriki and just coincidentally at the time of his death, I just happened to make alterations to nerf up the summon.
And gee wiz, how ridiculous of me to object to one of the rules I don't like. I don't like the 1:1 ratio rule, but that one makes sense and is fair, so I accepted it, this rule is arbitrary and has no logic behind it.
I have no problem with anyone objecting to any suggestions or rules but when it's to benefit them then we're on an entire different subject of what is logical.
So we have progressed from no arguments to arguments with anti-logic.
The only thing that is anti-logical is how you will magically have Senju genes.
You realize that none of these rules are set yet, right?
I never said any of these rules were set, these suggestions could be implemented into new rules if the community comes to some sort of agreement that doesn't benefit either side and is neutral on both sides.
Are you under the impression that anyone who shouts anything on this topic gets it automatically made into a rule?
I'm under the impression that maybe just maybe that we will make some head-way and this won't end up being another locked top
But yeah you're totally right, I should sit on my hands like a good boy and let everyone else decide what is fair for me to do.
Here's a thought maybe *we* could work together with everyone so that no one ends up pulling the old "void" card?
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The only implants I am talking about happening are eyeballs. What if someone willing wants to become an Edo Tensei? If I implant eyes in them before they die it doesn't work? It doesn't make sense. And yes, obviously it is beneficial to me to have that, you make it sound like I am disregarding some actual argument just because it is better for me to not have that rule in place, but no one has said anything but just, "No.". Though Edo Tensei zombie is not as strong as a bijuu. One person with one zombie is not going to beat one person with one bijuu if they are of equal skill.
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The majority wanting something does not make the majority right. Lots of people want to void me and that hasn't happened either. You can be sure that I'm going to ignore such a rule if it is placed. We have been doing fine using logic and discussion to make the rules up till this point, now people are going "No implants cuz no implants." That's just stupid.
What I take away from such a statement, what I 'hear' is this:
that unless you get it written out exactly how you wish to have it then you will ignore any rules, the new ones, the old ones, or whatever else you feel like doing. Rp rule, site rules...you feel above having to tone yourself down according to anyone's standards but your own.
However, you are not alone here but among a community.
Keep it up and one day you will find yourself with no one to play with.
Alot of good you attitude will have gotten you then.
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I don't totally agree that one should be able to enhance the zombies in anyway. They should be limited to the skills they had when they where alive. It opens up to much opportunity for spamming such things like an implanted Sharingan that causes a major chakra drain. Plus it should be the goal of the Edo user to obtain powerful shinobi for their collection where on the other hand they could kill some random person bring them back slap a set of MS eyes in the thing and spam the dojutsu. I know that it was shown in the manga that you can implant eyes into the zombies, but I think it shouldn't be allowed rp wise.
Okay so that wasn't an actually reason? No where in there did I say there shouldn't be implants because I don't like zombies with implants. It is very simply why their shouldn't be, which is the reason that the Sharingan for example can be spammed as the unlimited chakra cancels out the chakra drain I mean the simply sharingan itself tires one down fast unless they have had it for years and trained, the MS has a way bigger impact on the implanty, and God forbid you implant a EMS into one cause I'm sure the chakra drain for that would be rather massive (which i why all those who have EMS implants without resets are off their rockers in my opinion). Plus the Rinnegan could be spammed as one could use the almighty push to tremendous scales sense I believe the amount of chakra you put in is the size of the jutsu and a zombie has unlimited chakra so you could have an Almight Push that levels everything, literally. One other thing the only zombie tha was seen using Sharingan techniques was Madara because he had them when alive.... so could it be that the zombies can't use them thus making them only for sight purposes which the manga pointed out on quite a bit (shared field of vision and Sharingan perspective)
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The majority wanting something does not make the majority right.
So no canon item challenges? >__>
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The majority wanting something does not make the majority right. Lots of people want to void me and that hasn't happened either. You can be sure that I'm going to ignore such a rule if it is placed. We have been doing fine using logic and discussion to make the rules up till this point, now people are going "No implants cuz no implants." That's just stupid.
They're saying that because we are limiting the zombies because the alternative is the jutsu being void. If you don't want to comply then you can be ignored or the jutsu can just be voided like I originally intended.
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I'm not having this voided. I'd rather have this minor nerf than a void. Plus not everything that is decided has to make sense within the naruto verse (Hence why the biju's chakra can't be split in SL, when clearly in Naruto it can) Bocc do you really feel like having a war over implants for a zombie? Just take this small nerf and lets move on.
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I mean really the only three rules that actually down grade the jutsu is, not over 6, 1:1 ratio (note if the opponent permits there to be a bigger ratio then that should be accepted), and no alterations of the zombie.
I am most certain you can find people to slay to have zombies with MS, a lot of people have the resets and it isn't like they want be able to spam their MS powers... same goes for rinnegan.
edit: I also think there should be a record book somewhere stating who you did kill to obtain the zombie, along with what skills they possess, the date they where killed, who was used as the sacrifice, ect. I just think this would keep a lot of arguments from arising as everything would be there to show proof that the zombie is legit. (not trying to say yalls aren't but instead trying to state an idea I feel may bring aid to who ever uses the jutsu)
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The majority wanting something does not make the majority right. Lots of people want to void me and that hasn't happened either. You can be sure that I'm going to ignore such a rule if it is placed. We have been doing fine using logic and discussion to make the rules up till this point, now people are going "No implants cuz no implants." That's just stupid.
What I take away from such a statement, what I 'hear' is this:
that unless you get it written out exactly how you wish to have it then you will ignore any rules, the new ones, the old ones, or whatever else you feel like doing. Rp rule, site rules...you feel above having to tone yourself down according to anyone's standards but your own.
However, you are not alone here but among a community.
Keep it up and one day you will find yourself with no one to play with.
Alot of good you attitude will have gotten you then.
Did you read any of this topic? I have agreed to pretty much every rule but this one, as usual you're doing nothing but harping. Alright though, I'll take no implants if it's gonna be that big of a deal. o: Yeah, from now on there should be a list of all the prominent info like Kirk mentioned. I'm going to say no implanting the zombies once they are created though, some of my zombies already have implants, Saejima had an implanted eye before he died as well as Jiongu.
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I don't totally agree that one should be able to enhance the zombies in anyway. They should be limited to the skills they had when they where alive. It opens up to much opportunity for spamming such things like an implanted Sharingan that causes a major chakra drain. Plus it should be the goal of the Edo user to obtain powerful shinobi for their collection where on the other hand they could kill some random person bring them back slap a set of MS eyes in the thing and spam the dojutsu. I know that it was shown in the manga that you can implant eyes into the zombies, but I think it shouldn't be allowed rp wise.
Okay so that wasn't an actually reason? No where in there did I say there shouldn't be implants because I don't like zombies with implants. It is very simply why their shouldn't be, which is the reason that the Sharingan for example can be spammed as the unlimited chakra cancels out the chakra drain I mean the simply sharingan itself tires one down fast unless they have had it for years and trained, the MS has a way bigger impact on the implanty, and God forbid you implant a EMS into one cause I'm sure the chakra drain for that would be rather massive (which i why all those who have EMS implants without resets are off their rockers in my opinion). Plus the Rinnegan could be spammed as one could use the almighty push to tremendous scales sense I believe the amount of chakra you put in is the size of the jutsu and a zombie has unlimited chakra so you could have an Almight Push that levels everything, literally. One other thing the only zombie tha was seen using Sharingan techniques was Madara because he had them when alive.... so could it be that the zombies can't use them thus making them only for sight purposes which the manga pointed out on quite a bit (shared field of vision and Sharingan perspective)
Just for the sake of responding, like I said, to spam MS they would need to have the resets anyway, and is anyone really going to be shut down because I put a 3 tomoe eye in my zombies? A Rinnegan user can also pretty much spam regardless since they can always Preta Path more chakra in, which is why I didn't see implanting either eye + the infinite chakra being a deal breaker, but oh well.
edit
Yes, you're right, the jinchuriki only got the basic Sharingan sight abilities, because Obito just put eyes in people who had never had Sharingan before. If I put a Grand Master eye in a zombie who had no Sharingan resets he would only have the basic three tomoe.
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I like how you don't see the power difference or lack of between the two, which is why I said no alterations/implants and I am sure some will agree with me.
Picture this, I can revive a previous Kage who just happened to be a previous Jinchuuriki and just coincidentally at the time of his death, I just happened to make alterations to nerf up the summon.
"ºTampering with the Bijūº
Tampering with the Bijū, meaning: destroying it, editing its affinity, parting its powers into multiple entities, etc. & anything that changes it from its known canon form is prohibited. Reason being the unpredictable results of its edit & inability to properly decide what lies correct or not."
The reason I made it so that you can't change the bijuu from what it can do right now is because it's not canon. We don't know what would happen since there is no basis on what would(!) happen.
Also, considering a kage/jinch. dies and is made into a edo-zombie goes against the rule (parting its powers into multiple entities), they wouldn't be in possession of said bijuu, or the bijuu powers. Though influences, I.E. Gaara, I'm sure we can establish are negotiable.
P.S., A.J., "Nerf" means to tone down something.
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I like how you don't see the power difference or lack of between the two, which is why I said no alterations/implants and I am sure some will agree with me.
Picture this, I can revive a previous Kage who just happened to be a previous Jinchuuriki and just coincidentally at the time of his death, I just happened to make alterations to nerf up the summon.
"ºTampering with the Bijūº
Tampering with the Bijū, meaning: destroying it, editing its affinity, parting its powers into multiple entities, etc. & anything that changes it from its known canon form is prohibited. Reason being the unpredictable results of its edit & inability to properly decide what lies correct or not."
The reason I made it so that you can't change the bijuu from what it can do right now is because it's not canon. We don't know what would happen since there is no basis on what would(!) happen.
Also, considering a kage/jinch. dies and is made into a edo-zombie goes against the rule (parting its powers into multiple entities), they wouldn't be in possession of said bijuu, or the bijuu powers. Though influences, I.E. Gaara, I'm sure we can establish are negotiable.
P.S., A.J., "Nerf" means to tone down something.
We know that Rai o: Hence why I said it doesn't make any sense, since we do know what would happen if you tried to alter an Edo Tensei zombie. But people don't care, even though this entire time, up until this point, I have had implanted eyes in my zombies and never once has anyone said anything about it.
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Well, I'm just defending the case that this is a canon-seen thing.
How about we treat them like pokemon?
To learn (gain) something, you need to trade (remove) something for it.
So, if he wants eyes, he needs to get rid of all but a good sum of jutsu that remained for the user -- considering Rinnegan/Sharingan eyes can already copy the jutsu and such.
Edit: I mean, if Bocc is up for it, to please the public, he could even select, like, ten of their jutsu (considering people of this realm are known for a handful of their jutsu rather than all of them), and use those only.
Edit #2: We also see people trading off certain IG reborns for RP reborns. I.E. Claiming their rinnegan for sage, or changing their sage for a different sort of sage.
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Well, I'm just defending the case that this is a canon-seen thing.
How about we treat them like pokemon?
To learn (gain) something, you need to trade (remove) something for it.
So, if he wants eyes, he needs to get rid of all but a good sum of jutsu that remained for the user -- considering Rinnegan/Sharingan eyes can already copy the jutsu and such.
Edit: I mean, if Bocc is up for it, to please the public, he could even select, like, ten of their jutsu (considering people of this realm are known for a handful of their jutsu rather than all of them), and use those only.
Edit #2: We also see people trading off certain IG reborns for RP reborns. I.E. Claiming their rinnegan for sage, or changing their sage for a different sort of sage.
That could work... I suppose. I could just show it on their wiki pages. I don't know though.
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I like how you don't see the power difference or lack of between the two, which is why I said no alterations/implants and I am sure some will agree with me.
Picture this, I can revive a previous Kage who just happened to be a previous Jinchuuriki and just coincidentally at the time of his death, I just happened to make alterations to nerf up the summon.
"ºTampering with the Bijūº
Tampering with the Bijū, meaning: destroying it, editing its affinity, parting its powers into multiple entities, etc. & anything that changes it from its known canon form is prohibited. Reason being the unpredictable results of its edit & inability to properly decide what lies correct or not."
The reason I made it so that you can't change the bijuu from what it can do right now is because it's not canon. We don't know what would happen since there is no basis on what would(!) happen.
Also, considering a kage/jinch. dies and is made into a edo-zombie goes against the rule (parting its powers into multiple entities), they wouldn't be in possession of said bijuu, or the bijuu powers. Though influences, I.E. Gaara, I'm sure we can establish are negotiable.
P.S., A.J., "Nerf" means to tone down something.
In context to the definition to "Nerf" it also means to worsen...I don't know why I said that perhaps it is because I have been sick of the flu these past days. :oops:
Well, I'm just defending the case that this is a canon-seen thing.
How about we treat them like pokemon?
To learn (gain) something, you need to trade (remove) something for it.
So, if he wants eyes, he needs to get rid of all but a good sum of jutsu that remained for the user -- considering Rinnegan/Sharingan eyes can already copy the jutsu and such.
Edit: I mean, if Bocc is up for it, to please the public, he could even select, like, ten of their jutsu (considering people of this realm are known for a handful of their jutsu rather than all of them), and use those only.
Edit #2: We also see people trading off certain IG reborns for RP reborns. I.E. Claiming their rinnegan for sage, or changing their sage for a different sort of sage.
I have this idea for a bit of equality regarding these implants if anyone is willing to listen.
How about instead of removing knowledge of jutsus in return for a Sharingan implant, you just previously remove one of the Summon's previous kekkei genkai?
As for the Rinnegan well that is up to you since rarely anybody uses Kekkei Tota these days...
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So if they don't have a KT I can't implant a Rinnegan? I guess minus one kg for another could work. >>;
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I'm fine with getting rid of stuff in place of adding an eye. However, it'd stay at three tomoe like you said and, if a Rinnegan eye was implanted, it'd have to be from a legit user.
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So what happens on the off chance they don't have a KG? All of Saejima's are implants, actually.
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So what happens on the off chance they don't have a KG? All of Saejima's are implants, actually.
Only kill people with KG, then, I guess.
I'm fine with getting rid of stuff in place of adding an eye. However, it'd stay at three tomoe like you said and, if a Rinnegan eye was implanted, it'd have to be from a legit user.
3-Tomoe is fine. More than fine, in my opinion. Considering the endless amounts of custom MS techniques you can have.
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So what happens on the off chance they don't have a KG? All of Saejima's are implants, actually.
Only kill people with KG, then, I guess.
I'm fine with getting rid of stuff in place of adding an eye. However, it'd stay at three tomoe like you said and, if a Rinnegan eye was implanted, it'd have to be from a legit user.
3-Tomoe is fine. More than fine, in my opinion. Considering the endless amounts of custom MS techniques you can have.
Those require a MS, though.
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No herp, derplock.
I'm saying why 3-T > MS.
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I'm confused. You said you could make an endless amount of custom MS techniques but are now saying 3-T is better? Or are you saying it's a better nerf because there is no MS to spam?
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The nerf of having 3T only is better because with MS you can have so many MS techniques.
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That's what I thought you meant. Alright then. Also, someone mind writing up the rules so far? I think this is all that should be added or changed.
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That's what I thought you meant. Alright then. Also, someone mind writing up the rules so far? I think this is all that should be added or changed.
agreed
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I agree that limiting it to no more than a 3 tomoe sharingan or it's equivalent (byakugan) is completely fine. The series did it so that makes it canon assuming of course the Edo user can provide a specific list of who's eyes they took in legal RP i say go nuts
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I agree that limiting it to no more than a 3 tomoe sharingan or it's equivalent (byakugan) is completely fine. The series did it so that makes it canon assuming of course the Edo user can provide a specific list of who's eyes they took in legal RP i say go nuts
Couldn't have said it better.
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What I find phenomenal is that the jutsu is not enough power for you guys as is. No, it has to be bigger and more expansive and ridiculous as you can possibly make it. It's not enough that your zombie warrior has *cough* infinite chakra and can be summons over and over and never destroyed, but it has to have implants and third arms and the ability to fly as well!
I don' t think there is anyone in this discussion responsible enough to use it so...
let it be voided from the site.
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
What if someone pulls an Orochimaru/Voldemort revival? As in, leaving a part of their consciousness, chakra and body behind somewhere for someone else to merge those three elements together and revive them? How would Edo Tensei deal with this?
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
What if someone pulls an Orochimaru/Voldemort revival? As in, leaving a part of their consciousness, chakra and body behind somewhere for someone else to merge those three elements together and revive them? How would Edo Tensei deal with this?
We say "no."
Just because then it can't be regulated; I mean, we thought Orochimaru died, like, 4 times now?
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
Well, the seal does matter but the new rule is that, say the zombie is released due to emotions or something, even though it's soul isn't sealed somewhere like the Totsuka Blade or Reaper Death Seal you still won't be able to bring it back to life.
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
Well, the seal does matter but the new rule is that, say the zombie is released due to emotions or something, even though it's soul isn't sealed somewhere like the Totsuka Blade or Reaper Death Seal you still won't be able to bring it back to life.
I'm referring to sealing them while they're still under the influence of Edo. If one gets sealed a certain way then that means the Edo user just lost a zombie
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We decided that to make it fair, if for any reason the soul is kicked out of the body, that Edo is "dead" and cannot be rebound. Though no, we did not void the infinite chakra. >_> No one but Kayenta and equally... opinionated, people from Suna have ever seriously complained about that part. Also, Kay, we aren't buffing the jutsu, we are discussing the new parts shown in Shippuden, why do you keep commenting on things you just don't know about? Also, no implanting Rinnegan in zombies then?
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
What if someone pulls an Orochimaru/Voldemort revival? As in, leaving a part of their consciousness, chakra and body behind somewhere for someone else to merge those three elements together and revive them? How would Edo Tensei deal with this?
We say "no."
Just because then it can't be regulated; I mean, we thought Orochimaru died, like, 4 times now?
If your soul can be revived via the Edo Tensei kinjutsu then this alone should render Fushi Tensei kinjutsu useless.
As for implanting Rinnegan? Well..if you can obtain it without having to "buy" it then by all means...
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
What if someone pulls an Orochimaru/Voldemort revival? As in, leaving a part of their consciousness, chakra and body behind somewhere for someone else to merge those three elements together and revive them? How would Edo Tensei deal with this?
We say "no."
Just because then it can't be regulated; I mean, we thought Orochimaru died, like, 4 times now?
If your soul can be revived via the Edo Tensei kinjutsu then this alone should render Fushi Tensei kinjutsu useless.
As for implanting Rinnegan? Well..if you can obtain it without having to "buy" it then by all means...
Deal :D
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I believe we took infinite chakra away. The same for summoning them. After they're released once then they're done even if they're souls aren't trapped in something like the Totsuka Blade.
Actually sealing them away i think should depend on the sealing jutsu used. For example, if someone uses reaper death seal i don't care that soul ain't coming back
Well, the seal does matter but the new rule is that, say the zombie is released due to emotions or something, even though it's soul isn't sealed somewhere like the Totsuka Blade or Reaper Death Seal you still won't be able to bring it back to life.
I'm referring to sealing them while they're still under the influence of Edo. If one gets sealed a certain way then that means the Edo user just lost a zombie
Oh, yeah, that is still legit.
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I don' t think there is anyone in this discussion responsible enough to use it so...
We won't know that without a simple trial and error, now won't we?
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I find this Lolzy after all I have my own technique that I use on myself all the time.
[spoiler]Name: Sekai no Ketsugō Fujun [Impure World Binding]
Rank: S
Needs: a Scroll, Death of the user, a Second and Third party
Description: Placed upon the user before death it ties their mind, soul, bloodline limiter, and being to an scroll in a blood pact. Upon death the memories of the user, chakra, and eyes disappear from the body that they once had and are sealed away into the scroll of choice causing the scroll to glow lightly signaling the completion of the first part of the sealing technique holding the user outside of the grim reapers grasp. In the second part of this Forbidden fuinjutsu a second person, usually younger then the user now trapped in the scroll, and a third person will be needed. With the second person laying down and chest exposed the scroll would be placed upright over the heart the third person holding the scroll still with his palms pressing the scroll gently against the chest of the second party focusing chakra from their palms into the scroll causing the glow of the scroll to diminish as the being of the user starts to tie and bond to the second person taking over the position of the second persons. Their memories and lives now entwined there chakras combine as well increasing the chakra reserves of the new user of this jutsu. The body retains all of its training it had received along with the skills of the first user. Inside a new body the user would feel discomfort at first as they get use to the jutsu’s effect and unsure if they or the second person used for this jutsu did what their memories said. The cycle continues until the scroll for this jutsu is destroyed and then the user is killed before they could be bonded to a new scroll.[/spoiler]
You can even ask Kayenta, I have been using the technique for years......
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Oh well if Kayenta says so who are we to argue? >>
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I find this Lolzy after all I have my own technique that I use on myself all the time.
[spoiler]Name: Sekai no Ketsugō Fujun [Impure World Binding]
Rank: S
Needs: a Scroll, Death of the user, a Second and Third party
Description: Placed upon the user before death it ties their mind, soul, bloodline limiter, and being to an scroll in a blood pact. Upon death the memories of the user, chakra, and eyes disappear from the body that they once had and are sealed away into the scroll of choice causing the scroll to glow lightly signaling the completion of the first part of the sealing technique holding the user outside of the grim reapers grasp. In the second part of this Forbidden fuinjutsu a second person, usually younger then the user now trapped in the scroll, and a third person will be needed. With the second person laying down and chest exposed the scroll would be placed upright over the heart the third person holding the scroll still with his palms pressing the scroll gently against the chest of the second party focusing chakra from their palms into the scroll causing the glow of the scroll to diminish as the being of the user starts to tie and bond to the second person taking over the position of the second persons. Their memories and lives now entwined there chakras combine as well increasing the chakra reserves of the new user of this jutsu. The body retains all of its training it had received along with the skills of the first user. Inside a new body the user would feel discomfort at first as they get use to the jutsu’s effect and unsure if they or the second person used for this jutsu did what their memories said. The cycle continues until the scroll for this jutsu is destroyed and then the user is killed before they could be bonded to a new scroll.[/spoiler]
You can even ask Kayenta, I have been using the technique for years......
Have any of your apparent and avoided "deaths" been due to being Human Path'ed? That seems like one of the few things I could think of which would for-sure kill someone. Even Edo Tensei is highly vulnerable to it. And when you have been transferred into a new body, was the body an NPC one, or an actual player character (not alt) that was captured and bound?
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Have any of your apparent and avoided "deaths" been due to being Human Path'ed? That seems like one of the few things I could think of which would for-sure kill someone. Even Edo Tensei is highly vulnerable to it. And when you have been transferred into a new body, was the body an NPC one, or an actual player character (not alt) that was captured and bound?
Oh he dies alright, his soul just isn't stored anywhere else but that scroll according to the jutsu statistics. And well, there's a reason usually ressurection techniques occur behind closed doors. ;) Additionally, the jutsu itself does not seem to specify what kind of person it needs to be.
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Quick question that I'm posing for the busy Tsuyo. The question, can you Human path someone to learn Edo Tensei? I know for most cases this will work, but this is the strictest enforced jutsu on SL, so it deserves to be asked. The only reason why I could possibly see why not is due to the teacher-student rule, as I recall Yumei having the scroll for hiraishin, but Dark still had to teach him it, though I could be mistaken.
Thoughts, answers, suggestions?
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Quick question that I'm posing for the busy Tsuyo. The question, can you Human path someone to learn Edo Tensei? I know for most cases this will work, but this is the strictest enforced jutsu on SL, so it deserves to be asked. The only reason why I could possibly see why not is due to the teacher-student rule, as I recall Yumei having the scroll for hiraishin, but Dark still had to teach him it, though I could be mistaken.
Thoughts, answers, suggestions?
Simple, he absorbed my mind, there for he assimilated the teacher position in the Edo Tensei. Though since it is no longer me with the jutsu I doubt people will mind as much. Fun fact, according to Dark there never was a teacher-student rule for Hiraishin, it was just strongly suggested. So Edo Tensei's is based off nothing.
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I'm just gonna go ahead and claim Edo Tensei now.
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All this talk of Edo Tensei and reviving people! I feel like a hipster being the only one to use Muki Tensei and put it to some good use.
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Being a hipster is so mainstream nowadays.
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Who needs the Edo Tensei when you got the Dragon Balls?
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Unlocked.
Please refrain from off-topic subjects and spamming as this won't be tolerated. :evil:
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So the NEW current matter is the teacher-student limit going from 1 student to 2?
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Before that, I think all current rules or proposed rules in this giant thread need to be restated. Edo users are tired of going through the pages to find the rules. I have to go right now, so somebody do it now, or I'll do it later.
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Before that, I think all current rules or proposed rules in this giant thread need to be restated. Edo users are tired of going through the pages to find the rules. I have to go right now, so somebody do it now, or I'll do it later.
I feel users of the Edo Tensei need to collaborate together and change the rules since I too myself, spotted many loopholes.
That is if you're on board, Trevor. ;)
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Before that, I think all current rules or proposed rules in this giant thread need to be restated. Edo users are tired of going through the pages to find the rules. I have to go right now, so somebody do it now, or I'll do it later.
I feel users of the Edo Tensei need to collaborate together and change the rules since I too myself, spotted many loopholes.
That is if you're on board, Trevor. ;)
I'm not a user of Edo, but due to my village of choice, Oto. I've come to be indulged in it more than others. So if allowed, I'd like to pop in some opinions every now and then.
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I'm not a user of Edo, but due to my village of choice, Oto. I've come to be indulged in it more than others. So if allowed, I'd like to pop in some opinions every now and then.
I have no problem with this as unbiased opinions from another group would be much appreciated. :)
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I'm not a user of Edo, but due to my village of choice, Oto. I've come to be indulged in it more than others. So if allowed, I'd like to pop in some opinions every now and then.
I have no problem with this as unbiased opinions from another group would be much appreciated. :)
[/quote]
Well thank you.
I say Edo can only be used up to 3 times per person using it? >>;
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Alright guys, hang in there with me as I'm going to try to summarize the pages of rules before this. I'm likely to miss some, so....blah!
- In order to use the Edo Tensei technique, an deceased rp player's dna must be obtained, and an actual non npc player must be sacrificed. A player's alt may not be used, like Bocc did with some of his accounts before this rule.
- When fighting an opponent, the Edo user must maintain a 1v1 ratio of zombies to opponents.
- The maximum amount of zombies ever on the field of battle at one time is six.
- Edo Tensei zombies may not be used in biju fights. However, like anything else with a biju fight it may be negotiated for, but the default setting is that they're not allowed.
- To give a zombie an implant, something else must be traded off for it. Ex. I give a zombie a sharingan implant, but he loses the ability to use Mokuton, etc.
- There is a Teacher-Student rule in place. Meaning, you are allowed to teach a single person. Neither can teach the technique, unless the other dies.
- If the information is pirated from someone (Ex, Human Path) the person who attains the knowledge takes the spot of the person they robbed it from, and the above rule applies.
This is all I can recall for right now, but I'm sure there is more. Also, some of these rules not many agreed to (Like the last one in the list) because the thread was locked. Any of these rules may be argued against and more may be added, I simply just tried to list the proposed ones.
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I'm cool with this set of rules but why can't one use the Edo Tensei in a biju match normally?
Also, would that mean I have the teacher position over you, Trev?
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People thought it was unfair, I suppose. It's a couple of pages back, I myself disagree and think it's fine as long as you maintain the 1:1 ratio, meaning only one zombie could be used the entire fight. But others disagree.
Yes, that would mean you take over the position, meaning I can't teach until you die and vice versa. However, not many people agreed or disagreed to this rule (In fact, only Bocc said it and spam happened resulting in a lock) So if anything that rule will likely be modified/removed.
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Loads of jutsu are unfair. Like you said, as long as the 1:1 ratio works it's fine. I thought this was the point of that ratio bit in the first place. Or that's how Bocc made it seem.
Yay! the one restriction that keeps everyone from playing god removed, lol Quite annoying if you ask me. It only causes more player death if a person is that ambitious. Not to mention it's one of the more powerful of the kinjutsu out there.
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Remembered another rule, Edo Zombies can't host biju.
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Alright guys, hang in there with me as I'm going to try to summarize the pages of rules before this. I'm likely to miss some, so....blah!
- In order to use the Edo Tensei technique, an deceased rp player's dna must be obtained, and an actual non npc player must be sacrificed. A player's alt may not be used, like Bocc did with some of his accounts before this rule.
- When fighting an opponent, the Edo user must maintain a 1v1 ratio of zombies to opponents.
- The maximum amount of zombies ever on the field of battle at one time is six.
- Edo Tensei zombies may not be used in biju fights. However, like anything else with a biju fight it may be negotiated for, but the default setting is that they're not allowed.
- To give a zombie an implant, something else must be traded off for it. Ex. I give a zombie a sharingan implant, but he loses the ability to use Mokuton, etc.
- There is a Teacher-Student rule in place. Meaning, you are allowed to teach a single person. Neither can teach the technique, unless the other dies.
- If the information is pirated from someone (Ex, Human Path) the person who attains the knowledge takes the spot of the person they robbed it from, and the above rule applies.
This is all I can recall for right now, but I'm sure there is more. Also, some of these rules not many agreed to (Like the last one in the list) because the thread was locked. Any of these rules may be argued against and more may be added, I simply just tried to list the proposed ones.
I have no problems so far including the one about Zombies cannot host bijuus.
However the rules need some re-wording and some modification.
I just have one question to ask everyone and give me your input.
What about using them for the Six Paths technique? :oops:
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That sir in my opinion is a tricky question, I suppose the ratio rule stands. It's a little bit tricky, as nobody really uses six paths, so what's accepted with it, is often debatable.
The most opinions I get on Six paths is that all six are allowed to be used, but they maintain no knowledge of prior techniques and only have the rinnegan ability associated with them and the main host may not use the Rinny hacks while they're out. So it's hard to determine if you could use Edo for this, I assume not as it goes against the ratio rule. But, like I said it is hard to judge as there is no standard on the six paths technique.
You accept the student-teacher rule? As I recall you were questioning that, have you ceased? Just curious btw.
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That sir in my opinion is a tricky question, I suppose the ratio rule stands. It's a little bit tricky, as nobody really uses six paths, so what's accepted with it, is often debatable.
The most opinions I get on Six paths is that all six are allowed to be used, but they maintain no knowledge of prior techniques and only have the rinnegan ability associated with them and the main host may not use the Rinny hacks while they're out. So it's hard to determine if you could use Edo for this, I assume not as it goes against the ratio rule. But, like I said it is hard to judge as there is no standard on the six paths technique.
You accept the student-teacher rule? As I recall you were questioning that, have you ceased? Just curious btw.
The reason I am asking this right now is to prevent people from abusing the Six Paths technique along with implants with Edo Tensei. (Think Obito vs Naruto and Killer B)
As for the Teacher-Student rule...well it's a tricky subject to agree upon because my role on it is, I am it's co-creator alongside with Ryuuji but since he's gone I maintain the Teacher-Student role over him.
So I can teach whomever I want but after reading down the list of users; Hazama, Shinro, Tessuhai Tsuyo, Trev, Naito.
I don't know what their role is on this little rule or where they stand now.
It's tricky because if one user that was taught dies in some sort of situation, the other maintains a full leadership-role over a teacher position.
Another thing if a user somehow leaves vital information regarding that "technique" in a foreign country, who to say that the shinobi/kunoichi forces of that country can't just research into it then reverse engineer their own Edo Tensei Scroll?
So like I said this Teacher-Student rule is a tricky situation for even me to handle it.
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Well, for six paths if it is allowed to be used, since there Edos, the ratio rules applies, I think.
As for that list and stuff, well this rule is new, meaning it only applies when it was implemented. I'm assuming Ryuuji isn't coming back, so don't look at that as you not being able to teach (Which you don't assume already)
As for the leadership role, don't assume because one is the teacher, they had a leadership role. Just means they taught the technique. Only real perk is not nobody usually teaches for free, so you might haggle something.
As for the Edo list, well.
Kamui-Hazama. That's one role.
Tsuyo-Trev. Another cause of human path rule.
Shinro. By himself. Don't know who taught him.
Naito, talked to Tsuyo about it, not on the list.
As for why it can't be reversed engineered, well it's not allowed with most techniques. For this to be possible, they would have to have a scroll to copy (Mind you, the scroll contains secret seals, likely hard to just guess at) and know how to use Edo and the kata. Very hard feat to do. I mean, I guess it is possible, but it doesn't really apply to things like hiraishin, Jiongu, etc and people generally don't do it.
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Well, for six paths if it is allowed to be used, since there Edos, the ratio rules applies, I think.
As for that list and stuff, well this rule is new, meaning it only applies when it was implemented. I'm assuming Ryuuji isn't coming back, so don't look at that as you not being able to teach (Which you don't assume already)
As for the leadership role, don't assume because one is the teacher, they had a leadership role. Just means they taught the technique. Only real perk is not nobody usually teaches for free, so you might haggle something.
As for the Edo list, well.
Kamui-Hazama. That's one role.
Tsuyo-Trev. Another cause of human path rule.
Shinro. By himself. Don't know who taught him.
Naito, talked to Tsuyo about it, not on the list.
As for why it can't be reversed engineered, well it's not allowed with most techniques. For this to be possible, they would have to have a scroll to copy (Mind you, the scroll contains secret seals, likely hard to just guess at) and know how to use Edo and the kata. Very hard feat to do. I mean, I guess it is possible, but it doesn't really apply to things like hiraishin, Jiongu, etc and people generally don't do it.
As well, Kyu was taught by Kamui.
Of course this being before the student-teacher rule is being made 'official' here.
But as for student-teacher techniques not being able to be reverse engineered I think for SOME things like the Edo it might be more complicated because of the amount of things needed. But for things like Hiraishin? All we've seen that someone needs is the seal and knows how to use it, and given enough studying and whatnot it's completely possible. I dunno, it seems to me that OOC rules shouldn't dictate the RP. Like the seal keeping anyone from spilling the beans about Hiraishin was a good way to go about keeping it a secret, and as long as a user didn't go around spamming it and leaving seals everywhere it would remain that way. (And we all know this wasn't the case)
So just like in the manga/show if you're not careful with your secrets, they'll be found out. I think it adds a bit of restraint to those who use the technique if they know the risk of using the technique too much.
But that's just my two cents on that particular idea o.O
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And I agree, like I said, it would be hard to do with Edo, but not impossible. I'm just saying people don't typically try as there is a load of hate on them. I personally wouldn't mind if someone figured out Edo legitimately.
The only problem I foresee is that being abused. Example being, a Edo user letting his scroll be seen, describing the technique, showing the kata, etc. Basically, I wouldn't want reverse engineering to be a loophole for users to get by the Student-Teacher rule, know what I mean?
As for Kyu, well I assumed because Kamui didn't list him, he voided it. Guess we'll have to wait for him to get on, eh?
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The only problem I foresee is that being abused. Example being, a Edo user letting his scroll be seen, describing the technique, showing the kata, etc. Basically, I wouldn't want reverse engineering to be a loophole for users to get by the Student-Teacher rule, know what I mean?
However this little loophole has been exposed already as in case with the Hiraishin and that lead up to a Teacher-Student rule being placed unofficially.
When someone discovers a loophole and monetized on that opportunity well somewhere along the ladder of users of that technique, someone will conveniently place some sort of "rule" to prevent this.
But Darkshinobi said before that these "rules" imposed are unofficial.
It's more of a placement to prevent further abuse of techniques; namely powerful ones.
As for Kyu, well I assumed because Kamui didn't list him, he voided it. Guess we'll have to wait for him to get on, eh?
I never had the time to list Kyu.
I assumed he would do it himself because he has an account to do so.
Never voided anything.
However I'm trying to sort this out since I engaged with Kyu first then Hazama came second since he had to deal with the Kusagakure/Iwagakure situation during our meeting.
Edit: I check the logs between both RP scenarios but mine with Kyu's started around: [05/22 05:47am] and then ended on [05/25 10:24pm].
While Hazama's started [05/15 02:10am] then ended at [05/22 02:08am].
However I made a re-post to start it up again on [05/24 07:31pm].
My new RP with Hazama ended on [05/25 02:37am].
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So.... Who are you going with for teaching? xD
So basically, the only rules being debated are
- Teacher-Student
- Not being able to use them in biju fights
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So.... Who are you going with for teaching? xD
So basically, the only rules being debated are
- Teacher-Student
- Not being able to use them in biju fights
If no one has any quarrels with this choice of mine, I would like Kyu to have my teacher position and Hazama can already keep his "claims". (Kyu will maintain the Teacher-Student position over Hazama)
I'm gonna remove myself from the list of users and place me as an official Edo Tensei NPC/PC.
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So that leaves one rule left in debate; Edo Tenseis are not allowed in biju fights. I think it should be treated like any other fight and we can at least use one, like any other situation. We don't block other op jutsu from fights? Thoughts?
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So that leaves one rule left in debate; Edo Tenseis are not allowed in biju fights. I think it should be treated like any other fight and we can at least use one, like any other situation. We don't block other op jutsu from fights? Thoughts?
Let's say this if a Jinchuuriki agrees to the usage of the 1:1 user/ET ratio then it really should be treated like any other fight.
I just don't really want to see it abused like Bocchiere used it when he attacked other villages.
The ratio should still apply, since it's indeed fair as "Summons" count towards this ratio.
I don't know if this was mention but Edo Tensei can't host bijuus and that's pretty much it.
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I suppose, most Jinchuuriki will say no though. But yeah, only one zombie in accordance to the ratio rule. No more.
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Well, I agree that it should be able to be used, and can easily be countered (Clones, seals, and the various weaknesses of edo in general). It's a jutsu just like any other. Out of curiosity, was this biju rule placed before or after the ratio rule?
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Well, I agree that it should be able to be used, and can easily be countered (Clones, seals, and the various weaknesses of edo in general). It's a jutsu just like any other. Out of curiosity, was this biju rule placed before or after the ratio rule?
Clarify.
The one about the Edo Tensei hosting bijuus or the one about not allowing them in official Jinchuuriki fights?
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official jinchuuriki fights.
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So that leaves one rule left in debate; Edo Tenseis are not allowed in biju fights. I think it should be treated like any other fight and we can at least use one, like any other situation. We don't block other op jutsu from fights? Thoughts?
Let's say this if a Jinchuuriki agrees to the usage of the 1:1 user/ET ratio then it really should be treated like any other fight.
I just don't really want to see it abused like Bocchiere used it when he attacked other villages.
The ratio should still apply, since it's indeed fair as "Summons" count towards this ratio.
I don't know if this was mention but Edo Tensei can't host bijuus and that's pretty much it.
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Edo Tensei, just like other over-powered ninpou, should be allowed to be used in bijuu battles.
As I said before, using the technique should just have a huge chakra cost. It's as simple as that.
But if you guys are really focused on limiting this ninpou, I'm not against only using one Edo summoning per bijuu challenge. How does that sound?
@Trev: No one taught me. I simply introduced the ninpou officially via rp when I was affiliated with Edo Jigoku, the organization.
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In reply to Tsuyo, I think around the same time, you'll have to go back pages to find out. People just wanted Edo to be used in open RP and not biju fights.
I'm fine with giving up some chakra for a summon and only using one for a biju fight, seems fair.
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That's fair to me as well. The one per biju fight suggestion, as well as having to give up a lot of chakra to summon out a zombie.
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As for Chakra cost, 10% of your chakra pool should suffice to summon one Edo Summoning.
Now, I'm actually willing to debuff this ninpou even more...
- How about if halve of the chakra the Edo summoning uses for Ninjutsu, gets reduced out of the summoner's chakra pool? The only advantage to Edo Tensei would be the variety of ninjutsu that would be available to you.
- Outside bijuu battles, the limit of Edo summonings per battle should be 3, just like it was originally shown during the first battle of Orochimaru vs. The Second Hokage. Also, only 2 Edo summonings can be at play at the same time. If any of those Edo summonings are restricted by fuinjutsu or are dismissed by the user, one more can be summoned.
This is how I was originally going to debuff Edo Tensei, but I didn't have the time to do that because of health issues. Fortunately, I'm doing better now, and I wish to know what you guys think of my ideas? Is it too much? Too little? Too perfect? Do tell.
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10% per zombie seems fair to me, but taking away chakra to use Edo moves from the summoner seems like too much. Plus people are just going to find loophole and get more tai based zombies instead.
As for a limit, I think we already have a good and fair system that people seem to like. Maintain a 1v1 ratio rule, with a max of six. So if you say took on a village, and summoned six, that's 60% of your chakra right there. Never mind furthering reducing your chakra by paying for their moves.
If anything, for a different nerf, have putting Edos on the field put a strain on the user. This would make people use it more like the manga, and have their zombies fight for them while they watch, instead of summoning the zombies and having yourself join in on the onslaught.
Obviously the strain would be moderate at best.
Thoughts?
Edit: In retrospect, that seems harder to implement, perhaps just add the 10% rule to the list we have and be done with this.
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- How about if halve of the chakra the Edo summoning uses for Ninjutsu, gets reduced out of the summoner's chakra pool? The only advantage to Edo Tensei would be the variety of ninjutsu that would be available to you.
If anything, for a different nerf, have putting Edos on the field put a strain on the user. This would make people use it more like the manga, and have their zombies fight for them while they watch, instead of summoning the zombies and having yourself join in on the onslaught.
I don't like either of these ideas just for the fact that neither tend to make much sense to me in my head. Edo is a trump for a reason, and what happens if one summons the max of Six Zombies? If you half your chakra pool for Jutsu and such, six times, after summoning six zombies.... Or even one zombie. You are at 90% after summoning, then you have to half that for jutsu uses and such? That takes you done to 45% right there, stopping you from logically having any more zombies than one or two.
As for the physical strain, although I understand the fact of trying to add some sort of drawback, in a Bijuu fight, or any fight, stepping back and letting a zombie would be meaningless since the fact of the jutsu, more or less, is to give the edge to the summoner in the end.
Regardless, that's just my two cents on that...
I'd also like to ask this;
What about in your own village? For example; If I have four zombies that are dressed like ANBU for my village that simply 'prowl' and such like any other ANBU, is there a rule against that? Already summoned, and just acting like any other Shinobi, obviously them being on auto... Is there anything against this? Or is this allowed?
Edit: In retrospect, that seems harder to implement, perhaps just add the 10% rule to the list we have and be done with this.
^ That.
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- Outside bijuu battles, the limit of Edo summonings per battle should be 3, just like it was originally shown during the first battle of Orochimaru vs. The Second Hokage. Also, only 2 Edo summonings can be at play at the same time. If any of those Edo summonings are restricted by fuinjutsu or are dismissed by the user, one more can be summoned.
I have no problem with this since raising the limit to six is waaay to much and can be abused.
Also I have no problem with cutting the chakra costs from a quarter to ten percent of your current chakra pools.
If you're using Edo Tensei 's forces for NPC guards, well it *won't* count towards the limit unless they become engage with another user then the 1:1 ratio will apply. (User/ET | ET/ET | ETC)
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I don't think the limit for six is that bad, as that means your fighting six or more people. Usually for this scenario to play out, your in a village fight or just got jumped by a group of people. But that's my opinion.
If you're using Edo Tensei 's forces for NPC guards, well it *won't* count towards the limit unless they become engage with another user then the 1:1 ratio will apply. (User/ET | ET/ET | ETC)
^ Yep, outside of battle you can have as many Edos out as you want. But as soon as a fight begins, the ratio rule kicks in.
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Forgive me if I overstep my boundaries with this statement, but I find it questionable that those who are responsible for coming up with Edo Tensei rules are...the sole users of Edo Tensei. No matter how much someone tries to be unbiased on the issue, if you are a user, there will always be a level of subconscious favoritism towards your own "trump". Trust me, it's human nature. It's natural for everybody.
Also, it takes 50% of your chakra to create a single shadow clone. A single Shadow Clone. Based on that measurement it seems silly for Edo Tensei to only take 10%. Just thought I'd point that out.
Oh, and guess I'll also add that having a super high chakra cost for "summoning" your Edo Tensei summons really isn't a weakness due to the high number of work-arounds it has. As Shinro would know, on TNF we call those kinds of weaknesses, "Fake Weaknesses". I already count 3 completely valid work-arounds to this chakra cost requirements that anyone can do to make the "high chakra cost" requirement null.
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Realistically a single shadow clone would cost more. When you summon an Edo in battle that is literally all you are doing, performing a Kuchiyose to bring the zombie to you. The ritual to create it would have been done before hand, just saying.
There really isn't any direct weakness to Edo Tensei in combat. The only weakness the jutsu has is the prep work, you need to kill someone or get the DNA of someone who has been killed, and get a living body to sacrifice to summon them back. Unless we want to make up things that don't exist canonically there really isn't a way to limit the jutsu. It seems there is already a limit on the zombies, no? 6 of them? And the 1:1 ratio makes it so you can only summon as many as people you are fighting.
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Forgive me if I overstep my boundaries with this statement, but I find it questionable that those who are responsible for coming up with Edo Tensei rules are...the sole users of Edo Tensei. No matter how much someone tries to be unbiased on the issue, if you are a user, there will always be a level of subconscious favoritism towards your own "trump". Trust me, it's human nature. It's natural for everybody.
I think you misunderstand the meaning behind favoritism, if we were picking favorites around here then wouldn't we not be nerfing this kinjutsu?
The problem is I don't want another Bocchiere and I'm sure no one wants that.
I want be stern yet fair when it comes to addressing this.
Also, it takes 50% of your chakra to create a single shadow clone. A single Shadow Clone. Based on that measurement it seems silly for Edo Tensei to only take 10%. Just thought I'd point that out.
I missed this information.
Let's see here; "The user's chakra is evenly distributed among every clone, giving each clone an equal fraction of the user's overall power"
So it's somewhat correct, If I make a single clone...well fifty-percentage of my chakras get distributed into it.
However when it comes to making three of them, well you must divide twenty-five percent.
Either way I see where you're coming with this because I wanted some input from someone other then users of Edo Tensei or those associated with it.
I thank you for this.
Oh, and guess I'll also add that having a super high chakra cost for "summoning" your Edo Tensei summons really isn't a weakness due to the high number of work-arounds it has. As Shinro would know, on TNF we call those kinds of weaknesses, "Fake Weaknesses". I already count 3 completely valid work-arounds to this chakra cost requirements that anyone can do to make the "high chakra cost" requirement null.
So here's my stance, I rather go with a quarter-percentage of chakra costs rather then ten-percentage or better yet how about you give me a percentage to work with, Purple.
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Well, I find having a whole assortment of rules questionable in the first place, as no other technique has this many rules called out by so many other people.
Though I see your point in saying that most of the rules are being decided by Edo users, but most of these rules were already in the place and the only real positive thing we gained out of this are we can use one in a biju fight. In fact two more nerfs are being discussed, which is using a decent amount of chakra to summon one (note the amount before was unspecified and even less) and the limit from 6 to 3 is being discussed.
I mean this forum isn't hidden from anybody (the excuse that is always used, I know) and anybody can chime in on it. Most don't seem to care as much anymore and don't chime in on it (As you know it says when someone post in something, so to anybody that visits the forum, this isn't new) More Edo users are posting here, because it effects them more.
No disrespect though :P just sharing my opinion.
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So here's my stance, I rather go with a quarter-percentage of chakra costs rather then ten-percentage or better yet how about you give me a percentage to work with, Purple.
>.> I don't know why people keep thinking Zojin is me, but Zojin is actually my girlfriend. I am my ownnnn person. XD
But on the topic of this discussion, I think that having a "limit" of 6 edo tensei summons is barely even considered a limit at all. Edo tensei summons are essentially a pool of infinite chakra. When there are people who kill off their characters, name change the account to something else and kill it off again, they can keep making new edo tensei with stacks of resets without actually having to make new fresh accounts while the user behind said account is the same. They can make whatever characters they like without having to actually go through the time and effort to kill others, and can have an army of summonable crazy powerful characters at their fingertips even though it's all coming from one account.
Now if 2 people go into battle, but have 6 edo tensei each, that's essentially an army of 14 people being controlled by only 2 users (12 of which will never die or get exhausted).
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So here's my stance, I rather go with a quarter-percentage of chakra costs rather then ten-percentage or better yet how about you give me a percentage to work with, Purple.
>.> I don't know why people keep thinking Zojin is me, but Zojin is actually my girlfriend. I am my ownnnn person. XD
Mind. Blown.
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So here's my stance, I rather go with a quarter-percentage of chakra costs rather then ten-percentage or better yet how about you give me a percentage to work with, Purple.
>.> I don't know why people keep thinking Zojin is me, but Zojin is actually my girlfriend. I am my ownnnn person. XD
Mind. Blown.
;)
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lng4aqCT1T1qepqf7o1_400.gif)
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Warning to ya guys, the mighty mod Camel said he wasn't going to have spam this time around in this thread, just warning ya :roll:
Anyway, since people seem to have a problem with six, I'll concede my stance and go with Shinro's 3 or 2 or whatever he said.
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How is this still going? What's really our goal here? Debuffing Edo Tensei shouldn't be that hard.
- Limit Edo Tensei to only 3 summonings per battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used per bijuu battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used to declare (or continue) an attack per post
- 20% of chakra should be the cost for each summoning
- If an Edo summonings is sealed or captured, the user takes some damage or exhausts some stamina. (Good idea, no?)
- As long as Edo Tensei is being used, the user can't use one of the following: attack move, defense move or supplementary move. (you guys decide on this)
Those are my suggestions to cripple Edo Tensei. Debuffing this ninpou was my idea from the beginning, so I agree with anything that cripples Edo Tensei even more. To those users that aren't willing to accept more weakness to Edo Tensei, I suggest you give up on the jutsu because it will be debuffed. I seriously won't allow another Bocchiere to be born through the usage of Edo Tensei.
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>.> I don't know why people keep thinking Zojin is me, but Zojin is actually my girlfriend. I am my ownnnn person. XD
My mistake, I think I've done this before with you when I confused Zojin for you instead your other character which is married to her. :oops:
@Shinro
I'm fine with everything you listed so far but I would like some input from everyone else before we continue any further.
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Note that I am only here because I am fighting Hazama and may gain Edo Tensei from the fight. Though only part I don't really agree with is saying only one zombie can attack each post. If you are fighting one person you only have one anyway and if you are fighting more people then you just need to constantly make wide ranging defenses while some zombies stand around like derps? That seems kinda odd. Same with the you take damage if they are captured part, that just doesn't really make sense at all to me. I think 20%, one per bijuu fight and the rest is all solid though.
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Is here because he is here..... regardless.
I'm not reading back throw all this but was it ever spoken of or decided about using NPC and/or alts for Edo? I just feel one shouldn't be able to make an alt into his/her edo zombie. This may already have been said to not be allowed or frowned upon I'm just checking.
I use to also argue that you shouldn't be able to use npc as sacrifices, seeing as in my opinion that allowed one to spam creating zombies, but with a limit in place no need npc can't be used for such.
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I agree with Rakudo, most of the rules Shinro listed are fine, except that only one Edo may attack (seems silly if you're using more) I also disagree with the damage part.
In reply to Kirk, both those were previously stated rules, can't use an alt (anymore) and the sacrifice must be a player character as well.
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There really isn't any direct weakness to Edo Tensei in combat. The only weakness the jutsu has is the prep work, you need to kill someone or get the DNA of someone who has been killed, and get a living body to sacrifice to summon them back. Unless we want to make up things that don't exist canonically there really isn't a way to limit the jutsu. It seems there is already a limit on the zombies, no? 6 of them? And the 1:1 ratio makes it so you can only summon as many as people you are fighting.
Right there. I think that's a problem, don't you? I'm all for a balanced system in which strengths are coupled with appropriate weaknesses. Naruto was never written by Kishimoto to be RP'ed, thus the creation of these kinds of weaknessless techniques. The ONLY reason why Edo Tensei was stopped, was due to plot armor quite frankly. And honestly, nobody is ever going to allow their character to get trapped as did Kabuto. This is why we need to make weaknesses for jutsu even though that may mean we deviate from the canon. The prep-work is hardly a weakness at all. Again, it's another "fake weakness".
@ Kamui:
This makes me wonder who else thinks I'm Purple lol. My suggestion to this is rather than altering the percentage of chakra summoning costs, to merely say that once an Edo Tensei is summoned, the user permanently looses that percentage of charka for the duration the Edo is active. This completely cuts out the loophole of pre-summoning Edo Tensei outside of battle, have them chill (or never un-summon them again), then fight with them a few days later after the summoner is completely recovered. This also strikes out the loopholes of summoning then popping a chakra pill to be at 100% again, or having a zombie transfer chakra back to the user.
@Everyone:
I'm okay with most of Pete's rules save for the "only one Edo may attack per post", which I agree with Rakudo about. That runs into the issue of what to do if you are able to summon 3 but yet only be allowed to attack/defend with one? Unless that rules changes to only attack with 1 Edo but the rest have to be defensive.
My suggestion~ (Slight edit from the rules just stated)
- Limit Edo Tensei to only 3 summonings per battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used per bijuu battle
- 15% of chakra should be the cost for each summoning and permanently lost for the duration that the Edo is active. So summoning the max of 3 zombies equals a loss of 45% of the summoner's total chakra pool. Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 15% for that summon.
- If an Edo summoning is sealed or captured, the user takes on 25% of the damage the Edo Tensei received.
- As long as Edo Tensei is being used, the user can only use defensive moves. And these defensive moves can't be used in the motions of an attack.
- Alts & NPCs are not allowed to become Edo Tensei. You also can't trade alts with a friend for Edo Tensei zombies. (If you can't trade sharingan eyes with friends anymore for the EMS you shouldn't be able to to trade Alts with friends to create mutual Edo Tensei.)
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I can agree to most of those rules except "If an Edo summoning is sealed or captured, the user takes on 25% of the damage the Edo Tensei received." I don't really know how that would work, care to explain? I personally don't think one should take damage if there Edo is sealed, as Rakudo said, it's odd.
I don't know how it would work :oops:
Also, no ratio rule or teacher-student?
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I can agree to most of those rules except "If an Edo summoning is sealed or captured, the user takes on 25% of the damage the Edo Tensei received." I don't really know how that would work, care to explain? I personally don't think one should take damage if there Edo is sealed, as Rakudo said, it's odd.
I don't know how it would work :oops:
Also, no ratio rule or teacher-student?
Basically once an Edo Tensei is sealed away, some of the damage it sustained is transfered back to the summoner. Similar to the workings of the Yamanaka Valentine jutsu. Honor code on how much damage exactly is transfered. It sounds like a wonky rule since it's not canon, but I think it's necessary for the balance of the RP. As I said to Rakudo, we'll have to make slight alterations to the Narutoverse to accommodate it for the SL world.
Also, I was under the impression that some people were still discussing the teacher-student and ratio rule. I read back a few pages but didn't see an exact for sure ruling on either of those ideas. I can also throw in my input on those if requested o.o;
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I can agree to most of those rules except "If an Edo summoning is sealed or captured, the user takes on 25% of the damage the Edo Tensei received." I don't really know how that would work, care to explain? I personally don't think one should take damage if there Edo is sealed, as Rakudo said, it's odd.
I don't know how it would work :oops:
Also, no ratio rule or teacher-student?
I also agree that taking damage once an Edo Tensei is sealed or captured doesn't make sense. I think if you're careless enough to get one of your Edo Tensei captured/sealed permanently, then that in itself is a downside since you're losing a specific character that can never be used again.
Plus if Edo Tensei are pretty much invulnerable, how do you even calculate 25% of potentially infinite damage? What if the Edo Tensei had been blown up multiple times by say... a bakuton technique, but reformed each time then eventually got trapped/sealed. How would 25% of being blown up relate to the damage the summoner takes? (sorry that's kind of an extreme example hehe).
I would think losing chakra would make more sense than damage, but then again, I don't have the best insight on balancing techniques. :o
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Well, if my Edo got his head Kamui'd off and than sealed, how do I do 25% of that? Or if he got lite on fire, lotus punched, etc. I just don't see how it would be converted in a fair way (25% of some attacks could still kill someone :/) which is my main reason for disliking this rule.
The mighty Camel dropped the teacher-student rule and nobody else had comments, so that's closed. I'm pretty sure most agree to the ratio rule (Using 3 Edos against one person is hardly a nerf even with chakra reduction, etc) People were arguing between the max amount; 6 or 3 and most are saying 3. But I think the ratio rule is good and fair and should be included.
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@Purps & Trev:
Yeah I can see where you guys are getting at. Probably giving the damage sustained an exact % isn't the best idea. How about this instead?
- Limit Edo Tensei to only 3 summonings per battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used per bijuu battle
- 15% of chakra should be the cost for each summoning and permanently lost for the duration that the Edo is active. So summoning the max of 3 zombies equals a loss of 45% of the summoner's total chakra pool. Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 15% for that summon.
- If an Edo summoning is sealed or captured, the user takes on some of the damage the Edo Tensei received. It's up to the integrity of the summoner to decide how much damage is transfered back.
- As long as Edo Tensei is being used, the user can only use defensive moves. And these defensive moves can't be used in the motions of an attack.
- Alts & NPCs are not allowed to become Edo Tensei. You also can't trade alts with a friend for Edo Tensei zombies. (If you can't trade sharingan eyes with friends anymore for the EMS you shouldn't be able to to trade Alts with friends to create mutual Edo Tensei.)
- 1:1 Ratio rule. You can only summon as many Edo Tensei as there are opponents. 3 is the max.
- Teacher-Student rule.
I do like the idea of sustaining damage since it'll force the summoners to not use their Edo Tensei haphazardly and also force the summoners to put in more thought about how to use their zombies. Yes you can technically have an indestructible juggernaut who can reform after getting blasted in the face with a bijuu ball (exaggeration), but that won't come without some sort of repercussion.
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I agree with everything Zojin just summed up except for the damage part. You should know that your zombies can be sealed away or killed by soul removal techniques and you then lose them for good, I don't see the point of adding this. How is it done even? Is it all the damage the zombie took? If it got stabbed 50 times do you take 10 stab wounds worth of damage? Personally I just think this is unneeded.
A question though, I do agree with the permanent chakra loss during the fight, BUT how does it work for things like jinchuriki? If I have the 8 tails and use 45% of my own chakra to summon my three zombies well yippy skippy I still have 80 peoples worth of chakra to draw on. Same thing for Jiongu depending on how you claim that works. You either have up to 4 seperate chakra pools and in that case it is the same problem as a jinchuriki or the hearts just give you ONE MASSIVE chakra pool, and in that case people who kill 4 kage level people are gonna go "Ok 55% of my chakra pool is still at least 100% of yours."
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People with a bijuu can't make Edo's and can't command any? >>;
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People with a bijuu can't make Edo's and can't command any? >>;
This is what we are going to end up doing to this jutsu at this rate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pOkZIay0J00#t=61s
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People with a bijuu can't make Edo's and can't command any? >>;
No >>
I once again agree with Rakudo. There is no real way to determine how much damage would be taken. Plus if we want to get rid of loopholes, "It's up to the integrity of the summoner to decide how much damage is transfered back" should not be used as a policy. The rule is good on paper, but I don't see how it could be used and thus am still against it.
I'm all for the other rules, though the chakra consumption rule might get tricky with those who have an outside source of chakra (biju, Jiongu, etc)
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People with a bijuu can't make Edo's and can't command any? >>;
No >>
I once again agree with Rakudo. There is no real way to determine how much damage would be taken. Plus if we want to get rid of loopholes, "It's up to the integrity of the summoner to decide how much damage is transfered back" should not be used as a policy. The rule is good on paper, but I don't see how it could be used and thus am still against it.
I'm all for the other rules, though the chakra consumption rule might get tricky with those who have an outside source of chakra (biju, Jiongu, etc)
As for chakra consumption, there really is no trick to it from what I've read, unless you don't intend on putting numbers on how much chakra you have from the get-go. xD
And damage reflection to user doesn't seem all that sensible. Why not just have the zombie have to regenerate a certain amount of turns each time depending on how much of an injury it would have taken? A jutsu that takes off your head, for example, would take more turns to regenerate than if just a hand was removed.
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Sacrificing 15% of one's chakra pool to summon an immortal zombie with an unlimited amount of chakra seems more like a huge perk than a con. Might as well make it 25% per, as well as requiring a good amount of concentration to simply control the zombies themselves. Hashirama was able to freely move himself around, even with Oro trying to control him with the empowerment of his own genes.
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As for the concentration, that is easily looped around. Simply put a talisman in the zombie and they shut up, even the mighty Hashirama.
Eric's idea seems more plausible, rather than the user taking damage. Could work something like
Minor wounds: 1 turn
Moderate to serious wounds: 2 turns
Normally fatal: 3 turns.
^Not a suggested system, just an example of how Eric's rule would work.
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As for the concentration, that is easily looped around. Simply put a talisman in the zombie and they shut up, even the mighty Hashirama.
Eric's idea seems more plausible, rather than the user taking damage. Could work something like
Minor wounds: 1 turn
Moderate to serious wounds: 2 turns
Normally fatal: 3 turns.
^Not a suggested system, just an example of how Eric's rule would work.
That's the thing though. If the revived isn't your average shinobi, then they would be harder to control and keep still before you could set the talisman in the first place.
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If you are so worried about the zombie turning on you, why not just put them on auto from the get-go, or implant the talisman right after completion of the technique itself (prior to storage, but after the sacrifice has been made and such).
Of course, there are loopholes to loop around those as well, such as the emotional state of the zombie reflecting their ability to be controlled. And as for regeneration:
"Minor" (some scratches or bruises, nothing too bad) - no turn needed
"Minor Moderate" (broken limbs or cuts that would cause bleeding, more than a paper cut, no bleedout danger however) 1 turn
"Moderate" (Loss of a hand, foot, or similar appendages, getting run through by the average sword or getting smashed by certain levels of taijutsu) 2 turns
"Minor serious" (Loss of a limb, serious run throughs with swords of ninja swordsmen size, 'knockout' blows such as hidden lotus) 3 turns
"Serious" (Death were they still alive) 3-4 turns
"You just got your life knocked out!" (Complete obliteration, such as when Madara brought down the meteors, or dust release victim) 4-5 turns.
Just suggestions.
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If you are so worried about the zombie turning on you, why not just put them on auto from the get-go, or implant the talisman right after completion of the technique itself (prior to storage, but after the sacrifice has been made and such).
Oh, I do. Not worried about that, just simply stated that a concentration rule is mostly useless due to talisman or being put on auto pilot (Even Hashirama was caught in part one)
Anyway, I liked Eric's rule much better than the user damage one (Makes more sense and is easily applied to Sl.)
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If you are so worried about the zombie turning on you, why not just put them on auto from the get-go, or implant the talisman right after completion of the technique itself (prior to storage, but after the sacrifice has been made and such).
Oh, I do. Not worried about that, just simply stated that a concentration rule is mostly useless due to talisman or being put on auto pilot (Even Hashirama was caught in part one)
Anyway, I liked Eric's rule much better than the user damage one (Makes more sense and is easily applied to Sl.)
Hashirama and Tobirama weren't even revived at full power in part 1, so that's why Oro was able to restrain them so easily. The only control that the summoner has at first is simply to restrain their movements, if they're even powerful enough to. It's after the talismans were inserted that the summoner has control over their summons.
Though in part 2 when the two were revived again, they were almost at their full power. And even then, there was noticeable trouble with controlling them without talismans. Tobirama would have gone off to the battlefield right away if it weren't for Oro taking over a Zetsu clone and having Senju cells. But even then, Hashirama was able to break totally free of his control and was only staying because he simply wanted to.
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What's this full power thing you are talking about? When Oro revived them in part 1 they were under full control, he rose them up and then put the tags in them. In part two they are under Kabuto's partial control so they can talk to Sasuke, which is weaker, hence why Hashi could resist it. Since I voided my fight with Hazama I'm not going to have Edo Tensei any time soon but I am still interested in this.
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What's this full power thing you are talking about? When Oro revived them in part 1 they were under full control, he rose them up and then put the tags in them. In part two they are under Kabuto's partial control so they can talk to Sasuke, which is weaker, hence why Hashi could resist it. Since I voided my fight with Hazama I'm not going to have Edo Tensei any time soon but I am still interested in this.
Part 1
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-123-1/naruto/chapter-118.html
Part 2
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/3
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What are we supposed to be seeing here?
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He's referring to them not being at full power. Meaning they were weaker. He wasn't talking about the sealing.
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I don't really see where it says there is a power difference, so if somebody pointed that out to me. >> Only difference I note, is that Orochimaru the second time around didn't care too much about controlling them.
Anyway, to keep this topic more rules orientated, you guys for replacing the damage to user rule with the Edo regeneration rate rules?
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Should have specified the pages in my last post, but from the bottom of page 10-13.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/10
To summarize, Oro states that he can limit their movements. Tobirama states that this time they have been revived near full strength, and it was Oro's mistake to do that since they could break free easily. Then Tobirama is actually restrained, and Hashirama points out that it was only because of the cells he has (Hashirama's) that the restraining was strengthened. But even then, Oro states in his mind that he cannot control Hashirama, who has already broken free of the restraints.
That's what one of the real risks behind the jutsu is. If you bring back someone who was pretty powerful, they could break free and pretty much screw you over before you can even put that controlling talisman in their head. What's even worse, is if the summoner is actually killed in the struggle before being able to undo the Edo Tensei. (As Itachi stated in chapter 578) So not only would the Edo Tensei'd be free, they would be near-indestructable and have unlimited chakra. Sure they miss out on a few perks here and there, but those two factors alone could make anyone a juggernaut.
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Should have specified the pages in my last post, but from the bottom of page 10-13.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/10
To summarize, Oro states that he can limit their movements. Tobirama states that this time they have been revived near full strength, and it was Oro's mistake to do that since they could break free easily. Then Tobirama is actually restrained, and Hashirama points out that it was only because of the cells he has (Hashirama's) that the restraining was strengthened. But even then, Oro states in his mind that he cannot control Hashirama, who has already broken free of the restraints.
That's what one of the real risks behind the jutsu is. If you bring back someone who was pretty powerful, they could break free and pretty much screw you over before you can even put that controlling talisman in their head. What's even worse, is if the summoner is actually killed in the struggle before being able to undo the Edo Tensei. (As Itachi stated in chapter 578) So not only would the Edo Tensei'd be free, they would be near-indestructable and have unlimited chakra. Sure they miss out on a few perks here and there, but those two factors alone could make anyone a juggernaut.
This is a good point to make... however, I truly doubt anyone will rp their zombie turning on them. I mean really these zombies are NPC (99%) and the user isn't gonna do that for the simple reason it would cause them trouble. So yeah, I like the idea of the user having to concentrate on keeping these zombies under raps a bit harder... Which I think goes back to the user can only defend. So it seems to work itself out to me in the end.
On a side note I also like what Eric spoke of. The whole reforming in one post is a bit rash in my opinion.
Also just out of curiosity. An edo can't host a tailed beast correct? I ask cause Kamui is an edo and we are fighting over the two-tails at the moment... so are free lance zombies a special case? Also sense Kamui is out and about does that count towards the person who summoned him being at a constant loss of the chakra drain caused from using the jutsu?
I am not trying to say Kamui doesn't have the right to challenge for a tailed beast sense he could use it in the fashion Madara used the nine-tails and such. I am simply wondering if these, what I call, free lance Edo Zombies share any sort of side effects or anything as to the other zombies used by the user them self in battle.
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Should have specified the pages in my last post, but from the bottom of page 10-13.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620/10
To summarize, Oro states that he can limit their movements. Tobirama states that this time they have been revived near full strength, and it was Oro's mistake to do that since they could break free easily. Then Tobirama is actually restrained, and Hashirama points out that it was only because of the cells he has (Hashirama's) that the restraining was strengthened. But even then, Oro states in his mind that he cannot control Hashirama, who has already broken free of the restraints.
That's what one of the real risks behind the jutsu is. If you bring back someone who was pretty powerful, they could break free and pretty much screw you over before you can even put that controlling talisman in their head. What's even worse, is if the summoner is actually killed in the struggle before being able to undo the Edo Tensei. (As Itachi stated in chapter 578) So not only would the Edo Tensei'd be free, they would be near-indestructable and have unlimited chakra. Sure they miss out on a few perks here and there, but those two factors alone could make anyone a juggernaut.
This is a good point to make... however, I truly doubt anyone will rp their zombie turning on them. I mean really these zombies are NPC (99%) and the user isn't gonna do that for the simple reason it would cause them trouble. So yeah, I like the idea of the user having to concentrate on keeping these zombies under raps a bit harder... Which I think goes back to the user can only defend. So it seems to work itself out to me in the end.
On a side note I also like what Eric spoke of. The whole reforming in one post is a bit rash in my opinion.
Also just out of curiosity. An edo can't host a tailed beast correct? I ask cause Kamui is an edo and we are fighting over the two-tails at the moment... so are free lance zombies a special case? Also sense Kamui is out and about does that count towards the person who summoned him being at a constant loss of the chakra drain caused from using the jutsu?
I am not trying to say Kamui doesn't have the right to challenge for a tailed beast sense he could use it in the fashion Madara used the nine-tails and such. I am simply wondering if these, what I call, free lance Edo Zombies share any sort of side effects or anything as to the other zombies used by the user them self in battle.
Isn't Bocchiere the one who Edo Tensei'd Kamui? He is also an Edo Tensei now so I don't think he's hard up for chakra. Trev was the one who "owned" the Kamui zombie before his release though, so this would be directed at him. I think he just took the control tag out of Kamui and went "Knock yourself out."
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Yeah, what Rakudo said. Bocc summoned him, and I just kinda stole him for a bit and when he wanted to be Kamui again, kinda let him go. Whether that deducts chakra from someone is a good point though.
As for the biju thing, it might have not been restated in the new rules (Zojin's list) but an old rule is that they can't host a biju (Can still challenge and pull a Madara) Though unless that rule is restated and everybody wants it, I'm assuming it void as of right now. Though, now that you brought it back to attention, it will likely get added again.
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It is a canon restrain that the zombies cannot host bijuu, the only exceptions seen being prior to Madara's revelation on the point. That exception was when Obito used the former hosts as Paths, except the special powers they possessed were the powers of the bijuu (sharingan and rinnegan as well, but that's implant and besides the point).
So without breaking out into cumbersome details, it's canon that ordinary Edo zombies cannot host bijuu.
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I suppose that is a good point, I forgot they got their biju powers from the chakra rods and that the biju were still in the mazo.
Anyway, to reiterate the rules:
- Limit Edo Tensei to only 3 summonings per battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used per bijuu battle
- 15% of chakra should be the cost for each summoning and permanently lost for the duration that the Edo is active. So summoning the max of 3 zombies equals a loss of 45% of the summoner's total chakra pool. Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 15% for that summon.
- Regeneration Rule
- As long as Edo Tensei is being used, the user can only use defensive moves. And these defensive moves can't be used in the motions of an attack.
- Alts & NPCs are not allowed to become Edo Tensei. You also can't trade alts with a friend for Edo Tensei zombies. (If you can't trade sharingan eyes with friends anymore for the EMS you shouldn't be able to to trade Alts with friends to create mutual Edo Tensei.)
- 1:1 Ratio rule. You can only summon as many Edo Tensei as there are opponents. 3 is the max.
- Teacher-Student rule.
- They cannot host biju
Those are the rules so far, with the regeneration rule replacing the damage rule (I took liberty and did the switch, as there wasn't too much support for the damage rule). The only things seemingly left to debate, before this gets locked (Hopefully) are that Kage suggested that 15% is not enough and should be 25% (I disagree) and Uetto ponders if free roaming zombies should still subtract chakra from the summoner (I once again say no, as you're no longer the summoner and not attached to them anymore)
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Not that it matters but the bijuu WERE sealed back in the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki. Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails is all. They were still bound to the Mazo so Obito could reseal them if he needed to. It specifically says the bijuu were resealed into their hosts. I also agree 25% is too much and that if you give up your zombie then they can be on their merry way.
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Not that it matters but the bijuu WERE sealed back in the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki. Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails is all.
The Ten-Tails is like the Egyptian God Cards of Yu-Gi-Oh! It is not legitmate in the RP World of SL. It has no effect, and can't be used for RP.
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Those Edo zombies were used more like Paths than zombies, but fair point since technically they are still Edo Tensei zombies.
And I think the chakra cost should still be there. After all, if you let them go, while you don't need to exert your will to control them, I think you still have the chakra reduction cost. This is to prevent supposedly free-lance zombies coming back to help their original owners, thus allowing circumvention of the chakra pool rule.
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Not that it matters but the bijuu WERE sealed back in the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki. Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails is all.
The Ten-Tails is like the Egyptian God Cards of Yu-Gi-Oh! It is not legitmate in the RP World of SL. It has no effect, and can't be used for RP.
I was stating that, canon-wise, Edo Tensei cannot host the 10 tails. Madara stated you needed a living body to host the Juubi. The 10 tails is a hypocrisy on SL, if you are strong enough to get all 9 bijuu and the Gedo Mazo then you don't need the 10 tails, and probably just beat anyone who could fight you anyway.
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And I think the chakra cost should still be there. After all, if you let them go, while you don't need to exert your will to control them, I think you still have the chakra reduction cost. This is to prevent supposedly free-lance zombies coming back to help their original owners, thus allowing circumvention of the chakra pool rule.
I disagree. If a zombie releases itself or I let it go, I can no longer control, summon, or release the zombie. Why should I continue to pay a chakra tax? Mind you, I think it was stated that for this rule, that the chakra won't replenish until I un summon them. This means, that if any got away, my chakra would constantly be down 15%, potentially 25% depending on what people rule.
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And I think the chakra cost should still be there. After all, if you let them go, while you don't need to exert your will to control them, I think you still have the chakra reduction cost. This is to prevent supposedly free-lance zombies coming back to help their original owners, thus allowing circumvention of the chakra pool rule.
I disagree. If a zombie releases itself or I let it go, I can no longer control, summon, or release the zombie. Why should I continue to pay a chakra tax? Mind you, I think it was stated that for this rule, that the chakra won't replenish until I un summon them. This means, that if any got away, my chakra would constantly be down 15%, potentially 25% depending on what people rule.
Well then, I guess you better avoid letting them escape all willy nilly. If they intend on escaping, then you might want to either avoid summoning them or just tag them up. Just another one of those risks associated with the technique, which I thought were being added to this rule list in order to make it harder for the usage of Edo Tensei.
Regardless of the previous sentence, the point is that you brought the zombie back; whether or not it is under your control or not is beyond the point. It is still your zombie, your attachment, and the last thing we want is for people to loopholing around the chakra tax rule by just 'setting the zombie free' and being good friends with it.
Or picking up the phone and calling in a favor for that matter. :)
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Well my whole point is that they're not attached to the summoner in any way shape or form anymore. I can't summon, release, control, not even track the zombie once they have been released. Guess we'll have to wait on more opinions I suppose.
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Well my whole point is that they're not attached to the summoner in any way shape or form anymore. I can't summon, release, control, not even track the zombie once they have been released. Guess we'll have to wait on more opinions I suppose.
It's true it wouldn't make sense for you to still be drained after releasing the zombie, but the rules we are making don't have to make sense rp wise, they just need to satisfy the need to take an ax to this jutsu.
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I want to also add that zombies should not be able to do Chakra Transfer Technqiue. All you need is some zombie with flea summons or something and you are constantly gaining chakra from a bottomless source, it's half the benefits of Edo Tensei with no downsides. Just thought of this from the fight I am having.
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I want to also add that zombies should not be able to do Chakra Transfer Technqiue. All you need is some zombie with flea summons or something and you are constantly gaining chakra from a bottomless source, it's half the benefits of Edo Tensei with no downsides. Just thought of this from the fight I am having.
Seconds this... Nice observation.
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I want to also add that zombies should not be able to do Chakra Transfer Technqiue. All you need is some zombie with flea summons or something and you are constantly gaining chakra from a bottomless source, it's half the benefits of Edo Tensei with no downsides. Just thought of this from the fight I am having.
Here here, I third this! I don't know why I didn't think about that...
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Sounds fine to me.
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Double post, so I apologize, but I noticed this thread dying. Which means people likely don't care about it anymore/lack interest. So, to finally get this over with, I think most people would agree that Edo's can't transfer chakra over, so that should/will be added to the rules.
Since I'm the only one complaining about the chakra tax for free zombies, I guess I'll concede on that one. So long as it only hurts Edo users starting from this point on (So I don't get charged for Rares.) Similar to how Bocc got to keep his alt zombies, even after the alt rule, as the rule was not in place before hand, and I would like to not be punished now for a rule that wasn't there.
Thoughts? If we all agree and there is nothing more, I'll post the rules once more, add those two, and we can finally be done with this.
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Double post, so I apologize, but I noticed this thread dying. Which means people likely don't care about it anymore/lack interest. So, to finally get this over with, I think most people would agree that Edo's can't transfer chakra over, so that should/will be added to the rules.
Since I'm the only one complaining about the chakra tax for free zombies, I guess I'll concede on that one. So long as it only hurts Edo users starting from this point on (So I don't get charged for Rares.) Similar to how Bocc got to keep his alt zombies, even after the alt rule, as the rule was not in place before hand, and I would like to not be punished now for a rule that wasn't there.
Thoughts? If we all agree and there is nothing more, I'll post the rules once more, add those two, and we can finally be done with this.
Foshizzle.
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Oh yeah and this " Keito on the other hand weaved a few handseals before summoning a dozen Kage Bunshin to his side" Just nonchalantly summon a dozen shadow clones, why not 50? You have infinite chakra. There should probably be a limit on that.
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Agreed, I say maybe three and that might be pushing it.
Or perhaps none, seeing the abuse that Shadow Clones can do with an Edo.
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Well, we see the effects of shadow cloning with Edo Tensei. Madara did it, and the five kage were able to dispatch his clones (at a high price, maybe, but dispatched nonetheless) while they barely got the original close to being sealed.
Hashirama's clone apparently was pathetically weak if Madara's complaint is to be believed, so the cloning process when involving Edo's seems to have some sort of detriment to it, especially the more that are used.
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Well, we see the effects of shadow cloning with Edo Tensei. Madara did it, and the five kage were able to dispatch his clones (at a high price, maybe, but dispatched nonetheless) while they barely got the original close to being sealed.
Hashirama's clone apparently was pathetically weak if Madara's complaint is to be believed, so the cloning process when involving Edo's seems to have some sort of detriment to it, especially the more that are used.
Ok so something undefined might be happening. Also, didn't Onoki just vaporize all the clones with Jinton?
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I would still like to propose and push for the following.
- 25% of one's chakra per zombie summoned
- Concentration and control rule
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I still once again disagree >>
I think 15% is fine, considering we already have so many rules (Perhaps meet in the middle at 20?)
As for the concentration rule, I mean I guess it could get added, but 99% of people are going to treat their Edos as npcs, and just place a talisman in them to get total control. So I guess it can be added, but I don't think it will effect much.
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Well, we see the effects of shadow cloning with Edo Tensei. Madara did it, and the five kage were able to dispatch his clones (at a high price, maybe, but dispatched nonetheless) while they barely got the original close to being sealed.
Hashirama's clone apparently was pathetically weak if Madara's complaint is to be believed, so the cloning process when involving Edo's seems to have some sort of detriment to it, especially the more that are used.
Ok so something undefined might be happening. Also, didn't Onoki just vaporize all the clones with Jinton?
I reviewed that portion of the fight, and it was actually a massive ninjutsu-based counter-attack that took down the clones, including Dust release in ita combination attack used against Madara as a whole, but yes, the dust release is what actually took down the clones.. Madara had already shown that dust release can be absorbed with the Rinnegan, so I find it confusing that Madara's clones, as a group, were not able to stop the technique.
Maybe it is more a rinnegan limitation than an edo tensei one? I'm not entirely sure on this one.
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Well, we see the effects of shadow cloning with Edo Tensei. Madara did it, and the five kage were able to dispatch his clones (at a high price, maybe, but dispatched nonetheless) while they barely got the original close to being sealed.
Hashirama's clone apparently was pathetically weak if Madara's complaint is to be believed, so the cloning process when involving Edo's seems to have some sort of detriment to it, especially the more that are used.
Ok so something undefined might be happening. Also, didn't Onoki just vaporize all the clones with Jinton?
I reviewed that portion of the fight, and it was actually a massive ninjutsu-based counter-attack that took down the clones, including Dust release in ita combination attack used against Madara as a whole, but yes, the dust release is what actually took down the clones.. Madara had already shown that dust release can be absorbed with the Rinnegan, so I find it confusing that Madara's clones, as a group, were not able to stop the technique.
Maybe it is more a rinnegan limitation than an edo tensei one? I'm not entirely sure on this one.
Or since Madara has been shown to give not a single camel about defending himself he just let the clones get destroyed. He can always make more.
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So, clone limit for Edos, yes, no, maybe, so?
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So, clone limit for Edos, yes, no, maybe, so?
Yes, I'd honestly say no clones. It defeats the point of limiting the amount to three zombies if they could all even make one clone with infinite chakra.
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I still once again disagree >>
I think 15% is fine, considering we already have so many rules (Perhaps meet in the middle at 20?)
As for the concentration rule, I mean I guess it could get added, but 99% of people are going to treat their Edos as npcs, and just place a talisman in them to get total control. So I guess it can be added, but I don't think it will effect much.
I'm still pushing 25%, since there are so many perks to having just one indestructible and regenerative immortal with an unlimited supply of chakra. Any Edo with the Deva Path could destroy an entire village without any hindrance to themselves at all.
And the concentration rule covers that the owner of the original character can RP their revived character attempt to, or simply break free of Edo Tensei's original non-talisman-originated hold.
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Meh, I guess when losing clones doesn't cost you... I agree wit no clones, just to be on the safe side. 8)
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Meh, I guess when losing clones doesn't cost you... I agree wit no clones, just to be on the safe side. 8)
Yeah, Hazama tried to abuse the hell out of them too. *zombie makes a dozen clones, I destroy them all, zombies makes 13 clones* I'm sure it would have gone on from there.
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I'll agree on no clones. Eric, and Rakudo, any thoughts on Kage's suggestion? Since you guys are like the only other ones here. My opinion was already voiced.
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Making an updated list with everything we've discussed so far. Can someone tell me which teacher is connected with which student? This is what I understand so far:
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Current Student-Teacher Bonds:
Tsuyo ----- Trev
Kamui ----- Kyu Mizushima
Shinro ----- Ryūji?
_____ ----- Hazama
Former/Deceased Users:
Bocchiere (Replaced by Tsuyo)
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Trev, did you teach Hazama ET?
Also, I say that starting now, anyone who has had ET stolen from them or has died (quit) but then were revived will be unable to perform Edo Tensei. Basically once a person is "replaced" by another in the above teacher-student list, the former user will not be able to perform ET until they get themselves on the list again.
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No, Kamui taught Hazama, and had Kyu pirated it from him.
Tsuyo----Trev
Kyu-----Hazama (Incapacitated)
I believe Shinro says he just claimed it himself, or something. A long time ago, and Ryuji is gone. So Shinro, is open to teach.
Former members: Bocchiere, Kamui. Both had it pirated, thus cannot use Edo Tensei anymore. Though regarding this, I did have a note. Should we from this point onward, consider anyone that dies, as losing Edo Tensei?
I bring this up, as say I die in battle. With me dead, Tsuyo decides to teach someone, since a slot opened up. But, what if I get brought back to life? Would I still fall into that role, or start my own, etc. This is why I think once you die, starting now, even if you get brought back, you forget Edo Tensei. So, kinda what Zojin was getting at, I think.
As for what has be discussed, these are the listed rules, once more.
- Limit Edo Tensei to only 3 summonings per battle
- Only one Edo Summoning can be used per bijuu battle
- 15% of chakra should be the cost for each summoning and permanently lost for the duration that the Edo is active. So summoning the max of 3 zombies equals a loss of 45% of the summoner's total chakra pool. Only when an Edo is sealed or un-summoned is when the user can start recovering the lost 15% for that summon.
- Regeneration Rule
- As long as Edo Tensei is being used, the user can only use defensive moves. And these defensive moves can't be used in the motions of an attack.
- Alts & NPCs are not allowed to become Edo Tensei. You also can't trade alts with a friend for Edo Tensei zombies. (If you can't trade sharingan eyes with friends anymore for the EMS you shouldn't be able to to trade Alts with friends to create mutual Edo Tensei.)
- 1:1 Ratio rule. You can only summon as many Edo Tensei as there are opponents. 3 is the max.
- Teacher-Student rule.
- They cannot host biju
Things being debated are, Should Edos be allowed to use Shadow Clones, Edos shouldn't be allowed to use the Chakra Transfer Technique, whether released Edos should still subtract chakra from the summoner, and Kage suggest a control rule and making the summoning fee 25%.
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ET cannot perform Kage Bunshin (or other "solid" clone technique) and Splitting Technique. They also cannot use techniques which transfers their chakra to another.
I think meeting in the middle at 20% is fair enough. With a total of 3 active zombies, the user is down to 40% of their life force from the start.
Writing up the rules now.
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Alright guys, lets just get this done. What do you think so far? I'm still compiling all the "combat" rules, though I think listed all of the "non-combat" rules.
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,7768.0.html
Also, lets make this the official Edo Tensei Discussion Thread or something instead of having people post in the thread I just made.
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I'm fine with all of that. Also, thanks for listing everything, really appreciate it! Since I'm fine, if nobody else has any other suggestions and they agree this is fine, I think we can finally be done.
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I'm fine with all of that. Also, thanks for listing everything, really appreciate it! Since I'm fine, if nobody else has any other suggestions and they agree this is fine, I think we can finally be done.
And then we can all go outside and play hopscotch!
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I would rather push for 25%, but as someone who has never used a revival technique like that before, I am standing down on further wing clipping. My favorite class was destroyed in a different game due to whiners.
So I agree with 20%, and totally okay with the notations that Kage made.
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Okay so, Zojin. Kamui no longer has le Edo Tensei. And me and Hazama were tied in the teacher/student rule.
However some weird things have been coming to me lately, such as..Zekkō Zō saying that Kamui told him that he would take Hazama's place. He says that he has a scroll...though I don't know from where. Rakudo also stated that he is waiting until he can human path Hazama's remains to actually HAVE the Edo Tensei (this is after killing Hazama in their Bijuu match).
So uh....yeah. I have no idea what's going on with all of that.
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Okay so, Zojin. Kamui no longer has le Edo Tensei. And me and Hazama were tied in the teacher/student rule.
However some weird things have been coming to me lately, such as..Zekkō Zō saying that Kamui told him that he would take Hazama's place. He says that he has a scroll...though I don't know from where. Rakudo also stated that he is waiting until he can human path Hazama's remains to actually HAVE the Edo Tensei (this is after killing Hazama in their Bijuu match).
So uh....yeah. I have no idea what's going on with all of that.
Hazama is not dead, he is an immortal Jashinist, there for there is no open spot in the Edo Tensei. I have him sealed away which will keep him alive until I am able to Human Path him and get the knowledge for myself. Zo's claim is void.
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http://gyazo.com/c792027252d9ebc4e8d33b231ff2a956 (http://gyazo.com/c792027252d9ebc4e8d33b231ff2a956)
The above post was sent to myself upon Hazama's loss to Rakudo.
Thus my character entered said region underground and looted the area of all possessions not on Hazama's person; this would include the edo scroll.
As for how Rakudo's filler technique mimics Edo Tensei's maneuvers without much restriction is beyond me though upon my knowledge the claim to summon forth any object Hazama has touched is void in my eyes. I had welcomed Rakudo to come to Otogakure to successfully claim the items though now would be too late. As per Edo Tensei I do not claim my character knows the jutsu though after bouncing around known members through pms they each have told me that I have replaced Hazama within the Teacher/Student system in which Kyu was the teacher.
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http://gyazo.com/c792027252d9ebc4e8d33b231ff2a956 (http://gyazo.com/c792027252d9ebc4e8d33b231ff2a956)
The above post was sent to myself upon Hazama's loss to Rakudo.
Thus my character entered said region underground and looted the area of all possessions not on Hazama's person; this would include the edo scroll.
As for how Rakudo's filler technique mimics Edo Tensei's maneuvers without much restriction is beyond me though upon my knowledge the claim to summon forth any object Hazama has touched is void in my eyes. I had welcomed Rakudo to come to Otogakure to successfully claim the items though now would be too late. As per Edo Tensei I do not claim my character knows the jutsu though after bouncing around known members through pms they each have told me that I have replaced Hazama within the Teacher/Student system in which Kyu was the teacher.
Oh so he OOC'ly gave you his things after I chopped him up and sealed him away? Thank you for providing evidence that your own claim is void. If they said you had Edo Tensei then they forgot how the rules work.
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My character had been informed of his Kage's death prior to looting the area which is when I had constantly told you, you may retrieve the items from Otogakure if you please. Though upon the news he visited the area and looted it thus the opportunity had been lost.
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My character had been informed of his Kage's death prior to looting the area which is when I had constantly told you, you may retrieve the items from Otogakure if you please. Though upon the news he visited the area and looted it thus the opportunity had been lost.
I posted minutes after the fight taking his things, and I stopped claiming anything but his Edo Tensei zombies. I made the clone perform Edo Tensei and then sealed the zombies away. You can have the Sage Tools and the rest. As long as Hazama is alive and in no position to give you Edo Tensei you cannot have it though.
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As per Edo Tensei I do not claim my character knows the jutsu
Calm down there buddy.
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As per Edo Tensei I do not claim my character knows the jutsu
Calm down there buddy.
You're saying I don't have the items which I am talking about. I'm about to make a topic about this Evil Releasing nonsense you plan though.
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I question both the Evil releasing technique and Body Recreation, but who cares what I question.
Anyway, none of you have Edo yet, so lets move on. Either agree to the rules, or bring some other to this psuedo court's attention.
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I question both the Evil releasing technique and Body Recreation, but who cares what I question.
Anyway, none of you have Edo yet, so lets move on. Either agree to the rules, or bring some other to this psuedo court's attention.
We are good on Evil Releasing. Since Hazama can't use Senjutsu at all he can't apply the right kind of mark like the Curse Seal of Heaven to anyone. So he can't be brought back that way.
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Nobody can apply those seals to anyone, unless they pirated dna from a Senninka user, and I'm pretty sure I'm the only one >>
That is for a different thread however, and off topic. So, as I previously said, agree to the rules, propose more, or do nothing and open a different thread :cool:
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man we got off topic. Can't think of any other rules this very second.
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Here's something I forgot to bring up.
What if a zone fight occurs and you use Edo Tensei however both parties agrees that the entire scenario is OCC?
Would the rules still apply here or not?
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The rules still apply, unless your opponent is foolish enough to allow you to ignore the rules.
Obviously if you're just having a fun little spar, and your opponent doesn't care, go for it. Really up to who you're fighting. These rules are to make Edo easier to fight and harder to use, so it's to their benefit to not let you, but like I said, up to them.
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The rules still apply, unless your opponent is foolish enough to allow you to ignore the rules.
Obviously if you're just having a fun little spar, and your opponent doesn't care, go for it. Really up to who you're fighting. These rules are to make Edo easier to fight and harder to use, so it's to their benefit to not let you, but like I said, up to them.
Kamui is talking about his bijuu fight with Kirk, not a normal OOC spar. As I was told by Tsuyo, Kamui had Grand Master Uchiha and Sage of 2 Paths when he was slain and then Edo Tensei'd. This was before we learned you need Uchiha and Senju for Rinnegan. After that he lost his Rinnegan and would have had just Sharingan. Since he was in the position to get the correct resets he would have had to, but could not as he is an Edo Tensei. So as an Edo Tensei Kamui should be able to have Sharingan OR Wood Style OR Rinnegan if he steals someone else's eyes. Since when you want to add a KG to a zombie you have to subtract one. Kirk would arguably be in a position to void the fight if Kamui is using more than one.
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Valid point. I think that is posted somewhere way back. Though, I'm a little lenient. Since he had those resets, before Senju was required, I'd say IC, Kamui has GM Uchiha, and I'd allow him the Deva and Naraka path as well. I'd also say he is a Senju (Retroposting if you will) but no Mokuton.
If we can make an exception for hyouton users, why not Kamui? Beyond that though, I cannot be any lenient and this is my opinion alone.
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Valid point. I think that is posted somewhere way back. Though, I'm a little lenient. Since he had those resets, before Senju was required, I'd say IC, Kamui has GM Uchiha, and I'd allow him the Deva and Naraka path as well. I'd also say he is a Senju (Retroposting if you will) but no Mokuton.
If we can make an exception for hyouton users, why not Kamui? Beyond that though, I cannot be any lenient and this is my opinion alone.
It's not really the same as someone just resetting for Ice or Byakugan. I think me an Luka are like the only ones that rule benefits. Kamui got killed, and he is now getting to rp as an indestructible Edo Tensei with infinite chakra. I think that should weigh out the ability to not gain more KG. That's just me though.
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What does leveling, in-game bloodlines have to do with rp again? :-x
If Rakudo got killed and I Edo Tensei'd him, does that mean that he doesn't have Bakuton because there isn't such in-game bloodline? Is that how you guys want to play this game?
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What does leveling, in-game bloodlines have to do with rp again? :-x
If Rakudo got killed and I Edo Tensei'd him, does that mean that he doesn't have Bakuton because there isn't such in-game bloodline? Is that how you guys want to play this game?
Like it or not that is actually how a vast majority of people want to play this game, yes.
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I thought this topic was about Edo Tensei? Am I in the wrong place? :oops:
Any reason why a Edo Tensei zombie can't use Splitting Technique?
I saw it happen with the Second Tsuchikage but his powers were greatly reduced and he couldn't even defend himself against higher-classes of jutsus much less a Rasengan. (Which almost everyone on SL has these days)
Also from the recent chapters, I was thinking instead of twenty percent, I was more for twenty-five since that was the original costs to maintain it.
For Bunshins well...I only limit myself to one or two at the most in a IC fight or event so I don't see why we just put a limit of only one bunshin per battle and they have to share the posting order respectively. (Attack, Defensive and Supplementary)
Example;Zojin tosses a few shruikens my way and uses Kage Shuriken no Jutsu to multiply them into hundreds of projectiles, while I on the other hand form the necessary seal to make a Kage Bunshin which would serve as a Human Shield while the original makes it escape from the onslaught.
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I think Zojin just added Splitting Technique to the list on her own, I don't have a problem with that one. Even with one bunshin like that though someone could still go "I make a bunshin and it does Chibaku Tensei. Next turn I do my own Chibaku Tensei." With the infinite chakra I think it's unneeded.
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Clones are indeed unnecessary. Also, I have no problem with the splitting technique, but I think the tax rate should remain 20%
:cry: So close to getting this closed, close, but no cigar.
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I think Zojin just added Splitting Technique to the list on her own, I don't have a problem with that one. Even with one bunshin like that though someone could still go "I make a bunshin and it does Chibaku Tensei. Next turn I do my own Chibaku Tensei." With the infinite chakra I think it's unneeded.
As much as I like to go about it with using Bunshins to use Six Paths techniques well it wouldn't be technically possible considering it's a Deva Path technique and the original would have to be the one to use it.
The only way this possible if by using the Six Paths Technique on individual bodies so they have have each access to a specific path.
The only problem with it is that it would require a lot of chakra and concretion to maintain them.
Not to mention you would need the Gedo Mazo's chakras receivers to even maintain them over such vast distances.
I recall Nagato was at the point of being malnourished and weakened that he couldn't walk on his own due to using the Six Paths Technique with the Gedo Mazo's chakras receivers.
Clones are indeed unnecessary. Also, I have no problem with the splitting technique, but I think the tax rate should remain 20%
:cry: So close to getting this closed, close, but no cigar.
If the chakra taxing rate is at twenty percent well...the max limit that any user could make when it comes to Edo Tensei is Four zombies.
Some of the users on the site maintain more then this however so...it's up to guys to discuss that.
Because I believe that anymore then that and you would be out of chakras which would lead to an untimely death. (20+20+20+20+20=100)
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The limit is three zombies, we know 20x3 is not 100. Nagato was shriveled and such from him using the Gedo Mazo's giant soul eating dragons to kill all those rain ninja and ROOT ANBU, not from the 6 Paths Technique. What are you talking about though? If you made a shadow clone you could both go use Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei.
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Part of the reason that the Splitting Technique was probably considered out of the picture was the nature of SL zone fights. I'm sure at least three people RP themselves stronger than the Kage in the series.
Other than that, I think the splitting technique had been decided against because it had been easier to just exclude it along with the other varients of cloning, rather than have exceptions pop up here and there. Besides, who wants a zombie splitting on them the second someone wants to seal 'em?
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The limit is three zombies, we know 20x3 is not 100. Nagato was shriveled and such from him using the Gedo Mazo's giant soul eating dragons to kill all those rain ninja and ROOT ANBU, not from the 6 Paths Technique. What are you talking about though? If you made a shadow clone you could both go use Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei.
I forgot to mention that incident but due to "that" along with making use of the Six Paths of Pain Technique, well... he became emaciated and weakened to the point that it was actually slowly killing him to use any technique associated with the Rinnegan. (I won't mention how his legs got crippled because everyone knows how by now.)
The reason I said why you can't use Rinnegan techniques with Bunshins is because the execution of the techniques are that powerful and it would require alot of chakra to prepare so certainly, that would be out of a bunshin's league. (Think Deva Path; Chibaku Tensei or Asura Path)
I really think it's highly illogical to use Kage Bunshin or any Tajuu Bunshin when you can't even divide by infinity.
So I have no problem with either limiting it or forbidding it entirely.
Part of the reason that the Splitting Technique was probably considered out of the picture was the nature of SL zone fights. I'm sure at least three people RP themselves stronger than the Kage in the series.
Other than that, I think the splitting technique had been decided against because it had been easier to just exclude it along with the other variants of cloning, rather than have exceptions pop up here and there. Besides, who wants a zombie splitting on them the second someone wants to seal 'em?
Well according to the rules no Bunshin of any solid form is allowed but what about those that don't have a solid form? Such as Mizu Bunshin, they disperse into water/mist after being attacked and are only limited to certain Suiton Techniques.
Heck! Might as well add Kawarimi no Jutsu to the list since a zombie has infinite chakra and could easily spam it in the right situation.
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Mizu bunshin is included, as that is a physical clone. The non-physical clone is the acad level, illusionary clone technique that has no physical substance to it. The same one Sakura used during the Chunin Exams.
And Substitution Technique hasn't been added to the list since while it can be spammed (and would be frowned upon) the line has to be drawn at some point. While it could be spammed every single attack, even an ordinary shinobi could spam that (literally, it's been done before) and still technically be legit.
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Nagato had his legs damaged by Hanzo and the Dragons emaciated him, the 6 Paths didn't do anything. He literally shriveled up as soon as he used the soul eating dragons, if the Rinnegan was killing him he would have been dead. He looked the same when he met Naruto as he did after massacring all those ninja with the Mazo. Madara made, what was it, 25 Moku bunshins? I think it was like 5 for each Kage, and had them all do Susano'o. Are you suggesting that Madara's chakra pool was large enough to divide that many times and then spam Susano'o?
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Nagato had his legs damaged by Hanzo and the Dragons emaciated him, the 6 Paths didn't do anything. He literally shriveled up as soon as he used the soul eating dragons, if the Rinnegan was killing him he would have been dead. He looked the same when he met Naruto as he did after massacring all those ninja with the Mazo. Madara made, what was it, 25 Moku bunshins? I think it was like 5 for each Kage, and had them all do Susano'o. Are you suggesting that Madara's chakra pool was large enough to divide that many times and then spam Susano'o?
In his fit of rage over Yahiko's sacrifice, Nagato made use of the Gedo Mazo that was given to him by Obito and summoned those Dragon-like entities.
The chakra rods that protruded from the Mazo's body accounted for his emaciation, he just got crippled from an attack by Hanzo. :roll:
I recall that the Rinnegan's techniques are quite chakra taxing since the usage of Chibaku Tensei cause some extreme stress to Nagato and the same applied to his grand-scale Shinra Tensei.
It's common knowledge that if you completely run out of chakra, you basically fall over and just die.
Madara is irreverent. Why? Because the guy is an immortal zombie at the moment and not mention he had a large enough chakra pool to take on Hashirama with his Susano'o-clad Kyuubi when he was alive (Due to the power-up given by Izuna).
So far, I review everything and came to a conclusion that I will abide by the non-combatant and combat rules regarding Edo Tensei.
Anyone else have any quarrel with the new rules?
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Nope, I agree to the new set of rules in place.
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Nagato had his legs damaged by Hanzo and the Dragons emaciated him, the 6 Paths didn't do anything. He literally shriveled up as soon as he used the soul eating dragons, if the Rinnegan was killing him he would have been dead. He looked the same when he met Naruto as he did after massacring all those ninja with the Mazo. Madara made, what was it, 25 Moku bunshins? I think it was like 5 for each Kage, and had them all do Susano'o. Are you suggesting that Madara's chakra pool was large enough to divide that many times and then spam Susano'o?
In his fit of rage over Yahiko's sacrifice, Nagato made use of the Gedo Mazo that was given to him by Obito and summoned those Dragon-like entities.
The chakra rods that protruded from the Mazo's body accounted for his emaciation, he just got crippled from an attack by Hanzo. :roll:
I recall that the Rinnegan's techniques are quite chakra taxing since the usage of Chibaku Tensei cause some extreme stress to Nagato and the same applied to his grand-scale Shinra Tensei.
It's common knowledge that if you completely run out of chakra, you basically fall over and just die.
Madara is irreverent. Why? Because the guy is an immortal zombie at the moment and not mention he had a large enough chakra pool to take on Hashirama with his Susano'o-clad Kyuubi when he was alive (Due to the power-up given by Izuna).
So far, I review everything and came to a conclusion that I will abide by the non-combatant and combat rules regarding Edo Tensei.
Anyone else have any quarrel with the new rules?
I don't know why you just repeated what I said and added an eye roll at the end of it but ok. I'm thinking the fact that the Grand Shinra Tensei was big enough to knock over and village and that Chibaku Tensei makes a small planetoid is why they take a lot of chakra, because they are massive, not because they are Rinnegan techniques. The Asura Path laser that bowls over a city block probably takes a lot too, but because it's large. If all of the Rinnegan techniques are chakra taxing at any level then being an Uzumaki must give you bijuu levels of chakra.
You mentioned not being able to divide infinite chakra by anything which is why I asked if you thought Madara just had enough chakra normally to do that. You argue strangely sir. Anyway, I think we are set.
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Zekkō Zō has replaced Shinro as an Edo Tensei summoner as Pete gave up his position to the mentioned.
If anyone has questions or doubts say it here or PM Zekkō Zō.
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Why did Kyu replace Hazama is what I want to know.
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I didn't replace Hazama, I replaced Kamui and Hazama is dead. This leaves me as the teacher and no one as my student currently.
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Well in a technical sense, Hazama is alive for like another 2, maybe 3 weeks. >>
Unless Rakudo finished him off somewhere I didn't see.
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Well in a technical sense, Hazama is alive for like another 2, maybe 3 weeks. >>
Unless Rakudo finished him off somewhere I didn't see.
That's generous >.> Considering I believe he was chopped up into tiny pieces (if I remember correctly) and therefore his body can't even eat itself away to delay starvation....I believe Hazama is in fact dead at this point >.> Considering it only takes about a week to starve to death.
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So how does this work? If he dies and I revive him with Body Recreation but you taught it to someone else he can't use it? If the spot is open does he go back into it till he dies again?
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- A former user who either had ET stolen from them or quit and had their position in the "Student-Teacher" list replaced can no longer perform ET until they get themselves onto the above list again.
Taken from Zojins newly written up rules. So essentially, yes...if I teach someone the technique before you pirate it from Hazama then the method you described wouldn't work as Hazama would not be allowed to use the technique himself anymore.
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Oh I got one, I'll stick his bits with tiny chakra receivers and throw him in the King of Hell to restore his body as a path of pain.
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Who did Hazama learn Edo Tensei from?
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Kamui taught Kyu and Hazama, as he tried to debate/ or didn't understand the teacher-student rule.
So when we told him that wasn't allowed, he didn't feel like being mean and taking it from one of them. Thus, officially he taught Hazama and pretty much retconned and had Kyu pirate it.
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That makes more sense. If that's the case, then as of now Hazama's position in the teacher student chain is in limbo as he is not a playable character but is also not "dead".
At this point Rakudo needs to figure out a way to keep Hazama alive since Jashinists can die from malnutrition (Haz has been dead for nearly a month-ish now I believe) or Rakudo can somehow extract the information.
Also, the ruling about the splitting technique has been removed since many of you have made valid points of why it should be allowed.
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Zekkō Zō has replaced Shinro as an Edo Tensei summoner as Pete gave up his position to the mentioned.
If anyone has questions or doubts say it here or PM Zekkō Zō.
I take a break from one month to find this Zekko person taking my place?
Seriously? I'm going to void Zekko from using Edo Tensei, and resume using that ninpou myself. I never "gave" up my position as an user.
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Zekkō Zō has replaced Shinro as an Edo Tensei summoner as Pete gave up his position to the mentioned.
If anyone has questions or doubts say it here or PM Zekkō Zō.
I take a break from one month to find this Zekko person taking my place?
Seriously? I'm going to void Zekko from using Edo Tensei, and resume using that ninpou myself. I never "gave" up my position as an user.
Lol, oh no Zo.
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Oh I got one, I'll stick his bits with tiny chakra receivers and throw him in the King of Hell to restore his body as a path of pain.
I assume you have access to the Six Paths then?
Then it could work if you do.
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Oh I got one, I'll stick his bits with tiny chakra receivers and throw him in the King of Hell to restore his body as a path of pain.
I assume you have access to the Six Paths then?
Then it could work if you do.
I've got the perquisite Rinnegan abilities to make a path, yeah.
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@Rakudo: I wonder if you could find a way to create exploding zombies via edo tensei.
@Zojin: Remove Zekkō Zō from the Edo Tensei user list, and put me back. I never taught him anything nor gave up my position as an Edo Tensei user.
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Oh I got one, I'll stick his bits with tiny chakra receivers and throw him in the King of Hell to restore his body as a path of pain.
I assume you have access to the Six Paths then?
Then it could work if you do.
I've got the perquisite Rinnegan abilities to make a path, yeah.
Let me re-phrase it, do have access to every single ability of the Rinnegan?
I mean it's called Six Paths for a reason. ^^
If so then yes, you can do it legitmentally without any complaints from either side.
Zekkō Zō has replaced Shinro as an Edo Tensei summoner as Pete gave up his position to the mentioned.
If anyone has questions or doubts say it here or PM Zekkō Zō.
I take a break from one month to find this Zekko person taking my place?
Seriously? I'm going to void Zekko from using Edo Tensei, and resume using that ninpou myself. I never "gave" up my position as an user.
This information is new to me, however I am speaking to on the matter in Private Mails.
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Why would you need all 6 resets to use it? It's called 6 Paths of Pain because that is Nagato's fetish by the way. >> You get the chakra receivers with the very first reset, you'd only be able to make a Deva Path of course.
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Why would you need all 6 resets to use it? It's called 6 Paths of Pain because that is Nagato's fetish by the way. >> You get the chakra receivers with the very first reset, you'd only be able to make a Deva Path of course.
Because, that technique to make the Six Paths is deprive from the Outer Path (7th Path).
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Six_Paths_of_Pain (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Six_Paths_of_Pain)
Also I am not going by Shinobi Legends's in-game techs but rather how you would achieve it in RP.
And for that you actually need all Six resets last I checked.
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Ok and there is no 7th reset for Rinnegan. You get the Naraka Path with two and that would let you use the King of Hell with Samsara then. So I should still have it. It also says "The Outer Path also grants the user the ability to channel chakra into the black rods that originate from their body" which, again, I can do with the first reset, that Kokushinto attack.
@ Shinro: If I combined Bakuton chakra with some fuinjutsu or something you could probably have a seal to blow your zombies up over and over. I could make you some if you let me use Edo Tensei. Now that there is a spot open with Zo gone. :cool:
@ Kamui's Edit: That seems kinda ass backwards if I do say so myself. I need to get the resets in game to use them in rp but I don't get to use this jutsu that I get in game till I can learn it in rp? What?
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Ok and there is no 7th reset for Rinnegan. You get the Naraka Path with two and that would let you use the King of Hell with Samsara then. So I should still have it. It also says "The Outer Path also grants the user the ability to channel chakra into the black rods that originate from their body" which, again, I can do with the first reset, that Kokushinto attack.
I like your logic, I get two resets and now I can use the Outer Path to make the Six Paths. XP
You didn't read what I actually said, huh? :roll:
I wasn't going by the in-game techs, but rather what is gained in RP.
I assume from reading my materials and information, that what comes after mastery of the Human Path (6th Path) is eventually the Gedo (7th Path).
Ok and there is no 7th reset for Rinnegan. You get the Naraka Path with two and that would let you use the King of Hell with Samsara then. So I should still have it. It also says "The Outer Path also grants the user the ability to channel chakra into the black rods that originate from their body" which, again, I can do with the first reset, that Kokushinto attack.
You said it yourself, now who has it backwards. ^^
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Ok and there is no 7th reset for Rinnegan. You get the Naraka Path with two and that would let you use the King of Hell with Samsara then. So I should still have it. It also says "The Outer Path also grants the user the ability to channel chakra into the black rods that originate from their body" which, again, I can do with the first reset, that Kokushinto attack.
I like your logic, I get two resets and now I can use the Outer Path to make the Six Paths. XP
You didn't read what I actually said, huh? :roll:
I wasn't going by the in-game techs, but rather what is gained in RP.
I assume from reading my materials and information, that what comes after mastery of the Human Path (6th Path) is eventually the Gedo (7th Path).
No with 2 resets you could use the Outer Path to make 2 Paths. I'm not saying you could make all 6 before 6 resets.
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Ok and there is no 7th reset for Rinnegan. You get the Naraka Path with two and that would let you use the King of Hell with Samsara then. So I should still have it. It also says "The Outer Path also grants the user the ability to channel chakra into the black rods that originate from their body" which, again, I can do with the first reset, that Kokushinto attack.
I like your logic, I get two resets and now I can use the Outer Path to make the Six Paths. XP
You didn't read what I actually said, huh? :roll:
I wasn't going by the in-game techs, but rather what is gained in RP.
I assume from reading my materials and information, that what comes after mastery of the Human Path (6th Path) is eventually the Gedo (7th Path).
No with 2 resets you could use the Outer Path to make 2 Paths. I'm not saying you could make all 6 before 6 resets.
That's what I'm trying to say but I get rebuttal every time. :roll:
I prefer it if you have maxed out the Rinnegan before attempting to do so but that's just me.
It's bad enough that the in-game techniques for Rinnegan are broken as it is.
It's mainly the reason why everyone merely opts for Sennin Modo.
But I digress, you *can* do it but if you're going by the resets, then you'll need all six.
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Kamui every time we discuss something on the forum nothing you say makes sense. You researched what exactly? Is there an SL version of the manga? Because their are no resets in Naruto, Obito popped a Rinnegan in his head and could use all 6 Paths, specifically the Outer Path which he spammed. The SL progression of the Rinnegan isn't even correct. The only connection between Human and Outer Path is that 6 comes before 7 but the Human Path isn't even actually the 6 path.
壱 (1) - Deva Path.
弐 (2) - Asura Path.
参 (3) - Human Path.
四 (4) - Animal Path.
五 (5) - Preta Path.
六 (6) - Naraka Path.
This actually lends credence to your theory since the Naraka Path is the 6th Path and it is the only one with a relationship to the Outer Path. If we want to follow that instead that is fine with me since I'll have my Human Path.
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Kamui every time we discuss something on the forum, everything I say makes sense. You researched what exactly? Is there an SL version of the manga? Because their are no resets in Naruto, Obito popped a Rinnegan in his head and could use all 6 Paths, specifically the Outer Path which he spammed. The SL progression of the Rinnegan isn't even correct. The only connection between Human and Outer Path is that 6 comes before 7 but the Human Path isn't even actually the 6 path.
壱 (1) - Deva Path.
弐 (2) - Asura Path.
参 (3) - Human Path.
四 (4) - Animal Path.
五 (5) - Preta Path.
六 (6) - Naraka Path.
This actually lends credence to your theory since the Naraka Path is the 6th Path and it is the only one with a relationship to the Outer Path. If we want to follow that instead that is fine with me since I'll have my Human Path.
Fixed it for you.
It's like I said before and I'll re-phrase myself, I like your logic of being right on everything all of the time. ^^
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@Zojin: Remove Zekkō Zō from the Edo Tensei user list, and put me back. I never taught him anything nor gave up my position as an Edo Tensei user.
Good thing I announced the change here. I figured something was a little off.
You would want to have a little chat with him then. He PM'ed me saying that you allowed him to replace you as an Edo Tensei user. I didn't believe him and asked for proof before I make any changes to the list. He provided me with this:
---Original Message from Zekkō Zō(2013-07-18 08:27:51)---
Alright then the day has come where you can slap me onto the users. Quality Assured Grade A Proof: http://gyazo.com/d3dced69921fa49852941859472ce905
So it's either he lied or this conversation screenshot was sent to me out of context. Though if he lied about being able to replace you then I'll put you back on the list.
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Yes, curse my habit of providing evidence to back up my arguments. Here allow me to edit my response to fit to your standards.
I think you can makes Paths of Pain with the first reset. I have research and evidence to support this claim but will not reveal any of it as my opinion is enough. Smart-ass remark. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
@ Zojin: He could have always just changed the message to say whatever he wanted.
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@Rakudo: I'd like to think that people on SL wouldn't go as far as to lie (forge a conversation) about something like this just to gain access to a silly technique. But I guess I give everyone the benefit of the doubt at first.
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@Rakudo: I'd like to think that people on SL wouldn't go as far as to lie (forge a conversation) about something like this just to gain access to a silly technique. But I guess I give everyone the benefit of the doubt at first.
This is all new to me and I am still waiting on Zo to get on so I can get some more clarification.
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I never wrote that. :shock:
The last thing I remember saying to him was that I don't care about his goals of making Otogakure stronger through Edo Tensei. I told him "no" many times before taking my break.
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I never wrote that. :shock:
The last thing I remember saying to him was that I don't care about his goals of making Otogakure stronger through Edo Tensei. I told him "no" many times before taking my break.
Considering Zo also "somehow" claimed to get Tommi's DNA and revive him,when Tommi wasn't even dead, leads me to believe he isn't always honest.
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I never wrote that. :shock:
The last thing I remember saying to him was that I don't care about his goals of making Otogakure stronger through Edo Tensei. I told him "no" many times before taking my break.
Whelp, that's that then. I'll remove him as a user.
@Kamui: If you could let me know what Zekko replies to you about this situation that would be great. I figure since you already PM'ed him regarding the issue I shouldn't bombard him with another interrogation.
I should make a "blacklist" of all the people who either try to lie or abuse loopholes to learn this jutsu lol.
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Considering Zo also "somehow" claimed to get Tommi's DNA and revive him,when Tommi wasn't even dead, leads me to believe he isn't always honest.
Actually that information was a startling revelation since if it is indeed true then it could also mean some changes for the users of Hiraishin.
@Zojin, I will do but for now I am going to clean up around my house but I will periodically log-on to check.
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I never wrote that. :shock:
The last thing I remember saying to him was that I don't care about his goals of making Otogakure stronger through Edo Tensei. I told him "no" many times before taking my break.
Considering Zo also "somehow" claimed to get Tommi's DNA and revive him,when Tommi wasn't even dead, leads me to believe he isn't always honest.
Lulz. Tommi himself, even stated (http://narutoprofile.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:9863) that he didn't want his charcter involved in any of this Shinobi Legends affair.
I have to say he is kinda smart in a dick way. "This one guy (whose perma-banned) killed this other guy (who doesn't play this game anymore) and I'm reviving him now."
@ Kamui: It isn't.
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Now this is Quality Assured Grade A Proof:
http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy323/Shinobilegends/proof_zpsec8e19a2.png
On July 18, two days after taking my break, Mariko tried to tell me email that Zekkō tried to claim Edo Tensei by replacing me. As you can see, I didn't gave up my position. I never taught him anything, and I think he's delusional to assume that I was going to teach him Edo Tensei.
Note that the blank parts are words that are too private to share.
@Zojin: Also, the blacklist idea sounds great. Make sure to add Zekkō.
@Kamui: I messaged Zekkō, he read my message, and refused to message back. Good luck talking to him.
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Alright first thing first as for Tomi Uematsu I was already told I was stepping into unknown territory with him but decided to still go through with it. I don't care if I lost my claim for him as if he truly doesn't wish his character to be bothered I'm all good with that but for me to be called out after having talked with you over the matter before you left and for you to return stating my claim was a lie I just don't understand. I volleyed back and forth through edo users after Hazama's death to find a legitimate claim to simply replace him but since your leave and your message to me I found such. Not sure how I could be seen in the wrong.
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You forged that message, you little liar. I told you so many times to find another way to "restore" Otogakure because I'm never teaching or giving anyone Edo Tensei. You just like claiming techniques from people that leave or take long breaks. I told you that Shinro, my rp char, will be sleeping in Ryūgū-jō throughout my break. I erased my account so I won't be tempted to login. But that doesn't give you the right to forge a message and claim something that's not yours.
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Yes because If I were the lair you all claim me to be and forge shinobi mail in ways out of my own possibility that I would be commenting to defend my statement. Grow the fuck up a little here I could give a shit less or not to mess with shinobi mail for a simple technique. I took advantage of the timing that Hazama had died losing his spot as an Edo user and you were leaving to do whatever you wish for you godly character to do. Its all good I have nothing to hide here as claiming it legit-ly was what I sought out to do here.
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And now you're cursing. Great. Now it's obvious that you're lying. I assume you created Academy Student Shinro, and just messaged yourself to create such forgery after I told you "no."
You're a liar, and you've been caught. Never have I imagined for someone besides Bocchiere to lie about their legitimacy to use a technique. You're no longer an Edo Tensei user, and your usage of this technique will hence forth be voided.
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So just putting your words in my mouth kinda proves you right? And if I deny such then you will just continue to think of your own ways and accuse me of using another method? You aren't that special to me Pete, not sorry if this is the first time you've had to acknowledge it.
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And now you're cursing. Great. Now it's obvious that you're lying. I assume you created Academy Student Shinro, and just messaged yourself to create such forgery after I told you "no."
You're a liar, and you've been caught. Never have I imagined for someone besides Bocchiere to lie about their legitimacy to use a technique. You're no longer an Edo Tensei user, and your usage of this technique will hence forth be voided.
Zayummmm. :shock:
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My choice of words doesn't relate to how I would be guilty more so relate to my reaction toward the bullshit you seem to be posting. I can go ahead and snapshot all my convos with your wife Mariko then show you the date and time I messaged your Academy Student Shinro alt before you finally restored your Shinro account. Hell! I can ask Kamui or any mod if they had been requested for the account restoration petition on your Shinro account because you made an Academy Student account to talk to me over the terms of Edo Tensei.
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Academy Student Shinro was the account I created two days after I deleted my original account. I created that account because on the 18th of July, Mariko told me that you wanted to claim Edo Tensei. After telling you "no" so many times, I erased the account and resume my break from SL.
Go ahead, and ask Mariko or Kamui. I want you to. I want to see if there is any possible way for Kamui to check all the messages on Academy Student Shinro that's under Lightning13@outlook.com. I want everyone to see how you were sobbing like a puppy after I told you that I didn't care about your goals of restoring Otogakure and denying you of using Edo Tensei.
You're just a pseudo-Bocchiere that has been caught. As I said, from now on, your Edo Tensei usage is now voided. I'm done talking about this.
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Man everything exciting happens when I leave. Though I have to say, just thinking about it objectively, Zo is probably the liar.
What Zo gets if he is lying (other than a verbal ass kicking from Shinro): The "Most powerful jutsu in the world."
What Shinro gets if he is lying: He gets to make Zo cry...? Other than that I can't think of any reason.
Occam's Razor and all that good stuff.
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Correction: Darkwaters03@gmail.com was the email address I used to create Academy Student Shinro. Kamui, if you want proof, check the messages on that account and you'll see that Zo is lying about everything.
@Rakudo: You're an intelligent one. You're right, though. I have nothing to gain by making Zo cry nor was that my intention by me being so stern. I'm glad this matter is at an end.
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Correction: Darkwaters03@gmail.com was the email address I used to create Academy Student Shinro. Kamui, if you want proof, check the messages on that account and you'll see that Zo is lying about everything.
@Rakudo: You're an intelligent one. You're right, though. I have nothing to gain by making Zo cry nor was that my intention by me being so stern. I'm glad this matter is at an end.
Zayuuummmmmmmmmmmmm! ;)
Seriously though, that argument should be over, nothing good is coming from it but the entertainment to others. I'll say from what i've read, Pete sounds a lot more convincing.
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Another thought, if Shinro is done with rp, he could give up Edo Tensei and obliterate that student/master spot from the board so this doesn't happen again.
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Let me just make it clear I don't tolerate any rude or bad language on here, at least not to that extent. ;)
@Shinro, I can't check mails. It's not within my power to do so.
I just go by word of mouth on here or someone will provide me a screenshot to validate their claims.
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Spot obliteration sounds nice.
Also, I wanted to add in my own two cents to this mini-discussion.
Kamui every time we discuss something on the forum, everything I say makes sense. You researched what exactly? Is there an SL version of the manga? Because their are no resets in Naruto, Obito popped a Rinnegan in his head and could use all 6 Paths, specifically the Outer Path which he spammed. The SL progression of the Rinnegan isn't even correct. The only connection between Human and Outer Path is that 6 comes before 7 but the Human Path isn't even actually the 6 path.
壱 (1) - Deva Path.
弐 (2) - Asura Path.
参 (3) - Human Path.
四 (4) - Animal Path.
五 (5) - Preta Path.
六 (6) - Naraka Path.
This actually lends credence to your theory since the Naraka Path is the 6th Path and it is the only one with a relationship to the Outer Path. If we want to follow that instead that is fine with me since I'll have my Human Path.
Fixed it for you.
It's like I said before and I'll re-phrase myself, I like your logic of being right on everything all of the time. ^^
From what was discussed after the Rinnegan requirement revelation, 2 Uchiha resets (With EMS obtained) + 1 Mokuton reset + 1 Rinnegan reset was the minimum requirement to use the Rinnegan in RP.
And 2 Rinnegan resets were required to start using Paths (as in, using bodies not your own with chakra receivers stuck into them) since you receive the Outer Path along with the Naraka on the second reset. The number of Path bodies you can use is equal to the number of Paths abilities you have unlocked.
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Spot obliteration sounds nice.
Also, I wanted to add in my own two cents to this mini-discussion.
Kamui every time we discuss something on the forum, everything I say makes sense. You researched what exactly? Is there an SL version of the manga? Because their are no resets in Naruto, Obito popped a Rinnegan in his head and could use all 6 Paths, specifically the Outer Path which he spammed. The SL progression of the Rinnegan isn't even correct. The only connection between Human and Outer Path is that 6 comes before 7 but the Human Path isn't even actually the 6 path.
壱 (1) - Deva Path.
弐 (2) - Asura Path.
参 (3) - Human Path.
四 (4) - Animal Path.
五 (5) - Preta Path.
六 (6) - Naraka Path.
This actually lends credence to your theory since the Naraka Path is the 6th Path and it is the only one with a relationship to the Outer Path. If we want to follow that instead that is fine with me since I'll have my Human Path.
Fixed it for you.
It's like I said before and I'll re-phrase myself, I like your logic of being right on everything all of the time. ^^
From what was discussed after the Rinnegan requirement revelation, 2 Uchiha resets (With EMS obtained) + 1 Mokuton reset + 1 Rinnegan reset was the minimum requirement to use the Rinnegan in RP.
And 2 Rinnegan resets were required to start using Paths (as in, using bodies not your own with chakra receivers stuck into them) since you receive the Outer Path along with the Naraka on the second reset. The number of Path bodies you can use is equal to the number of Paths abilities you have unlocked.
See Kamui? God agrees with me I must be right.
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Spot obliteration sounds nice.
Also, I wanted to add in my own two cents to this mini-discussion.
Kamui every time we discuss something on the forum, everything I say makes sense. You researched what exactly? Is there an SL version of the manga? Because their are no resets in Naruto, Obito popped a Rinnegan in his head and could use all 6 Paths, specifically the Outer Path which he spammed. The SL progression of the Rinnegan isn't even correct. The only connection between Human and Outer Path is that 6 comes before 7 but the Human Path isn't even actually the 6 path.
壱 (1) - Deva Path.
弐 (2) - Asura Path.
参 (3) - Human Path.
四 (4) - Animal Path.
五 (5) - Preta Path.
六 (6) - Naraka Path.
This actually lends credence to your theory since the Naraka Path is the 6th Path and it is the only one with a relationship to the Outer Path. If we want to follow that instead that is fine with me since I'll have my Human Path.
Fixed it for you.
It's like I said before and I'll re-phrase myself, I like your logic of being right on everything all of the time. ^^
From what was discussed after the Rinnegan requirement revelation, 2 Uchiha resets (With EMS obtained) + 1 Mokuton reset + 1 Rinnegan reset was the minimum requirement to use the Rinnegan in RP.
And 2 Rinnegan resets were required to start using Paths (as in, using bodies not your own with chakra receivers stuck into them) since you receive the Outer Path along with the Naraka on the second reset. The number of Path bodies you can use is equal to the number of Paths abilities you have unlocked.
@Kage, I got the gist of the information from this thread (http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,7133.0.html (http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,7133.0.html))
@Rakudo
Just for clarification, you need that one Mokuton reset to even begin to use the full extent of the Rinnegan's abilities in RP.
I looked up the whole "Yumei" Rinnegan rules thread and everyone pretty much agreed to one reset in Mokuton for RP usage.
Have fun with your "Hazama" Deva Path? I guess you're right or something like that. ^^
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Just like Luka, right? I'm pretty sure me and Luka are the only ones who benefit from being able to use Rinnegan without Uchiha and Senju. What I heard is that anyone who reset for Rinnegan before it was revealed you needed Uchiha and Senju AND locked themselves out by getting Ice or Hyuuga could continue to rp with the Rinnegan, which makes sense.
Why don't we talk about your Rinnegan though Kamui? I was told you died as a GM Uchiha Sage of 2 Paths, and before the Rinnegan revelation thingy. Then losing your Rinnegan when it came out. Since you'd have been an Edo with just Sharingan you should only have one KG, but you rp with three. If I am correct the "you must lose a reset to implant one" rule was already in effect when you changed from Enishi to Kamui. Though I'm sure you have many good reasons and eye-rolling smiley faces for why you seem to be breaking the Edo Tensei rules.
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Kamui AND Rakudo, why can't you two ever disagree with each other politely? If both of you would take your sarcastic digs at each other out of it, you'd be a lot more productive.
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Kamui AND Rakudo, why can't you two ever disagree with each other politely? If both of you would take your sarcastic digs at each other out of it, you'd be a lot more productive.
I blame the public school system.
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Kamui AND Rakudo, why can't you two ever disagree with each other politely? If both of you would take your sarcastic digs at each other out of it, you'd be a lot more productive.
I blame the public school system.
I'm gonna blame your mutual desire to be right.
NOBODY should have Edo Tensei, it prevents 29*-page-long threads that end in feuds between people who argue about stuff all the time anywas so I guess it doesn't actually matter.
Whatever, I'm gonna go crack another beer and keep watching.
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Do we actually have anything to discuss? Considering we already have the rules in place. I'd like to see something more productive than Zo/Shinro feuding or Rakudo/Kamui.
If not, lets just let this thread die until something productive pops up.
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Do we actually have anything to discuss? Considering we already have the rules in place. I'd like to see something more productive than Zo/Shinro feuding or Rakudo/Kamui.
If not, lets just let this thread die until something productive pops up.
Hey shut up I like watching them fight, it's better than the movies. You can't get petty sarcastic remarks like the ones you find here anywhere else.
Edit: This wasn't sarcasm, I actually enjoy watching.
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Do we actually have anything to discuss? Considering we already have the rules in place. I'd like to see something more productive than Zo/Shinro feuding or Rakudo/Kamui.
If not, lets just let this thread die until something productive pops up.
Hey shut up I like watching them fight, it's better than the movies. You can't get petty sarcastic remarks like the ones you find here anywhere else.
Case in point. ^
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Do we actually have anything to discuss? Considering we already have the rules in place. I'd like to see something more productive than Zo/Shinro feuding or Rakudo/Kamui.
If not, lets just let this thread die until something productive pops up.
Hey shut up I like watching them fight, it's better than the movies. You can't get petty sarcastic remarks like the ones you find here anywhere else.
Case in point. ^
There's a point to this? I guess I gotta go back and reread all 28 pages.
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Do we actually have anything to discuss? Considering we already have the rules in place. I'd like to see something more productive than Zo/Shinro feuding or Rakudo/Kamui.
If not, lets just let this thread die until something productive pops up.
Hey shut up I like watching them fight, it's better than the movies. You can't get petty sarcastic remarks like the ones you find here anywhere else.
Case in point. ^
There's a point to this? I guess I gotta go back and reread all 28 pages.
I was referring to said petty sarcastic remarks that you demonstrated for us.
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(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4771/hzx.gif)
I'm gonna go ahead and lock this since the topic's purpose was lost long ago.
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inb4 lock
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Since this is the offical ET discussion thread it'll be best to keep this unlocked so we can reuse it once another "issue" comes up. That will probably be better than to continue the cycle of locking and remaking Edo Tensei discussion threads when we can combine them all into one.
Just delete the posts that are spam.
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On Topic/Slightly:
I'm sure as of now i'm not the only one who sees the Body Recreation Technique as a void. A technique that is equal and somewhat greater in a way ( If Kabuto 'during the war' used it ) if used that way. Why is there another technique that matches a 'Kinjutsu' such as Edo Tensei?
Edo Tensei has been changed so many times in how it is used and its effects and whatnot, even here on SL. Why have a technique aside from Edo Tensei that can do the samething. Not speaking for everyone that I spoken to this about, though techniques in 'Filler' like this I tend to void with no discussion.
I just want input and hopefully a conclusion.
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This doesn't belong in the Edo Tensei topic. I will make a Body Recreation discussion.
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Coolio.
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Since this is the offical ET discussion thread it'll be best to keep this unlocked so we can reuse it once another "issue" comes up. That will probably be better than to continue the cycle of locking and remaking Edo Tensei discussion threads when we can combine them all into one.
Just delete the posts that are spam.
Well I'm keeping it locked as a way to end the constant spamming and off-topic discussions.
I'm not keen for deleting user's posts because I have no reason to unless it's really, really needed.
So please keep this topic locked, please and thank you.
If you need it unlocked. PM me or simply make a new thread and I'll merge them together. ^^