Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Deathstroke on August 09, 2015, 07:30:44 AM
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So, if anyone is familiar with the DC comics character mine is based off of then you already know what this topic is about. Deathstroke is basically an evil Batman and going with that theme he is the exact opposite of the dark knight, instead of swearing off guns Deathstroke is a walking armory.
Now I don't want to make an army but I wanted to have some firearms. A pair of pistols, smgs, and a sniper rifle was all I wanted.
If it is acceptable I will use real bullets in the pistols and submachine guns. If not I will only use special bullets in them, like I am going to for the sniper. I figured that would be the most disagreeable since I could potentially kill people from over a mile away.
So my idea was that they would use rubber bullets that would still hurt, but apply fuinjutsu at the point of impact. Obviously that could have varied effects but it would usually be chakra sealing or immobilization.
I'm going to be using real guns with real clip sizes so I'll actually be keeping track of the bullets and will have to reload when they run dry, which would be one of the actions for that turn.
I'm not telling anyone anything they don't know here. There was that one scene near the start of the series where a shopkeep has a gun. Kamui is basically a sniper rifle already, I saw someone on the wiki claiming to be able to launch objects with his Magnet Release at the speed of a railgun which is anywhere from Mach 5 to 10. So I don't see the big deal, maybe it's just a pet peeve of some people, but before I go out and use them I want to make sure there's not going to be a big argument about it.
Do the limits I have sound acceptable? Would anyone else suggest further limits to them? I want to know what, if anything more, I should do to make this work.
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I honestly wouldn't say it's impossible for you to use them or RP with them as I've seen pistols be used before on SL. I've used them as well a few years ago by applying empty shell bullets with chakra via Fuinjutsu resulting in Fire Exploding Rounds, Freezing Rounds, Normal Chakra Burst Rounds that would detonate on contact and release an explosion of concentrated chakra at a person. The possibilities weren't endless but their was a good amount of things you could do it with it. I personally like the idea of you keeping rounds and keeping a track of the bullets fired as i did the same so overall I say yeah go for it just don't go insane and start whipping out chain guns or anything.
It really all comes down to just how you RP it and the limits placed on it.
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A major component is the speed of the bullet.
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@Bryan
Like I said, the guns I listed were going to be the limits of my armaments, I wasn't planning to escalate it any further.
@Shadow
I don't find the speed any faster than Kamui. With predictive capabilities and high speed movement that ninja are known for I'd have no issue with people claiming to be able to avoid gun fire. Not as easy as a throwm shuriken or something, but it would still be possible.
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I, myself, do not know how to respond to this type of post, but I'll try my best. Guns in the naruto-verse were never used in combat, but one was shown and it wasn't shown since then.
I've seen other characters have guns before however they didn't keep the guns for very long.
Firearms in the naruto-verse also seems pointless considering that shinobi form handsigns and holding a gun hinders that. Also considering the weight of the weapon and the weight of how many bullets you are carrying makes you at a huge disadvantage when someone has paper bombs.
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I, myself, do not know how to respond to this type of post, but I'll try my best. Guns in the naruto-verse were never used in combat, but one was shown and it wasn't shown since then.
I've seen other characters have guns before however they didn't keep the guns for very long.
Firearms in the naruto-verse also seems pointless considering that shinobi form handsigns and holding a gun hinders that. Also considering the weight of the weapon and the weight of how many bullets you are carrying makes you at a huge disadvantage when someone has paper bombs.
I do realize the disadvantages, I'm just glad someone else does too. I really just want the ok to have them as an option. I'm not going to be strapped down with all of them, and fifty clips of ammo for each, at all times.
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I honestly compared the speed of the bullets to that of Kimimaro's drilling bullets. Koji's has a point with hand seals being hindered by it but depending on just what you do with those bullets they can easily circumvent the weakness. Now for the speed and ammo issues i'd say use good old Fuinjutsu's I mean you can seal shurikens and kunais onto your wrist... why not bullets as well to get over a few of those disadvantages.
I say there fine to have as an option, My honest opinion though is to supplement or find a secondary item to help avoid some issues, or trap enemies. The Sealing Arts, or A few trap making seals would help as your opponent won't just stay still.
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Firearms in the naruto-verse also seems pointless considering that shinobi form handsigns and holding a gun hinders that. Also considering the weight of the weapon and the weight of how many bullets you are carrying makes you at a huge disadvantage when someone has paper bombs.
It's been stated that if you're skilled enough in a certain ninjutsu element. Let's say katon that you can perform jutsu with just one hand sign that normally use 134. Even then a lot claim to be able to do hand signs with one hand. So guns that are one handed aren't really hindering if such skill is claimed. Further the gun can shoot a lot quicker than they can preform the jutsu. :P
Weight doesn't factor in much either. He's not going to be carrying 23 tons of ammo so much as 30-100 pounds for 1000 rounds. The smaller the bullet the less the weight obviously. Look up ammo weight. He can easily carry a good amount without much of a haul.
Paper bombs won't do much either. They'd MAYBE ignite the premier, but that's about it. Most of the time the casing goes and the premier can go off. Resulting in less than spectacular mini mini mini explosions. Even with 1000 rounds at once you're not looking at much. A concentrated blast is much more effective than a random outburst.
It's late. t.t
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Even though that one picture of a rifle or some such was shown, at least in my opinion conventional gunpowder guns simply don't really exist in Naruto. Following that logic, if you wanted one you'd have to find some other firing mechanism than the real life counterparts.
That's my opinion anyway.
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... So my idea was that they would use rubber bullets that would still hurt, but apply fuinjutsu at the point of impact. Obviously that could have varied effects but it would usually be chakra sealing or immobilization...
Incinderary, Caustic, borderlands ammo types etc. Okay, but sealng on impact is where I would suggest you just stick to regular bullet.
...I don't find the speed any faster than Kamui. With predictive capabilities and high speed movement that ninja are known for I'd have no issue with people claiming to be able to avoid gun fire...
The mechanics of a gunpowder gun are very different from the typical jutsu; it does not require chakra to use, so chakra sensors cannot sense it revving up before it fire. Sharingan and Byakugan users would probably be able to predict it, maybe the Mind's Eye too, but general extrasensory and the naked eye are not going to cut it unless the target has seen the firing of a gun before, and has an idea on what is going to happen.
Granted, you can kind of extrapolate that if osmeone is pointing something at you that you don't wanna stay in its line of sight, but I think you get the jist here.
... If it is acceptable I will use real bullets in the pistols and submachine guns. If not I will only use special bullets in them, like I am going to for the sniper. I figured that would be the most disagreeable since I could potentially kill people from over a mile away...
The only thing I have to just question is the sniper rifle, depending on its range. Killing from one end of a village to another (say Hokage Monument vantage point down to anywhere in the village) is a bit questionable, especially if the sniper rifle's bullet travels faster than the speed of sound. My Assassin's wind bullet probably has similar range (when combined with the eye scope), but thinking of the earlier mentioned points, pretty much any extrasensor can tell when I am about to use the technique, while your sniper would have virtually no warning to it prior (no chakra to sense, too far a range to see with sharingan, barriers would maybe pick up on the bullet as it travels (or micro into the motions of the gun, maybe) but by then unless you have the speed and reflexes of minato (which admittedly many of us claim) then completely dodging that bullet is just out of the question.
I am not sure about the whole guns thing in general, but that sniper rifle in particular draws my attention, especially if it has special ammunition inside of it.
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Use magnet realse powered guns that fire ninja tools with tags on the ends.
Filler has already shown kunai guns, and magnet release at least gives a chakra for people to sense. Plus you get the speed you are looking for. It's all science so you really can't refute the logic behind the magnet releases propulsion system either.
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I liked the idea of real guns with real bullets because then I would actually have limited ammo and the need to reload as a limiting factor. I could use guns that shoot chakra, but then my ammo is only limited by my chakra and I never have to reload. That would fix the issue of not being able to sense the shot though. The fact that you can't sense the bullet with traditional means was supposed to be one of the advantages, I am an assassin after all, but if that's not fair then I can use bullets people can sense.
As for the sealing bullets they weren't going to be like "I clip your ear lobe, your chakra is now off." It was sort of going to be like the Gentle Fist. If I hit you in the arm with one the seal would limit the arms movement and also stop you from flowing chakra through your arm, unless you remove the seal first. I could seal someone with that but I'd have to shoot them all over, or in the center of their chakra system, but then that would only seal their chakra, not their movement.
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As me and Rusaku were saying, they wouldn't really be real 'bullets' per say, rather slugs, spikes or something along those lines. You'd just have to figure out a firing mechanism different from how conventional RL firearms do it.
Magnet release, electricity or magnetism otherwise, gas, or even just manual wind like a repeater crossbow or some such. There's ways to do it, its just up to you to figure out how to pull it off with Naruto's limited and somewhat unique technology.
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To believe that Naruto is a fictional universe that's still very primitive is honestly a bit silly. To say that there's no guns in a world that has laptops and cell phones doesn't make sense (unless it was a peaceful world where guns aren't needed, be we know that's not true lol).
The likely reason where there are no guns (excepts for the one that's early on the series) is there really isn't a need for guns by the average ninja. Do you really need something that can only be used a few times before being needed to be reloaded on top of necessary maintenance when you can shoot fire out of your mouth or make the earth come up and crush people?
No, you probably wouldn't need a gun then. But why does the shopkeeper have a gun? Probably because he can't do those things and it's probably the only way he can protect his shop. But that's all speculation and time to go back to the topic at hand. And I don't see why it can't have a similar mechanism to how real firearms work, considering it's not really that advanced. Hell, I can build a shotgun at home with nothing more than some basic supplies. I could build an even smaller, hand-held one with not much other than some pipes and a nail.
At the end of the day, the use of the guns in question are dictated by Deathstroke. It's his decision on whether or not he'll use them in a fair way, or if he'll be popping off headshots from across the village left and right. My bet's on the former. The combination of elemental, physical, and sealing rounds that's at hand leads to a very interesting kind of gameplay.
And for the most part, the complaints can be summed up as 'Waah, my character can't dodge/sense it' or 'It's too fast'. But in this game where everyone's as fast as Minato and can sense everything better than a Sage with Mind's Eye, is it really 'unavoidable/undetectable'?
I can understand the apprehension about the sniper rifle in particular, but I doubt he will be using it for only headshots. More likely, he'll be using it for either body/limb shots for harming/disabling or be using it to apply long distance sealing for support. And I think that's something that people haven't really done before. Most sealing usually requires physical contact from what I've seen (or Kamui). So because he's breaking the norm and trying something new and interesting, my vote's all for it.
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Was going to post, but Bec pretty much covered it. Thanks ~
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As me and Rusaku were saying, they wouldn't really be real 'bullets' per say, rather slugs, spikes or something along those lines. You'd just have to figure out a firing mechanism different from how conventional RL firearms do it.
Magnet release, electricity or magnetism otherwise, gas, or even just manual wind like a repeater crossbow or some such. There's ways to do it, its just up to you to figure out how to pull it off with Naruto's limited and somewhat unique technology.
That would solve the issue of speed, if not the chakra sensing. That being said I did invent a bullet already, for my ballistic gauntlets. They can just shoot a spread of buckshot if I land a punch on something. So it's a shotgun shell and instead of gun powder the propellant is ground up explosive tags. Which is effectively gun powder.
@Beq
I can understand people's worries about speed, though like you said it seems they really shouldn't be. I am willing either not use the normal lethal bullets or just say the gun or bullets themselves use chakra so the attack can be sensed. From the get go I did intend to not use lethal rounds with the sniper, like I mentioned to you that would be the sealing bullets and such. You're correct in that I want it to be more of a supplementary weapon.
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Katon + futon to shoot the bullets. There ya go. ~
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Honestly I would like to see how Deathstroke would use these weapons in battle. I volunteer as tribute to do a test battle :D I have always wanted to fight my favorite DC villian. I believe we can analyze this more effectively with its use in the field.
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Except SL isn't at that advanced level we see by the time Naruto has become hokage, because no such boom and peaceful time has ever happened here. Furthermore, making a "gun" isn't difficult no, overly simplified perhaps but ultimately all you need to do is to stick a piece of metal and gunpowder in a pipe, aim it at something, then ignite the powder.
Building a proper trigger mechanism, empty shell removal, making the actual bullets themselves with the right mixtures inside them, especially if its a rapid fire weapon or sniper rifle of any even half noteworthy accuracy/power...whole different beast, especially in a world where such technology has never been utilized before. Closest things have ever come are simple projectile throwers like the sky shinobi utilized, and one can't really just universally try void that based off one tiny image that probably even Kishimoto himself forgot, no offense.
Besides, he wanted opinions and I gave mine. Obviously he's free to ignore it and do whatever the hell he pleases, too, I'm no nazi.
And if someones still confused over what my opinion actually is, I'll nutshell it; you can't make guns like RL firearms, but you can make a projectile thrower utilizing either manual force, gas or magnetism.
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Katon + futon to shoot the bullets. There ya go. ~
I could, like I said I did invent ninja gunpowder by grinding up explosive notes. Gunpowder was invented in our world before the year 1300 so I don't think it would be unrealistic for someone to make it here when we've invented wifi.
I'd be willing to give a demonstration, I'm free later this evening to start a fight if we wanted to do that.
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...I believe we can analyze this more effectively with its use in the field.
This.
... And for the most part, the complaints can be summed up as 'Waah, my character can't dodge/sense it' or 'It's too fast'...
Minus the pretentious "Waah" part, how else would you determine something "god-mode" or "OP" or even "questionable"? While this is definitely not god-mode as so far presented, I feel it (especially the sniper due to range) falls into questionable territory. No matter the argument for why guns can be in the SL verse, it ultimately comes down to should conventional weaponary of this sort be in the SL verse. Guns have been rare in SL for a reason beyond no character in the naruto series actually using a conventional gun (in all seriousness a gun probably could kill several of the main frequent characters characters fairly easily, barring Naruto, Sasuke, pre-Hokage Kakashi, and the likes so its not a matter of uselessness or inapplicability).
Should I totally be cool with some guy running around with guns, with a hair-like trigger mechanism, ultimately leading to the next logical steps once gunpowder guns are considered totally okay of their counterparts with bullets of varying powers and abilities as diverse as jutsu itself to follow (might not even be Deathstroke that takes it in that direction). I don't really feel I should be cool with that kind of esclation, or even the base directing.
I digress though, let's see it in action as Rusaku said. Concerns regarding it will likely arise once Deathstroke shows rather than tells us what he has in mind.
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Alright then. If Rusaku is free this evening we can give it a shot (I swear that was unintentional). For a first draft I'll try guns with the various kinds of bullets I was going to use, but with chakra as a propellant. A shot can be sensed when it is about to be made and action can be taken to avoid being hit.
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I'm at work now, but I'll message you when I'm off so we can set up the details.
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While I may not be entirely for guns, they're kinda hard to pull off when much of the ninja population consists of the clan with red eyes that can perceive thing slower and predict the movements of others.
Though when compared to the pre-loaded jutsu wrist device that lets any ninja use any element with just a little chakra in the Boruto movie, guns get pretty out-teched by ninja tech.
(https://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e365/AzureFlame_Kite/1437948323227_zps6d46zoxs.jpg)
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Now that's just cool. That being said the guns are just more for fitting my character than being something I want because I think it will help me beat everyone.
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I'm actually more worried about that coming into play than guns. Because of spamming Rasenshuriken shenanigans that can happen. But that's a topic for another thread.
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That looks really cool. I would like to have one. o.o
Although it grants people to do one-handed seals, no? o.o
It looks like you seal a jutsu into those elemental scrolls and then perform the hand-seal pertaining to the element. I would assume the device can hold up to 5 elements, otherwise what's the point of the hand-seal. I must have limited use though, like one time only for each element.
There must be a limit on the type/rank of jutsu can store.
Rasenshuriken was a kinjutsu until Naruto used senjutsu chakra to let it fly.
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Looking at the device it's pretty scary actually, lets say the limit/rank of the jutsu can only be
B Rank or Lower, just a single flick and bam you could launch an AOE jutsu within a second. It's an ingenious device though for genin and chunin.
Collaboration techniques could be fired of as well with enough practice as well saving precious chakra as well as time. A simple Gale Palm combined with Water Dragon Bullet and you'd have a good seasoned A rank level technique. 5 Potentially A rank Moves if you could supplement the collaborative technique. Should the limit be 1 A rank and 4 B rank then you even have potential to shoot out a near S rank move. An ingenious device for people who can't use all the elements, don't have the experience necessary, or are lacking in chakra.
My only question is though how are the techniques launched? From the wrist?
I mean are there only certain ninjutsu that can be used like this?
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Looking at the device it's pretty scary actually, lets say the limit/rank of the jutsu can only be
B Rank or Lower, just a single flick and bam you could launch an AOE jutsu within a second. It's an ingenious device though for genin and chunin.
On the side it looks like instructions on how to activate it, so it's more than just a flick of the wrist. >.>
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From way I understood it, it only holds one scroll/capsule/whatever at a time in the removable part, not all five, then depending on what element it is the activation sequence/seals for the device vary as depicted. Could even be it holds only the one single jutsu, but would have to see Boruto's usage of it in the movie first.
Imo its not nearly as big a deal as people are making it out to be though, since keep in mind even if you can form and release the jutsu with it, its magnitude is very likely going to be limited at best, and no doubt quite volatile too since you'd have basically unexistant skill to manipulate said elements yourself.
To give a crude example, lets say Naruto used this thing. I could see him launching a fireball akin to a goukagyu or something, but a hugeass inferno like Madara's gouka mekkyaku? Lolnope.
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Look's like Spiderman's Web Launcher.
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Look's like Spiderman's Web Launcher.
Didn't you hear? Kishi took some inspiration from across the pond for this one here. 8)
For those unaware, the test thread is up in village square (same board this is located in).
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I'll be making another topic on this, to show how scarily wrong all of you are about it.
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After some time Ryoji and I decide to conclude our fight, deciding it's purpose has been reached. Neither he nor I have had any complaints on the firearms, either in messages or this thread. I locked the fight and am making this post to just ask for final opinions on my weapons, if anyone noticed anything they think should be different, or if I am ok to go and use them in rp at large.
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I honestly see nothing wrong with this.
I mean come on people let the guy make his character. Do you really think he will trump yours so great with a gun?
I'll fight him using nothing but kenjutsu and taijutsu.
Dude make your chapter the way you wanna make it. This is SL a place where freedom should be smiled upon not frowned. It was once a sense of pride to bring about something out of the norm.