Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Council => Topic started by: Hazama on December 07, 2016, 05:15:29 AM
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So Genesis and I have an issue we need the council to decide on.
He made his "official challenge" for the 9 Tails and it was so silly that everyone, including the challengee and a moderator thought it was a joke and it was moved to spam.
Meanwhile I made a deal with Ryoji that I would get to fight him sooner than the challenge cooldown allowed for if I won another bijuu in a fight. I won the 7 Tails today and this evening Ryoji and I started our pre-fight discussions as per our agreement.
Then Genesis comes back insisting his challenge was legitimate and that he should get to fight Ryoji before me.
So we need a call on who gets to go first.
My logic of course is that I should go first because if your challenge is so ridiculous that everyone thinks it's a joke and the host starts another fight, that's the challengers fault, and he should be held responsible for it, not get to cut ahead of me.
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Hi and hello. Before I let the council talk it out, let me make my point and then I'll leave it up to the council.
Since a new council was coming in, I thought to myself "Hey...I can have a bijuu now!". Because of the new council and the old council essentially being null, a certain thought filled my head. And you see, that thought filled my head with glee. I wanted to get a bijuu! So why not going after the biggest one?
It was on that Saturday night that I threw down my request.
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9160.0.html
The initial post was a simple word, "Title". There was nothing parodying about that first post as it was self-explanatory. Then my good ol' chap Rusaku came in and replied. You see, Rusaku and I go back and I consider him a good friend. What do good friends do? They jest! And jest we did.
Eventually, he says "you can set up a topic" and I aptly respond with "S-ssure thing....B-B-baka!" as most of us would obviously say. I took that as my "Alright, the fight is set up". If I'm at fault for anything, it wasn't for setting up a fight early enough. I blame that on finals, but last time I checked, there's no rules to setting up the thread almost immediately.
Then Tuesday happened and here we are. Now I understand Bijuu challenges are super serious business to some. I too know how serious it gets...I literally just served on the council. So I made a challenge and me and Rusaku had a good time out of it. There was no way in hell did I think something like this would happen. I'm sorry for being a guy who likes to have fun, but that was a serious challenge at the end of the day.
Also I seriously can't believe this is an issue.
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This is a pretty...interesting situation to be in.
Indeed Gen's challenge was comedic, and the masses initially believed that it was a joke. Though the title does say "Official challenge" and I did agree to it. At the time of Athos' challenge, he was on cool down, which I agreed could be lifted if he were to put up two beasts, which he went about doing. Though during the time he was getting that second beast, Gen made his topic. So technically Gen's challenge is more legitimate than Athos' due to the latter being on cool down.
That is my two cents on this, but I would prefer if other people chimed in. There don't seem to be any rules on a challenge needing to be serious in nature so I don't think Gen violated anything. He even went so far as to reiterate that it was in fact a serious challenge after the topic was sent to spam. My current opinion is that Genesis is an official challenger for the Nine tailed beast.
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*Not a council member.....yet.*
I'm inclined to believe that, despite the comedic effect of Genesis's post, he still did issue the challenge first, Genesis's challenge comes first.
However, to appease Athos, he should be allowed to be first challenger of whoever wins the match between Gene and Ryoji since Ryoji made that silly promise and stipulation in order to even get the challenge.
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I'm kind of confused about the whole agreement to the cool down being lifted. It doesn't need to be agreed on. The cool down is there to keep others from challenging a new host once they get their bijuu. As far as I'm aware the host can fight whenever they want to and ignore the cool down altogether.
Onto the point, Genesis made his challenge official before your plans with each other came to fruition. Japan doesn't stop their attack on Australia today just because Germany had plans to attack them in 2 weeks. If in the time that Australia becomes controlled by Japan then Germany can decide to either attack as planned or hold off.
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Yeah why would we want him to take responsibility for his mistake? Obviously the fact that he couldn't be bothered to make a legitimate looking challenge, to the point where not even Ryoji thought it was real,
---Original Message from Ten'nō Ryoji(2016-12-07 02:47:47)---
OK so this throws a kink in the system. I thought this was a joke, but Gen is actually hitting me up for a challenge, and he even made a thread.
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,9160.15.html
It was even moved to spam for how stupid it was, but he seems legit. I might actually have to fight Gen first >.>
Should be rewarded.
Have fun, but when you start an industrial fire because you were juggling lit blowtorches and lose your job you don't go, "Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to have any fun."
Ryoji and I had already started our fight we were discussing the judge and voids and such. I shouldn't have to get booted to the back of the line because of someone's else's mistake. Gen screwed up his challenge and he should have to take responsibility for it not be rewarded.
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As others have pointed out, Genesis' challenge was issued first, and the topic name of his thread and first post were adequate. Nothing about it initially seemed like a joke.
I get joking with friends, and I will say that I think it's dumb that a challenge post turned into a unnecessarily long thread that did not deal with the topic material. There's certainly a better ways to do things, but Genesis' initial challenge was still valid.
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How was it initially valid? All he did was post a topic that said challenge with no content and then immediately started talking about memes.
Genesis made a mistake and so I get punished for it? How does that make any sense? My fight had already started because he was too incompetent to make a challenge that was taken seriously.
I could understand if he had only said I could go next and then went oh hey I made a mistake Genesis actually challenged me first but our fight had ALREADY STARTED.
So the decision we want to make is that my fight gets cancelled and pushed back because Genesis screwed up the easiest part of a bijuu battle?
Thats complete bull. He messed up so make him be responsible for it don't reward him it's pretty simple.
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The way it stands now is that Genesis made his challenge in a public forum before Athos did, at least that what it looks like for now.
The way that I see it is like this. If you can present a mail that shows your declaration of challenge, time-stamp and all. This will basically prove that you made the declaration of challenge first and accordingly to the bijuu rules, your fight will come first instead of Genesis's. I mean, this is the only way I can see this can changing to your favor, Athos.
Meanwhile I made a deal with Ryoji that I would get to fight him sooner than the challenge cooldown allowed for if I won another bijuu in a fight.
I didn't know that it was "cool" to bend bijuu rules like that. If I actually take this information into consideration, the honour of the fight should be Genesis's. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. I mean what's next? We start bending more rules and will only stop when it doesn't have any benefit to that character? I feel like I am treading on slippery slope from here on forth and I don't think it'll end well with regulations, but no rules.
PS: Spamming is spamming. I am not going to sugarcoat it for you, since I've dealt all forms of spam and I know spam when I see it. All seriousness aside, you a commitment when you took on the role of a jinchuuriki and besides. We can all agree that this thread could've been avoided, had the challenge/fight thread didn't consist of spamming. I mean, how hard is it to start a thread without rubbing elbows with each other? I had fights with friends before on the forum and even I didn't spam like you guys did. :roll:
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The way it stands now is that Genesis made his challenge in a public forum before Athos did, at least that what it looks like for now.
The way that I see it is like this. If you can present a mail that shows your declaration of challenge, time-stamp and all. This will basically prove that you made the declaration of challenge first and accordingly to the bijuu rules, your fight will come first instead of Genesis's. I mean, this is the only way I can see this can changing to your favor, Athos.
Meanwhile I made a deal with Ryoji that I would get to fight him sooner than the challenge cooldown allowed for if I won another bijuu in a fight.
I didn't know that it was "cool" to bend bijuu rules like that. If I actually take this information into consideration, the honour of the fight should be Genesis's. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. I mean what's next? We start bending more rules and will only stop when it doesn't have any benefit to that character? I feel like I am treading on slippery slope from here on forth and I don't think it'll end well with regulations, but no rules.
PS: Spamming is spamming. I am not going to sugarcoat it for you, since I've dealt all forms of spam and I know spam when I see it. All seriousness aside, you a commitment when you took on the role of a jinchuuriki and besides. We can all agree that this thread could've been avoided, had the challenge/fight thread didn't consist of spamming. I mean, how hard is it to start a thread without rubbing elbows with each other? I had fights with friends before on the forum and even I didn't spam like you guys did. :roll:
I'm sorry, are you the fun police? :roll:
Athos was basically begging me to lift the three month cool down before he can challenge again, and offered a trade in order to do so. Instead of offering up one tailed beast, he would go out and win a second one to sweeten the deal. I was under the impression he lacked the ability to actually go out and get a second one, so I agreed to participate in a fight only once he had collected the second beast. Time goes on and Gen places his challenge. Neither I, nor Genesis, are bound by any rules that I am aware of that require the thread to be serious or professional. He made a thread that said official challenge, and that's the end of it. His challenge was in place before Athos' could be considered legitimate, so he will be the first in line. Though if it turns out that I'm not allowed to make an exception and lift the cool down for an earlier fight, then I find that hilarious. No skin off my teeth not to fight someone like...the challenger(s)
And the only obligation that I have is to remain active and defend the beast. I am doing both, so I don't see how me trying to enjoy this soul crushing husk of a Naruto game is something to get on my shit about. How about you kids take a seat while the big boys discuss how this fight is going to go down. I'll be messaging Gen to go over the actual details now.
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https://s24.postimg.org/kv5sfojpx/Challenge.jpg
I initially asked for the challenge in lieu of the cooldown period on December 1st, which is before Genesis fielded his "challenge".
Of course as Alek already said he doesn't count that as the date the challenge was made since now that I actually completed our deal he's going to back out on it. Was pretty foolish of me to expect anything better of him honestly.
So I'll wait for a council member to make a decision on the matter now that I have provided my evidence.
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I mean, I don't think this honestly needs council vote. Genesis made his challenge public and you made a deal behind the scenes. One is legit and the other isn't. It's like complaining you didn't become President because you made a deal with the previous President that he'd give you the spot, but the other guy actually won the legitimate way through vote.
Analogies aside, pretty much everyone here is in agreement that Genesis gets first pickings and some of those people include those who are likely to be on the next council. IMO, this matter has been dealt with, but I'll leave that for you all to decide.
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I mean, I don't think this honestly needs council vote. Genesis made his challenge public and you made a deal behind the scenes. One is legit and the other isn't. It's like complaining you didn't become President because you made a deal with the previous President that he'd give you the spot, but the other guy actually won the legitimate way through vote.
Analogies aside, pretty much everyone here is in agreement that Genesis gets first pickings and some of those people include those who are likely to be on the next council. IMO, this matter has been dealt with, but I'll leave that for you all to decide.
And thank you for your expert opinion Nathan.
If we want to pretend that asking someone to forgo their cooldown and have a fight, which has been done many times before, is some sort of dastardly deal to make me seem bad, when I'm the only one involved who didn't do anything wrong, that's fine. I don't know why I would expect this community to do anything else besides delude themselves into thinking that what they're doing isn't as cowardly as it is dishonest.
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To be fair to Genesis, Kamui asked if the thread was spam and Yujo said yes, for it to be moved there.
If Kamui had waited to Genny to respond, it would have been made clear there. I don't blame Kamui for moving it though, so don't interpret this as an attack on him.
I personally thought the challenge was serious, even with the spam as it was just two friends having fun.
So I'd say Genny gets first crack. Of course, you could request that it be a triple threat match, but that's up to the other two. Just my opinion on the matter.
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Wait, the question was asked if that topic in question was "spam?"
And the answer was, yes?
Guess we all can have our cake and eat it too! =)
I'll reserve my opinions until I join the new council-- I must say though, I'm fairly impressed with the names that will be on the council. Let alone, impressed by this topic. People are making some great points!
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... I didn't know that it was "cool" to bend bijuu rules like that. If I actually take this information into consideration, the honour of the fight should be Genesis's. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. I mean what's next? We start bending more rules and will only stop when it doesn't have any benefit to that character? I feel like I am treading on slippery slope from here on forth and I don't think it'll end well with regulations, but no rules...
This is not the first time a challenger has been allowed to challenge "early":
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8031.msg216998.html#msg216998
http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8145.0.html
I had no one in my challenge list and no one really objected to the allowance so I reasoned it was ok in the end to start the match. Now, we are almost 2 whole years since then (man... almost 2 years since all those threads) and this is the first time I'm really noticing it. Then again, whether people go early in cooldowns is not exactly something I go around hunting for.
And let the record go that I at least did think that it was a legit challenge thread:
(http://i.imgur.com/FEXlF.jpg)
I for one think that this is a good stopping point for the dirtiness of this Challenge Thread.
Given the correspondence after Kamui asked if it was spam or not, the main thing I see as a point is:
So, I recognize this as an official challenge. I realize this thread seemed like a joke, but Gen has assured me that it was very real. We are currently in debate on if Athos should take priority or not considering he made a more serious challenge. More to come.
"a more serious challenge", not a more valid challenge. As far as I believe, Genesis should take priority.
But, what's this about the host starting anther fight? Anyone got more details on that tidbit?
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From what I've seen, Athos had a behind-the-scenes deal to fight Rusaku earlier than the supposed cool-down date and they would put up two bijuus in that fight. I don't know what happened, but Genesis went and made a public post to make his challenge "legitimate", but in the end it devolved into spam. Despite everyone jumping in and saying that the challenge was public and legitimate, when it was spam to begin with and I am the "fun police" for pointing this out. Ironic, if you ask me.
Now when I was a Jinchuuriki, I had honor all of my challenges and went with the first person that either mailed me or had to go with a list that was passed onto me by the previous jincuuikri. The very next day or that same day, me or my opponent would have a thread up; depending in the order of who is challenging who.
The point is that the challenge should start at private mails then you can go from there to a public setting of either forums or zones. No one gets to cut in line by being sneaky and making a public post to state your challenge, when there was someone ahead on the list. I am not trying to be a spoil sport here, but this is all from my perspective.
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I guess everyone's decided this is a problem for the new council, but I'll throw my lame-duck opinion in.
Genesis should have first dibs.
He made a public challenge when none existed.
Athos was still technically on challenge cool-down and did not have that lifted by the Jinchuriki until after Genesis' challenge was made, thus anything they talked about was just that, talk, and not an official challenge.
Thus Genesis should get first dibs, winner gets Athos, should he want to go through with his challenge.
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So Genesis and I have an issue we need the council to decide on.
He made his "official challenge" for the 9 Tails and it was so silly that everyone, including the challengee and a moderator thought it was a joke and it was moved to spam.
Meanwhile I made a deal with Ryoji that I would get to fight him sooner than the challenge cooldown allowed for if I won another bijuu in a fight. I won the 7 Tails today and this evening Ryoji and I started our pre-fight discussions as per our agreement.
Then Genesis comes back insisting his challenge was legitimate and that he should get to fight Ryoji before me.
So we need a call on who gets to go first.
My logic of course is that I should go first because if your challenge is so ridiculous that everyone thinks it's a joke and the host starts another fight, that's the challengers fault, and he should be held responsible for it, not get to cut ahead of me.
again...pleaase. Everyone. These back door deals need to be documented in your challenge threads to avoid future clusters. Hosts need to be book keeping or maybe they should be stripped if they can't manage that sort of task? I just don't know...
just a heads up to you all...the first one of these that crosses my desk as a council member and there is no challenge on the forum thread will get laughed at. If it's not written in your challenge tracker...it didn't happen.
do your job and i will do mine.
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1] Forum Account and Challenging the Host
- A host must have/create an SL forum account.
- Challengers will also have/create an SL forum account.
- Challengers and hosts may have more than one OOC match going on at the same time.
- A host must create a thread with the name of his or her bijuu in the title to the Bijuu Arena board, and use this thread to: state his or her preference for battle, keep a list of challengers, indicate if he or she is a new host and when his or her grace period will be over, and post any notices of absence.
- A host cannot be challenged for his or her biju until after his or her 14 day grace period is over. After a host's 14 day grace period has ended, a challenger posts/issues a challenge to the host of preference as a reply to the thread of that particular beast for which they are interested in competing. The challenger must post to the host's preference thread to make a valid challenge. The host should also be notified by the challenger via SL PM (Shinobilegends Personal Message) that the challenger has issued a valid challenge.
- After losing a challenge, the defeated challenger may not challenge the same host for the same beast for 3 months. However, he or she may challenge this same host for a different beast in his or her possession without waiting.
- Challengers must check forum host preference threads to stay informed of the current status of the host.
- After arrangements have been made between the host and challenger, a post to indicate what terms have been accepted will be made to the host's thread.
- Challengers must also post a notice of absence in the thread of the host they are currently combating and/or challenging.
The challenger's thread calling you out is not enough. You might have someone ahead of him already. Keep your lists posted for official challenges. Note the preference thread is not a separate thread a challenger creates. Note: for an official challenge. The actual challenge thread is not created until it is that person's turn to face the host.