Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => Village Square => Topic started by: Ѕhadow on December 31, 2014, 01:40:32 PM
-
I wrote a long ass post, but as always I trashed it. So unless needed to go on a rant here's my short version.
What are the healing limitations of the clan?
Obviously there are some. You're pulling bones out of your body. Unless you have some passive healing power you would die in no time.
-
Way I see it, whenever you remove a bone, a new one is regrown to replace it even as you pull the old one out, so based on that I'd imagine just a lesser fixing of tissues to close the holes you pulled them from, no Hashirama style hax or anything.
Only problems with that though are the skull due to all the organs encased inside of it, and the spine due to all the nerves innit.
-
Way I see it, whenever you remove a bone, a new one is regrown to replace it even as you pull the old one out, so based on that I'd imagine just a lesser fixing of tissues to close the holes you pulled them from, no Hashirama style hax or anything.
Only problems with that though are the skull due to all the organs encased inside of it, and the spine due to all the nerves innit.
Yeah, I'm not going for Hashirama level healing, but there's obviously some kind of passive factor that is there.
I was going to use his spine as a prime example. That's connected to lot of nerves and tissues as well as allows you to move and your organs to function. Yet he pulled it out and had no issues at all.
-
The way I've looked at it is instant regeneration while actively using the Shikotsumyaku. Meaning, you are consciously forcing yourself to regenerate while you pull or grow your bone. But it's only a regen for that ability. Being attacked and sliced up by an opponent doesn't result in the same regen ability.
If it's a self-inflicted injury due to the Shikotsumyaku, then it's instant. If not, there's no regen.
-
Its far fetched, but if imagining the vertebrae split or something to allow drawing the cord out from 'around' the nerves, center and such, its very vaguely plausible.
Skull is the only thing I can't really imagine surviving extracting. Creating a copy outside maybe, but not extracting.
What comes to regen itself tho, if it can/has to be willed, it wouldn't make sense that its limited only to Shiko injuries, you should technically be able to use it on other stuff too. Its more likely its an uncontrollable side effect, possibly related to the chakra used to stimulate the bone growth/manipulation.
-
The way I've looked at it is instant regeneration while actively using the Shikotsumyaku. Meaning, you are consciously forcing yourself to regenerate while you pull or grow your bone. But it's only a regen for that ability. Being attacked and sliced up by an opponent doesn't result in the same regen ability.
If it's a self-inflicted injury due to the Shikotsumyaku, then it's instant. If not, there's no regen.
I would consciously force myself to regenerate anything then. It wouldn't make sense if I chose not to. If one can consciously do it, then one would do it whenever they needed.
Even if it's passive to where it can't be controlled and is only active once you start using Shikotsumyaku then it still needs to be added.
-
I guess the simplest would be to say a considerably slower version of 'Healing power', only affecting areas near where shikotsumyaku's been used.
Say you fire a fingerbone? That hole won't close until you grow the bone back.
-
I guess the simplest would be to say a considerably slower version of 'Healing power', only affecting areas near where shikotsumyaku's been used.
Say you fire a fingerbone? That hole won't close until you grow the bone back.
The bones regrow almost instantly. The wounds heal the same way.
I don't see how the healing factor would be able to differentiate where the Shikotsumyaku has been used or not if it's passive.
-
Use chakra to stimulate bone growth, it radiates to surrounding cells to in turn stimulate cell division or some such.
-
Use chakra to stimulate bone growth, it radiates to surrounding cells to in turn stimulate cell division or some such.
So I'd just purposely pop out a bone in said area that I want to be healed and done. >>; xD
-
Don't see why not, its a fairly common trick among regenerators.
-
Don't see why not, its a fairly common trick among regenerators.
If it's able to be worked around why not just have it apply to the whole body and not only Shikotsumyaku areas?
-
Because shiko areas would be at least slightly logical still, as opposed to full body for no real reason. Canon seems to somewhat support this too, since the holes in Kimmi's skin from Gaara's Sabaku Taisou didn't close up until he manipulated bones again for CS2. If it was full body autonomous regen like healing power, they'd have started closing up right away.
Plus well, its always that much nicer when things actually have a logical weakness too.
-
Because shiko areas would be at least slightly logical still, as opposed to full body for no real reason. Canon seems to somewhat support this too, since the holes in Kimmi's skin from Gaara's Sabaku Taisou didn't close up until he manipulated bones again for CS2. If it was full body autonomous regen like healing power, they'd have started closing up right away.
Plus well, its always that much nicer when things actually have a logical weakness too.
It's also shown to instantly heal in all the other parts, which outweighs the one part that it didn't autoheal.
Regeneration for the full body as a passive power I don't see as far fetched. The reason would be Kaguya clan members can use all 206 bones as a weapon, which is your whole body. That's logical.
-
Knowing SL people though, that's just going to turn into 'Oh I'm Hashirama with bone weapons now, free super healing power ftw'. Imo it'd be wiser to limit it a bit.
-
Knowing SL people though, that's just going to turn into 'Oh I'm Hashirama with bone weapons now, free super healing power ftw'. Imo it'd be wiser to limit it a bit.
I already said not the same level as Hashirama hax. That was my main question. What is the limitation of it.
-
Well I already far slower and only in areas you use shiko at, but you kinda shot down both several times >>;
-
Well I already far slower and only in areas you use shiko at, but you kinda shot down both several times >>;
I was okay with only in shiko areas, but since I said the whole body is able to use Shiko then any part would technically be a shiko area. Also it's so easily bypassed.
And how much slower? It needs to be fast enough to repair tissues, nerves, etc but also slower than hax.
-
Even with the "bypass" you'd still have to go through the pain of manipulating in those injured areas tho =P
And iunno. Kinda feels like half, if not slower. Byakugou and HP kick in just about instantly, heal even full impalement wounds (susanoo sword through tsunades gut) in seconds, shiko seems to take a little bit and even then it just inches along.
-
Even with the "bypass" you'd still have to go through the pain of manipulating in those injured areas tho =P
And iunno. Kinda feels like half, if not slower. Byakugou and HP kick in just about instantly, heal even full impalement wounds (susanoo sword through tsunades gut) in seconds, shiko seems to take a little bit and even then it just inches along.
I'm either or for it being passive or it is only in shiko areas. Both work to me.
It's fast enough to where the person can still move. Like it never even happened. The second the bone starts to be removed another one takes place and any excess materials such as nerves and the likes are done within seconds also.
-
Wiki does state it takes a while for the limb/part to be usable again though, unless the bones are consciously grown back.
-
Wiki does state it takes a while for the limb/part to be usable again though, unless the bones are consciously grown back.
So passive slower than consciously.
-
I suppose it'd be notably slower for full body passive, faster for only localized conscious.
-
Wiki does state it takes a while for the limb/part to be usable again though, unless the bones are consciously grown back.
So passive slower than consciously.
Which is totally what I had meant in my post.
And that would be a round about way to heal though with the Shiko "areas" but none the less, I don't think auto regen just because should be allowed. Just as was mentioned about the Hashirama hax. Only heal if using the Shiko in that area.
-
The Kaguya KG is a Yang Release. Yang release governs the use of the body and its vitality in jutsu, like the Akimichi's body expansion set of jutsu.
By some coincidence, most healing techniques would also fall under Yang release for the same reason as above.
Consider this also. The Senju as a whole have great physical energy, but only one who was a reincarnation of an uber physical energy guy got to use wood release in the canon series. Tsunade, combining Uzumaki and Senju physical energy uberness, could have her body completely severed in half and still live long enough to save herself and the other Kage, or at least buy time for Oro and company to arrive.
The Kaguya, naturally then, only obtain their KG if they have the incredible physical energy required to perform the Yang release natured techniques. Specifically, the KG allows him to control the bone regulating and creating cells in the body. As the manga more graphically depicts, when he takes stuff out of his body, it generally causes a small amount of bleeding at first. That means that either their healing ability or the differing anatomy account for those injuries.
(middle of the fight between Gaara and Kimmimaro) http://www.mangapanda.com/93-221-1/naruto/chapter-216.html
Bear in mind, however, that a Kaguya's body is dramatically different than that of the ordinary human. When Kimmi pulled out his spinal cord, it was under the influence of sage transformation (I.E, senjutsu) along with that huge bone forest jutsu that he used. Could he have performed those without the cursed seal? Well, SL headcanon tends to believe so from what I've noticed in the past (recently haven't found a Kaguya, but I recall my fight with Luka).
So, back to the original question. What kind of regenerative power does the Kaguya have? I would imagine their passive regenerative power is considerable, but considering that we never saw anything actually pierce through the Kaguya body, we can assume that it can very swiftly (I would not daresay instantly) close up small wounds in the body. The guy's got such a skeletal structure, I doubt losing a spine (while in that sage transformation state) even affected his ability to stand to any serious degree, nor did it seem to do any noticeable damage.
So I'd say passively without enhancements, it could easily close up small wounds and such without much trouble. Passively, enhanced with sage mode, it could almost instantly patch up small wounds, and very quickly repair more serious ones like the spinal cord replacement trick. That's my view on it.
P.S As a comment towards Shiko areas, pretty much the entire body is a shiko area. The guy could form bone underneath his skin to protect him from getting crushed, so there is really nowhere that could be considered non-Shiko affectable from what I've seen.
-
Eric, I love you. <3
-
...so, TL;DR, you want to make it an even more OP healing than Byakugou >_> hooookay.
-
...so, TL;DR, you want to make it an even more OP healing than Byakugou >_> hooookay.
small wounds without sage mode and bigger ones with sage mode
-
Could live with that I guess.
-
...so, TL;DR, you want to make it an even more OP healing than Byakugou >_> hooookay.
Let me focus out the point of the longer statement:
... So I'd say passively without enhancements, it could easily close up small wounds and such without much trouble. Passively, enhanced with sage mode, it could almost instantly patch up small wounds, and very quickly repair more serious ones like the spinal cord replacement trick. That's my view on it.
Bear in mind, unlike Byakugou or Jashinist levels of healing, this would be absolutely useless if you were to get your head chopped off, get your heart pierced, or be poisoned/stuck with venom. Additionally, anything that affects your physical energy specifically can mess up your healing if not outright stop it.
Additionally, my long statement did not explicitly cover organs, as none of Kimmi's organs were seriously pierced or injured in the fight (hence a diffuclty in putting a canon-backed label on that). A ruptured kidney, outside of sage mode, is still going to cause issues. A pierced heart (if you get that far) will still do you in.
The Kaguya, yes, would be practically immune to physical damage due to their bones combined with healing ability, but as we saw in that fight with Gaara, that is not something we just came up with on the spot, it's suggested by canon that it would be next to impossible to seriously injure a Kaguya with physical damage alone. With all those openings and such, poison and venom would likely be more effective against them than trying to beat them over the head with a punch.
P.S Don't forget about corrosives, especially ones designed against biological structures.
-
I wish. You permit anything even remotely close to healing power to kaguyas, they will link it to organs and everything too, you know how these people are. Needless to say I'd rather go with Shadow's idea of it.
-
I don't think it should be applied to organs. 90% of the time your opponent won't even be able to dent bone armor.
-
Basically this. In a sense it'd make them worse than jashinists, because them you can at least decapitate to immobilize. Good luck breaking the spine of a kaguya though.
-
Basically this. In a sense it'd make them worse than jashinists, because them you can at least decapitate to immobilize. Good luck breaking the spine of a kaguya though.
Dust Release, Steam Release, Kamui, Fuinjutsu, Storm Release (shock and awe), Scorch release (bone or no bone, a dehydrated body is still a death sentence), Steel release weapon augmented with Futon (increase cutting ability plus durability), Diamond weapon coated in Futon (Kimmi's hardest bone was shattered by Gaara's super condensed sand defense if you recall), etc.
I mean, as long as they're not in sage mode, it's not really all that complicated. They go in sage mode and then you'll have to likely go into sage mode with them. If they have anything else augmenting their body other than Shiki, then alright, I can see how it could get a bit out of hand, but just plain Shiki on its own is not invincible.
-
So healing powers have an established base....to a degree.
My second thought was where they could make bones and how many. >>
Since Kimmi can grow a layer under his skin where none are can members then grow bones in their stomachs so long as the organs are not injured. Would one be allowed to continuously keep their shiko active? Like say they always want bones sticking out of their palms.
-
Technically you could grow either a plate or more ribs (reach over from spine at lower back) around the abdomen area too, though this would naturally hamper your ability to bend over considerably, if not prevent it completely. As for playing a human porcupine, I suppose you technically can if only the creation/manipulation of bones takes chakra but not just keeping them around. I wouldn't recommend it though, if your healing power would consider it an injury it could cause severe chakra drain or other complications, not to mention keeping holes to the body open would basically be an invitation to bacteria, disease et cetera.
-
Technically you could grow either a plate or more ribs (reach over from spine at lower back) around the abdomen area too, though this would naturally hamper your ability to bend over considerably, if not prevent it completely. As for playing a human porcupine, I suppose you technically can if only the creation/manipulation of bones takes chakra but not just keeping them around. I wouldn't recommend it though, if your healing power would consider it an injury it could cause severe chakra drain or other complications, not to mention keeping holes to the body open would basically be an invitation to bacteria, disease et cetera.
The holes would not stay there long enough for disease and bacteria unless it is directly exposed to such either intentionally or by accident. I imagine keeping the Shiki active all the time would be similar (but not the same) to constantly maintaing the size shifting of the Akimichi. The body wouldn't be too detrimentally affected by it, but I imagine that it would be impractical for day to day reasons, not necessarily because of the drain in chakra.
Recall, the Akimichi had to maintain a healthy diety in order to use their techniques. Naturally then, the Kaguya would have to maintain high calcium amounts (and whatever is used to absorb it) in order to stay in peak condition. As earlier noted, retracting those bones back into the body (or having those bones having any sort of openings) might would invite bacteria or viruses or other nasty stuff into the body, which would be bad.
So yeah, impractical to keep it active indefinitely outside of battle, but hardly because the body would mistake it as an injury that needs to be remedied.
-
Skin is a fairly tight seal >_>; bacteria doesn't really get in lest you get a cut or something that pierces it.
Shiko bones sticking out would be exactly that. Even if the exploded skin and muscle from their emerging closes up around it, its still not gonna prevent microscopic organisms from getting through should you get dirty.
-
Skin is a fairly tight seal >_>; bacteria doesn't really get in lest you get a cut or something that pierces it.
Shiko bones sticking out would be exactly that. Even if the exploded skin and muscle from their emerging closes up around it, its still not gonna prevent microscopic organisms from getting through should you get dirty.
But if the bones go back inside, they would carry back inside any microbes that were with them. No wonder Kimmi ended up dying of illness lol.
And the skin would knit up around the bone, reforming the seal, similar to a jewelry piercing. So while the initial breakage would break the seal, upon healing, the seal would be back in place. At least I'm pretty sure that's how that would work.
-
Difference is jewelry typically makes a hole all the way through, while shiko bones would be just an exit point, so it has no way to close up with the bone in the way.
-
Difference is jewelry typically makes a hole all the way through, while shiko bones would be just an exit point, so it has no way to close up with the bone in the way.
Wouldn't it just close up around the bone? Leave it long enough and you would kind of have a skin layerin thing where the area of penetration has an outside layer of skin, but the bone is still connected underneath, so shifting the bone out of place would re-open the wound and leave a permanent indentation where the bone previously was?
I can't wrap around why the body couldn't use the bone itself to help close up the gap. As long as the bone isn't moving about or anything of that sort anyways.
-
Cause it'd just make a kind of ring/hole around the bone, instead of fusing onto it.
-
Cause it'd just make a kind of ring/hole around the bone, instead of fusing onto it.
Wouldn't that still close up the wound itself?
-
Wouldn't bleed or anything, but there'd be a way inside the body through there, to my understanding about these things anyway.
-
What if instead of sucking the bones back up they just push them all the way out and that way no bacteria goes back in. >.>
-
One way to do it I suppose.
-
Even Mioku and Court? Strange, I recall they too went through that major disease phase, Court in particular, and only survived it due to some miracle. Medicine that Aoko made? Dunno, you'd have to ask them.
-
So they made their own stories of their Kaguya's that is fine. Though I don't agree that in order to use the bone forest or anything of the sort that you need a pill beforehand.
-
Less of a risk to take it beforehand I suppose? Its kind of like a blood pill, its better take it early than when you've nearly bled out to death.
-
Less of a risk to take it beforehand I suppose? Its kind of like a blood pill, its better take it early than when you've nearly bled out to death.
I'm not saying you can't or that it won't help. Just Kimmi did it within mins of his death and didn't show any kind of calcium pill or whatnot to perform it.
-
That was also with CS2 though. Without it would be a whole other story.
-
Perhaps...
Still unclear as to added bones where there aren't any. >>
-
Perhaps...
Still unclear as to added bones where there aren't any. >>
Mass production from the body, perhaps? If I can sprout a forest of trees from nowhere, why not a forest of bones from mass reproduction from my body? I mean, yeah, that would likely take a toll (he merged with the bone to attack ya know ya know) but it is pretty clear how that is made.
-
Thought I already answered that, but will try again.
To my understanding you can't just grow one in the middle of a muscle clump or something, you'd have to spread it out from already existing ones. So for example that stomach covering you wanted, one way would be to simply make more ribs that reach around from the spine, then are spread out and melded together.
-
So then I'd just leave a clump of bone in my stomach and recede the other parts? Right?
-
Technically you could do that, yes. It wouldn't be terribly smart though, cause it'd prevent you from behind over about completely.
-
Well that's all I have for now. Thank you guys. xD
-
Late to this discussion, but refer to this page and the next two after it.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-206-page-5.html
Kimimaro literally pushes the bone out through his skin and muscles, which become totally exposed, and then grabs it. After he takes it out, it all closes back up like it was nothing. That is some serious healing ability that the Kaguyas inherently have. The anime doesn't do showing it justice, since it had to be censored to show only black holes opening up with bones coming out. But when you get down to it, this is probably on par with Hashirama's Healing Power. And the only instance of that power which we refer to all the time is Madara's use of it while under the influence of Senjutsu Chakra. If we're going by resets, then 4 Senju and 6 Sage Mode resets are required to be on-par with 2 Kaguya resets.
And let's not get into the discussion of bacterial and viral infection. Unless someone wants to actually kill-off their character on purpose, people aren't going to die from those, unless it's done by an opposing party that had created a virus via their medical knowledge. The only instances I've ever seen of that in active use is the Poison Mist technique.
So yeah, once again winning the genetic lottery grants you a plethora of advantages over the average mook. Tsunade had to dedicate her life to Medical Ninjutsu to develop a technique that heals her body rapidly, after storing chakra into her Byakugou. While the Kaguyas can just do it at will. It sounds unfair at first, but let's not forget that the Kaguyas aren't the only ones running around with genetic advantages. Sure it sounds OP to heal wounds at will, but that gets pretty hard to do when you're Amaterasu'ed. Or if you're bisected by a Susanoo blade. Getting crushed to a literal pulp by trees that can absorb chakra is also hard to recover from. You can't mold the chakra to regenerate your body either if your tenketsu are closed via Gentle Fist.
My point being, is that the average guy is going to have trouble. But the genetically-gifted are going to have a hard time taking each other down.
-
Late to this discussion, but refer to this page and the next two after it.
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-206-page-5.html
Kimimaro literally pushes the bone out through his skin and muscles, which become totally exposed, and then grabs it. After he takes it out, it all closes back up like it was nothing. That is some serious healing ability that the Kaguyas inherently have. The anime doesn't do showing it justice, since it had to be censored to show only black holes opening up with bones coming out. But when you get down to it, this is probably on par with Hashirama's Healing Power. And the only instance of that power which we refer to all the time is Madara's use of it while under the influence of Senjutsu Chakra. If we're going by resets, then 4 Senju and 6 Sage Mode resets are required to be on-par with 2 Kaguya resets.
And let's not get into the discussion of bacterial and viral infection. Unless someone wants to actually kill-off their character on purpose, people aren't going to die from those, unless it's done by an opposing party that had created a virus via their medical knowledge. The only instances I've ever seen of that in active use is the Poison Mist technique.
So yeah, once again winning the genetic lottery grants you a plethora of advantages over the average mook. Tsunade had to dedicate her life to Medical Ninjutsu to develop a technique that heals her body rapidly, after storing chakra into her Byakugou. While the Kaguyas can just do it at will. It sounds unfair at first, but let's not forget that the Kaguyas aren't the only ones running around with genetic advantages. Sure it sounds OP to heal wounds at will, but that gets pretty hard to do when you're Amaterasu'ed. Or if you're bisected by a Susanoo blade. Getting crushed to a literal pulp by trees that can absorb chakra is also hard to recover from. You can't mold the chakra to regenerate your body either if your tenketsu are closed via Gentle Fist.
My point being, is that the average guy is going to have trouble. But the genetically-gifted are going to have a hard time taking each other down.
Never late, only arriving precisely when you intend to. 8)
I suppose you make an intriguing point there. All that really needed to be done was regrow the bone and put back together the parts that were temporarily separated. The remainder of the fight Kimmi had didn't go into as much detail, and I perhaps should have looked back further. Talk about stitching oneself back together. xD
I imagine that ties in with the incredible amount of physical energy required to even use Shiki in the first place.
-
The shoulder thing wasn't ultimately all that impressive >> muscle repair is a simple thing for the body even normally, as for skin...well, I suppose the fact that split thumbs are sometimes glued back on says enough, lol.
-
I was always told by the Shiki users of old, Sevilon, Mioku, Murcielago, Skinless....and I would love to see them or Court post here as they are the ones I have seen use it in the past...
That Kaguya's were disease resistant. Kimi had a blood disorder, not bacterial disease...And they were always searching for the cure. But you don't get infections cause of the natural resistance to disease.
Also...massive Bone creation takes some sort of calcium substitution/replacement pill. And the big bone forest move? It takes more than one turn to execute.
However, repairs to the skin are automatic. It happens while the cuts are being made, as is seen with any of Kimi's bone extractions. I would agree with the discussion thus far concerning organ damage though.
As I've mentioned to Kay here.. Yes. Kaguya's bodies are.. Well completely different from the norm. From how I took things eons ago til' now was a double edged sword. Your average cold/bacteria/virus isn't going to do anything to a Kaguya because of how different they are, (Notice how I didn't include poison) but at the same time your average healer isn't going to be able to heal/cure a Kaguya of something they may catch unless they were an expert on their physiology. Terrible example, but best I can think of right now as the difference between a vet and a regular doctor. Some similarities, but a doctor may not know how to cure a sickness that a bird or w/e may catch.
Other points that were mentioned were that.. The only tech/dance that really seemed to cause any exhaustion was the bone forest and unlike the other dance's it's classified as Kekkei Genkai/Ninjutsu instead of Taijutsu so take that as you will.
As for healing factor.. I always had the interpretation that due to the muscle, nerve, skin tear that your above average Kaguya would be able to heal damages to those specific areas to make up for the fact that no one else would be able to due to my previous point above with the 'alien physiology' as the Shikotsumyaku was/is supposed to be the 'ultimate' Taijutsu ability which is why Oro wanted it during his Uchiha predator phase. It would only make sense that an sturdy regenerating body would be something he wanted. I agree with organs.. If an organ is damaged.. The Shikotsumyaku ain't gonna help you.
On a lot of other points.. I generally agree with Kage since even before CS2 Kimi had big holes and such in his skin and body that were getting repaired and this is still while he wasn't at 100%
-
When I was first reading this thread and I was like..."Wow, are people really going to claim healing abilities with Shikotsumyaku?"
Then I was watch the "Kabuto vs Itachi/Sasuke" fight and it got me thinking. If one can claim healing abilities with Shikotsumyaku, why did Kabuto had to integrate Karin's healing abilities then? Then it hit me, Kimimaro does not have healing abilities at all. What he has the ability to manipulate his skin in sense that he can open/close part of the skin, allowing his bones to come out.
For example...
- I create a bone sword from my arm. I need to open the skin to get it out. Once I do, I close the skin.
- If I receive an attack that does skin damage, I cannot repair the skin.
And something like this is proven if you watch Gaara vs Kimimaro. After Gaara uses Desert Burial, Kimimaro forced his way with patches of his skin removed. Skin does not regenerate and he stays in that form (with the removed skin) until he used Curse Seal Lvl 2, which by itself may have healing properties as one undergoes transformation.
Conclusion: Shikotsumyaku has no healing ability at all.
Kaguya's healing ability stems from her Yang Release, the same way how Naruto was able to heal others.
Apologizes if all this information was already said, did not read the whole thread.
-
I am sorry Mei but if Kimi does not have healing ability then when he pulls his spine out of his body he is dead. That's is a heck of a lot more than closing some hole in his skin. He has just ripped the main power supply out of his entire body. Unless he 'heals' that, he can't do anything.
His ability is to manipulate the growth and properties of his bones to his liking. He can regenerate his bones. And keep in mind, that he did that move in CS2 form.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dance_of_the_Clematis:_Vine
He cannot heal tissue, muscles, or organs. He probably cannot even heal broken bones. >.>
-
I am sorry Mei but if Kimi does not have healing ability then when he pulls his spine out of his body he is dead. That's is a heck of a lot more than closing some hole in his skin. He has just ripped the main power supply out of his entire body. Unless he 'heals' that, he can't do anything.
His ability is to manipulate the growth and properties of his bones to his liking. He can regenerate his bones. And keep in mind, that he did that move in CS2 form.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dance_of_the_Clematis:_Vine
He cannot heal tissue, muscles, or organs. He probably cannot even heal broken bones. >.>
What drug are you on? I want some.
-
I am sorry Mei but if Kimi does not have healing ability then when he pulls his spine out of his body he is dead. That's is a heck of a lot more than closing some hole in his skin. He has just ripped the main power supply out of his entire body. Unless he 'heals' that, he can't do anything.
His ability is to manipulate the growth and properties of his bones to his liking. He can regenerate his bones. And keep in mind, that he did that move in CS2 form.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dance_of_the_Clematis:_Vine
He cannot heal tissue, muscles, or organs. He probably cannot even heal broken bones. >.>
What drug are you on? I want some.
I'm saying that because regenerating is not especially healing. Like if a bone completely broke into two pieces.
Kimmario might get rid of one the pieces and transform the other bone as a whole piece. Do you follow?
But I'm not a fan of biology, so I don't know how bones work when you try to mend them.
-
If he can MAKE bone why couldn't he HEAL a bone? That would make no sense at all.
"(their osteoblasts and osteoclasts). By infusing their calcium with chakra, they could manipulate the growth and properties of their bones to their liking"
http://www.random42.com/bone-biology-osteoblasts-and-osteoclasts-animation
Point being regeneration is the same as healing.
-
If he can MAKE bone why couldn't he HEAL a bone? That would make no sense at all.
"(their osteoblasts and osteoclasts). By infusing their calcium with chakra, they could manipulate the growth and properties of their bones to their liking"
http://www.random42.com/bone-biology-osteoblasts-and-osteoclasts-animation
Point being regeneration is the same as healing.
Yeah, I just read that information somewhere else. So correction, he can heal his bones. =/
-
Thing is with the spine though Mei, basically the entire body's nerves are connected to it. If you just up and try yank it out even a little, you'd most likely turn yourself into a quadriplegic pretty much instantly. Unless of course, you had healing capabilities to reconnect the severed nerves once new vertebrae are grown in to replace the pulled out ones.
Only other way that could work without healing of that level, and even then a big if, is if the original spine itself isn't removed, but you rather just create a copy of it segment by segment.
-
In that link that Kage shared you can literally see the bone ripping through his flesh, with it later healing. Kabuto probably got Karin's cells because she has OP healing abilities or because Kishi said "Why not?".
-
Thing is with the spine though Mei, basically the entire body's nerves are connected to it. If you just up and try yank it out even a little, you'd most likely turn yourself into a quadriplegic pretty much instantly. Unless of course, you had healing capabilities to reconnect the severed nerves once new vertebrae are grown in to replace the pulled out ones.
Only other way that could work without healing of that level, and even then a big if, is if the original spine itself isn't removed, but you rather just create a copy of it segment by segment.
Okay but once again, he did that in CS 2. >.>
And we do not know how much research Kishi put in when you decided to bring this technique to the manga.
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/215/17
No healing of flesh there...
-
CS2, although it might have an initial healing/revitalizing effect due to the added flesh of the shapeshift, etc, it hasn't ever been shown to grant any particular healing abilities. It'd be rather contradictory to be honest, since using it actually erodes your body.
As for the linked bit, admittedly it didn't start instantly closing, no, but then again he also was nearly instantly caught in the sabaku soutaisou, so we never got to see if it would have or not. Imo it likely would have, if not as is then after the bone film under the skin was removed so it could connect proper with the muscles and stuff again.
As for Kabuto, that'd be most likely simply because Karin's healing is significantly more OP. What was the term for being cut in half from the waist again, bisected? Madara did that to Tsunade, yet Karin's hax heal bite put her back together scar-free.
-
CS2, although it might have an initial healing/revitalizing effect due to the added flesh of the shapeshift, etc, it hasn't ever been shown to grant any particular healing abilities. It'd be rather contradictory to be honest, since using it actually erodes your body.
As for the linked bit, admittedly it didn't start instantly closing, no, but then again he also was nearly instantly caught in the sabaku soutaisou, so we never got to see if it would have or not. Imo it likely would have, if not as is then after the bone film under the skin was removed so it could connect proper with the muscles and stuff again.
As for Kabuto, that'd be most likely simply because Karin's healing is significantly more OP. What was the term for being cut in half from the waist again, bisected? Madara did that to Tsunade, yet Karin's hax heal bite put her back together scar-free.
She might have had a scar that we didn't get to see. ^_^ Getting ran through with a sword nearly did Karin in, so I imagine it would vary in effectiveness. Not to mention Katsuya was already working on Tsunade when Karin and her lot showed up.
-
Keeping alive, not working on reconnecting. Also Karin later tanked a mokuton sashiki or what was the spiky branches thing again, right through the torso, and just shrugged it off by yanking em out and biting herself.
-
Keeping alive, not working on reconnecting. Also Karin later tanked a mokuton sashiki or what was the spiky branches thing again, right through the torso, and just shrugged it off by yanking em out and biting herself.
I'd love to know why she has to bite herself to heal herself. It makes no sense that she has to eat her own chakra to heal herself when it's already inside her.
-
Actually each panel of that page represents a passing of time, so for that whole page could represent seconds or maybe a minute depending how long it went by in the anime.
Shows how Kimi takes out a bone: http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/206/5
- see how the tissue separate themselves from the bone
- skin self-rips opens
Shows how the skin healed: http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/206/7
- skin closes up
If that doesn't show solid evidence that Kimi has no healing ability outside the usage of his skill, then I do not know what to say.
I even look through Naruto databooks and there’s no mentioning of healing abilities at all for Kimimaro or the Kaguya Clan.
I’m trying to understand what is this relationship between the removal of one’s spine and one’s life. I’m reading about the spinal cord and it is mostly relates to loss of body movement. In addition, it was mentioned that people of the Kaguya clan has different bone structure anyway. That may be why Kishi can get away with using this move in the manga.
So what is the relevance of this “spine” argument? o.o
I really want to know. Is there an article that states this?
-
I never said removing it without healing would kill you, just paralyze.
I also was the one who found it more likely than instead of just a passive over time healing, its a localized thing that using shikotsumyaku causes at that particular area, stimulates the cells into regenerating or something.
Also uhh, if you look again at the stuff you linked, its pretty clear its not just skin, muscles are ripped too. That's not to mention the muscles and ligaments et cetera connected to the bone, so if only skin healed, even if he replaced the removed bone that'd have if not paralyzed his arm for a long time then severely weakened it for days if not weeks till it can naturally heal.
-
I never said removing it without healing would kill you, just paralyze.
I also was the one who found it more likely than instead of just a passive over time healing, its a localized thing that using shikotsumyaku causes at that particular area, stimulates the cells into regenerating or something.
Also uhh, if you look again at the stuff you linked, its pretty clear its not just skin, muscles are ripped too. That's not to mention the muscles and ligaments et cetera connected to the bone, so if only skin healed, even if he replaced the removed bone that'd have if not paralyzed his arm for a long time then severely weakened it for days if not weeks till it can naturally heal.
Oh, okay. I must have misread the post then.
-
I never said removing it without healing would kill you, just paralyze.
Wut. Since when is removal of the spine and by extension complete severance of the spinal cord not lethal?
-
I never said removing it without healing would kill you, just paralyze.
Wut. Since when is removal of the spine and by extension complete severance of the spinal cord not lethal?
Ever since Kimmimaro pulled his out while in CS2? Come on man, keep up with the conversation. :P
Recall that a Kaguya has a different bone structure than that of ordinary shinobi. It's possible that they are built in such a way that such a thing would not be lethal. Maybe. In all seriousness, either he regrew the spine or simply used a new spine instead of completely taking out the original.
I project that part of the Yang release is the ability to pull out bones and subsequently recover from such actions. Since it governs vitality and such, they could probably heal themselves willingly, similar to how the Akimichi size transform and somehow don't become woozy from the change in dimensions.
-
Well they made it sound like just in general it was not.
-
Maybe everyone's just looking into it too much. Why can't we agree that Kaguya can recover extremely fast? Think about it with manga-logic. I'm sure it's completely possible for Kimi to make an entire extra skeleton if he really wanted to (and think about how spooky that would be). If he's able to make an entire bone forest erupt from his body, he's likely to run out of fuel quickly. That combined with plot disease likely caused his death in the series. I like to think that they have an extremely fast-paced healing ability which can also extend to their organs if need be. But the thing is, they can probably only heal so much because they've got to run out of nutrients to build those bones eventually. So Kaguyas probably have to eat as much as a manga main character usually does in order to keep from exhausting their body's natural stores. Or you could go with the 'It just works' idea that can apply to a lot of Naruto's funky abilities like the Sharingan.
-
What about his curse seal? It has nothing to do with his accelerated healing capabilities? I was under the assumption that most of his higher-tier techniques actually required it active, since senjutsu-enhanced techniques seem logical at this point... (Considering if we're speaking of ripping one's skeleton or entire backbone out and coincidentally Kimimarro had his Curse Seal LV 2 active for this.)
Curse Seal = Feeds off that user's chakra then in turn give them the seal's owner senjutsu chakras.
-
Thing is with the spine though Mei, basically the entire body's nerves are connected to it. If you just up and try yank it out even a little, you'd most likely turn yourself into a quadriplegic pretty much instantly. Unless of course, you had healing capabilities to reconnect the severed nerves once new vertebrae are grown in to replace the pulled out ones.
Only other way that could work without healing of that level, and even then a big if, is if the original spine itself isn't removed, but you rather just create a copy of it segment by segment.
Okay but once again, he did that in CS 2. >.>
And we do not know how much research Kishi put in when you decided to bring this technique to the manga.
http://www.mangahit.com/naruto/215/17
No healing of flesh there...
All this talk of Cursed Seal-influenced Shikotsumyaku use makes me wonder what a true master of Senjutsu with Shikotsumyaku can do. Pretty scary when you think about it. The main drawback of the Cursed Seal, is that you're sacrificing your own chakra for the sealer's Senjutsu Chakra, and in effect, your body becomes distorted to the point of looking like an inhuman creature. More animalistic to be precise. This is really close to the same appearance and effect for those who have not mastered the handling of Senjutsu Chakra.
Though to that extent of speculation, Kabuto is the only example that we can draw from. But you'll have to keep in mind that he had a plethora of abilities absorbed within him. The most outstanding abilities when it came to his body was Sage Mode durability, Uzumaki vitality and Shikotsumyaku.
Once again, genetics play a role in granting strong abilities.
-
Actually, there's very little CS only techniques, such as Sasuke's Hatabaku Chidori. Otherwise it just makes it plenty easier to perform them due to the overall power boost.
Trying Sawarabi no Mai in Kimmi's state without CS2 would prolly killed him instantly due to the disease.
-
All this talk of Cursed Seal-influenced Shikotsumyaku use makes me wonder what a true master of Senjutsu with Shikotsumyaku can do. Pretty scary when you think about it. The main drawback of the Cursed Seal, is that you're sacrificing your own chakra for the sealer's Senjutsu Chakra, and in effect, your body becomes distorted to the point of looking like an inhuman creature. More animalistic to be precise. This is really close to the same appearance and effect for those who have not mastered the handling of Senjutsu Chakra.
Though to that extent of speculation, Kabuto is the only example that we can draw from. But you'll have to keep in mind that he had a plethora of abilities absorbed within him. The most outstanding abilities when it came to his body was Sage Mode durability, Uzumaki vitality and Shikotsumyaku.
Once again, genetics play a role in granting strong abilities.
When was it ever stated that Cursed Seals gave you access to Sage chakra? I thought it just buffed up your chakra by giving you access to chakra that the owner stored within you because each curse seal had a little part of Oro sealed inside it too.
Just looked it up, and yeah, it seems to give you some of Oro's sage power. But it seems like it's more of a synthetic sage mode if anything. Because they seem to lack the chakra-absorbing ability of a sage like Naruto. I don't think it should be read literally, because they're obviously two different 'sage modes'.
-
Curse seal is closer to senninka than sage mode to be honest. If you do still want to compare it to mode though, core difference is that sage mode employs nature energy to bolster your physique, chakra and jutsus in general, is just beneficial overall (unless you mess up control and end up as a stone statue of course).
Whereas curse seal I believe eats your chakra to grant a relatively foul sort of senjutsu power in return, and though it can boost your physique even to the point of a fairly significant transformation, it also puts the body under such significant strain that overuse will simply kill you, provided you don't of course run out of chakra before that and die from it instead.
-
The whole point of the Cursed Seals was for Orochimaru to empower his closest followers and greatest potentials, as well as have an influence and leash on them. This is why the Sound Five were pretty loyal to Orochimaru.
But back to Shikotsumyaku. My whole point in my last post was to state that Kimimaro's healing ability from his clan's KG was further enhanced (by the Cursed Seal) to instantly heal/regrow his entire spinal cord. It's pretty obvious that the Cursed Seal provides some senjutsu-like enhancements. But a perfected Sage Mode user can definitely outclass them.
-
If I were to say that the Kaguya had any form of healing outside of their bone manipulation I would say it would require sage chakra. May that be through Curse seal, or sage mode.
Without enhancements, you have incredibly basic healing. When you pull a bone from your body, that wound would heal, and that's about it. Maybe some minor damage from Tools and what not but to keep things semi-Fair I would say no more than minor scraps and burns.
Now once you add Curse senjutsu to the mix you start getting a higher form of healing. Now you can survive pulling out your spine and producing a forest of bone (And I am pretty sure Kimmi used the bone forest without curse seal in the Kabuto fight, /but/ he may have been pooling off Kabuto or something. That whole interaction was just odd.)
Now, finally we add Sage mode chakra. I suggest this gives the healing power a run for it's money, Within reason of course. You are able to passively heal major wounds with the expenditure of large amounts of Senjutsu. I would say if you use the Kaguya healing power it would reduce your Sage mode by one turn, as to keep things fair for Healing power users.
Of course I am just throwing things out there, if you wish to ignore them, or use this as a foundation for any other rules, be my guest.
-
I could actually see that, senjutsu chakra adding to the healing factor. Kimi was fueling off of Kabuto's senjutsu chakra in the Kabuto fight
-
I would have to go with the idea that the curse seal enhancing preexisting Kaguya abilities and not granting new ones, since it's not a legit 'Sage mode' since you aren't truly mixing it with your spiritual and physical energy to create senjutsu, just more or less just getting enhanced with natural energy mixed with Oro's 'cursed' chakra. It was vague and maybe I'm not explaining it as I'm seeing it right.. But there is a difference between the two.
-
Sage transformation, while not equal to sage mode, is very similar in the power that it grants. An inability to perfectly balance natural energy, but still able to control it and balance it enough, cause the user to undergo bodily transformations (Jiraiya) which may or may not be useful in combat. Jiraiya displayed an increase in mobility while he was in his transformed state. The point is that senjutsu can cause bodily modifications.
Right on the wikia, it says that Orochimaru developed his curse seals based on Jugo's sage transformation enzyme (I.E, he developed his CS based on Jugo's KG). The source of Jugo's clan power was apparently the dragon mound cave or whatever it is called. What that would mean i that Orochimaru's curse seals are also indirectly related to the snake sages.
It is also mentioned that the seal takes away chakra in exchange for senjutsu; the seal itself likely absorbs the wearer's chakra and adds it to its "pool", gathering natural energy and then supplying the wearer with it. So the natural energy is acquired very similar to sage mode, but is granted to the wearer in a fashion similar (though inferior) to sage transformation. Taking all of this into account, the wearer is basically going through a limited amount of sage transformation.
Sage transformation full and sage mode full are very similar, much like sharingan genjutsu and ordinary genjutsu. A KG aides in the gathering of one, and causes mildly different effects due to the KG. Without the KG, Jugo's clan absorbing natural energy passively would turn them all into statues or films of skin or whatever.
When in sage transformation, Jugo can take the organs and chakra of others and add them to his own body in order to heal himself. Applying this idea to Kimmi, upon entering sage mode, Kimmi attained added resilience to survive removal of his spine and the subsequent healing that would have to take place. His Kaguya-ness is that a spine grew back without him having to snatch it from someone else, but potentially, his ability to survive doing so came from his limited sage transformation state.
-
I reeeeally do not think anybody besides Juugo can pull off the whole body mass manipulation. Maybe other senninka people, but definitely not CS2 people. Otherwise CS2 people wouldn't have a fixed transformation state, they could become anything they wished as long as they had the flesh for it.
TL;DR = rip out that spine as CS2, you have to regrow it, can't just stick one back in from someone else.
-
I don't think the Kaguya remove their original bones as much as they just sprout new ones off of the old ones, if you know what I mean? he doesn't really pull his spine out, more like pulling out a duplicate spine whip
-
I did suspect it about the spine. Drill and forest obviously are separately grown ones.
The sword is debatable. One one hand Kimmi's arm would have lost shape and slumped from removing the original, on the other he may have just regrown a replacement too quick for that to happen or on the same time as removing the old.
-
The sword is debatable. One one hand Kimmi's arm would have lost shape and slumped from removing the original
I swear that happened at some point in the manga.
-
I don't think his bones are ever removed from the skeletal structure, he just grows whatever attachments or bullets or spines that he needs from the old ones, you know what I mean?
-
Did happen, it limped for just a second before he turned his forearm into a porcupine.
-
I reeeeally do not think anybody besides Juugo can pull off the whole body mass manipulation. Maybe other senninka people, but definitely not CS2 people. Otherwise CS2 people wouldn't have a fixed transformation state, they could become anything they wished as long as they had the flesh for it.
TL;DR = rip out that spine as CS2, you have to regrow it, can't just stick one back in from someone else.
Make a custom technique for "borrowing" other people's body parts and I'm sure CS2 people could pull it off.