Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Rules/Foundation => Topic started by: Becquerel on February 24, 2017, 12:29:31 AM
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Alright, so I've been brainstorming about this for a little while seeing how much of a disaster the FFA was. It's been a thought in my head ever since I got here and saw the 'competitive' scene as well. I've tried a few times before to offer a way to fix it, but none of the ideas took off. Call me insane, but I want to try again. :)
This idea would be able to solve to arbitrary way we deal with Bijuu fights. For starters, we all know that the people involved have very powerful characters in order to deal with the 'meta' of this place. There's not much involved besides being the guy who writes the most on your character's wiki page of what they can do. Custom techniques make this even more difficult because people can create some very broken abilities when it comes to custom stuff. Also, look at something like competitive Pokemon. In those cases, the pokemon are usually at a set level with maxed whatever stats they could potentially have. So maybe giving everyone the same baseline stats could work too. So what I'm proposing is the ideas of dice rolls again, but in a much more simple way than I've previously tried implementing.
So the general consensus is that you get three actions per turn. My idea is that for every action, you would roll a die. (d20/d100/dwhatever is agreed on) These dice rolls would be made on a dice rolling website that kind of logs the dice rolls, that way it can't be abused. The next part is where I kind of am unsure about and have two potential ideas.
- The responding player writes up their post, then rolls the dice for each of their actions. Depending on what they get as a result, they either go back and edit their post to describe their successful execution or failure to dodge.
- The player rolls the dice while writing up their post, allowing them to adjust their post based on the dice rolls they got.
And I'm still not exactly sure on the numbers system that we can use. Basically, I was thinking if that you rolls within 3 above or below the opponent's number, it's basically a draw and would play out like it normally does (dodging, stalemate, etc). So this means that if I rolled a 10, a draw would be 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7.
If it's greater than three, but less than 7, then it would be a failure/success and the post would be made accordingly. So if I rolled a 10, their action would 'win' if they got 14, 15, 16 and 'lose' 6, 5, 4. A critical success/failure would be anything beyond that.
But to try and see if this is viable, I would be willing to have a mock bijuu battle with anyone. Only rules would be that we would have to use a non-main jonin or below canon character and can only utilize abilities that are from their moveset/canon and that you can have any bijuu you want but must utilize their canon abilities. Could I get some opinions on this idea? It should effectively get rid of the need to 'judge' bijuu fights.
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Being forced to take a loss when you're making better written posts and have an ability that would negate your opponent's move or whatever because you rolled a 1 and they rolled a 20 is kind of bull.
What's the incentive to be a better writer when it's just a dice roll?
There is none.
Substituting skill for luck is not a solution.
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Being a 'better writer' doesn't really matter in these cases. It almost always comes down to who can do the most funky or overpowered ability and the opponent's ability to 'counter' it. Right now, we don't have any system besides having a judge read the posts and decide which one they like more. And just like in real life, luck can be a major factor. For example, if you're having a shootout with someone and manage to win because their gun jammed, would you attribute that win to luck or skill? In fact, if you go based off luck you kind of allow yourself to break free from that perfect mold that you have in mind and adapt to the situation at hand.
Not only that, but right now you have to face the facts that only a very small handful of people are even interested in the Bijuu in the first place. It requires you to make an OP character in order to stand up to other OP characters, meaning that an average player will likely never have the opportunity or desire to pursue them in their current state. There are players who choose to break the mold by not creating MadaraClone0183 as their character, but would be laughed at if they tried to approach the 'competitive' scene. This is just my idea of how to fix the system. If you have a potential solution, I'd really appreciate it if you posted it as well :)
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So I kinda agree with you there Bec, if you need someone to test this with I'm up for it. Just a normal spar tho since I'm not a Bijuu holder. :?:
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So I kinda agree with you there Bec, if you need someone to test this with I'm up for it. Just a normal spar tho since I'm not a Bijuu holder. :?:
That's the thing though :) We would both pick a canon, non-main, jonin or below character and pick a random bijuu. Then we would have a bijuu battle as normal with those characters. (like Shino Aburame with 1 tails vs Choji with 3 tails)
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Oh duh yea I get you now. I'm game for that, do you have a dice rolling site or do I need to hunt one down?
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Depends, are you in a position to win and then their gun jams, effectively not being a factor? Or are you in a position to win but your gun jams and the other guys has a chance to basically stop digging their grave and kill you instead? In the first scenario, it doesn't matter. The outcome was already decided. In the second, you get absolutely screwed by an arbitrary system. I don't see anyone accepting that. I know I never would.
The solution in my mind has always been limits and enforcement. Why is the highest peak that only a single person ever managed to achieve the baseline for 'normal'? It's an absurd system that was created by a lack of rules and enforcement and it's, quite frankly, beyond saving without forcing every single person to give up nearly 95% of their power. No one's going to do that. This system is broken, but it's the one we're forced to deal with.
As far as fixing it, I've thought about it before, but I couldn't think of anything. Nothing that didn't seem like a sudden and hostile dictatorship that no one here would ever agree to because they're too afraid to give up their 20 page wikis of techniques and power ups. It's not even fun. I get that no one wants to not be the main character, but everyone can't be it either. If this place wasn't the last somewhat decent sized bastion of Naruto RP, I probably wouldn't still be here. But as long as it is, I'll be sticking around. Probably. Life and whatnot. I dunno where this last paragraph went to be honest.
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Ooooh, OOOOH!
How O'P' is Uematsu Tomi, tell me please :V
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I don't really know how "OP" Tomi is and I pray I never find out.
But Bec I found a site that is pretty good.
https://rolz.org/
It logs the rolls and can have multiple people in a single room at once so even a judge can watch and see the rolls.
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Depends, are you in a position to win and then their gun jams, effectively not being a factor? Or are you in a position to win but your gun jams and the other guys has a chance to basically stop digging their grave and kill you instead? In the first scenario, it doesn't matter. The outcome was already decided. In the second, you get absolutely screwed by an arbitrary system. I don't see anyone accepting that. I know I never would.
The solution in my mind has always been limits and enforcement. Why is the highest peak that only a single person ever managed to achieve the baseline for 'normal'? It's an absurd system that was created by a lack of rules and enforcement and it's, quite frankly, beyond saving without forcing every single person to give up nearly 95% of their power. No one's going to do that. This system is broken, but it's the one we're forced to deal with.
Things aren't always so absolute. I'll let you know, I gave that scenario because I've been in it ;) And if it wasn't for luck, I probably wouldn't be chatting with you right now. I wasn't digging my grave, but trying to keep someone else out of theirs when a haji popped around the corner. That's why I've always made sure to have a beretta back home lol
Oh duh yea I get you now. I'm game for that, do you have a dice rolling site or do I need to hunt one down?
Kayenta and I set up a room a while back and it can still be used
https://rolz.org/dr?room=Shinobi%20Legends
Now we'd just have to decide on what system you'd like to use (out of 1 or 2, or if you can think up an alternative), what character, and what Bijuu :)
Ooooh, OOOOH!
How O'P' is Uematsu Tomi, tell me please :V
I wouldn't know lol But to be fair, I think a lot of things are OP. I'm used to the whole realm of DnD-style stuff not the extravagant anime-level powers that we have here.
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Probably out of two and I'm just going to use Shino Aburame with the Five Tails. If that is okay with you Bec.
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Things aren't always so absolute. I'll let you know, I gave that scenario because I've been in it ;) And if it wasn't for luck, I probably wouldn't be chatting with you right now. I wasn't digging my grave, but trying to keep someone else out of theirs when a haji popped around the corner. That's why I've always made sure to have a beretta back home lol
That's not really a counter argument, but glad you're alive. I've also had guns drawn on me, but rather than Muslims, it's always been white people. It's fun being ambiguously light brown.
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It's not the Overpoweredness that is the worst thing about biju battles. It's the cut-throat (literally) biju fighter culture and some, partially behind the scenes, drama that "ruined" the FFA. Generally it's the overall stress of being a jinchurikii that has made the affair so undesirable to many.
Those sorts of things can't be fixed with the roll of dice, buuuuut, in cases of deadlock (IE, two lightning release users karate chop each other with unlimited powah) the dice would be a way to break the one thing that SL players normally have alot of; Luck. I won't agree to a system that makes all hits/misses luck of the roll. I'm not a gamblin' boogeyman, and even using dice in situations where there is "maybe" involved for a judge seems fairer than blanket dice roll to decide your fate.
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Probably out of two and I'm just going to use Shino Aburame with the Five Tails. If that is okay with you Bec.
Sounds good. I'll go with Asuma and the Three Tails :) And out of the two, what do you mean? I meant this section
1.The responding player writes up their post, then rolls the dice for each of their actions. Depending on what they get as a result, they either go back and edit their post to describe their successful execution or failure to dodge.
2.The player rolls the dice while writing up their post, allowing them to adjust their post based on the dice rolls they got.
That's not really a counter argument, but glad you're alive. I've also had guns drawn on me, but rather than Muslims, it's always been white people. It's fun being ambiguously light brown.
Thankfully you've been safe as well. But I'm just trying to state that luck does play a role in things. And I think it'd be better to have a system based off of luck than no system at all.
And maybe that can be the third option, Eric. I know it might be a bit extreme to go completely off of luck-based rolls, but I don't mind trying it. It's all OOC anyway, so a loss isn't that bad.
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Well where shall we test this out at Bec? Here on the forums or the chatroom of the dice site?
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But I'm just trying to state that luck does play a role in things. And I think it'd be better to have a system based off of luck than no system at all.
I would agree that it's better than nothing if it weren't for something like the Bijuu. I know they're basically trophies at this point, since everyone's baseline barely moves when you add them in, but they should still be seen as a powerful entity that only the strong are able to obtain, not someone who rolled a 19 when their opponent rolled a 5. This isn't something that should be decided by luck.
I will agree with Eric that it makes a decent option when two equal forces are going at each other, but that's it. You can roll for rock vs rock, but rolling on rock vs paper and letting rock win is foolish.
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Dice roll is a no go for reasons already stated. Too much luck for my taste.
While I personally wouldn't mind a chakra system in place....others would. Going on the system that I briefly went over and that later Vail went into detail about would force fighters to be more strategic in the fights rather than throwing 20 SSS rank jutsus at each other back and forth while moving at 200MPH. It's stupid.
While writing currently does play some part. (In less fights than more) I think a system with limitations would force people to be better.
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a system with limitations would force people to be better.
+9999999999999999999999999999
Look at NC/NR. We had limits. We had a system. Sure the characters probably look like babies holding butter knives compared to the characters here, but the quality of the RP was so much higher. It wasn't just throwing a million darts until one hit the victory board. You actually had to be a good writer to accomplish anything. Sure the kinds of cuts it'd take to get to that level and the amount of restructuring of, nearly everything to get to that level of a system would take time and I'm sure barely anyone would agree to it, but it'd be a proven way to make things more enjoyable.
I mean, unless just throwing a billion darts is your thing. You're boring and unimaginative, but you do you.
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...I mean, unless just throwing a billion darts is your thing. You're boring and unimaginative, but you do you.
Well, I could use a dart launcher, a semi-automatic dart thrower, I could hand throw that many darts over the course of several months, overhand underhand under the leg each time, I dunno, I think you can get pretty creative with how you throw a billion darts at a dart board. ^_^ Quantity has a quality all its own ya know.
... While writing currently does play some part. (In less fights than more) I think a system with limitations would force people to be better.
Would those limitations keep to the same meta though? The Senju and Uzumaki have these great chakras and life forces given to them just for breathing, Uchiha simliar boat with sharingan, what kind of limitaions would actually even out the type of character seen commonly? Because if the limitation system just makes those certain character types more concretely superior, I feel it would be better to keep up with the unlimited powah for everyone system.
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Would those limitations keep to the same meta though? The Senju and Uzumaki have these great chakras and life forces given to them just for breathing, Uchiha similar boat with sharingan, what kind of limitations would actually even out the type of character seen commonly? Because if the limitation system just makes those certain character types more concretely superior, I feel it would be better to keep up with the unlimited powah for everyone system.
That's where a system other than the chakra one that I mentioned comes into play. The bloodline limitation system where you pick this or that bloodline. This or that clan and so on.
So you could be an Uchiha/Uzumaki person, but not an Uchiha/Uzumaki/Kaguya/Senju person like you can do now.
Each bloodline has a power granted to them that is unique.
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Would those limitations keep to the same meta though? The Senju and Uzumaki have these great chakras and life forces given to them just for breathing, Uchiha similar boat with sharingan, what kind of limitations would actually even out the type of character seen commonly? Because if the limitation system just makes those certain character types more concretely superior, I feel it would be better to keep up with the unlimited powah for everyone system.
That's where a system other than the chakra one that I mentioned comes into play. The bloodline limitation system where you pick this or that bloodline. This or that clan and so on.
So you could be an Uchiha/Uzumaki person, but not an Uchiha/Uzumaki/Kaguya/Senju person like you can do now.
Each bloodline has a power granted to them that is unique.
The power-ups of the Uchiha-Senju are pretty up there to the point where sage mode is its most casual counter (Tensaigan less casual, but still around). Would even a system of "specilties" change that when bloodlines in the series were so good at everything under the sun?
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I personally would ban the preta path or Rinnegan all together were it not a normal thing now. Too damn convenient x.x It's fun to have in Rp, but at the same time the tug of war with it all gets stale pretty soon. Having people go at each other with Susano'o is much more entertaining I think.
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I don't see why everyone is so adverse against dice rolls. Hearthstone, for example, is a game that's heavily reliant on RNG as well as many Rouge-like/lite games that are out there. Regardless, Nekomaru and I will continue the mock bijuu fight that we have going on in order to see how it works.
Chinote - Having a system based around 'who is the better writer' isn't really a system because it falls under subjectivity. Basically, the reader determines the winner in that case based off of some feeling on what they like and what they don't like. Your system may have come from another game where people may limit their characters more, but in SL those kinds of things don't really exist. A character with more tricks to use will, 9 times out of 10, beat a character with less.
Shadow - The problem with a chakra system exists when you try to set guidelines. What determines how much chakra you have? What about people who claim 'I have more chakra than you no matter what'? A fix for this would be that everyone basically gets the same chakra amount so it's an even playing field, but people probably would not be happy with that knowing that it's not fair that 'my character is supposed to have way more chakra than yours'.
Timothy + Eric - The Meta is also a pretty bad thing here. You have to have Sharingan/Sage Mode/Rinnegan in order to win, or some variation of them. This in turn reduces creativity by basically having players follow the same system in order to be 'competitive'.
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I don't see why everyone is so adverse against dice rolls. Hearthstone, for example, is a game that's heavily reliant on RNG as well as many Rouge-like/lite games that are out there.
That's fine for things that intended to be that way. If the new Call of Duty that came out this year was suddenly a dice-roller where every combat interaction depended on your roll vs the enemy, do you think anyone would play it? You've just taken all the skill out of the game and made it entirely luck-based. That's not to say luck doesn't already exist in the game; being in the right place at the right time, your enemy hitting the wrong button, lag, etc, but taking the skill out and making it a dice game isn't the solution for CoD's down year last year, and it's not the solution for RP here.
Chinote - Having a system based around 'who is the better writer' isn't really a system because it falls under subjectivity. Basically, the reader determines the winner in that case based off of some feeling on what they like and what they don't like. Your system may have come from another game where people may limit their characters more, but in SL those kinds of things don't really exist. A character with more tricks to use will, 9 times out of 10, beat a character with less.
No, it doesn't. Because if you're a better writer than your opponent, it's not going to come down to a judge's decision. If you're a better writer, then you'll find a way to win. If you don't, then it should be obvious who controlled the fight. In a world where not everyone has to be Madara on crack to survive, it leaves the door open to more creativity. You're not going to have the same one, two or three cookie-cutter characters used by everyone and causing infinite stalemates. You're going to have a more diverse world where rather than rock vs rock every single battle, you'll get paper. You'll get scissors. You'll get lizard and Spock. Hell, you might even get a gun, a nut, and a squirrel. There will be obvious advantages and disadvantages in most fights. But even if you're a paper fighting scissors, you can win if you're better at writing. It's not impossible. It's not unheard of. It's not easy, but being a better writer, a better RPer, should always be the tilt. Not a lucky die.
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I actually really like the dice roll fights, but it just seems like that is another game entirely, it's not SL. The idea of losing a bijuu I had to fight for perhaps literal months for due to blind luck is actually stomach-turning.
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Comparing this to COD is not really an argument. That'd be like comparing Madden to Final Fantasy. Many RPG games, which SL can technically be counted as an RPG, use some sort of variable system. Though it's not exactly dice rolling, there's still some sort of RNG involved. To be fair, even COD uses RNG to an extent...The guns all have a kind of cone of fire based around your crosshairs and may not shoot exactly at where you point at. You still have those chances to miss. If there wasn't that variation, then the game would just need two guns. A fast one, and a moderate one with a scope. But I know that no matter what I argue, I won't change your mind because you're set in your ways.
And Athos, this system wouldn't be as simple as rock/paper/scissors. A hit wouldn't necessarily equate to a loss, because it still would require wtiting ability. Nekomaru and I are working on a test fight where we're trying different options in regards to the system, so please check it out as we progress and leave your opinions based on it. And this would basically reduce the length of fights as well. The FFA took about 2 months, but a good portion of the time was spent arguing over things and dealing with a judge. Having a system like this might help reduce the time wasted during Bijuu battles.
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Comparing this to COD is not really an argument. That'd be like comparing Madden to Final Fantasy. Many RPG games, which SL can technically be counted as an RPG, use some sort of variable system. Though it's not exactly dice rolling, there's still some sort of RNG involved. To be fair, even COD uses RNG to an extent...The guns all have a kind of cone of fire based around your crosshairs and may not shoot exactly at where you point at. You still have those chances to miss. If there wasn't that variation, then the game would just need two guns. A fast one, and a moderate one with a scope. But I know that no matter what I argue, I won't change your mind because you're set in your ways.
"Look, Luck/RNG based games work, just look at [RNG based game that is no way related to SL at all]!"
"Luck/RNG works for that game because that's the way it's made. If you take [Not Luck based game that is no way related to SL at all] and made it a Luck based game, people wouldn't like it. Sure, it has RNG elements, but you still need to have skill to do good. Just like SL."
"Hey now. You can't compare [Not Luck based game] to this. And even then, [Not Luck based game] has RNG elements, so you need to have good Luck to win, skill isn't a factor, you just gotta be lucky to win [Not Luck based game]!"
:?: :roll:
Yea, I'm done arguing this too. It's hard to type when one hand's facepalming this hard.
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I'm facepalming over the fact that a first-person shooter was used as a comparison to a text-based MMORPG. (FPS=/= RPGs) :oops:
I mean what is the sense of having a dice-roll function on the server, when you could use that same concept on here to make things a bit smoother in terms of zone fights? You do recall that this game is based off of the Legend of the Green Dragon, which happens to be a D&D-esque text-based roleplaying game, right?
Nowadays it doesn't depend on who is the better writer in zone fights, it'll come down to how much buffs your character stacks in that fight. More buff stacks = Better chance at winning. I hate to say it, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
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"Look, Luck/RNG based games work, just look at [RNG based game that is no way related to SL at all]!"
"Luck/RNG works for that game because that's the way it's made. If you take [Not Luck based game that is no way related to SL at all] and made it a Luck based game, people wouldn't like it. Sure, it has RNG elements, but you still need to have skill to do good. Just like SL."
"Hey now. You can't compare [Not Luck based game] to this. And even then, [Not Luck based game] has RNG elements, so you need to have good Luck to win, skill isn't a factor, you just gotta be lucky to win [Not Luck based game]!"
:?: :roll:
Yea, I'm done arguing this too. It's hard to type when one hand's facepalming this hard.
And there's what makes SL so great. Everyone everyone knows that SL is not based off of luck, skill, OR writing ability. It's all about who has the most points in the being a passive aggressive ass stat that determines who the real winners are here. Seriously though, there's no point in trying to change things. The bijuu system is, has, and always will be a massive mess of who can smell their own farts the hardest. Thankfully the whole system is OOC and doesn't matter anyway because everyone can just do whatever they want. Props for having hope and trying to fix things, but you're basically a guy trying to convince an Antifa crowd that Trump is good and that we need a wall. It's impossible and mud will be flung.
And Camel's right. Why you bring up Call of duty and then crucify him for using the point that you brought up, Chinote? >_>
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System wasn't always a mess. I remember when there wasn't a system. Fights for the beasts were fun and challenging without fighting over moves and people would take hits like champs.
Pride tends to blind people whether they like to admit it or not. But, it's an intangible item, not some certificate signed by Oliver with forest fight buffs.
Love, Asadi.
P.S.
Call of Duty: Recycled Warfare - coming to a store near you in 2017.
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Get the hell out of here, Asadi! Sense make brain hurt!
=3
Also, maybe a system that would make them take a hit is why they don't like change so much.
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All three of you are missing the point.
He said RNG works for a an RNG-based card game.
I said yes, RNG works for things that are made to be based on RNG. If things that aren't made to be based on RNG are suddenly based on RNG, it doesn't work. I'm not comparing Call of Duty to SL. I'm using it as an example of something not rooted in RNG that doesn't work when you make it rooted in RNG.
I acknowledged that, like RP, even Call of Duty had RNG elements. But those elements aren't what defines who wins or loses.
He's the one that then went 'no, you're wrong, CoD does have RNG.' Which I never said it didn't. The point isn't that SL is comparable to CoD. The point is that neither are built on Luck as the sole factor for determining who wins or loses, and changing that makes both of them entirely different things and would undoubtedly piss off both of their users.
I'm not crucifying him for bringing it up, I'm crucifying him for going, "Thing you brought up? No, you're wrong. [Lists the same exact points without arguing anything.]"
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I haven't played it since modern warfare 2, but if we shoot at each other at the same time and my gun has higher accuracy than yours, that means I win. But instead, your shot hit me while mine missed. That's RNG. But this is SL and you should feel bad for bringing fish into this topic in the first place <_<
And for the record, I don't care if this was RNG based or not. Either way, the fights are OOC so you don't lose anything if you lose anyway.
Also for the record DoomRL (DRL now) is a RPG based off of Doom and it's actually really good. Not a shill but just saying nonrpgs can be pulled off as a rpg.
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Gah. I hate repeating myself, but here we go:
I mean what is the sense of having a dice-roll function on the server, when you could use that same concept on here to make things a bit smoother in terms of zone fights? You do recall that this game is based off of the Legend of the Green Dragon, which happens to be a D&D-esque text-based roleplaying game, right?
Random possibility has always existed as a main element in a majority of RPGs. MMORPGs are no exception, because when I used to play zombie survival MMORPG. I experienced events that were based off that concept, one day I'll have a good day and salvage parts off of vehicles that would allow me to modify my weapons. Some days were bad and I would run into a hoard and have to board myself in a shelter for weeks on end until that herd of zombies either dispersed or I get killed by them and I would have to wait until another characters revives me.
Now like Teostra bluntly pointed out, this competitive scene has been reduced to a schoolyard fighting match. Adamant players that are faced with a possible lost will pull all of the stops to make sure that they come out on top, even if it means using loopholes to get their way. Now you tell me what is the fun in that?
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Gah. I hate repeating myself, but here we go:
Adamant players that are faced with a possible lost will pull all of the stops to make sure that they come out on top, even if it means using loopholes to get their way. Now you tell me what is the fun in that?
"I proved you wrong and won a fight against a stranger on the internet."
That really hurt to write...
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Teostra:
In the situation where you remove everything but RNG, yes, RNG will be the deciding factor. But yes, my fault for using an example of something that isn't solely based on luck to demonstrate how making it solely based on luck changes the game in a way that the majority likely isn't going to go with, but instead have everyone assume that I think RP should be like Call of Duty. I'll try not to use examples, I guess?
Camel:
I get what you're saying. But I wouldn't say that SL's RP scene is comparable to an MMORPG. It's not a coded set of RNG events. Your wins and loses aren't based solely on luck. The actual game of SL, LotGD, yes, it is an MMORPG which, while not relying solely on RNG, does rely on it, among other game elements. At this point, the RP and the game itself might as well not co-exist. Because besides most non-bijuu stuff taking place on the site, it really doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.
I think you're also missing another point I made. I've voiced both in this thread and in my collective 11 or how-ever-many years I've been here that I absolutely hate the state of RP here and that it isn't fun in almost any way. The only reason I even challenged for Kurama is because of Athos' confidence that he'd win and the promise of a decent fight against the last person I know from NR that's still RPing. Because despite our arguments, he's one of the few people here I know I can have a good time RPing with. Even if he fully embraces this mess of 'system.'
I am not advocating for the system to stay as it is. I'm saying changing to to a luck-based system is the wrong direction.
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So, the place I "come from" originally roleplay wise is Youtube (yeah, there was quite a lot of roleplay on youtube in the past when the layout was different). Among the circles I belonged to, there was a strong emphasis on writing ability, strategic thinking, and actual knowledge of whatever it is you're roleplaying in / as (for example: for Hand to Hand only fights, I employed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since that's what I have the most experience with IRL). These are the things that determined the winners in fights.
Yeah of course sometimes you had people who did the same crap people on SL did, but we typically just ignored them or declared them the loser, or left it to the public to determine who was right or wrong in the situation.
Now, I'm not here to sit on a high horse or anything, because I've taken part in the same kind of power playing that many other people on SL have because that seems to be the name of the game here.
However, many of the SL people I hang around now can attest to my recent attempts to fix not only biju battles (which I abhor), but the way fighting on SL is done in general. You can ask Jay, Athos, Tomi, Nekomaru, Ray, and many other people. I'm not an unreasonable guy. I have no qualms with admitting I'm wrong in a discussion or in a fight, which is even evidenced in my fight with Bocc (http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8955.15.html) for the 9-tails a while back.
I have a lot of abilities, yeah, but the way I've always fought is going into a battle with someone and sticking to a fairly small list of techniques and using those in different ways to get an upper hand on my opponent. Proper strategic works regardless of the "power level" of the person you're going against. You could be two regular humans or gods. The issue though, which has likely been pointed out by other people on this thread and many others, is that so many people aren't interested in flexing their intellectual / strategic muscles and having a good time. They just want to trash the other person, and are willing to use any underhanded tactic they can to do it.
Honestly, like some of the lines of argument I heard during the FFA were so downright fallacious that it actually made me angry. Implementing a system that forces people to cap their chakra or the number of kekkei genkei they have isn't going to fix the real problem of SL: many of the "upper tier" zoners are shameless, intellectually dishonest try-hards.
That has to change.
Why these people even compete for the Biju in the first place escapes me, since the boost in power that it'd give them won't really make a difference given how OP they already are. The tailed beasts should go to some of the newer or lower-tier people to encourage roleplaying, but the only problem is that the try-hards are going to come along and shit on those lower-tier people once they have them.
An analogy: you can't expect the populace to want to engage in politics when the vast majority of political power is held within the hands of a few oligarchs.
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System wasn't always a mess. I remember when there wasn't a system. Fights for the beasts were fun and challenging without fighting over moves and people would take hits like champs.
Pride tends to blind people whether they like to admit it or not. But, it's an intangible item, not some certificate signed by Oliver with forest fight buffs.
Love, Asadi.
P.S.
Call of Duty: Recycled Warfare - coming to a store near you in 2017.
People had respect for each other in ways that they just don't have now. There wasn't an emulation of void tactics, the series wasn't nearly as bloated and lopsided, and in-game progress actually meant alot more to a lot more than now, so many other factors contributed to that "preivous" system. Some of it we can change, some of it we can't, this thread is about focusing on what we can change.
And for the record, recycling is very economical. Good for the environment too. Just look at the Sonic series and how NOT recycling key elements hurt it in many places.
Anyways, my two cents is that fixing biju battles requires a re-think, not just on the mechanics of the battles themselves, but, on the worth of the biju as a whole. Why are they kept around? For the competition? For the companionship? For the Roleplay that the fights themselves have nothing to do with anymore? What's the point in the biju being around still, and why are they still being fought for?
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So, the place I "come from" originally roleplay wise is Youtube (yeah, there was quite a lot of roleplay on youtube in the past when the layout was different). Among the circles I belonged to, there was a strong emphasis on writing ability, strategic thinking, and actual knowledge of whatever it is you're roleplaying in / as (for example: for Hand to Hand only fights, I employed Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since that's what I have the most experience with IRL). These are the things that determined the winners in fights.
Yeah of course sometimes you had people who did the same crap people on SL did, but we typically just ignored them or declared them the loser, or left it to the public to determine who was right or wrong in the situation.
Now, I'm not here to sit on a high horse or anything, because I've taken part in the same kind of power playing that many other people on SL have because that seems to be the name of the game here.
However, many of the SL people I hang around now can attest to my recent attempts to fix not only biju battles (which I abhor), but the way fighting on SL is done in general. You can ask Jay, Athos, Tomi, Nekomaru, Ray, and many other people. I'm not an unreasonable guy. I have no qualms with admitting I'm wrong in a discussion or in a fight, which is even evidenced in my fight with Bocc (http://forum.shinobilegends.com/index.php/topic,8955.15.html) for the 9-tails a while back.
I have a lot of abilities, yeah, but the way I've always fought is going into a battle with someone and sticking to a fairly small list of techniques and using those in different ways to get an upper hand on my opponent. Proper strategic works regardless of the "power level" of the person you're going against. You could be two regular humans or gods. The issue though, which has likely been pointed out by other people on this thread and many others, is that so many people aren't interested in flexing their intellectual / strategic muscles and having a good time. They just want to trash the other person, and are willing to use any underhanded tactic they can to do it.
Honestly, like some of the lines of argument I heard during the FFA were so downright fallacious that it actually made me angry. Implementing a system that forces people to cap their chakra or the number of kekkei genkei they have isn't going to fix the real problem of SL: many of the "upper tier" zoners are shameless, intellectually dishonest try-hards.
That has to change.
Why these people even compete for the Biju in the first place escapes me, since the boost in power that it'd give them won't really make a difference given how OP they already are. The tailed beasts should go to some of the newer or lower-tier people to encourage roleplaying, but the only problem is that the try-hards are going to come along and shit on those lower-tier people once they have them.
An analogy: you can't expect the populace to want to engage in politics when the vast majority of political power is held within the hands of a few oligarchs.
He does indeed try to be fair but can come off as a bit accusing if/when he misreads stuff but ultimately is quick to accept things when you clarify it, however. Tobias is overall fair to my experience. Just don't try to argue anything physics related against him unless you're personally studying it in college xD
The thing that gets me thus far is how players often seem to aim for that super speedy, faster than you can detect virtual auto hit. The irony being my character is the alleged naturally fastest ninja around. I've been reading up on various competitive fights and it seems to be a common theme.
It truly sucks the fun out of it for me.
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I am not advocating for the system to stay as it is. I'm saying changing to to a luck-based system is the wrong direction.
I'll ask you another question. What is the best direction to go with? I mean, the ship is already sinking and the ones that stay behind are the ones that are adamant about changing the system, when it will impact the buff or passive ability that they earned.
The competitive roleplaying on here is basically a nuclear power plant in full meltdown and if nothing is done, the site itself will fall into obscurity just like LoB did. At least you have to admit that this broken system favors much of the upper echelon of Shinobi Legends, rather than the new players that try in vain to reach their goals.
I don't see why the adamant players about change, won't give Becquerel a chance to test out his methods. Because like Timothy said and I'll agree with him, the fun is getting sucked out of this game. And who do we blame when the inevitable occurs?
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I'm game for some RNG. Test it as Bec is currently doing, refine it, and so forth until we get to a point the majority can agree to such.
Personally, I'd imagine RNG would come into play when say the competitors both want to argue their speed will out do the other. Roll the dice, flip the coin or whatever, then continue from there. Which 'instant' attack will overcome what.
When it comes to the RNG of my example however, we should have a tie event where say the two events cancel each other out in a spark of glory instead of just arguing whose is more powerful than another/flipping the coin.
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I also wanted to say that if anyone else wants to do a test fight with me, I don't mind at all :) I can do more than one at the same time. Plus, having multiple people fighting would allow for variation.
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I'll ask you another question. What is the best direction to go with?
Gah. I hate repeating myself, but here we go:
The solution in my mind has always been limits and enforcement.
We made it work for 8 years on NC/NR. Yea, we didn't have as many people as SL did at the time, but I'd say the current RP base is about the size of what we had, assuming there's maybe 2-3 people not on the forum for each person active on it. Maybe that's not a good guess. But our system is proven. But, like I said, short of doing what Ryan and Tai did at one point and forcing everyone to start over with new characters (which I was against at the time, but it ultimately ended up rejuvenating the scene), I don't see the Haves willing to part with their abominations and join the Have-Nots as equals.
The competitive roleplaying on here is basically a nuclear power plant in full meltdown and if nothing is done, the site itself will fall into obscurity just like LoB did. At least you have to admit that this broken system favors much of the upper echelon of Shinobi Legends, rather than the new players that try in vain to reach their goals.
I'm not disagreeing with you there.
I don't see why the adamant players about change, won't give Becquerel a chance to test out his methods. Because like Timothy said and I'll agree with him, the fun is getting sucked out of this game. And who do we blame when the inevitable occurs?
No one's stopping him from doing his test thing that he's already doing. No one is saying you can't design a system that makes dice rolls work functionally. It's turning something that should be about how you can utilize your abilities, strategize and write into a game of luck. It's not solving the problem that everyone is Madara's wet dream. It's ignoring it and trying to make a system that makes it even more acceptable to shove as much into a character as you can.
Because who cares if you have 1031231231411231231 KGs, Doujutsus and Hidden Techniques? All that matters is if you get lucky dice rolls.