Shinobi Legends Forum
Roleplay => All That Is Bijuu => Rules/Foundation => Topic started by: UettoSenju on December 06, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
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So this is to say that the IC Hunt type system does proceed to pass what methods should be allowed and which shall be frowned upon is open to discussion.
We have a vote going on I believe on different sensory methods to be used and what not. But no true discussion on methods to track down host. Whether this be intel gathering, sensory based, and/or some other method.
Simply what should and shouldn't be allowed? And if allowed by what means should it be?
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Please explain to me how intel gathering would work in SL without raising suspicions and possibly put oneself into a worst-case scenario (you vs the village). Now even the SL kages would know IC the identity of another village's Jink.
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Please explain to me how intel gathering would work in SL without raising suspicions and possibly put oneself into a worst-case scenario (you vs the village). Now even the SL kages would know IC the identity of another village's Jink.
I don't get why people frown on the whole you vs the village ordeal. I mean you are going after one of their own. Naturally they would all protect their comrade. It should be expected in my thoughts. If I was gonna hunt one I'd expect to have to fight way more than just the host. Unless I just got lucky and found them alone and made it quick.
It isn't that hard to find the host. Attack a village start killing people left and right until they present themselves. Force them out in other words.
Have a group attack the village then a scout watch from safe distance. That person searching for the beast chakra. The goal would be to force the host into battle and hope they'd us the beast chakra in some fashion. Then turn all focus to that person.
It isn't hard to do. Really.
Kidnap someone from the village and hold them ransom demanding a nesting with the host. He/she come alone.
The options are endless. People just get so hung up on the sense them and have a 1vs1 fight. In my thoughts it isn't a simple as that. If I were to go after a beasted I'd form a team to do it with not solo.
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Please explain to me how intel gathering would work in SL without raising suspicions and possibly put oneself into a worst-case scenario (you vs the village). Now even the SL kages would know IC the identity of another village's Jink.
I don't get why people frown on the whole you vs the village ordeal. I mean you are going after one of their own. Naturally they would all protect their comrade. It should be expected in my thoughts. If I was gonna hunt one I'd expect to have to fight way more than just the host. Unless I just got lucky and found them alone and made it quick.
It isn't that hard to find the host. Attack a village start killing people left and right until they present themselves. Force them out in other words.
Have a group attack the village then a scout watch from safe distance. That person searching for the beast chakra. The goal would be to force the host into battle and hope they'd us the beast chakra in some fashion. Then turn all focus to that person.
It isn't hard to do. Really.
Kidnap someone from the village and hold them ransom demanding a nesting with the host. He/she come alone.
The options are endless. People just get so hung up on the sense them and have a 1vs1 fight. In my thoughts it isn't a simple as that. If I were to go after a beasted I'd form a team to do it with not solo.
The stigma against village battles is that they have, in the past, been incredibly troublesome to conduct. Last major village attack I was a big part of had been Iwagakure, and we had been trying to mildly defend ourselves from rebel scum (SW reference). And I couldn't even be present for most of that. :(
Besides, if you have the entire village gunning after you, then you have defenders who do not follow the biju rules trying to defend the host. Operators on both sides going outside of the rules is a huge potential issue with IC matches, which is why I proposed that all attackers/defenders also be considered challengers/champions and be forced to be under the rules IF they decide to defend the beast or help go after it.
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Less complications please. Basic RP rules apply.
Everyone who would join in could not metagame, or god mod, or character control or auto hit.
Kirk makes some very valid notions that people could legitimately try to use.
There is the knock at the door approach. "I am here to kick butt till you bijuu chickens come out and play. Oh you don't have any bijuu? Well I am here to kick someone's behind for not having any bijuu."
Why you are there to kick behind IC if it flushed a host out...well cool. If not, then hrm...try something else. Who says you HAVE to know and prove you know a bijuu is in that village? Sure, it lacks finesse and will take a lot of time. Showing up at a village that actually has one on your first try is justifiable too. 'Well that is where most of the bijuu I have heard about in RP came from. And I have not run into those bijuu anywhere lately so maybe they are still hiding in the same old place?' If I am hunting bijuu, I'm not going to choose Suna first cause they hardly ever have one. I think that would be something fairly well known among the people who hunt bijuu.
no metagaming there at all. I mean seriously.
But everyone in the world having to come to the forum and make an account and register for the event and so on and so forth? No, that is just unnecessary red tape. its an rp, not a house loan.
I could see bribing someone to squeal on another. Or deceiving them to the point they confide.
It would be cool to have an rp place where disreputable people gather and trade info. A seedy ramen shop? The gaming room in the gardens? The whole gossip route to learning about a host has been omitted.
Kidnap someone and torture them to death. Or right in front of the gates of the village. Make a demand or just do it for kicks to provoke rage. Find someone who is know to traffic in bijuu and squeeze them for info. Trade someone important for a chance to face the host.
And who can sense bijuu most of the time? That demon child Nayeli...
oh no...I forgot...it was god mod for a demon to speak to another demon or even be able to sense they are near. or was that character control to say she could not?
Well her mother sure can. And talk about a weak opponent to have to face. Oh yes she has some tricks up her sleeve, but I seriously can't believe no one has come after me in order to obtain legit info on hosts.
There basically is not one she has not helped to seal or seen in battle or felt their chakra.
No, i don't want to be targeted for the purpose of Bijuu hunting, but yes...it is just that easy.
now...what jutsu are legit to use for bijuu hunting? and under what circumstances. I know several require a bit of information before they even become useful for such a specific identification.
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Less complications please. Basic RP rules apply.
Everyone who would join in could not metagame, or god mod, or character control or auto hit...
Oh yus? What is metagaming for a crowd of RPers who all follow different specifics on what each of those are? More importantly, what if the original challenger fails, but one of the other attackers in the RP succeeds? They would have attained the biju outside of the biju rules and would consider themseslves legitimately. Having the Council make it clear that he/she cannot keep the beast without accepting the rules would be a necessary measure. And if said person does not accept the rules, then they get stripped or otherwise hand the beast off outside of the biju rules.
This is not a house loan, but it is a matter of security clearance. If you are hunting or helping to hunt for the biju, since the entire party has the possibility of getting the beast, the entire party should be considered challengers. Similar with defenders, in that they may end up rescuing the biju from an attacker or being chosen to take control of the beast mid-battle (in the case of summon situation).
Basic RP rules means squat when nobody can agree on a concrete explanation what the basic RP rules are without leaving ambiguous what some of the terms are. I proposed at one point that one be made specifically for biju hunts so that we don't have a bunch of ambiguity running around.
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I have to get ready for night shift.
however, at a glance eric...concerning what if someone else attacks and take the bijuu?
Well it is an IC hunt. Shit happens. there is no challenger list?
nit picking what metagaming is to me and to you and to some joe smoe that might have even another way of defining metagamin is kind of bogging me down.
its knowing stuff out of character that your character doesn't and using it in rp.
Kay doesn't know Neala kicked your butt. So I never mention that when I RP her.
see?
pretty simple.
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I have to get ready for night shift.
however, at a glance eric...concerning what if someone else attacks and take the bijuu?
Well it is an IC hunt. Shit happens. there is no challenger list?
nit picking what metagaming is to me and to you and to some joe smoe that might have even another way of defining metagamin is kind of bogging me down.
its knowing stuff out of character that your character doesn't and using it in rp.
Kay doesn't know Neala kicked your butt. So I never mention that when I RP her.
see?
pretty simple.
That's a start. Now we need to define god-modding.
If "shit happens" and whoever gets the biju doesn't accept the biju rules, then they get stripped by the Council. And then what? If the Council gives it back to the village then it would have made the entire attack pointless, even if the attackers for all intents and purposes won.
It is boggy ground, but there might be gators underneath every log. There should be very clear outlines for zone fighting at the biju hunting level.
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Please explain to me how intel gathering would work in SL without raising suspicions and possibly put oneself into a worst-case scenario (you vs the village). Now even the SL kages would know IC the identity of another village's Jink.
I don't get why people frown on the whole you vs the village ordeal. I mean you are going after one of their own. Naturally they would all protect their comrade. It should be expected in my thoughts. If I was gonna hunt one I'd expect to have to fight way more than just the host. Unless I just got lucky and found them alone and made it quick.
It isn't that hard to find the host. Attack a village start killing people left and right until they present themselves. Force them out in other words.
Have a group attack the village then a scout watch from safe distance. That person searching for the beast chakra. The goal would be to force the host into battle and hope they'd us the beast chakra in some fashion. Then turn all focus to that person.
It isn't hard to do. Really.
Kidnap someone from the village and hold them ransom demanding a nesting with the host. He/she come alone.
The options are endless. People just get so hung up on the sense them and have a 1vs1 fight. In my thoughts it isn't a simple as that. If I were to go after a beasted I'd form a team to do it with not solo.
The stigma against village battles is that they have, in the past, been incredibly troublesome to conduct. Last major village attack I was a big part of had been Iwagakure, and we had been trying to mildly defend ourselves from rebel scum (SW reference). And I couldn't even be present for most of that. :(
Besides, if you have the entire village gunning after you, then you have defenders who do not follow the biju rules trying to defend the host. Operators on both sides going outside of the rules is a huge potential issue with IC matches, which is why I proposed that all attackers/defenders also be considered challengers/champions and be forced to be under the rules IF they decide to defend the beast or help go after it.
This is the main reason I am pointing these things out. I want to make aware of the loopholes that may fall into the rules and systems. Clearly we can not prevent people from doing these things as they can rp how they wish. It would be silly to void them cause they want to attack a village for a beast. I mean that is really how the shinobi world would be in my mind not lets run out into a field and do a 1vs1 match.
These type of things will arise which brings me to wonder once more can an IC system truly exist without flaws, loopholes, or gaps in the fabric of the system?
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I could see bribing someone to squeal on another. Or deceiving them to the point they confide.
It would be cool to have an rp place where disreputable people gather and trade info. A seedy ramen shop? The gaming room in the gardens? The whole gossip route to learning about a host has been omitted.
Kidnap someone and torture them to death. Or right in front of the gates of the village. Make a demand or just do it for kicks to provoke rage. Find someone who is know to traffic in bijuu and squeeze them for info. Trade someone important for a chance to face the host.
And who can sense bijuu most of the time? That demon child Nayeli...
oh no...I forgot...it was god mod for a demon to speak to another demon or even be able to sense they are near. or was that character control to say she could not?
Well her mother sure can. And talk about a weak opponent to have to face. Oh yes she has some tricks up her sleeve, but I seriously can't believe no one has come after me in order to obtain legit info on hosts.
There basically is not one she has not helped to seal or seen in battle or felt their chakra.
No, i don't want to be targeted for the purpose of Bijuu hunting, but yes...it is just that easy.
now...what jutsu are legit to use for bijuu hunting? and under what circumstances. I know several require a bit of information before they even become useful for such a specific identification.
A. Group vs Village
No guarantee the Jink will come out and if so, no guarantee s/he will use bijuu chakra/power.
B. Kidnapping
No guarantee the village will comply.
Plus, you would need to know who is even considered 'important'.
C. Bribing someone
No guarantee the person will tell the truth.
D. Deceiving to the point they confide
No guarantee the person even knows. Plus, that would take too long.
Yeah, there are endless options but none of them are guarantees.
You'll just end making yourself an enemy of the village to the point that they may send an assassin after you. Or worse, see this as an act of war and you unintentionally caused two villages to go at it.
It's obvious knowledge that the Kage would know who the Jink is but that person is not an easy target. You know a few high-ranking members would know but you don't know who they are. And say you do, they will most likely not go down easily/quickly unless you have a group and the person is outside the village. You could attack inside but you would attract attention.
Take Akatsuki for example.
Only person who did 'group vs village' was Pein and that was because he has the manpower to do that. In SL, there's more people who have Rinnegan or Sage Mode.
Itachi and Kisame avoided long battles.
I would like to have a NPC information broker to just give me that the identity of the Jink. Trade in an RP for information. The info broker would give you an assignment/mission in which you have to do for him, once completed, he would give you the identity of the Jink. You're welcome to bring other people to do the RP with you. At least this way actually promotes RP.
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... Clearly we can not prevent people from doing these things as they can rp how they wish. It would be silly to void them cause they want to attack a village for a beast...
No, no it wouldn't be silly. There are rules governing how to hunt the biju. That should apply to ALL hunters and ALL defenders. If the biju are under a set of rules and the hosts cannot deviate, then neither can anyone trying to attack them explicitly for the beast nor anyone trying to defend the beast. At best an exception can be made for those just trying to defend the village, but then all the defenders would cite "I'm trying to defend my village".
You can close alot of loopholes if you make all parties involved bound to the biju rules. Or bound to not getting involved period.
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I could see bribing someone to squeal on another. Or deceiving them to the point they confide.
It would be cool to have an rp place where disreputable people gather and trade info. A seedy ramen shop? The gaming room in the gardens? The whole gossip route to learning about a host has been omitted.
Kidnap someone and torture them to death. Or right in front of the gates of the village. Make a demand or just do it for kicks to provoke rage. Find someone who is know to traffic in bijuu and squeeze them for info. Trade someone important for a chance to face the host.
And who can sense bijuu most of the time? That demon child Nayeli...
oh no...I forgot...it was god mod for a demon to speak to another demon or even be able to sense they are near. or was that character control to say she could not?
Well her mother sure can. And talk about a weak opponent to have to face. Oh yes she has some tricks up her sleeve, but I seriously can't believe no one has come after me in order to obtain legit info on hosts.
There basically is not one she has not helped to seal or seen in battle or felt their chakra.
No, i don't want to be targeted for the purpose of Bijuu hunting, but yes...it is just that easy.
now...what jutsu are legit to use for bijuu hunting? and under what circumstances. I know several require a bit of information before they even become useful for such a specific identification.
A. Group vs Village
No guarantee the Jink will come out and if so, no guarantee s/he will use bijuu chakra/power.
B. Kidnapping
No guarantee the village will comply.
Plus, you would need to know who is even considered 'important'.
C. Bribing someone
No guarantee the person will tell the truth.
D. Deceiving to the point they confide
No guarantee the person even knows. Plus, that would take too long.
Yeah, there are endless options but none of them are guarantees.
You'll just end making yourself an enemy of the village to the point that they may send an assassin after you. Or worse, see this as an act of war and you unintentionally caused two villages to go at it.
It's obvious knowledge that the Kage would know who the Jink is but that person is not an easy target. You know a few high-ranking members would know but you don't know who they are. And say you do, they will most likely not go down easily/quickly unless you have a group and the person is outside the village. You could attack inside but you would attract attention.
Take Akatsuki for example.
Only person who did 'group vs village' was Pein and that was because he has the manpower to do that. In SL, there's more people who have Rinnegan or Sage Mode.
Itachi and Kisame avoided long battles.
I would like to have a NPC information broker to just give me that the identity of the Jink. Trade in an RP for information. The info broker would give you an assignment/mission in which you have to do for him, once completed, he would give you the identity of the Jink. You're welcome to bring other people to do the RP with you. At least this way actually promotes RP.
So what if its not easy or guaranties you get action with the host? It shouldn't in my opinion. This brings it closer to operating how it truly would if this was all real.
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So what if its not easy or guaranties you get action with the host? It shouldn't in my opinion. This brings it closer to operating how it truly would if this was all real.
If there is an OOC option and an IC option, people will rush to the IC option so that they can weed people out with ridiculous RP hunts. History repeats more often than not.
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So what if its not easy or guaranties you get action with the host? It shouldn't in my opinion. This brings it closer to operating how it truly would if this was all real.
If this was real (as if SL is ever true the Naruto norms), I would ask a NPC villager who's the Jink and that villager would happily and truthfully answer me. You know why? Because if this was real, the villagers would have animosity towards their Jinks.
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So what if its not easy or guaranties you get action with the host? It shouldn't in my opinion. This brings it closer to operating how it truly would if this was all real.
Yeah can we not continue doing exactly what the problem was, please ?
If there is an OOC option and an IC option, people will rush to the IC option so that they can weed people out with ridiculous RP hunts. History repeats more often than not.
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So what if its not easy or guaranties you get action with the host? It shouldn't in my opinion. This brings it closer to operating how it truly would if this was all real.
Yeah can we not continue doing exactly what the problem was, please ?
If there is an OOC option and an IC option, people will rush to the IC option so that they can weed people out with ridiculous RP hunts. History repeats more often than not.
That is just it. If the host doesn't know who is after them and at what time or where they will be coming from how can they make these over the top procedures to follow in order to get to them?
The whole flaw in the IC hunt system is that in order to go after the host you have to inform them about it through a challenge list. You are telling them you are coming... even if it is OOC. We will prepare for things we know are gonna harm our characters. Meta-gaming is sometimes done without even noticing.
The two rules that need be applied be this. The host must be active rp wise. The host must not hide or take refuge in a place where he can not be reached.
The way I see it host can stay inside their villages all day every day. It makes sense to. So what? Infiltrate and think of a way to get them. Start using those brains some to solve problems instead of just fight fight fight.
Plus a challenger list must be followed as issued right? That breaks IC reasoning. There's nothing stopping someone who is not even on the list going and kill the host rp wise before a challenger even reaches them. I mean are you really gonna say a rule should be made that states 'host can not be killed rp wise unless done so by the hands of the current challenger'?
So what if its not easy or guaranties you get action with the host? It shouldn't in my opinion. This brings it closer to operating how it truly would if this was all real.
If this was real (as if SL is ever true the Naruto norms), I would ask a NPC villager who's the Jink and that villager would happily and truthfully answer me. You know why? Because if this was real, the villagers would have animosity towards their Jinks.
I did not mean real to the Narutoverse. I meant is the SLverse was a real verse itself. It would make sense then.
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These are some interesting points.
Real to the Narutoverse though? I didn't see anyone in Kumo hating on Bee or wanting to turn him over to Akatsuki. Seemed like they valued their hosts. It is quite plausible that the reaction of characters will be individualized, that anything is likely to happen. To point at any of them as suggest they are all going to act like such and such is a bit confining and all.
Anyway...As to some rouge coming in the hunt, snatching up the beast, and then not complying with these bijuu rules, council strips and the fight is now pointless?
Well again, shit happens. The people who would have complied with the rules not being able to best a rogue hunter...is sooooooooooo sad. I am like crying over here that they were not the best at the job and didn't get the beast. How unfair. We should really make a rule that makes sure they win in the end. >.>
This is how you handle it...oh gee...its a rogue ninja!!!! *pms*...hello fellow Shinobi...just a heads up, if you win the beast then you will be subject to bijuu rules...*sends link* here they are. Have a nice day. Sorry if that is a problem but the bijuu are the one RP situation on SL that just simply had to be regulated due to our history and all. I hope that is agreeable to you. If not, your participation will have to be voided.
Terms of participation agreements are non-negotiable. At this point in the situation, that is part of enforcing the rules, in my opinion.
I think it would be really cool if there were no OOC challenges and everyone just went the IC route. Then all this about the host knowing a hunter is coming for them would just be part of the game. You go out and take your chances like everyone else. Your village supports you? cool. you must not be a total butt head to them. They turn you over...ha ha ha ha. I love it!
But, not everyone is into the whole chance issue. So we have OOC challenges being an option.
Should a host have to accept an OOC challenge? nnnn, that is a tough one. Should a kage have to accept a challenge and the village potentially be lead by someone else? Should a wife have to put up with competition for the affections of her husband? The last two situations are RP based while the first is not. Not every RP situation will be my fantasy dream, and potentially quite painful, but such is RP life. Can I get a ruling on making sure my spouse conforms more to my whims?
snort...
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... Can I get a ruling on making sure my spouse conforms more to my whims?
snort...
Well, you could. It's possible. Maybe more work than you would want to put into it, might ruin the balance of the relationship but it's possible.
Real to the Narutoverse though? I didn't see anyone in Kumo hating on Bee or wanting to turn him over to Akatsuki.
Until B got real close to the A and the two proved themsleves in the 3rd Great War, Bee wasn't exactly Mr. Popular in Kumogakure because the village had a history of being attacked by the beast itself.
In SL, the last time a village was attacked by a rogue beast, genuinely, was too long ago or out of my sight for me to recall. No SL RPer is going to turn in their own host unless it's very, very personal or he/she is character controlled into it. That makes it near impossible to get an insider turnover without using alts or very time-consuming spywork.
Should a wife have to put up with competition for the affections of her husband?
In certain cultures, certainly.
That is just it. If the host doesn't know who is after them and at what time or where they will be coming from how can they make these over the top procedures to follow in order to get to them?
Simple, you make a catch-all. Plus, except for a few surprises, I think we all by now are famaliar with the most avid biju hunters on site. If you can keep them off your neck the rest are manageable.
And why does everyone keep forgetting my proposition of allowing challenges to be declared right before the interaction? :/ Like, that right there by itself makes the challenge less of an announcement and more of a "officially, I'm challenging you with this and this many people, but we're already interacting so ball is in your court".